Psychopaths being switched on... Virginia Tech Shooter - Greenbaum?

I don't know if this has been mentioned, there was an article in the local paper today, picked up from elsewhere on the net like here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22vatech.html?hp

But I thought this excerpt was kind of odd:

"In his junior year, Mr. Cho told his then-roommates that he had a girlfriend. Her name was Jelly. She was a supermodel who lived in outer space and traveled by spaceship, and she existed only in the dimension of his imagination.

When Andy Koch, one of his roommates, returned to their suite one day, Mr. Cho shooed him away. He told him Jelly was there. He said she called him Spanky. SpankyJelly became his instant-message screen name."

What was going on in his head and better still, how did it get there???
 
freetrinity said:
Shar said:
Also, if you're going to shoot two random people, why go all the way up to the fourth floor (isn't that where it happened?) instead of closer to the ground where you could get away quicker?

The two shootings just seem so....unrelated, other than the fact that they were both "shootings" and supposedly the same gun was used. :/
He went to the second floor.
Ok, I just read in the paper:

"Emily Hilscher, a freshman, lived in Room 4040, near the elevators on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston Hall, one building from Harper. Shortly after 7 a.m., she was killed by bullets from Mr. Cho’s gun. The same fate met Ryan Clark, one of the dorm’s resident advisers. Mr. Clark is believed to have come out of his room to investigate the noise, only to stumble into death."

This tells us she lived on the fourth floor, although she spend the weekend with a boyfriend at his off-campus townhouse, and he had dropped her off at her dorm that morning. Where was she when she was shot??

Cho did indeed go to the second floor of Norris Hall.
 
Axel_Dunor said:
Laura wrote:

Can't forget that 911 happened during "simulations."

hmmmm...

Same for London bombing.
freetrinity said:
Noble Resolve 07: Four days of "simulated" nuclear terrorist scenarios in the US & Europe

From April, 23 to April 27, the elite echelon of the military are running Noble Resolve 07, a four-day marathon of "simulated" terror attacks across the US and Europe.
and maybe linked with this SOTT news
Propaganda Alert! Citing terror threat, U.S. boosts security in Germany - BERLIN - The U.S. embassy in Germany said on Friday it was increasing security at its facilities in response to what it described as an increased threat of terrorism in the country.
Read story
 
name said:
two things:

a) cryptogon, the blog which (to me) broke the connection of cho's sister to the PTB and about which i posted here, has had a rash of cointelpro activity on his VT-shooting thread, so much so that he closed the comments and called people to order, his first time IIRC.

b) also found via cryptogon, in the comments on his VT-shootings post, here is a link to a website with a summary of weird "coincidences" and contradictions around the VT shooting and related events. see it here: http://www_DOT_legitgov_DOT_org/virginia_tech_shooting_oddities_DOT_html
The two things that really stood out to me:

Local authorities were told to take no action to pursue killer By Paul Joseph Watson 20 Apr 2007 Police and EMT workers at Virginia Tech tell us that campus police were given a federal order to stand down and not pursue killer Cho Seung-Hui as Monday's bloodshed unfolded. Though wishing to remain anonymous for obvious reasons, we have received calls from police and EMT's who tell us that a stand down order was in place, and this is also confirmed by eyewitness Matt Kazee, who is a student at VA Tech.

Shades of 9/11.


Kafka, Orwell rolling in their graves: Student Arrested Over Va. Tech Remarks 18 Apr 2007 A University of Colorado student pleaded not guilty Wednesday to making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic [?] toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said. During a class discussion Tuesday of Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech, Max Karson "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people," university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.

And the goose-stepping continues...


Shar said:
I don't know if this has been mentioned, there was an article in the local paper today, picked up from elsewhere on the net like here:

_http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22vatech.html?hp

But I thought this excerpt was kind of odd:

"In his junior year, Mr. Cho told his then-roommates that he had a girlfriend. Her name was Jelly. She was a supermodel who lived in outer space and traveled by spaceship, and she existed only in the dimension of his imagination.

When Andy Koch, one of his roommates, returned to their suite one day, Mr. Cho shooed him away. He told him Jelly was there. He said she called him Spanky. SpankyJelly became his instant-message screen name."

What was going on in his head and better still, how did it get there???
There's two possibilities: Schizophrenia or 4D STS contact. 4D beings can make themselves look anyway they want, so one could have appeared to a lonely Manchurian Candidate as his supermodel girlfriend. I wonder what else she said to him?
 
Shar said:
I don't know if this has been mentioned, there was an article in the local paper today, picked up from elsewhere on the net like here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22vatech.html?hp

But I thought this excerpt was kind of odd:

"In his junior year, Mr. Cho told his then-roommates that he had a girlfriend. Her name was Jelly. She was a supermodel who lived in outer space and traveled by spaceship, and she existed only in the dimension of his imagination.

When Andy Koch, one of his roommates, returned to their suite one day, Mr. Cho shooed him away. He told him Jelly was there. He said she called him Spanky. SpankyJelly became his instant-message screen name."

What was going on in his head and better still, how did it get there???
Hmmm... that reminds me of John Nash... and suggests not just autism but schizophrenia.

How many here have read "Operators and Things" ???

If you haven't, try to get a copy.
 
an acquaintance MD suggested schizophrenia, too.

and now there is this:



And then there is the possibility that Cho was psychotic. Dr. Frank Ochberg, an expert on violence and psychiatry, began to wonder about psychoses when he read Cho's plays. Psychosis is a broad term covering a spectrum of severe mental illnesses, including paranoia and schizophrenia. Psychotics can grow deeply disoriented and delusional, hearing voices and hallucinating. In severe cases, they lose all contact with reality and literally don't know what they are doing. They sometimes act out of imaginary yet terrifying fear for their own safety, or instructions from imaginary beings. Anger management doesn't calm them: They truly cannot help themselves.
Several clues to psychosis jumped out at Ochberg in Cho's plays. The endings particularly interested him: "The bad guy wins," he said. Harris and Klebold wrote and illustrated innumerable fantasies, and whether they were portraying heroic Marines battling aliens or vicious killers knocking off students, their protagonist always triumphed. But Cho's protagonists were crushed. That's a common way for schizophrenics to depict their dark sides triumphing, Ochberg said.

http://www[dot]slate.com/id/2164757

and


Cho Likely Schizophrenic, Evidence Suggests

A Closer Look at the Minds of Mass Shooters

By MICHAEL WELNER, M.D.

April 17, 2007 — - Renowned forensic psychiatrist Michael Welner has examined some of the most notorious mass shooters of recent years. As details emerge about Seung-Hui Cho, the chairman of the Forensic Panel is following the case for ABC News and sharing his insights from his experience and current medical literature. Using the latest informaton, Welner believes the evidence strongly supports that Cho had paranoid schizophrenia.

Are you saying that the shooter was a schizophrenic?
Not enough has been released to tell for sure. Paranoia, in my professional experience, is the most important element to understand in the possible motives of mass shootings. Virtually all mass shooters are paranoid to some pathological degree. Some of them have suspicious personalities but otherwise maintain a connection to reality. Others have paranoid delusional disorder and have irrational and fixed false ideas about a particular theme. The most extreme of those with paranoia have schizophrenia, a condition that may be associated with intense hostility and different degrees of emotional and mental limitation and — particularly important to mass shooting — progressive and humiliating decline and alienation.

What then leads you to believe Cho had schizophrenia?
How he related to his roommate was just too bizarre to be depression. The bizarre content of his plays -- mashing a half-eaten "banana bar" in someone's mouth, the hypersexual, nihilistic (death obsessed) obsessions in the absence of depressive guilt or tearfulness are another clue. The progressive decline of a period of years. Those with schizophrenia, especially in their earliest years, are not readily recognizable as such -- their condition is evolving. But here was someone who, as early as 2005, was carrying himself so strangely that he was a spectacle. The depressed withdraw and disappear. Those who are so peculiar in their manner so as to be inappropriate (taking cell phone pictures of his teacher, speaking inaudibly, pulling a cap low over his eyes) exhibit signs and symptoms more indicative of schizophrenia. He was communicating in a rambling manner reflective of what we appreciate as autistic thinking -- characteristic of schizophrenia. In a similar vein, Mr. Cho's stilted communication in his homicide note (deceitful charlatans -- not the language of a 23-year-old college kid) is also the manner of a schizophrenic's communications, as is his pronounced delay in responding to questions.

http://boards[dot]crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?p=8843088
 
Laura said:
Hmmm... that reminds me of John Nash... and suggests not just autism but schizophrenia.

How many here have read "Operators and Things" ???

If you haven't, try to get a copy.

So it is possible that he wasn't "programmed" by human sources at all, but by "other"?

Some "other" operator?
Cassiopaeans said:
Q: (L) John called today and talked to me a little bit about the Oklahoma bombing. Now, we haven't talked about it too much... he did bring up some interesting claims. Was the Oklahoma bombing an "inside job," that is, was it done by agents of the government itself?
A: No!
Q: (L) Okay, was the Oklahoma bombing done by the persons who have been arrested for it?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Was the Oklahoma bombing accomplished by the fertilizer bomb placed in the truck parked outside the building?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) It was not accomplished by any bomb inside the building?
A: No.
Q: (L) Was Timothy McVeigh influenced to do this by forces outside of himself?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Were these forces human or other?
A: Other.
 
Shar said:
"In his junior year, Mr. Cho told his then-roommates that he had a girlfriend. Her name was Jelly. She was a supermodel who lived in outer space and traveled by spaceship, and she existed only in the dimension of his imagination.
Jelly, Jellyfish, Medusa.

Blink or imagination, I don't know.
 
Laura said:
Shar said:
I don't know if this has been mentioned, there was an article in the local paper today, picked up from elsewhere on the net like here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22vatech.html?hp

But I thought this excerpt was kind of odd:

"In his junior year, Mr. Cho told his then-roommates that he had a girlfriend. Her name was Jelly. She was a supermodel who lived in outer space and traveled by spaceship, and she existed only in the dimension of his imagination.

When Andy Koch, one of his roommates, returned to their suite one day, Mr. Cho shooed him away. He told him Jelly was there. He said she called him Spanky. SpankyJelly became his instant-message screen name."

What was going on in his head and better still, how did it get there???
Hmmm... that reminds me of John Nash... and suggests not just autism but schizophrenia.

How many here have read "Operators and Things" ???

If you haven't, try to get a copy.
Rereading Adventures alongside Ponerology, I realized Nash matched EVERY description of a schizoidal psychopath: poor parent, no conscience, odd, intelligent, psychotic state misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. Perhaps autism is a different word for schizoidiam, like you suggest in your recent article. (and if thimerosol is a factor, perhaps it is a drug-induced characteropathy matching schizoidia)
 
Laura said:
Shar said:
I don't know if this has been mentioned, there was an article in the local paper today, picked up from elsewhere on the net like here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22vatech.html?hp

But I thought this excerpt was kind of odd:

"In his junior year, Mr. Cho told his then-roommates that he had a girlfriend. Her name was Jelly. She was a supermodel who lived in outer space and traveled by spaceship, and she existed only in the dimension of his imagination.

When Andy Koch, one of his roommates, returned to their suite one day, Mr. Cho shooed him away. He told him Jelly was there. He said she called him Spanky. SpankyJelly became his instant-message screen name."

What was going on in his head and better still, how did it get there???
Hmmm... that reminds me of John Nash... and suggests not just autism but schizophrenia.

How many here have read "Operators and Things" ???

If you haven't, try to get a copy.
The book "Operators and Things" struck me on two levels. The first level is how most people will read the book, which is as a story of mental illness and the struggle of one individual to cure themselves.

I read it on a different level. I read the book allowing myself to presume that what she experienced was in fact "true", and really did happen to her. She really was in contact with these entities that were in control of people and used techniques that don't make sense to us. (Just exactly why she was, at that period, able to perceive all of this, is not clear...)

So perhaps he really did have a "girlfriend from outer space". After all, some of the stuff I have read on cassiopaea.org is pretty far out there as well... ;) It would explain how this conditioning might come to be.
 
rs said:
I read it on a different level. I read the book allowing myself to presume that what she experienced was in fact "true", and really did happen to her. She really was in contact with these entities that were in control of people and used techniques that don't make sense to us. (Just exactly why she was, at that period, able to perceive all of this, is not clear...)

So perhaps he really did have a "girlfriend from outer space". After all, some of the stuff I have read on cassiopaea.org is pretty far out there as well... ;) It would explain how this conditioning might come to be.
I read it and got a similar impression. She had for whatever reason, the ability to "see" the STS "men at work" through her own filters.
 
rs said:
I read it on a different level. I read the book allowing myself to presume that what she experienced was in fact "true", and really did happen to her. She really was in contact with these entities that were in control of people and used techniques that don't make sense to us. (Just exactly why she was, at that period, able to perceive all of this, is not clear...)
Actually, I read it the same way - I could see how everything she described could actually be very true - and it is an incredibly fascinating read.
 
anart said:
Actually, I read it the same way - I could see how everything she described could actually be very true - and it is an incredibly fascinating read.
I add my "me too" reply. Somehow I didn't see it as a description of a sick mind, but as a description of 4STS influence dynamics. All those new age "gurus" who see gray dudes in their bathrooms probably go through a similar procedure.
 
I agree, too.

I also think someone should make a movie out of Operators and Things. I think it would make a great film.

Keit said:
anart said:
Actually, I read it the same way - I could see how everything she described could actually be very true - and it is an incredibly fascinating read.
I add my "me too" reply. Somehow I didn't see it as a description of a sick mind, but as a description of 4STS influence dynamics. All those new age "gurus" who see gray dudes in their bathrooms probably go through a similar procedure.
 
Back
Top Bottom