Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine
- Thread starter bjorb
- Start date
Well, since everyone is propaganda today, so am I...
За 10 дней контрнаступления ВСУ потеряли 2% своих наступательных сил
Elisasheva
Jedi
In which case I'd know not to waste any further time or energy.
ready with the popcorn? 
Simplicius has a good break down of Putin's talk to war correspondents and bloggers, where Putin admits a number of things and also reveals and addresses a number of things.
simplicius76.substack.com
Putin Invites Top Russian Correspondents For Candid War Q&A + SitRep Updates
One of the most interesting updates today was a televised press conference Putin held with the top Russian frontline correspondents, many of them familiar names and faces from whom I and other analysts take daily reports. Guys like Poddubny, Pegov of Wargonzo, Sladkov, Murad Gazdiev, and even...
simplicius76.substack.com
Putin on the topic of history of Ukraine:
This story actually reminds me a lot about creation of Yugoslavia, where many borders were created, just like in Soviet Union, quite artificially, which just like in Ukraine, ended up with several wars. It's like some force was at the same time acting against Russia and Serbia in the same way.
Vladimir Putin: So, what is the point of our actions? We will have to take two steps from the centre of the field. After all, we wanted and still want to have the best possible relations with all our neighbours after the collapse of the Soviet Union. This is what we are doing. We have accepted that what happened, happened, and now we must live with it.
And you know, I’ve already said that, no secret here, we did offer every option to our Western partners, as I used to call them, we thought we were one of them, we wanted to be in the family of so-called civilised nations. I reached out to NATO suggesting that we look into that possibility, but we were quickly shown the door; they didn't even bother to consider it. I also suggested creating a shared missile defence system.
We are aware that the events of the 1990s – early 2000s stem from a bitter historical legacy in the Caucasus, for instance. Who were we fighting there? Mostly, Al-Qaeda. And what did our “partners” do? They supported them by providing financial, information, political and even military support. They did not give a damn about the fact that they were helping Al-Qaeda as long as they were able to rock our boat. Everything they did fit the paradigm of rocking Russia. We left no stone unturned in our efforts and finally agreed that NATO would not be expanded. We came up with every option we could. Still no. Why? It is just because the country is too big: no one needs a country that big and with such great potential in Europe. Everyone tries their hand at gradually breaking Russia into pieces.
Ukraine is part of the effort to destabilise Russia. By and large, this should have been kept in mind when decisions were made on breaking the Soviet Union up. But then, apparently, it was expected that our profound relations would be decisive. But due to a number of historical, economic and political circumstances the situation took a different path. We tried everything on this path as well. In fact, we have, for decades, if not fed, but sustained their economy – you are aware of this, since I have written and talked about it – with cheap energy, other things, loans and so on. To no avail. How did it end eventually? They started killing our supporters in the streets and eventually staged a coup d’etat.
Look, this is not the first coup. How did Yushchenko come to power in Ukraine? Was it as a result of a legitimate procedure? Do you want me to show you how he came to power? We are aware of it. They came up with a third round of elections. What was that about? This was not enshrined in the Constitution. It was a coup, but at least a relatively peaceful one. And we did communicate with them. I went there and they came to us, no problem. But eventually, they pushed it to a bloody coup. That is, it became obvious that we were not given any chance to build normal relations with our neighbours and the fraternal Ukrainian people. Not a single chance.
Then they pulled themselves together, and events immediately started unfolding in the southeast, in Donbass – after the coup d’état, they realised that we would not be able to just leave Crimea – we simply could not leave it, this was impossible, it would have been a betrayal on our part. But we didn’t touch Donbass. Yes, our volunteers were there, but the Russian state had nothing to do with it at all – I assure you of this – none at all. I’m perfectly open and honest – we had nothing to do with it, our involvement was zero. Yes, there were people from Russia there. They tried to support the local population and so on.
Eventually, we were compelled to act in defence of these people. We were simply compelled to do this. Nine years! We genuinely tried to agree – difficult as it was – on somehow keeping Ukraine’s southeast as part of the country, we were sincerely working for this. Now we know that our so called partners simply cheated us – they swindled us, as people say. They never planned to fulfil any of the agreements, as it turned out, and so it all came to the current situation.
Moreover, they put bastards like Bandera on a pedestal. They don’t want communism. Fine, who wants that today? They are throwing the founder of Ukraine – Lenin – off his pedestal. Okay, this is up to them, but they are putting Bandera up there instead, and he is a fascist. I am totally surprised at how a person with Jewish blood, the head of the state of Ukraine, can support neo-Nazis. It simply beats me. After they basically annihilated the civilian Jewish population, Bandera and his supporters have been elevated to the rank of national heroes. Now they are marching with those posters. So, we will never accept historically what is happening there.
We continuously raised this issue during our negotiations, including in Istanbul. And in response, we were asked, “We don’t have anything to do with neo-Nazis, what do you want from us?” We at least want certain restrictions to be introduced into the law. Incidentally, on the whole, we also agreed on this during that round of talks – before our troops moved away from Kiev because afterwards they threw all our agreements away.
Demilitarisation. We are dealing with this gradually, methodically. What are the Armed Forces of Ukraine fighting with? Do they produce Leopards or Bradleys or the F-16s they haven’t received yet? They don’t produce a thing. The Ukrainian defence industry will soon cease to exist altogether. What do they produce? Ammunition is delivered, equipment is delivered and weapons are delivered – everything is delivered. You won't live long like that, you won't last. So, the issue of demilitarisation is raised in very practical terms.
The same applies to protecting people in Donbass. Yes, unfortunately, the shelling continues, and everything else too. But overall we will be working towards this methodically and we will resolve this. I am sure we will resolve it.
So, by and large, our principles and thus, our goals have not changed since the beginning of the operation. There has been no change.
(...)
Vladimir Putin: With regard to “what Ukraine are they talking about,” Ukraine, such as it may be, does exist and we must treat it with respect. However, this does not mean that this is a reason for us being treated without respect. That is what it is about.
If some of the people residing in these territories believe that they want to live in a separate and independent state, their preference must be treated with respect. The only question is why they should live at our expense and in our historical territories? If they want to live in our historical territories, then they should influence their political leadership so that it establishes proper relations with Russia and no one poses a threat to us from these territories. This is the issue. This is what the issue is all about.
I had multiple arguments with Belarus, Lukashenko. Clearly, the president of a country, in this case Belarus, defends his interests as he sees fit, in a consistent and tough manner. We had disputes. But did it ever occur to anyone to start a conflict with Belarus? No one would ever have thought about starting a conflict with Ukraine if we had normal relations as persons. There is not even a need for a Union State. But what they did there was they created an anti-Russia. They created it as a basis underlying their own existence. They created the anti-Russia and began to strengthen it. This is the problem.
There is a NATO issue as well. After all, when Ukraine gained independence, the Declaration of Independence explicitly stated that Ukraine was a neutral state. Who was it that, in 2008, when things were just fine with no Crimean events in sight, suddenly said they wanted to join NATO, and NATO opened its doors to them, declaring at the summit in Bucharest that NATO’s doors were open to Ukraine?
Not only did they cheat everyone when they said NATO would not expand to the east, but they planned to have our historical territories with a Russian-speaking population join NATO. This is totally out of line, is it not? It is. They are aware that they are creating a threat to us, but they are still working to this end despite our attempts to establish proper relations. This is the problem.
As for those who want to feel Ukrainian and live in an independent state, for God’s sake, do what you want. It is necessary to treat this with respect, but then don’t create a threat for us.
Anatoly Sobchak was right in what he said in his time. People from various political circles have different attitudes towards him, but he was a clever man. I am one hundred percent sure about this because I worked with him for a long time. He said with good reason, “If you want to leave, leave, but take only what you brought here.” Meanwhile, in 1645 or 1654, Ukraine did not exist at all. There are letters kept in the archives. People wrote to Warsaw: “We, the Russian Orthodox people, demand that our rights be observed.” The same people also wrote to Moscow: “We, the Russian Orthodox people, ask you to accept us into Russian Tsardom.” Do you understand this?
Yes, gradually they began to build up lands whereas we were giving it away. For some reason, Vladimir Lenin decided to give up the entire Black Sea Region. Why on earth did he do this? In strictly historical terms, these are Russian lands. Of course, there was nothing linked with Ukraine there, nothing at all. Ukraine really only appeared in 1922, and this fact was sealed in the Constitution. Huge Russian territories were given away there – just for nothing. And, as I mentioned, I have read papers and letters from the archives. They made a decision at first, I think at the congress or a Politbureau meeting about one republic. What was the name? I think, the Krivoy Rog Republic, right?
Remark: The Donetsk Republic.
Vladimir Putin: The Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Republic. Yes, it was supposed to be part of the RSFSR. Then the Bolsheviks came from these lands and said, “Why are you leaving us with these villagers?” That is, with the peasants that were considered petty bourgeois. Then again, they resumed the discussion on where to transfer Donbass, this Donetsk-Krivoy Rog Republic. The people who came from Donbass said: “Why? It has already been decided that we are part of Russia?” They wrote “Mother Russia.” Lenin told them, “It is necessary to reconsider this decision.” So they reconsidered it on their own terms.
Did they go crazy altogether? Who asked the people about this? Was there some referendum or a plebiscite? What was it all about? Okay, they first transferred some territory there and then they separated it. I’m not sure, but I don’t think this ever happened in history before. Okay, now we have to live in this paradigm. But on top of that, they started creating an “anti-Russia” there, creating threats to us. But people do not want to live like that, to live there. They are reaching out towards us. So, what are we supposed to do? Dump these people or what? So, this is the result we have.
As for Ukraine, what Ukraine are you talking about? There was nothing at all there, there was no Ukraine. Ukraine appeared in 1922, as I said. Now the grateful descendants are smashing monuments to Lenin, the founder of Ukraine.
Sergei Zenin: These people were waiting for us, and they consider it Russia.
Vladimir Putin: Yes, of course.
Meeting with war correspondents
The President met with war correspondents at the Kremlin.en.kremlin.ru
This story actually reminds me a lot about creation of Yugoslavia, where many borders were created, just like in Soviet Union, quite artificially, which just like in Ukraine, ended up with several wars. It's like some force was at the same time acting against Russia and Serbia in the same way.
Putin on the topic of finding good people in society and helping them rise to the top:
Semyon Pegov: Unfortunately, the existing bureaucratic system is set up in such a way that those who are good at serving on the parquet floor and are able to play up to their superiors in time are the ones who rise up the career ladder. But now there are new Rokossovskys being forged at the front, new talented guys. By the way, a big hello to you from the Donbass commanders, from Somali, from OBTF [separate battalion tactical formation] Kaskad, from Sparta, but this is not only about them.
There are a lot of talented people now, good daring guys, but the system prevents them from rising the top. How can we resolve this issue so that we get new gems in our military affairs and in the art of war? And there are some, believe me.
Vladimir Putin: As for staffing, this is the first part of the story. It is a very important question. Before the special military operation, of course, as in any government agency, there were a lot of carpet knights. You know, before the pandemic, there was only one situation in healthcare, but as soon as the pandemic started, there were people who could be equated with military personnel, although they were civilians. We know when people fearlessly entered these dangerous zones not knowing how this would end for them. The same is in the army environment: the special military operation was initiated and they quickly began to realise that carpet knights, and there are more than enough of them in any army in the world under peacetime conditions everywhere, are ineffective, to put it mildly.
On the other hand, and you are absolutely right here, Mr Pegov, there started appearing people who seemed to be in the shadows – they were not visible and not heard, but it turned out that they were very effective and in great demand. Unfortunately, such people are the first to go, because they do not spare themselves – that is the trouble.
Nevertheless, we must certainly… I hope that this does happen and will continue to happen. We have to watch it. I will tell you why: because we are of the same mind on this issue. I fully share this position, completely and utterly. Such people should be sought out – sought out and helped to rise to the top, trained, promoted and trusted more.
Of course, we need to look for people like that. There are many of them, you are absolutely right. The Defence Minister and the Chief of General Staff completely share my position, I have mentioned this issue many times, and they say: “Of course, we must do this.” You are right in saying that, just like in any ministry, they have a multi-layered bureaucracy. Certainly, we need to create social mobility mechanisms, including those that locate such people and elevate them to the required level in the army and society.
I will think about this, and I suggest that you think about it as well: there is nothing special about this. We are not discussing any specialised issues linked with military science; this amounts to purely administrative decisions. If you have any ideas, feel free to suggest them. All right? This is quite correct.
Meeting with war correspondents
The President met with war correspondents at the Kremlin.
The largest nuclear power plant in Europe, Energodar, now more accessible from the right bank of the Dnepre river. The ground does not support tanks, but UAF infantry might do in a couple of weeks. Image from video:
Last year UAF tried to invade over the lake created by the dam, that was destroyed in early June, but with the dam gone, the river is only a few hundred meters wide. UAF control over the nuclear power plant is what NATO would like to see, judging from the attempts last Autumn. Now, if NATO/US can support gradual bombing a dam with 300 HIMARS shells, where is the limit?
Last year UAF tried to invade over the lake created by the dam, that was destroyed in early June, but with the dam gone, the river is only a few hundred meters wide. UAF control over the nuclear power plant is what NATO would like to see, judging from the attempts last Autumn. Now, if NATO/US can support gradual bombing a dam with 300 HIMARS shells, where is the limit?
This is long, but I found it quite interesting. Scott Ritter talks to the Duran having recently returned from a tour of Russia with his daughter. He is more convinced than ever that Russian society understands what they are fighting for. The strength of the economy in the face of sanctions is surprising.
As usual though, Scott is best when talking about what he knows in depth - warfare. He describes in detail the issues with Western military hardware - integrating it and training people to use it. This is a section of the interview for the technically inclined, the mechanics and engineers. He still thinks the AFU are going to be defeated this year. A lot of his tentative predictions are similar to the direction of events that Putin hinted at in his recent press conference.
The EU follows the US lead and denies responsibility. The EU countries are also okay with extraterritorial proxi-wars guided by the US policy needs. Are changes on the way?
Just checking how the EU uses sanctions
Here is an EU sanctions map, it is interactive in the original, and below the map there are documents. A screenshot shows at the time of posting:
Ukraine is on the list, because of the areas and people that have seceded from Ukraine, not because of not allowing Russian language, killing their own civilians, bombing a hydroelectric dam, shelling a nuclear power plant, these initiatives are sanctioned by the EU.
EU sanction policies, and double standards
Collins has:
When have we heard that the EU bureaucrats do anything to oppose the US policies they allegedly do not agree with? Why they have no sanctions then agains the US?
For all practical purposes, the EU does the work of a military alliance, and that is not a problem for Borrell who must think that political conditions in other countries should correspond to EU specifications.
Just checking how the EU uses sanctions
Here is an EU sanctions map, it is interactive in the original, and below the map there are documents. A screenshot shows at the time of posting:
Ukraine is on the list, because of the areas and people that have seceded from Ukraine, not because of not allowing Russian language, killing their own civilians, bombing a hydroelectric dam, shelling a nuclear power plant, these initiatives are sanctioned by the EU.EU sanction policies, and double standards
Collins has:
The EU sanctions injustices as long it is perceived as a good idea according to "values". A map of the world with countries the EU sanctions (approve)s but which do the same or much worse than countries they put sanctions on would be a map of EU double standards. Which countries do you think would show up?
A good selection of the activity of ZALA Lancet drones, but the final comment is clearly lame.
Russian_drone_has_destroyed_over_250_targets!_Why_is_this_happening
Хорошая подборка деятельности дронов ZALA Ланцет, вот только финал комментария явно захромал.
Crimean air defenses have shot down six drones, while three others were disabled by using signal-jamming equipment.
www.rt.com
15 Jun, 202
Crimea attacked by drones – governor
Air defenses have shot down several drones over Russia’s Crimea, the regional governor has said
