Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

So this is basically them throwing a tantrum because Trump won the elections. I'm sure the Russians know that but what worries me is how effective these missiles are - if they are effective and can cause damage deep inside Russia, then I fully expect a robust Russian response... perhaps hitting military sites in other countries in Eastern Europe.

If the missiles are ineffective then nothing significant will happen.

In any case, I think something crazy will happen to try and disrupt the Trump inauguration and presidency.
 
SOTTREADER said:
So this is basically them throwing a tantrum because Trump won the elections. I'm sure the Russians know that but what worries me is how effective these missiles are - if they are effective and can cause damage deep inside Russia, then I fully expect a robust Russian response... perhaps hitting military sites in other countries in Eastern Europe.

If the missiles are ineffective then nothing significant will happen.

In any case, I think something crazy will happen to try and disrupt the Trump inauguration and presidency.
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Based on what I've read, they're not that effective. ATACMS have been used throughout the SMO in Ukraine, with hundreds of launches against Russian targets, and Russian Air Defense was capable of handling about 90% of them in 2024. The ATACMS missile is no Iskander.

Even the announcement is basically a NATO declaration of war on Russia, tho, based on what Putin said previously. And even one ATACMS getting through and causing damage in Moscow for instance would be a significant provocation, and would likely lead the Russians to target NATOs Intelligence/Surveillance/Reconnaissance infrastructure, or even targeting sites in Europe. I don't know if they'd go so far as to target sites in the US.

It's all pretty crazy! The Russians have been very careful to slowly grind away the NATO forces in Ukraine so far. That may change with this ATACMS announcement, based on Putin's warnings about responding to long-range missiles - he has also said that when a fight is clearly going to happen, it's best to punch first. So who knows at this point.
 
I am a non person living in the centre of the monetary news blackout : The City is broke and can't be fixed.
In fact the entire financial system of the West , which is in unaccountable hands that insure profits out of wars, and have done so for hundreds of years, when broke like they are today, are left with only war so that they can continue profiting . Today the vast majority of so called humans think that is all a joke.
Well...
" A fire broke out backstage in a theatre. The clown. came out to warn the public but they thought it was a joke.
He repeated the warning but the applause was even greater.
I think that's just how our world will come to an end : To general applause from those who believe it's all a joke ." [ Soren Kirkegaard }
You and I are living in a destruction that is fully orchestrated.
The heart of man is desperately wicked.
Today the senile in the White House , in obedience to the bankers , has unleashed the dogs of war.
What a difference a day makes.
 
iamthatis said:
Based on what I've read, they're not that effective. ATACMS have been used throughout the SMO in Ukraine, with hundreds of launches against Russian targets, and Russian Air Defense was capable of handling about 90% of them in 2024. The ATACMS missile is no Iskander.

Even the announcement is basically a NATO declaration of war on Russia, tho, based on what Putin said previously. And even one ATACMS getting through and causing damage in Moscow for instance would be a significant provocation, and would likely lead the Russians to target NATOs Intelligence/Surveillance/Reconnaissance infrastructure, or even targeting sites in Europe. I don't know if they'd go so far as to target sites in the US.

It's all pretty crazy! The Russians have been very careful to slowly grind away the NATO forces in Ukraine so far. That may change with this ATACMS announcement, based on Putin's warnings about responding to long-range missiles - he has also said that when a fight is clearly going to happen, it's best to punch first. So who knows at this point.
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Complementing what you have said, in addition to the fact that the impact of long-range missiles with reduced range has been less (they have hit Russian warehouses, ships and submarines in the Black Sea, but that will not change the course of the war) the Russians have increasingly learned to neutralize them and confront them in a better way,

I even remember those news where Strom Shadowns were used together with decoy missiles not mentioned in the aid packages to Ukraine, the warheads are not usually so huge in these weapons, around 250 kilos with the exception of 500 kilos in the case of some more advanced ones such as the Strom Shadown SCALP-EG, some of these missiles can use cluster munitions that could also be used against civilians to generate terror, it must also be taken into account that for their maximum range the Strom Shadown must be launched from airplanes which Ukraine does not have in abundance at the moment so the launches would be very limited,

finally it should be noted that the greater range The ATACMS together with other long-range missiles allows to attack various targets such as bases, airfields and weapons depots that were not previously available; to reach Moscow only the SCALP-EG can reach, but there is a but, that range of 560 kilometers is the radial range that is where the signal reaches, the effective range of this variant of Strom Shadown would be around 400 kilometers.

In any case, the important thing is that it would be an attack with the participation of NATO satellites.
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In past few months we could feel somethings happening „in the air“,something horrible.And now we see first step.

Obviously,west scum getting more and more desperate.They puppet is on his way out and they know that Trump will not follow their steps that much.To use marionette they throw everything they can.Their despair is growing and we can expect more these kind of actions.I think a lot more in the following days.

On the other side its just unbelievable how much patience have Russia.Its amazing how much they take into account in order to do as little damage as possible.Its gonna be very interesting how will Russia respond.

Anyway,if anyone thought this was awful until now,they better prepare well,because i think something special is comming.

Fasten your seat belt!
 
Alexander Mercouris had some thoughts about this, for what it's worth, I will share some of them here for consideration.

So why has Biden President Biden done this despite the strong advice of the Pentagon that this is not going to change the course of of the war, despite the strong advice of all sorts of us officials that as this crosses Russian red lines, it opens the way for counteraction by the Russians, putting potentially American and British and French and German lives at risk.

Well there is only one reason and it is the simple and overwhelming reason it is nothing to do with the Russians it has nothing to do with the Ukrainians it has nothing to do with the North Koreans or any of the other reasons we are being told:

it is because President Biden wants to make life as difficult as possible for his successor Donald Trump.

He is aware that Donald Trump is looking for ways to end the conflict in Ukraine that he has spoken out, or and some of the people in his team have spoken, out against further the funding and weapons supplies to Ukraine he seems interested in reopening some sort of dialogue with the Russians.

President Biden, Joe Biden, has had long history of antagonism towards Donald Trump. So do other Democrats. President Biden has given speeches which have spoken about Donald Trump in vivid and frankly apocalyptic terms and well, given the strength of his visceral feelings, given the depth of his anger, that the man that he so strongly opposed is now soon going to be inaugurated president of the United States, he has taken this decision basically in order to make president Trump's situation, his position, as complicated and as difficult as possible after Trump's inauguration on the 20th of January.

Now I understand that politics is a cynical and ruthless game that people do all kinds of things basically to put their political opponents in difficult and embarrassing positions but I do have to say that this particular example seems to me off the scale even by that standard.

To take a hostile action against a foreign power with which the United States finds itself in an adversary position - take a an act against that hostile power - which that hostile power has already defined as an act of War, when that particular hostile power possesses nuclear weapons on a scale even greater than the United States itself, and the military means to make the position of the United States more difficult around the world, and can also take steps that will put the lives of Americans and global stability at at risk, for what I am absolutely sure is a policy of making life as difficult as possible for a domestic political opponent -- well all I can say is that leaves me completely speechless.

It is something that I find beyond comprehension but there it is.

Now there's been much negative reaction from all sorts of people about some of the decisions that Donald Trump has made appointing various people to his administration and I'm not here to defend those appointments ...

... by the way I've tried to analyze them and explain them and to say why I think those appoint appointments or to be more precise attempted appointments have been made but to reiterate, I still think that despite the fact that many of these appointments are of people who I personally would not have appointed to the positions that Donald Trump is seeking to appoint them to and who I do not think are in any way suitable to occupy those positions ...

I still think that Donald Trump is an Improvement on Biden and I think this latest episode shows us why nothing that Donald Trump did at any point in his presidency to my mind was as reckless and as irresponsible and as dangerous as this latest decision that Biden has made.
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From
Biden greenlights ATACMS to hit Russia, spiting Trump. Russia missile strike targets Ukraine energy
or
rumble.com

Biden greenlights ATACMS to hit Russia, spiting Trump. Russia missile strike targets Ukraine energy

Biden greenlights ATACMS to hit Russia, spiting Trump. Russia missile strike targets Ukraine energy Topic 1372
rumble.com rumble.com
 
Breton said:
Alexander Mercouris had some thoughts about this, for what it's worth, I will share some of them here for consideration.


From
Biden greenlights ATACMS to hit Russia, spiting Trump. Russia missile strike targets Ukraine energy
or
rumble.com

Biden greenlights ATACMS to hit Russia, spiting Trump. Russia missile strike targets Ukraine energy

Biden greenlights ATACMS to hit Russia, spiting Trump. Russia missile strike targets Ukraine energy Topic 1372
rumble.com rumble.com
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Would the Pentagon actually let Biden make this declaration despite their opposition, tho? I find that hard to believe.
 
Well Donald Trump Junior has spoken out on behalf of his father and made it clear that those behind this decision wanted to "make sure they got World War 3 going before my father has a chance to create peace and save lives".

The Daily Express

Russia threatens UK with 'nuclear war by Christmas' in chilling WW3 warning​

Story by Emily Wright

1731988073630.png​

Western allies including Britain, France and the US, have taken a "big jump" towards a nuclear conflict by giving Ukraine permission to fire Western long-range missiles into Kremlin territory, a pro-Putin spokesperson, Sergey Markov, has said.

A regular Putin "mouthpiece", Markov warned that the shock move by US President Joe Biden could mean that Britons could be facing a Christmas in shelters. [MJF: What shelters? We haven't got any!]

The threat, in an interview on the BBC Radio 4's The World At One, was also echoed by President-Elect Donald Trump's son, Donald Trump Jnr, who suggested that those behind the move to approve Ukraine's use of the missiles wanted to "make sure they got World War 3 going before my father has a chance to create peace and save lives".

President Biden's move, however, has been welcomed by Ukraine, by senior UK defence sources and by many European leaders.

The move will allow Ukraine to fire US ATACM missiles, UK Storm Shadow missiles and French Scalp missiles into Kremlin territory.

Those in favour of the move have noted that the Kremlin and its mouthpieces in the state-controlled media and academia had threatened nuclear war every time the West had stepped up its support for Ukraine, including when it provided tanks, fighter jets and other sophisticated weapon systems.

However, Markov, currently the Director General of Russia's Institute for Political Studies, was convinced the move was different as it would mean that Western militaries would be directly involved in the conflict for the first time - Ukraine would require their assistance to use the precision guided missile systems.

Speaking to BBC Radio 4, he said: "My reaction [to the White House's decision] was awful, I couldn't sleep well because I am just afraid nuclear war is coming.

"This decision of United States, Great Britain and France is not a step towards nuclear war it is a big jump to nuclear war, nuclear catastrophe.

"It is a very dangerous decision. The point is these rocket-missiles cannot be fired by the Ukrainian army, technically.

"Because, these rocket-missiles need to have very good map of the Russian territory and only the US has this map, even Great Britain and France does not have this map."

1731988318405.png
The Four Wisemen?
​
Markov added that the targeting of the rocket-missiles cannot be done by the Ukrainian army as it requires satellite-intelligence that the country does not have - instead they will be targeted to Russian cities by American, British and French militaries, he argued.

"So, we regard this as the start of a direct war by Britain, America and France against Russia, another nuclear power.

"American rocket missiles against our territory. This is a clear escalation of the war."

Asked if Putin would use nuclear missiles in response, Mr Markov said 'not now' and said it was more likely that bases in eastern Europe could be hit by smaller, tactical nuclear missiles.

But he added: "I think Biden, Macron and Starmer want escalation which could lead to, from my understanding, in the worst scenario, the nuclear war happens before Christmas of this year.

"Probably you will not be able to say 'Merry Christmas' because you will stay in the hole trying to hide away [your] family from the nuclear catastrophe. It can develop very, very quickly."

The Independent

Kremlin responds after Biden approves Ukraine’s use of long-range missiles in Russia​

Story by Holly Patrick

Joe Biden's decision to approve the use of US-supplied longer-range missiles by Ukraine to strike inside Russia will "add fuel to the fire" in the conflict, a Kremlin spokesman has said.

1731988804297.png​

Dmitry Peskov repeated earlier warnings from Vladimir Putin, saying that any strikes on Russian soil using US weapons would be interpreted as direct Nato involvement.

Mr Peskov said Russia was only aware of the apparent decision by the Biden administration from reporting in Western media.

He said: "It is obvious that the outgoing administration in Washington intends to take steps and they have been talking about this, to continue adding fuel to the fire and provoking further escalation of tensions around this conflict."
 
SummerLite said:
Has this announcement by Biden come from an official source yet, the White House?
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More or less, although it is closer to "yes" since the UK and France have made similar statements, Trump has also come out to speak and asked Zelensky and Putin to meet to discuss peace and avoid a third world war.

It is the same old game where they test the red line drawn by Putin little by little and then rush to completely cross it by increasing the intensity of the attacks without informing the media that they have done so until much later.
Fools confuse Putin's calm in a delicate situation with weakness as always.

Once again Putin may limit the attack, but this time there could be more powerful bombs, attacks on NATO satellites, an escalation in the conflict by deploying more troops and equipment or tactical nuclear bombs, which nobody likes, least of all Putin who sees the Ukrainians as brothers and as Russian people.
In any case, it is cheap and "optimistic" speculation, as far as possible on my part, because reality often takes unexpected directions.
 
ApotheosisMMC. said:
Once again Putin may limit the attack, but this time there could be more powerful bombs, attacks on NATO satellites, an escalation in the conflict by deploying more troops and equipment or tactical nuclear bombs, which nobody likes, least of all Putin who sees the Ukrainians as brothers and as Russian people.
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I see no reason for Russia to use tactical nuclear weapons in response to this.

The most likely outcome is Russia limiting its response to Ukraine and waiting for Trump to come into office.

Somewhat likely is an assymetric response by supplying advanced weapons to the enemies of the US, such as Houthis or Iran.

Much less likely is a missile attack on targets in NATO countries that are involved in striking Russia.
 
This analyst thinks that if any long-range missiles are launched at Russia, it will be from Poland and/or Romania. In that case, the result would be that NATO sites in those countries will become the most likely Russian targets, not France and the UK.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1858672513292922921

Thoughts on Missile Strikes "Deep into Russia"

-ATACMS

ATACMS is a high-flying ballistic missile with a fixed trajectory. 200kg warhead; effective range <300km; previously shipped to Ukraine only in the cluster munition variety.The Russians have shot down far more than have hit targets. Of the last 100 or so shot down, the ratio has typically been in excess of 90%.

ATACMS is a mediocre, antiquated missile with limited effective range. It is FAR inferior to the Russian Iskander in every respect.

- Storm Shadow / SCALP-EGStorm

Shadow / SCALP achieved a handful of early successes in Ukraine, but has since been shot down by the hundreds. It has been what the old-timers in my neck of the woods call "easy pickins".

SCALP-EG is a subsonic, low-flying, maneuvering cruise missile. 450kg warhead, with ~500km range. BUT, to have any significant reach, it must be launched from an aircraft flying at high altitude. As with all air-launched cruise missiles, there is a direct correlation between the altitude at which the missile is launched, and its achievable range.

And this is where the big problem lies. When the launch aircraft rise to high altitude, they will light up all the Russian air defense radars across a broad swath of the front.

If you assume a very conservative 200km "kill radius" for Russian S-300 and S-400 missiles, virtually all of Ukraine east of the Dnieper is covered.

Of course, it must now be recognized that there is no longer any Ukrainian Air Force to speak of. It has given up the ghost, so to speak.

So the only practicable option is NATO aircraft flying out of Poland or Romania.

And those NATO pilots are going to have to launch from points considerably west of the Dnieper in order to stay out of the crosshairs of long-range Russian AD systems.

A vanguard operation to take out Russian air defenses is effectively out of the question. There will be no aerial refueling over Ukraine, nor any meaningful combat air patrol.

There is also negligible NATO air defense capability over Ukraine. The Russians are very likely to launch a significant number of fighters to oppose any cruise missile launches by NATO aircraft.

The Russians are also very likely to attack US/NATO ISR assets in the theater of battle.

Bottom line: I consider all this talk about "missile strikes deep into Russia" nothing but a chimera.

If the fools in the US/NATO do in fact attempt it to any appreciable degree, it may achieve some token triumphs, but its own losses will far outweigh those chimeric "victories".
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Edit: Per RT, Putin has updated the nuclear deterrence policy, stating that an attack by any member of the bloc will be considered an attack by the entire bloc, making the entire bloc legitimate targets. So that changes things.
 
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