Positive Dissociation?

Interesting this thread came to the front of the line just when I was pondering a time I used dissociation to deal with a traumatic situation. Was it positive or not I don’t know.

When I was 11-12 years old I was typing back and forth with this girl on the computer (instant messaging) to make a story less long…The conversation turned intimate…after some time (other conversations) my mother called me into the computer room and sat me down right inbetween my father and her and forced me to read back the private intimate conversations. During this time I couldn’t believe this was life and that this was happening in my life in the moment what was probably 5-10 min I disassociated and went somewhere else. My legs were shaking and I believe something in me was buried down into my lower body (maybe a center) I was reading the words but I wasn’t present for all of them….fast forward to 16-17 years later as I was reading the book “When the body says no!” The memory of that event popped back into my head for the first time since it happened almost two decades ago. Ahhhh that’s why I was nervous around women my whole life and my legs would shake I said to myself…

Was this positive disassociation? I am not sure…but it was disassociation something happened in that moment that caused me to forget that event during after and long after it happened only to leave the shaky legs in social situations as a clue what type of wicked internal Alchemy is disassociation? …how do you heal trauma you don’t remember? Auyaska? Well that’s a different topic…
 
Menna said:
Was this positive disassociation? I am not sure…but it was disassociation something happened in that moment that caused me to forget that event during after and long after it happened only to leave the shaky legs in social situations as a clue what type of wicked internal Alchemy is disassociation?
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Hi Menna,

First, I'm sorry that your parents did that to you!

In terms of this reaction of yours being positive dissociation, my understanding is that this type of dissociation you experienced was a defense mechanism to survive the experience and overwhelming feelings of the experience in the moment. So in a sense the dissociation you experienced was positive in terms of you being able to get through the experience, but also negative in that it shoved and buried the emotions and trauma down, since in the moment there was likely no positive way to work things out emotionally in the presence of your parents, which has caused you to have some unidentified issue with the unremembered, until now, event - "that’s why I was nervous around women my whole life and my legs would shake I said to myself…".

Also, I think positive dissociation is more along the lines of forgetting yourself in something or some activity that has positive aspects to it. Such positive dissociation activities might be things like doing guided meditation, EE, reading the romance novels mentioned on the forum, and possibly even praying. Negative dissociation related to this aspect of this type of dissociation would be forgetting oneself/dissociating during and with certain negative type movies, music, video games, etc.
 
I would think a good bar for determining the difference between positive and negative dissociation is the effect on your awareness. If what you're doing is good for you then the overall effect should be increased awareness.

From what you describe the overall effect of the whole situation was to plant a blockage in your nervous system that impaired your interaction with women. If the dissociation had a positive effect then we can ask how could it have been worse if you had not dissociated? It's not obvious that you were protected if you have been traumatized for so long.

I wonder if the reason you dissociated was partly because that is the reaction your parents wanted. Maybe in their way of thinking the more humiliated you were the better, and being the child you were, to resist would be to reject the punishment, which would mean harsher and harsher punishments. In other words, you dissociated because you trusted your parents, so you chose that road over the rejection of your parents and all that would entail. Once you reject the guidance of your parents, not out of mere rebellion but in principle, the things you see cannot be unseen and to reckon with those things may require the very guidance that you have rejected, the moreso the younger you are. Many children in this situation instead reject their parents and then suffer greatly from the loss of the guidance of the previous generation - although this situation is partly due to the degraded state of that very guidance as society deteriorates.

To me, positive dissociation means for one, that the reduced awareness while dissociating is a reduced awareness of things you don't really need to be aware of, at least not yet, and that you could be aware of at any moment if the need arose (unlike if you were sleeping or dissociated with degraded awareness). So first there is no harm. And secondly, while dissociating some part of you rests or recuperates, so the effect afterward is an improved awareness, attention span, creativity, spontaneity and capacity for experience. And improved ability to think on multiple levels simultaneously. And it's not obvious that overall awareness is decreased during positive dissociation, it could be that your awareness is shifting from awareness of outer circumstances which are mostly settled (if you haven't been avoiding your problems), to an inner landscape full of thought and information absorbed from your reading material, which after all is not mere entertainment is it? Are you aware of your thoughts, aware of the information coming in, are you consciously engaged in working out the personal implications of the information you are receiving?
 
We can also ask, if you were not to dissociate, what would you have done instead? Maybe the stoic answer is to accept the situation, accept your parent's intent albeit flawed in execution, so you can accept they still live you in some sense. Then it is not so difficult to read the words, after all they don't matter so much in the greater picture. But this is not what we would expect of a child, is it? Why is that? I think that what we are asking of this poor child is the very courage that a trusting child lacks when faced with the withdrawal of parental love (or at least the appearance that it has been withdrawn).

But, that is just my theory, which is probably more a reflection of my experience and assumptions and illusions than it is your specific situation.
 
An example I found interesting in representing external considering can be the young girl Chihiro, from Spirited Away by Miyazaki.
Seeing an external illustration reflected a more concrete idea of the concept for me.
 
Even though I'm auditory wired and like music more, I've chosen to pursue art as a hobby for the past 12 years or so. But it easily gets out of hand especially with Youtube videos. In 2019 I made an effort to not watch any related to art, and I used instagram for images instead and didn't have an account so it would lock me out after about 20 views.

This past week and a half I gave myself permission to not pursue any youtube or instagram art content. I succeeded and would scroll past it or briefly look at the youtube videos on hover. But I wanted to just note the effect it had on my perception. It seemed like time went much slower, even more so than what the equivalent time watching the videos would seem to entail. Maybe it was a mild dopamine detox. I used the time for twitter, forum reading and just getting to bed earlier. I think there is really something hypnotizing about videos especially that puts you in an alpha brain state.

Yesterday the week was nearly over and I used Pinterest instead to sort of get my feet in the water. But today I'm at a point where I can continue or reassess things. I did actually draw last week and if I'm being realistic, the videos are basically entertainment because I don't really learn anything. Oh and if you have a hard time letting it go, ask an absurd question like, "Can I live without it?" At least with TV series and movies, they are basically one and done once you watch them. I think youtube is the worst with the algorithm recommendations and pages of videos.

That being said, I don't think I can just throw away my seeming high need for visual stimulation. It's nice to look at nature itself and I even saw a really interesting Windows Spotlight background at work today. I was in a happy mood because I was able to sing/beatbox in a secluded area just before. I think that with many things balance comes into play, and consumption shouldn't be overdone and it can be helpful to create and share to offset it.
 
Reading or watching short informational videos… taking in the information mentating on it…remembering the past for patterns to see the truth in what I just consumed and to see if I can use it in my present/future life. But sometimes I let the info drip on my being trying to receive it without my intellectual center trying to control/grasp it…. to see if it sticks in some way shape or form takes hold in me. I do both ways based on a feeling or knowing based on experience maybe call it a hunch
 
Menna said:
Reading or watching short informational videos… taking in the information mentating on it…remembering the past for patterns to see the truth in what I just consumed and to see if I can use it in my present/future life. But sometimes I let the info drip on my being trying to receive it without my intellectual center trying to control/grasp it…. to see if it sticks in some way shape or form takes hold in me. I do both ways based on a feeling or knowing based on experience maybe call it a hunch
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And what has been your experience with both approaches? because it sounds interesting, as I do agree that not every bit one learns comes from an intellectual front that is focused on remembering it. Although I do think that the intellect should participate in everything one learns eventually.
 
Alejo said:
And what has been your experience with both approaches? because it sounds interesting, as I do agree that not every bit one learns comes from an intellectual front that is focused on remembering it. Although I do think that the intellect should participate in everything one learns eventually.
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If I don’t intellectually understand something but it strikes a cord in me or I feel the words like they are an analogy that paints a picture. I don’t fight to try to understand with my head. I just let it be….


I have found sometimes in life wether it be 7 years later or 7 months later or 7 weeks later I go through a situation and then I have a ahhh haaa! Moment and remember (without trying to) that’s what that meant…

I guess you have to keep something tucked away in the subconscious… maybe… I dunno but again I’ve been talking about fate and time and other things humans can’t control so I’m trying not to force as much as I have in the past … turns into me grinding my gears too much… maybe this is my lesson or an objective truth but it’s something I’ve realized through logic and experience here in this timeline so I’m going with it for now and will see what transpires from this slight energy/vibration change. The universe is smarter and more powerful than me I’ll let it talk to me instead of me doing all the talking…I think that might be where faith comes/opening up going with what the Cs say in the quote that Laura likes.


Then on a more practical front there’s the intellect and emotional center together driving memory/learning I think it’s called the restori effect or something but I’m at my 10min edit limit might not have time to look up correct spelling
 
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Menna said:
Then on a more practical front there’s the intellect and emotional center together driving memory/learning I think it’s called the restori effect or something but I’m at my 10min edit limit might not have time to look up correct spelling
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You can always post it afterwards.

Menna said:
I have found sometimes in life wether it be 7 years later or 7 months later or 7 weeks later I go through a situation and then I have a ahhh haaa! Moment and remember (without trying to) that’s what that meant…
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I see what you mean, I think that's the recalling of information from memory, and I think it does have a lot to do with the way the information gets stored and how we recall it. Some people are more visual, some are more auditive, and so on. But, it changes from time to time.

Sometimes I don't remember a concept from remembering the words written on the page, from where I read it, sometimes I remember it because I was in a specific place, or wearing something specific or a song was playing in the background.
 
Alejo said:
Sometimes I don't remember a concept from remembering the words written on the page, from where I read it, sometimes I remember it because I was in a specific place, or wearing something specific or a song was playing in the background.
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Yes, the “other” senses carry the information (in the background) and experience or situation activates the subconscious and or the senses to bring or merge what it was carrying to the forefront. - Also there is junk information A influences I think there’s a level of trust or faith that one’s being will hold what it needs to hold and being that we chose to be here and now an experience or situation will bring what needs to be known into the WHOLE being.

It takes a lot of tact and nuance to blend being active and passive to navigate in life properly and I’m still learning that balance, albeit I will be experimenting with passive more as active was used ALOT and the “results” don’t always make sense when taking a step back. I feel like I have to respect the fact that I am here now and this timeline is unique to my experience…I don’t want to scare the beautiful deer away by getting too close just observe experience and appreciate in some sense while balancing keeping certain things for myself. That knowing of when to act be active and take and when to experience and let go is something important. I wish I had something on my shoulder to tell me what applies to what situation…
 
Alejo said:
Don't we all, but that's what learning is all about.
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There seems to always be a twist or a nuance. Also my statement More relates to the “stress” factor of always having to be “on point” with all of your senses and centers in all situations. Even with people you may know for decades. I’ve noticed a condescending essence coming from one of my long term friendships and now I need to put distance as I do not want to stoke and even if I am mature enough to not overact or have it disrupt too much It is still happening. Just using this as an example that it seems there are no breaks in “learning” in lessons if with people one has known for 20 min or 20 years…thus it would be nice to be able to have a guard down for a small percentage of time hence the shoulder friend. I can’t keep up with all the programs and spirit attachments in others that interact with my being thus forcing me to have to mentate and I don’t mention this to be condicending to others but it’s the truth and I have my own luggedge to unpack I’m out of closet space… The shoulder analogy was used as it would be nice to be in life relaxed around others for a portion… Being alone is great but that’s not the 4th way
 
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Menna said:
Being alone is great but that’s not the 4th way
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That's true.. and it is great when one is able to avoid certain interactions, but some are quite simply unavoidable and one's inner peace, IMO, should not depend on that entirely.

I deal with strangers and their inner worlds all day long as part of my job, and this is when the idea of external consideration really pays off, it takes a toll.. but it does help to strengthen this notion of one's inner solidity to be able to navigate the world with people who see the world in a very different way than ours.

In terms of learning, and interactions, I keep in mind JBP's idea that everyone you meet has something to teach you.
 
Alejo said:
everyone you meet has something to teach you.
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Yes, and with strangers unless it’s overt I tend not to blink an eye. However with those of a long relationship this “teach you” when mixed with the way I “work” at current causes emotions, sensations and thoughts that need time to be worked through in this space/time…the Cs say it’s draining for the soul to be in the body. This teaching/learning prospective gaining process for me is like healing from an injury. At times in my life this something to teach you/learning process is not “spread out” enough where I have ample energy from the last learning. Hence the warning thing on my shoulder is needed referred to a few posts ago. As I can have all the knowledge in the world but if the energy is not at a certain level it’s hard to apply and even remember what fits where. I do not get this from an everyday stranger interaction standpoint as taking those interaction seriously (as long as they are within society boundries) is futile but If I am walking into a learning situation with friends on March 4th and a learning realization happens it would be nice when I go out with family on April 7th if the warning on the shoulder says “expect this or that” and “refrain from this” before I walk in the door…

My learning process requires time to heal on the back end… thus bringing everything together full circle here in this thread… positive disassociation is a tool I can use. I’m learned to respect myself more so I give myself more time to learn and heal without excuses but the compounding and lack of “time” between learning situations is more of my complaint based on my internal make up thus the seldom warning analogy as a way of “buying” time/space
 
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