Prehistoric Astronomy and the Younger Dryas Catastrophe?

Michael Barker-Caven

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Without this 23° tilt the ecliptical plane would be simply coplanar with Earth's equatorial plane so tilt doesn't create ecliptic. It means that zodiac would simply consist partly or completely of different constellations. And due to different visible size of constellations, I can imagine, that in the "pre-tilt" zodiac some (probably the smaller ones) constellations would be "replaced" by others while others (the bigger ones) would "remain" and that zodiac itself would possibly even consist of a bigger or smaller number of constellations.
Hi Altair. Yes indeed, thank you; excuse my rather cack-handed description of the effects of the tilt re ecliptic and zodiac. But I think it does still mean that in particular the northern hemisphere sky from the equator up would have had a markedly different look to today, with as you say the zodiac consisting partly or completely of different constellations. That was my main line of thought regarding its implications when extrapolating the zodiac of today back to the symbols at Gobekli Tepe.
 

Altair

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Hi Altair. Yes indeed, thank you; excuse my rather cack-handed description of the effects of the tilt re ecliptic and zodiac. But I think it does still mean that in particular the northern hemisphere sky from the equator up would have had a markedly different look to today, with as you say the zodiac consisting partly or completely of different constellations. That was my main line of thought regarding its implications when extrapolating the zodiac of today back to the symbols at Gobekli Tepe.
Yes, it would be different. Would be interesting to find out to what extent it would differ.

Added: without this tilt there would be no seasons and no equinoxes and possibly no reason for the people on Earth to create zodiac.
 
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mrtn

Jedi Master
Without the tilt the sun would still travel through the same stars in the sky as seen from earth, because it is the axis of earths rotation that is tilted, not the orbit of the earth. Alignment from earth to sun to the stars behind doesn't change. Over the year the position of the sun and stars in the sky wouldn't wobble in a wave fashion. The sun at noon would (seen from one place on earth) be the same height from the horizon in December and June or any other month. On the north pole it would be shadow permanently and you would see the same stars the whole year (the latter is the case now as well, just with a different pole star). A bit further south on earth the sun would travel constantly on the horizon, never rising or setting other than caused by land features. But still the stars behind the sun would be the same as they are now in a particular season. What a year is would be measurable only by the sun-stars relation, when the stars (moving parallel to the horizon) behind the sun have traveled 360° and the sun is in the same sign again. But note that sun and stars travel parallel to the horizon only over the course of the year, but seen from a certain point on earth they would still rise and set during over the course of a day.

As for the canceled text above, I think that was wrong. If you go south and come out of the pole shadow then the sun would just rise very slightly for a moment in the day, but would also travel deeper below the horizon at night, when your position on earth is on the nightside facing outer space away from the sun.

Does that make sense?:-D
 

Altair

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Another piece of evidence for Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis. The paper attached.

The Younger Dryas interval at Wonderkrater (South Africa) in the context of a platinum anomaly
J.F. Thackeray, L. Scott & P. Pieterse

Received 1 March 2019. Accepted 23 August 2019

Abstract

Wonderkrater in the Limpopo Province in South Africa is a late Quaternary archaeological site with peat deposits extending back more than 30 000 years before the present. Palaeoclimatic indices based on multivariate analysis of pollen spectra reflect a decline in tempera- ture identifiable with the Younger Dryas (YD). A prominent spike in platinum is documented in a Wonderkrater sample (5614) with a mean date of 12 744 cal yr BP using a Bayesian model, preceding the onset of the YD cooling event. The YD platinum spike at Wonderkrater is the first to be observed in Africa in the southern hemisphere, supplementing new discoveries from Patagonia in South America, in addition to more than 25 sites with such platinum anomalies in the northern hemisphere. The observations from South Africa serve to strengthen ongoing assessments of the controversial YD Impact Hypothesis, whereby it is proposed that a meteorite or cometary impact contributed to a decline in temperature, associated inter alia with dispersion of atmospheric dust, mammalian extinctions and cultural changes.

[...]

page2image3916968256
Figure 1. Map showing the location of Wonderkrater in South Africa, in relation to more than 25 other Younger Dryas (YD) sites which also have anomalies in platinum concentrations (orange dots) in deposits dated at circa 12 800 cal yr BP. Red dots represent sites with other YD impact proxies including spherules, as well as nanodiamonds as reported for example by Kurbatov et al. (2010). The Pilauco site in Patagonia (southern Chile) and Wonderkrater are as yet the only known sites in the southern hemisphere where YD platinum spikes have been reported. Map drawn after Pino et al. (2019). North and Central America map source: USGS, Sioux Falls; Japan ASTER Program (2003), ASTER Global Digital Elevation Map, GDEM-10 km-BW, from ASTER Global Digital Elevation Map, 10.5067/ASTER/ASTGTM.002.

DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSIONS

The platinum spike in sample 5614 at Wonderkrater precedes the onset of the Younger Dryas cooling event (Fig. 2a,b). Since strong evidence for spikes in platinum has been obtained for the YD interval from more than 25 sites in Europe, Asia and North America (e.g. Kennett et al. 2009, 2015; Petaev 2013; Moore et al. 2017) as well as Mexico (Israde-Alcantara 2012) and Patagonia (Pino et al. 2019),
and now also at Wonderkrater in the southern hemi- sphere (Fig. 1), the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis is in part supported, recognizing criticisms expressed by Pinter et al. (2011), Holliday et al. (2014) and others. One criticism (Tankersley et al. 2018) is that volcanic activity can be a source of platinum (apart from cosmic impacts), but no volcanic activity has been documented in southern Africa within the late Quaternary.

The YD Impact Hypothesis expresses the view that Terminal Pleistocene extinctions can be attributed to a cosmic impact. Without invoking any one particular causal factor, we note the occurrence of terminal Pleisto- cene extinctions of fauna such as Equus capensis, Syncerus antiquus, Megalotragus priscus and Antidorcas bondi in South Africa (Klein 1972 1978; Faith 2011, 2012, 2013a,b, 2014; Thackeray 1980). However, a YD impact cannot account as an instantaneous causal factor since Megalo- tragus (for example) persists in the interior of the country at Wonderwerk (probably at low population densities) until about 7500 BP (Thackeray 2015).
Megafaunal extinctions in South Africa may be attrib- uted to both environmental change and human predation within a period of time before and after 12 800 cal yr BP.

However, on the basis of data presented in this study, it may be cautiously considered that the consequences of a hypothesized YD cosmic impact (and the dispersion of atmospheric dust) may have contributed to some extent to the process of extinctions not only in southern Africa, but also to that which occurred in North and South America as well as Europe, recognizing synchroneity of Pt anomalies (Kennett et al. 2015) that has been cited in support the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis.

We note that in terms of culture, the apparently abrupt change from Robberg to Oakhurst technocomplexes in South Africa as documented, for example, at Boomplaas Cave in the southern Cape (H.J. Deacon 1979 1995; J. Deacon 1982 1984), penecontemporary with the Younger Dryas, is closely co-incident with the cultural change from Clovis to Folsom technologies in North America. The question as to whether this relates indirectly if not directly to a common causal YD cosmic impact is beyond the scope of this article which serves primarily to report a YD plati- num anomaly in the Wonderkrater sequence.

Apart from Wonderkrater, the Younger Dryas cooling interval has been detected from the analysis of pollen in hyrax middens (Chase et al. 2011, 2013, 2015, 2018) and also from oxygen isotope records from terrestrial Achatina snails at Bushman Rock Shelter (Abell & Plug 2000) and marine mollusc shells from Elands Bay (Cohen et al. 1992). Notably, the cultural change between Robberg and the Oakhurst techno-complexes at the former site occurs at about the time of the YD (Mitchell 1988; Lombard et al. 2012 ; Porraz et al. 2015).

The suggestion that the hypothesized YD impact is related in particular to the Hiawatha crater in northern Greenland remains to be conclusively determined on the basis of absolute dates. However, it can already be noted that the large crater rim (31 km in diameter) has not been subject to substantial erosion, and glacial ice older than 12 800 BP is missing (Kjær et al. 2018). Irrespective of where an impact might have occurred, the YD Impact Hypothe- sis is supported in part by this study of the Wonderkrater Core 3 sequence in South Africa in which a platinum spike is reported for sample #5614, with a mean date of 12 744 cal yr BP using Scott’s (2016) Bayesian model, preceding the onset of the YD cooling event.

This is the first evidence in Africa to partially support the YD Impact Hypothesis on the basis of a platinum anomaly in a late Quaternary sedimentary sequence. The Pilauco site in Patagonia in southern Chile (Pino et al. 2019) and Wonderkrater are as yet the only known sites in the southern hemisphere where YD platinum spikes have been reported, supplementing the corresponding evidence from more than 25 sites in the northern hemisphere, dated circa 12 800 cal yr BP.
 

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Carl

The Living Force
FOTCM Member

A team of scientists from South Africa has discovered evidence partially supporting a hypothesis that Earth was struck by a meteorite or asteroid 12 800 years ago, leading to global consequences including climate change, and contributing to the extinction of many species of large animals at the time of an episode called the Younger Dryas.

The team, led by Professor Francis Thackeray of the Evolutionary Studies Institute at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa, discovered evidence of a remarkable "platinum spike" at a site called Wonderkrater in the Limpopo Province, north of Pretoria in South Africa.

.............

A large crater 31 kilometers in diameter has been discovered in northern Greenland beneath the Hiawatha Glacier. "There is some evidence to support the view that it might possibly have been the very place where a large meteorite struck the planet earth 12 800 years ago," says Thackeray. "If this was indeed the case, there must have been global consequences."

Thackeray's team believes their discovery of a platinum spike at about 12 800 years ago at Wonderkrater is just part of the strengthening view that an asteroid or cometary impact might have occurred at that time.

This is the first evidence in Africa for a platinum spike preceding climate change. Younger Dryas spikes in platinum have also been found in Greenland, Eurasia, North America, Mexico and recently also at Pilauco in Chile. Wonderkrater is the 30th site in the world for such evidence.

"Our evidence is entirely consistent with the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis" says Thackeray.

The probability of a large asteroid striking Earth in the future may seem to be low, but there are thousands of large rocks distributed primarily between Jupiter and Mars. One in particular, classified as Apophis 99942, is referred to as a "Potentially Hazardous Asteroid." It is 340 meters wide and will come exceptionally close to the Earth in 10 years' time.

"The closest encounter will take place precisely on Friday April 13, 2029," says Thackeray. "The probability of the Apophis 99942 asteroid hitting us then is only one in 100 000, but the probability of an impact may be even higher at some time in the future, as it comes close to Earth every 10 years."
Are people actually waking up to this? I can't help but postulate that the increasing widespread appeal of the YD Impact Hypothesis in this timeline is due in large part to Laura's efforts many years ago.

Also I'm starting to see an uncanny number of little "data points" pointing at the date range of 2025-2030 as the place where things could get really really "interesting".
 

lilies

Jedi Council Member
Well, be warned, there are a few things I will revise with Settegast's material in mind. Not much, but a bit.
Important:
1.
In order to avoid the significant dryness of Comets and the Horns of Moses, which made the book harder to read, because of the repeated piling on us more and more boring facts, it was devoid of your personality.
Please riddle your entire new book with jokes & humor, A'la Secret History of the World I. I loved your lighthearted descriptions there recounting for example, how the army leaders all important (Joshua, IIRC) were riding here & there with their soldiers bunch for their selfish reasons. Plus your entertaining explanations of you figuring out stuff and explaining to us in your style riddled with funny wording.

2.
Also it would mean a lot if you could insert the hypothesis of the missing ~300 years from history. So in my review and advertising of your book on sites, I could enthusiastically describe how I liked especially that part. Doesn't matter if its a conjecture / hypothesis - not a theory - however you wish to call it, just an idea, IF it doesn't reduce the quality of the book. Point out there isn't enough evidence, etc.. make your excuses toward the hardliner reviewers in the scientific community, if necessary.
 

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Important:
1.
In order to avoid the significant dryness of Comets and the Horns of Moses, which made the book harder to read, because of the repeated piling on us more and more boring facts, it was devoid of your personality.
Please riddle your entire new book with jokes & humor, A'la Secret History of the World I. I loved your lighthearted descriptions there recounting for example, how the army leaders all important (Joshua, IIRC) were riding here & there with their soldiers bunch for their selfish reasons. Plus your entertaining explanations of you figuring out stuff and explaining to us in your style riddled with funny wording.

2.
Also it would mean a lot if you could insert the hypothesis of the missing ~300 years from history. So in my review and advertising of your book on sites, I could enthusiastically describe how I liked especially that part. Doesn't matter if its a conjecture / hypothesis - not a theory - however you wish to call it, just an idea, IF it doesn't reduce the quality of the book. Point out there isn't enough evidence, etc.. make your excuses toward the hardliner reviewers in the scientific community, if necessary.
Wow, lillies! Does this mean that you are a renowned writer yourself and have good reason to write what you wrote, from your own experience? And that your reviews carry a lot of weight, so that Laura should tailor to your taste all the information she has to provide readers with? And that a book is only hard to read for you if the facts are objectively boring, which you can tell, of course? And that you know Laura very well to know what does and doesn't reflect her personality? And that because you say so, she shouldn't be writing in whatever style she sees fit depending on the content and the audience she has in mind? Your humbleness, consideration, objectivity and tact are quite something, IMO.

:rolleyes::headbash:
 

Gaby

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Wow, lillies! Does this mean that you are a renowned writer yourself and have good reason to write what you wrote, from your own experience? And that your reviews carry a lot of weight, so that Laura should tailor to your taste all the information she has to provide readers with? And that a book is only hard to read for you if the facts are objectively boring, which you can tell, of course? And that you know Laura very well to know what does and doesn't reflect her personality? And that because you say so, she shouldn't be writing in whatever style she sees fit depending on the content and the audience she has in mind? Your humbleness, consideration, objectivity and tact are quite something, IMO.
Ditto. And some of us love the facts!
 

Hello H2O

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
1.
In order to avoid the significant dryness of Comets and the Horns of Moses, which made the book harder to read, because of the repeated piling on us more and more boring facts, it was devoid of your personality.
Maybe it was devoid of your false illusion of her personality. I would think it would be hard for Laura to live up to that... and why would she even want to?
 
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