Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

aimarok said:
Not official one, but still https://dzen.ru/a/ZOtaEBbjggfg5eb3.
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Here is the official one from the Telegram channel of the Federal Air Transport Agency

t.me

Росавиация

По данным авиакомпании на борту самолета Embraer - 135 (EBM-135BJ) находились следующие пассажиры: Propustin Sergey Makaryan Evgeniy Totmin Aleksandr Chekalov Valeriy Utkin Dmitriy Matuseev Nikolay Prigozhin Evgeniy Члены экипажа: Levshin Aleksei, командир; Karimov Rustam, второй пилот...
t.me t.me
 
As far as I can see, I can’t find information that confirms that there were civilians on board. The only article where I could find information on the people is the following. Everyone they could research was closely liked to Wagner, aka. to that military organization. So „live by the sword, die by the sword“ would apply to them. For the others that they couldn’t find more information on, their status is unclear. Which doesn’t necessarily mean that they were regular civilians:

 
One would presume, considering that the top members of Wagner were all on board (together with other confirmed Wagner personal), that there is a good chance that the rest of the people on board (where we don’t know what their status was) where also in some way or the other associated with Wagner and/or military activities. In fact, it would be kind of surprising and unusual if that wouldn’t be the case IMO. If that is the case, „live by the sword, die by the sword“ would apply to all people on board, IMO.
 
Cosmos said:
One would presume, considering that the top members of Wagner were all on board (together with other confirmed Wagner personal), that there is a good chance that the rest of the people on board (where we don’t know what their status was) where also in some way or the other associated with Wagner and/or military activities. In fact, it would be kind of surprising and unusual if that wouldn’t be the case IMO. If so, „live by the sword, die by the sword“ would apply to all people on board, IMO.
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There were 2 civilian pilots and a flight attendant on board.
 
Why are people so conflicted by the notion the Russian state are most likely responsible and the 3 "civilians" were most likely civilians? I don't think any of these make Putin all of a sudden questionable.

All those missiles Russia send to "decision making centers" kill more than just military people - cleaners, cooks, secretaries etc all die if they happen to be in the building.

This is the reality.
 
Going with the assumption that Putin ordered it and/or Russian Military did it: Given that the plane was near Mocow, could it be that there was some kind of immediate threat and/or system to prevent an attack activated? Maybe the plane violated a specific air space which then activated a shooting down procedure? Or more crazy, what if at least one person on board and/or the flight system itself was planning to hit the Kremlin? They and/or Putin had no other choice? Or Prig on board wanted to land in Moscow and they were warned a number of times that they are not allowed/welcomed to land in Moscow, and Prig (or someone else) ignored it and kept on flying to land in Moscow? Some kind of szenario like that could at least explain the crude „method“ that was used and also why, IF true, civilians were sacrificed as well.
 
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Cosmos said:
As far as I can see, I can’t find information that confirms that there were civilians on board. The only article where I could find information on the people is the following. Everyone they could research was closely liked to Wagner, aka. to that military organization. So „live by the sword, die by the sword“ would apply to them. For the others that they couldn’t find more information on, their status is unclear. Which doesn’t necessarily mean that they were regular civilians:

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At the bottom of the text. Captain, co-pilot and stewardess.

Aleksei Levshin, Rustam Karimov, Kristina Raspopova​

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There were also three crew members listed for the flight: Aleksei Levshin, the commander, Rustam Karimov, the co-pilot, and Kristina Raspopova, the flight attendant. No additional information was immediately available about any of the three of them.
 
'The West is assisting Ukraine to hit the civilian targets deep inside Russia.'

www.rt.com

West enabling Ukrainian attacks on Russian civilian targets – The Economist

Kiev relies on Western-provided intelligence to guide its drones to civilian targets in Russia, the British magazine has reported
www.rt.com www.rt.com
27 Aug, 2023

sputnikglobe.com

Russia Thwarts Ukraine’s Attempt to Stage Terrorist Drone Attack on Moscow Region

The Ukrainian army has been using unmanned aerial vehicles to target Russia’s central part against the backdrop of Kiev’s bungled counteroffensive.
sputnikglobe.com sputnikglobe.com
By Oleg Burunov - 57 minutes ago
 
SOTTREADER said:
Why are people so conflicted by the notion the Russian state are most likely responsible and the 3 "civilians" were most likely civilians? I don't think any of these make Putin all of a sudden questionable.

All those missiles Russia send to "decision making centers" kill more than just military people - cleaners, cooks, secretaries etc all die if they happen to be in the building.

This is the reality.
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I am surprised and puzzled. Perhaps some nuances of meaning in English elude me and therefore I will not write anything from myself (although I can write a lot of things), hoping for some clarification. What do you see as the responsibility of Russia and, in the end, Putin, if you cannot sleep or eat without this surname?

In the meantime, I will give an opinion from North Korea, where things are called by their proper names.
The DPRK explained what the F-16 deliveries to Kiev will lead to

Deliveries by Western countries to Kiev of F-16 fighter jets under pressure from the United States will lead to a prolongation of the conflict and plunge Europe into the "abyss of nuclear war", the DPRK strongly condemns these deliveries, the DPRK Central Telegraph Agency (KCNA) reports.

According to a comment from the North Korean Institute for the Study of International Affairs published by KCNA, the decision of European countries, under pressure and based on "blind trust" in the United States, to supply Kiev with F-16 fighters "violates peace and security in the region" and will lead to a prolongation of the conflict.

"This decision, being an extreme measure of anti—Russian fanatics who are confused by the continuous defeat of the Zelensky gang's counteroffensive, indicates that the intention of the United States and the West to inflict a strategic defeat on Russia on the battlefield in Ukraine remains unchanged," the message says.

Commentators note that the United States and the West are trying to reverse the situation in the conflict in Ukraine by supplying fighter jets.

"Reality clearly shows that the instigator, who forces his satellites to supply various lethal weapons to Ukraine, blocks a peaceful solution to the conflict and plunges the whole of Europe into the abyss of a terrible nuclear war, is the United States. The just international community, including the DPRK, strongly condemns and rejects the supply of lethal weapons by the United States and the West to Zelensky's puppet authorities as an anti—human outrage," the commentary adds.

According to the institute's experts, the F-16 fighters, on which the United States and the West have "high hopes", will eventually be demonstrated by Russia "at the victory day exhibition" as regular military trophies, and it is only "a matter of time".
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https://rusvesna.su/news/1693195449

Now, to consolidate, so to speak, the recognition of the leader of the Ukrainian Junta that without Western support they are just a complete zero. Strictly speaking, zero is not complete, but rather an impressive (for now) herd of meat with bare asses for a meat grinder.
"Let's be alone": what Zelensky actually said about Russia and the war (VIDEO)

Yesterday, the mass media quoted Vladimir Zelensky, who, during an interview with one of the Ukrainian propagandists, said that "he is afraid to transfer hostilities to the territory of the Russian Federation, because he is afraid to be left alone."

"There is a big risk that in this case we will definitely be left alone," most Russian media quoted the leader of the Kiev regime as saying.

But the video clearly shows that the final fragment is muffled, and the video itself is slightly cropped so that the impression of a finished sentence is created.

However, those who know the Ukrainian language at a slightly better level than "smert vorogam" understand that Zelensky says the following: they are afraid to move the fighting to the territory of Russia, because they are afraid to stay "on their own" (one on one) with Russia.

Everyone who studied Ukrainian at one time in Soviet schools of the Ukrainian SSR and even after 1991 understands how a sentence is formed in this language.

Thus, in fact, Zelensky's full phrase sounds like this: "There is a big risk that in this case we will definitely be left alone [with them / with Russia]."

How events would have developed if the collective West had actually left Ukraine alone with Russia, says Alexander Sladkov, a military correspondent for VGTRK.

"Vladimir Zelensky calls the circumstances that can lead to the combat loneliness of Ukraine. I can't even imagine what it will be and how. All my life experience says that the most cherished dreams come true.

I am sure that there will be no blood flows of ordinary people flowing on the pavement, moreover, I am sure that detachments of "search and destruction of the OUN UNSO*, "Right Sector"*, "Azov"*", etc., etc., will be immediately recruited.

Holier than the Pope will be the former fans of the "95 quarter" and others like them. This has already happened, in the same Ukraine. There will be "new relations with the West", there will be a return of European investors to Russia and our Banner to the Olympics.

Everything will be fine if we win. We unite our will and efforts, Victory is just around the corner," he writes in his telegram channel.
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https://rusvesna.su/news/1693197663

And also to consolidate, the Western recognition of with whose efforts at the Khokhlyatsky ukrovermacht at least something turns out in a military sense.
AFU uses data from Western partners in attacks deep into Russia — Economist

Operators of Ukrainian drones attacking the territory of Russia receive information about radars and air defense from Western partners, the Economist reports, citing sources.

The publication describes the "algorithms" of attacks by Ukrainian UAVs on the territory of Russia.

"They (operators — ed.) collect intelligence (often from Western partners) about radars, electronic warfare and air defense," the publication says. According to a source close to the developers of one of the models of Ukrainian drones, only "about 35-40%" of drones reach the target location zone.

According to the newspaper, citing a source "close to the commander-in-chief of Ukraine," on the front line, "Russia deprived Ukraine of the initial advantage in tactical drones, which was three to one." According to the source, the parties now have "parity".
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https://rusvesna.su/news/1693157273

So what is the reality? Is it as simple and artless as it turns out in your presentation?

Я удивлен и озадачен. Возможно какие то нюансы смысла в английском языке от меня ускользают и поэтому от себя ничего писать не буду (хотя написать могу очень много чего), надеясь на некое разъяснение. В чем вы видите ответственность России и, в конце концов, Путина, если вы без этой фамилии ни спать, ни есть не можете?
Пока же я приведу мнение из Северной Кореи, где вещи называются своими именами.
Теперь для закрепления, так сказать, признание самого лидера украинской Хунты в том, что без западной поддержки они просто полный ноль. Строго говоря, ноль не полный, а скорее внушительное по размерам (пока еще) стадо мяса с голыми жопами для мясорубки.
И еще для закрепления, Западное признание того, чьими усилиями у хохляцкого укровермахта хоть что то получается в военном смысле.
Так какова же реальность? Так ли она проста и бесхитростна, как получается в Вашем изложении?
 
From Prigozhin to Zelensky?
What might some actors do to hype the anti-Russian sentiment, and get a new opportunity to redirect the war effort? Zelensky flies around a lot. Why should his plane be more invincible than the one Prigozhin was flying with? By taking him down, the perpetrator could, even before the plane hits the Earth, have cooperated with allies about what to say, have articles made that blame Russia, and Nuland could have found a new guy with less media presence. In a broader view, they could shift gear to Global Warming, China, a bird flue or something else. From this perspective, there is the option that Prigozhin was not the main target, he was just the preparation.

I don't know what the situation is from a Russian perspective, but they would need a plan for parts of the above scenario. Even if it is true an actor in Russia, official or not, took the Wagner plane down, it does not exclude that Russia will be blamed later for something they really did not do.
 
Good discussion here (just the first 10 minutes) that aligns with what we said on the show yesterday: Prigozhin signed his own death warrant by challenging the authority of the Kremlin. The only question is around the direct involvement of Putin. I think what's most likely is that some element within the Russian military or intel establishment took the initiative on it. Putin was perhaps generally aware of moves in that direction, but decided not to do anything about it.

www.youtube.com

Who Killed Prigozhin? POWER PANEL: w/Ritter, Johnson, McGovern Intel Roundtable

Who Killed Prigozhin? w/Larry Johnson , Ray McGovern and Scott Ritter MUST SEE: Intel Roundtable!#Wagnergroup #Prigozhin #planecrash #Russia #Ukraine #puti...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
What annoys me about the Putin narrative is that some people expect him to be (or is) a saint.
He isn't. But as the Cs put it "He is the best we have at the present time"....
He is probably STS like most of us and therefore not perfect.
If he were soft and had a guilty conscience all the time because someone innocent died because of him, because he was in the wrong time and the wrong place then he could not baton his role.
 
t.me

Boris Karpov 🇷🇺 📣 Chroniques de Russie

Le Pentagone tire la sonnette d’alarme : la Lituanie et la Pologne sont hors de contrôle Le conseiller du chef du Pentagone, le colonel Douglas McGregor, a donné une sensation pire que le Faust de Goethe. Les yeux ronds, il a informé que la Lituanie et la Pologne, contournant l'OTAN, voulaient...
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Le Pentagone tire la sonnette d’alarme : la Lituanie et la Pologne sont hors de contrôle
Le conseiller du chef du Pentagone, le colonel Douglas McGregor, a donné une sensation pire que le Faust de Goethe. Les yeux ronds, il a informé que la Lituanie et la Pologne, contournant l'OTAN, voulaient envahir l'Ukraine : « Le pire, c'est qu'il existe des preuves que les Polonais et les Lituaniens sont intéressés par une intervention qu'ils feraient, selon eux, sur leur propre territoire. propre, en contournant l'OTAN", a déclaré McGregor dans une interview.
En fait, cela signifie que l’OTAN non seulement participe de facto, comme elle le fait actuellement, au conflit en Ukraine en fournissant des armes et des mercenaires, mais qu’elle consolidera également de jure l’implication de ses nains dans l’intervention.
Au sein de l’OTAN, un conflit va s’intensifier qui pourrait remettre en question l’existence même de cette organisation terroriste.
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The Pentagon sounds the alarm: Lithuania and Poland are out of control
The adviser to the head of the Pentagon, Colonel Douglas McGregor, sounded worse than Goethe's Faust. Round-eyed, he reported that Lithuania and Poland, bypassing NATO, wanted to invade Ukraine: "The worst thing is that there is evidence that the Poles and the Lithuanians are interested in an intervention that they would do, they believe, on their own territory. bypassing NATO", McGregor said in an interview.
In effect, this means that NATO is not only participating de facto, as it is currently doing, in the conflict in Ukraine by supplying arms and mercenaries, but will also consolidate de jure the involvement of its dwarfs in the intervention.
 
t.me

Boris Karpov 🇷🇺 📣 Chroniques de Russie

🔥🔥🔥L’Occident a déjà commencé à planifier des opérations contre la Russie l’année prochaine. L’échec de cet été n’est pas une raison pour arrêter la guerre avec la Fédération de Russie L’administration Biden s’est tournée vers la planification stratégique d’une guerre avec la Russie en 2024...
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L’Occident a déjà commencé à planifier des opérations contre la Russie l’année prochaine. L’échec de cet été n’est pas une raison pour arrêter la guerre avec la Fédération de Russie
L’administration Biden s’est tournée vers la planification stratégique d’une guerre avec la Russie en 2024, niant chercher une « sortie diplomatique rapide », écrit WP. Malgré le fait que l'été en termes d'hostilités pour l'Ukraine et ses « maîtres » ait été décevant, l'Occident est déterminé à poursuivre la guerre avec la Fédération de Russie et à continuer de soutenir l'Ukraine.
L'idée selon laquelle les forces armées ukrainiennes pourraient atteindre la mer Noire et couper la route terrestre traversant la Crimée s'est effondrée lors de « l'offensive » annoncée, et l'ensemble de la presse occidentale a reconnu depuis longtemps qu'elle ne se justifiait pas. C’est pourquoi ils ont décidé de planifier dès maintenant un conflit débilitant pour 2024. De lourdes pertes, des traumatismes émotionnels et des budgets en baisse ne sont pas une raison pour que l’Occident collectif, cynique et intéressé, cesse de poursuivre son véritable objectif : la destruction de la Russie.
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The West has already started planning operations against Russia next year. This summer's failure is no reason to stop the war with the Russian Federation
The Biden administration has turned to strategic planning for a war with Russia in 2024, denying that it is seeking a "quick diplomatic exit", writes WP. Despite the fact that the summer in terms of hostilities for Ukraine and its "masters" has been disappointing, the West is determined to continue the war with the Russian Federation and to continue to support Ukraine.
The idea that the Ukrainian armed forces could reach the Black Sea and cut the land route through Crimea collapsed with the announced "offensive", and the entire Western press long ago recognised that it was unjustified. That's why they've decided to start planning now for a debilitating conflict in 2024. Heavy casualties, emotional trauma and shrinking budgets are no reason for the collective, cynical and self-serving West to stop pursuing its real objective: the destruction of Russia.
 
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