Post-imperialism-A-Template-for-a-New-Social-Order

[Joe]

Your posts give the impression that you didn't really read the article carefully or you didn't really understand the spirit in which it was written.

Indeed. Pierre's article clearly outlines the philosophy of post-imperialism regarding sport, which you seemed to have either ignored or totally misunderstood:

'Modern sport' have nothing to do with sport, fun or sharing anymore. These are highly mediatized and professionalized activities ruled by individualism, competition and money. In addition to promoting those destructive values in our minds, their permament media coverage constitutes a major diversion from what really matters.

I think the problem here is that if something conflicts with what Luke likes, then he has a hard time understanding any argument for that thing. I think the issue is that, as he said, "I really like professional sports", and everything else he has written is just a narrative to justify that like, which includes him not understanding the fairly prosaic point of the article.

 

[RflctnOfU]

Just wanted to add my two cents.

First of all, great article and discussion. I have been thinking of this topic for some years now, and many of the ideas presented mirror my own. Though, there are aspects in the overall piece I have not given any thought to as of yet....so, THANKS for the food for thought :)

My opinion regarding sport, and it's proper (IMO) use, boils down to the following - it is a means of developing the body/moving center primarily, and a means of social/community interaction/development secondarily (teamwork/cooperation etc).

As for professional sports, and the salaries "earned" by top athletes, well, I do agree with what Luke said regarding it being a reflection of society as it is now --- and to take that further ---> completely topsy-turvy/upside down. Glorification of the physical at the expense of feeling/thought. And just look at, in general, the quality of the human 'beings' that are at the top of the sporting pyramid, who "earn" such obscene amounts of money. They are paid so well because of the distraction function they fulfil. OSIT. Bread and circuses.

Kris

 

[Jenn]

It's quite rare that you can achieve mastery in anything, be it uncovering the truth (e.g. Laura), sculpting greatly (e.g. Michelangelo), being a great painter (da Vinci), great scientist (Tesla), great athlete (C Ronaldo) etc etc without imposing on yourself such conditions that in many eyes constitute suffering. So, on the subject of suffering on sport, what's the difference between that and any of the rest. It's suffering not for its own sake but for the sake of getting to a new level.

Luke,

Don't you see an obvious difference between Laura, Tesla or Da Vinci and Christiano Ronaldo?

Did the latter achieve anything in terms of consciousness, knowledge or awareness? C. Ronaldo is a star because the sport business is heavily sponsored by the elites. The elites support the sport business because it serves them in several ways:
- it provides the masses with pseudo heroes (and therefore fills the void for real heroes),
- it promotes individualistic, competitive values and normalizes psychopathic behaviours,
- it offers an emotional outlet to the oppressed and angry masses,
- it diverts the masses from what really matters,
- it constitutes a perfect media for the marketing operations of multinational corporation.

Exactly! All you have to do is open a magazine to see the sportsmen/women promoting products, gossip magazines talking about their lives. If it was really ALL about the sport then why all the showbiz rubbish?
I have to agree here, these athletes are pseudo heroes, footballers have got a pretty bad reputation in today's society, how many have been caught cheating on their partners, raping or abusing their families, these are the type of people we are conditioned to look up to In my experience alot of kids these days wants to be rich, famous and beautiful rather than talented super-heroes who inspire millions, although as I say this is just my experience.

 

[Carl]

I also kind of like professional sports. I think it's cool how athletic and skilled some people can be at doing a certain thing with their body. I also see the appeal of stats, league tables, and being the best. Thing is, we wouldn't need all that if things were generally awesome all round.

The thing about sports being inspirational is a myth. The only reason people from poorer areas started getting brought into sports was genetic ability (for instance, it's not a rule, but black dudes tend to be more muscular on average). They perform in service of distraction, enrichment of elites, and constant push for "bigger and better", not really to make the world a more hospitable place. As a famous rapper from the 90's once said, talking about the ghettos in USA, "Either you're slinging crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot". If you think about it, how is a kid gonna be inspired by Usain Bolt when he gets sold into slavery? These people mostly do nothing to improve the world despite their massive public platform.

I wish people would just chill out about sports. In a perfect society we could have sports, maybe competitive sports like football, but the competition would not be taken so seriously. Sure it's cool if you're a kind of 'moving center', body-oriented oriented person, genetically gifted, and put a lot of work into training your body, but is that worthy of worship and projection of all kinds of ideals?

 

[Buddy]

luke, I'm going to change the usual way of answering to see if it helps you consider what I'm about to say with less interference from your usual thoughts:

[quote author=luke]
Explain it to me Buddy? What are your thoughts on this? I honestly don't understand this.[/quote]

I don't know that you're going to understand it. The thought and experience structure that got you to the point of idolizing those sport heroes of yours because they embody "overcoming" the Man and his system is the very structure being asked to reconsider the position you've taken. You will probably not reconsider though, because maybe all that you are has been invested in this and you may sense a threat to the entire existence of "you" on this topic. How could that be easy for you?

Besides, there is no "understanding" possible or needed, IMO. "Understanding" seems to be a well-hidden illusion for many people. What there is happens to be sensate, labeling/recognition, description, interpretation, re-interpretation and translation within a knowledge framework that feels more familiar and comfortable.

I write, but I don't have any illusion that these thoughts are inspired, original or all "mine." What I call "my" thoughts on this issue may have been created by someone else, somewhere else. To me, the real issue is "tuning." I am simply "tuned" this way and in this direction with respect to the topic under discussion. This is how I'm "tuned" and all the thoughts that go with this tuning come to me and link up with the stuff I have personally researched, studied and experienced throughout my life, that's all.

So, my "explanation" is going to be unsatisfactory, since "I" have no answers...just a "tuning" so to speak and that seems to have been "me" all along. There's been no drastic change in my position on this. I'm sorry, but if you want a comfortable certainty on this issue and such a thing is possible, then I'm afraid you're going to have to work for it yourself.

[quote author=luke]
In my eyes cultured people, of which the majority in this forum are, look down on sport because they are terrified by the force it has, the force to move people, the force to evoke powerful emotions, the force to bring countless people together, plus usually cultured people tend to value mental activities more than physical activities, which they see as cheap and not worth the same value as intellectual property.[/quote]

In my eyes it looks differently. I see people similar to myself who believe the body doesn't want or need any of that and that it is actually unhealthy.


Final note: Appearances to the contrary, I don't condemn sports or people who like them. To me, the current discussion is not so much about coming down on sports (the object) so much as examining thought structures (the subject) involved to see what they're made of.

 

[kalibex]

The only elements that gave me pause:

A hint of:

• Eugenics (People deemed mentally incompetent must be sterilized.) Who would set the 'standard'?
• Paternalism: (Women not allowed to have a job above a certain level of strenuousness / danger). I think I know where you were going with this one - that only the mother can ensure proper early attachment. I prefer the model from one speculative novel where women having children were able to bond and care for the children intensely for the most crucial time (several years, actually). What they did later after that crucial time...wasn't limited per se.
• Gay couples allowed to marry - but not to raise children. Any arguments about children needing proper gender role models at hand would arguably be already a non-issue due to the strong 'village raising the children' atmosphere of the post-imperialism villages as described. On the other hand, if this one's partly due to that hypothesis I saw mentioned here that gay folks are supposed to be off being shamans and wouldn't/shouldn't have time for a family anyway idea, then fair enough, but you'll have to be more specific about what's behind this one.

 

[luke wilson]

Your posts give the impression that you didn't really read the article carefully or you didn't really understand the spirit in which it was written.

Indeed. Pierre's article clearly outlines the philosophy of post-imperialism regarding sport, which you seemed to have either ignored or totally misunderstood:

'Modern sport' have nothing to do with sport, fun or sharing anymore. These are highly mediatized and professionalized activities ruled by individualism, competition and money. In addition to promoting those destructive values in our minds, their permament media coverage constitutes a major diversion from what really matters.

I think the problem here is that if something conflicts with what Luke likes, then he has a hard time understanding any argument for that thing. I think the issue is that, as he said, "I really like professional sports", and everything else he has written is just a narrative to justify that like, which includes him not understanding the fairly prosaic point of the article.

Agreed. I admit I like professional sports and sports in general. This is probably clouding my view.

I think it's clear that this is certainly a sacred cows of yours. I think its best to keep it in mind and reread this topic whenever it rings a bell.

It's looking like it's a sacred cow indeed.

It's quite rare that you can achieve mastery in anything, be it uncovering the truth (e.g. Laura), sculpting greatly (e.g. Michelangelo), being a great painter (da Vinci), great scientist (Tesla), great athlete (C Ronaldo) etc etc without imposing on yourself such conditions that in many eyes constitute suffering. So, on the subject of suffering on sport, what's the difference between that and any of the rest. It's suffering not for its own sake but for the sake of getting to a new level.

Luke,

Don't you see an obvious difference between Laura, Tesla or Da Vinci and Christiano Ronaldo?

Did the latter achieve anything in terms of consciousness, knowledge or awareness? C. Ronaldo is a star because the sport business is heavily sponsored by the elites. The elites support the sport business because it serves them in several ways:
- it provides the masses with pseudo heroes (and therefore fills the void for real heroes),
- it promotes individualistic, competitive values and normalizes psychopathic behaviours,
- it offers an emotional outlet to the oppressed and angry masses,
- it diverts the masses from what really matters,
- it constitutes a perfect media for the marketing operations of multinational corporation.

Agreed but I admit I'm an admirer of C Ronaldo. He came from a poor island. When he was first brought to England by United, he was taking a lot of flak for being all showy and no substance. He worked hard and always remained on the straight and narrow and he improved immensely. He then got sold for what was at the time the world record fee for a soccer player and he lived up to the price tag by going on to become one of the greatest goalscorers in the history of football. I admire what he has achieved from such modest beginnings, the work he has done. But yeah, with success came a sort of egotistical self centred demeanour especially towards the twilight of his career. The thing I admire is that the levels he got to just doesn't happen by itself, it's worked at. There is no centimetre of gain that he has got that isn't a direct result of discipline, dedication and sheer hard work. His world is a competitive one and to get to that level he got to, it shows the drive a human being is capable off.

But yeah, he is not an inventor of electricity or cure for cancer or any of that stuff so it's different. I put him in the same league as a great artist or musician. A cultural phenomena more than anything else. I put most great athletes in that bracket.

Having said the above, I whole heartedly agree with everything you said.

Is it possible to agree with everything you said and still admire a top modern athlete? Is it a sign of cognitive dissonance?

The thing about sports being inspirational is a myth. The only reason people from poorer areas started getting brought into sports was genetic ability (for instance, it's not a rule, but black dudes tend to be more muscular on average). They perform in service of distraction, enrichment of elites, and constant push for "bigger and better", not really to make the world a more hospitable place. As a famous rapper from the 90's once said, talking about the ghettos in USA, "Either you're slinging crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot". If you think about it, how is a kid gonna be inspired by Usain Bolt when he gets sold into slavery? These people mostly do nothing to improve the world despite their massive public platform.

Carl, I respectfully disagree with the above section. Poor people get into sports not because of genetic ability but because it's a route out of poverty and it usually doesn't require money to get into most popular sports plus also due to culture. When you talk about black dudes, you forget many other athletes who came from a poor background that are not black. Also I think it's not true that black dudes are more muscular on average!! This is a racist stereotype emanating from the days of slavery and jim crow. Go to any african country where you'll be inundated by black dudes and tell me if you notice above average muscular builds... Sure, yeah, when you watch the black people in the olympics you'll notice they are muscular BUT that's only because they have been training.... Also with the rap quote, most black american people (as it's only referring to black americans), back in the day, given the vast majority grew up in poor areas due to segregation and whatnot, the easiest way into university was through sport scholarships (given that schools in poor areas perform badly!). That's why they were like if you were a young black male, you were either selling dope or were good at some sport... but alas! the musician forgot to mention they also took to music quite a lot.... happened to take himself out of the equation...

Now that stereotype doesn't really hold as a lot of minority in america are in the middle class bracket so it's not just either selling crack rock or having a wicked jump shot.... Please update your views as the rap quote is outdated!

This also needs updating

They perform in service of distraction, enrichment of elites, and constant push for "bigger and better", not really to make the world a more hospitable place.

What does it even mean? What? And when you turn up to work everyday you do something different? Who are you working for? Who are you enriching? Carl....

Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree with

I wish people would just chill out about sports. In a perfect society we could have sports, maybe competitive sports like football, but the competition would not be taken so seriously. Sure it's cool if you're a kind of 'moving center', body-oriented oriented person, genetically gifted, and put a lot of work into training your body, but is that worthy of worship and projection of all kinds of ideals?

But ok.... it looks like sports is a sacred cow of mine even though I'm not really a fanatic of sport, I watch it and keep tabs from a distance.... my involvement in it never went beyond leisure.

 

[Pierre]

Is it possible to agree with everything you said and still admire a top modern athlete? Is it a sign of cognitive dissonance?

One of the core components of the Work is to stop lying to ourselves, stop making and believing our narratives. If you get an objective understanding of the sport business, of your attachment to some aspects of sports, to the true reasons why you admire this or that sportman then there is not necessarily any cognitive dissonance.

 

[theos]

My view on organized sport as it exists today is that it is a huge distraction, not just for the regular viewers or fanatics, but for the players themselves. I theorize that sport is a way for the PTB to deter the 'warrior class' from what would be their duties in a more humane or ideal world. These strong, brawny guys are taken away from what would truly be helpful for communities and funneled into a world of hedonism and money grubbing. Their physical talents would be more more useful building, hunting, providing, teaching skills that require a lot of physicality and, importantly, protecting their families and communities from the bad guys. Instead they're chasing a ball around a court and wasting all their energy and strength for nothing, essentially. Yes, some sportsmen give back to the community and are family oriented but I would hazard to guess that it's not the vast majority of them.

There's nothing wrong with having physical prowess. In a post-imperialist society sport should be done for leisure and letting off steam and displayed in exhibition type forums where the athlete can show off their physical skill as a testament to what the human body is capable of. This can be interesting and inspiring for others to see. Anything more than this is a waste, IMO.

 

[luke wilson]

My view on organized sport as it exists today is that it is a huge distraction, not just for the regular viewers or fanatics, but for the players themselves. I theorize that sport is a way for the PTB to deter the 'warrior class' from what would be their duties in a more humane or ideal world. These strong, brawny guys are taken away from what would truly be helpful for communities and funneled into a world of hedonism and money grubbing. Their physical talents would be more more useful building, hunting, providing, teaching skills that require a lot of physicality and, importantly, protecting their families and communities from the bad guys. Instead they're chasing a ball around a court and wasting all their energy and strength for nothing, essentially. Yes, some sportsmen give back to the community and are family oriented but I would hazard to guess that it's not the vast majority of them.

There's nothing wrong with having physical prowess. In a post-imperialist society sport should be done for leisure and letting off steam and displayed in exhibition type forums where the athlete can show off their physical skill as a testament to what the human body is capable of. This can be interesting and inspiring for others to see. Anything more than this is a waste, IMO.

OMG! Agreed.

Case closed. Thanks! They should stick that into the section about sports in the article!! This particularly captured what didn't go down well for me when reading the article

In a post-imperialist society sport should be done for leisure and letting off steam and displayed in exhibition type forums where the athlete can show off their physical skill as a testament to what the human body is capable of. This can be interesting and inspiring for others to see.

Not only the human body but people working together as a team in a sports/competitive environment. The power of teams is quite a wonder to behold. How different individuals can come together and function as a single unit and when they compete against each other as teams, when they have to be better and better at it in order to win the competition... by better and better, I mean more like when through competition, opposing sides use each other as a ladder to climb up, as inspiration, as a reason... well, what's not to admire??? It's like when you have individual rival athletes and through their rivalry they just scale new heights... What's not to admire? Most great rivals are like super friends after retirement and admit how they each helped each other out!!!

In most other arena's people don't work as a team... at work, in your office.. even though you might be in a team... rarely do people have each others back... no one is showing dedication to their teammates... synergy is lacking... leisurely... it's all fun but the team really is lacking that cohesion due to lack of shared unifying purpose... the military is the only other place I can think off where you can get such strong bonds but the military is all about killing and staying alive (not good!)... in this forum, when a long time member one day ups and decides to attack Laura, attack the forum... because of some ridiculous reason... when they let their own personal issues make them lose sight as to what matters... where the hell is the team element in that? I have seen sports people put their own personal stuff to one side for the sake of their team (which is a set of individuals!), for the goal of their team... there is so much to learn from such people that is useful to any society... when this thing works properly, it's like wow! So this is what humanity is capable off?

If society, as a group of people, had the same levels of dedication, cohesion and synergy that proper teams display... well... we'd be living in utopia right now!! Utopia is nothing more than cohesion between people. They think its all the fancy technology but I think it's people and relationships between people that make up a utopia! I am yet to see anything capable of getting people to surpass their own personal limitations and reach new levels than when they are properly hooked up into something greater than themselves i.e. a team. C Ronaldo would be no where near where he is now if he didn't have galacticos around him... the day he forgets that is the day he finds himself back in obscurity.

 

[Buddy]

My view on organized sport as it exists today is that it is a huge distraction, not just for the regular viewers or fanatics, but for the players themselves. I theorize that sport is a way for the PTB to deter the 'warrior class' from what would be their duties in a more humane or ideal world. These strong, brawny guys are taken away from what would truly be helpful for communities and funneled into a world of hedonism and money grubbing. Their physical talents would be more more useful building, hunting, providing, teaching skills that require a lot of physicality and, importantly, protecting their families and communities from the bad guys. Instead they're chasing a ball around a court and wasting all their energy and strength for nothing, essentially. Yes, some sportsmen give back to the community and are family oriented but I would hazard to guess that it's not the vast majority of them.

There's nothing wrong with having physical prowess. In a post-imperialist society sport should be done for leisure and letting off steam and displayed in exhibition type forums where the athlete can show off their physical skill as a testament to what the human body is capable of. This can be interesting and inspiring for others to see. Anything more than this is a waste, IMO.

OMG! Agreed.

Case closed. Thanks!

Glad you found a way to relate, luke.

 

[theos]

Not only the human body but people working together as a team in a sports/competitive environment. The power of teams is quite a wonder to behold. How different individuals can come together and function as a single unit and when they compete against each other as teams, when they have to be better and better at it in order to win the competition... by better and better, I mean more like when through competition, opposing sides use each other as a ladder to climb up, as inspiration, as a reason... well, what's not to admire??? It's like when you have individual rival athletes and through their rivalry they just scale new heights... What's not to admire? Most great rivals are like super friends after retirement and admit how they each helped each other out!!!

I think you're running away with the ball here. I'm not picturing teams of people competing against each other to see who is the best. I'm picturing a showcase of physical talents that is held every now and then. And not as a paid job. Kinda like a dance or music recital. Not the bobcats vs the lions or whatever. If a sporty dude wants a sense of team-ness with others, raise a barn or do something that will benefit others. Don't waste it on some stupid competition held week after week, year after year.

 

[mkrnhr]

I think you're running away with the ball here. I'm not picturing teams of people competing against each other to see who is the best. I'm picturing a showcase of physical talents that is held every now and then. And not as a paid job. Kinda like a dance or music recital. Not the bobcats vs the lions or whatever. If a sporty dude wants a sense of team-ness with others, raise a barn or do something that will benefit others. Don't waste it on some stupid competition held week after week, year after year.

There is a psychological effect of the sport industry that derives directly from the very concept of competition. When we talk about these shows, we say "playing against", not "playing with". In football, Brasil plays against Germany for example. Of course, it's not the country that plays against another country, but a few millionaires in shorts with lots of people people identifying. They watch sport instead of enjoying it (because it's enjoyable, especially with others). A fundamental aspect that has been omitted from physical/mental activities is togetherness, and play. In the post-imperialism model as described in the article, the system where a few sponsored millionaires provide a show for millions to watch in their sofa, with all the waste of money and energy, is replaced by a system where ordinary people can have physical (and other) activity together with no competitiveness, to be healthy physically and emotionally. On the subject of play, there are a few articles in SOTT, one of which is http://www.sott.net/article/303581-Play-mitigates-the-effects-of-stress-and-disease

 

[Neil]

On, "professional athletes" in the proposed new society. I don't think there would be anyone who would have the job description of athlete, but that it might grow out of their normal job. I'm thinking about Native American hunters who had archery contests or horseback races with neighboring tribes. So construction laborers might throw a discus, mechanics might race cars; they might make a sport out of their job function, but sports would not be their job. There would be no social support or economic incentive for racing leagues or marksmanship clubs, but if somebody wanted go use their vacation to go and race or whatever, they would have the freedom to do that. I'm sure some of the most skilled would gain a certain degree of notoriety and fame, but if it went to their head and they failed to fulfill their community responsibilities as dictated by their job function, they would be exiled from the community and the economic system.

On "Eugenics." It would probably be the village elders, perhaps in conjunction with the national government. The threshold for that would probably be conditions that are untreatable with proper nutrition and socializing. The reason would be, so 4D STS doesn't regain a foothold by creating a new race through infecting the weakest among us. If psychopaths are out of the way, they are going to try something else. People without their faculties would just be cannon fodder for them. Plus the offspring of such individuals suffer needlessly. If everyone is of more or less sound mind and able to approach the Work in some form or fashion, we eliminate their proxies and they're going to have to come down in their spaceships and do their dirty work themselves if they still want to mess with us. Then it will be much harder for them to get away with the things that they do. A thought I had recently was that perhaps the great gift that Putin is going to bring to the world is his strategic approaches. Perhaps his astute chess game with the NWO can be used as a template to mount a resistance against 4D STS when the time comes for those who have the esoteric knowledge to apply it to the next level, since they are all basically 4D STS proxies. The farther out you draw the man from behind the curtain, the more vulnerable he becomes.

On "Paternalism." I thought it was directed more toward Gender Theory, since Pierre mentioned a 3 year maternity leave. Women shouldn't be forced to compete on a physical level with men "because they are basically the same." They are free to choose to, but in my experience they rarely do.

I'm not sure about the gay couples and children thing. I've heard conflicting reports about whether it is beneficial or detrimental to the children, and of course the shaman subject has been broached here, but I don't know enough about it to have an opinion. I suppose it is related to the severing of the human-cosmic connection that Pierre discusses in his "Mummy, why is Daddy wearing a dress..." article that is the result of the rise of "faux homosexuality." Maybe, in light of the PEAR studies, it is intended to discourage an activity which can lower humanity's cosmic potentials.

The most contentious issue is the awarding of community points, since they would have the same value in that society as money does in our society. Perhaps FOTCM is the petrie dish version of that system to find where the pitfalls are. The pathologicals are definitely going to try to manipulate the community points system so that they can get more power, so that is the lynchpin that would require the most work to hammer out.

 

[luke wilson]

What's wrong with competition? You do know that even on a school sports day, kids compete against each other either as individuals or as houses? Competition is not necessarily evil? It can be a form of play! It depends on the situation. What is sport without competition? Might as well call it something different. When kids play tag, what do you call that... One kid chasing another... Competition! They are competing on speed otherwise one kid might as well just stand there and refuse to run I.e you are not playing tag anymore... Its like saying the communities in the ideal society will have militias but you will expect never to have conflicts? Whaaaaaaaat? Then don't have militias to begin with! Or it's like saying there will be prostitutes but you expect not to have sexual predators? What? Then don't have prostitutes to begin with! Sport without competition... Don't have any sport to begin with! The point is something's just follow after each other....

When you say Brazil vs Germany... You are thinking this society... This scale... In small communities, you can have sports days? No? You'll have different groups competing against each other I.e. playing sports! If your society goes global... You can have the best from regions competing against each other or the best mechanics from regions building the best cars for the best drivers to race against each other... Even if it's not professional, you'll still have the best in your society at whatever sport playing with/against each other. That's not to say you won't have the rest doing it at their back yards for fun... Also, if you have these sports day or whatever you want to call them, on whatever scale... Uhmmm... people will come to watch! You go to watch your kids at the school sports day! It doesn't make you a couch potato! You are thinking today's world! The highest scale in today's world is countries of millions, if the highest scale in the ideal society is a village of 50 people, then that's the level things will be happening at! Also, you do know in todays society, some soccer teams e.g. those of really small countries, the players are not actually professional athletes I.e. They have day jobs e.g. doctors, mechanics etc... Every now and again though, they will play for their country on the highest stage because they are the best athletes their country has to offer. They will go up against professionals from other region... Sooooo it's not even that athletes have to not have a day job! Its just that, as you would expect, this semi pros can't reach the same levels as the ones where its their job... But whatever, it depends on scale.. On this one... The best are pros... In the ideal the best will be semi... Nothing to stop the semis sporting with each other, they'll be the best you have to offer... Maybe the word competition is evil... In sports it looks like the ideal world will restrict itself thus restrict development on this front... I hope the rest applies in other areas which have the potential to go evil e.g. the militia, entertainment, art etc etc... Or maybe instead of restricting activities, you just have a type of human being who is well educated, well informed and thus capable of making good decisions independently without having to rely on a nanny state.

The problem with restriction, is that, as shown in the semi vs pro example in soccer, when the semi comes up against the pro... they lose.. So, in your militia for example... If they meet 2 weekends in a month and run around a forest and there is another militia somewhere doing this everyday on a full-time basis and some crazy lunatic takes it over and decides to march on your village e.g. Alexander the great equivalent... Your village is done for... A huge kingdom in S America went down the tube because a handful of Spanish conquistadors had guns and none of these guys did... You know how they got the guns? Development.... Semis aren't developing at the same rate as pros... That's all I'm saying.

PS: I actually don't think we are disagreeing. Just discussing the article. Btw, in Belfast, at a peace wall... I saw the most interesting of sayings which applies to any ideal society.. you can see it, 4th picture down... "Nothing about us, without us, is for us". It indicates that any ideal society will probably have to involve the citizenry in its design.