Exactly. That is also my thinking. But what Andrei Martyanov is saying is that everything above ground was also destroyed. Which is not something that corresponds with that black and white video in which there are no big explosions on the surface.
Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine
- Thread starter bjorb
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Exactly. That is also my thinking. But what Andrei Martyanov is saying is that everything above ground was also destroyed. Which is not something that corresponds with that black and white video in which there are no big explosions on the surface.
I don’t think you necessarily need big explosions on the surface to destroy “everything“ above ground. We are talking about hypersonic missiles here that derive much if not most of their power from high speed and weight and not necessarily from explosives. Much like small comets or asteroids fragments hitting the earth’s surface (although in that specific case still quite a bit slower then that). So, a shockwave of it hitting could have already been enough to destroy “everything“ above ground. While probably not necessarily needing to destroy the buildings visibly all too much. I would presume you wouldn’t see any explosion there even though it was devastating. Also remember that the weapon came with 6 salvos of 6 individual projectiles (36 projectiles) all fairly close to each other. Which makes this A LOT more destructive.
msasa79
Jedi Master
Going with basic logic plus taking into account consistency of what Russians want and do to achieve that, it's rather easy to deduce that if NATO fired long-range missiles into Russia proper were to be established fact on the ground, then Russia most likely won't settle for anything less than a DMZ wide enough to keep those missiles from its territories, i.e. 500+ km from the borders which by quick inspection of the map basically means the whole of Ukraine.
Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it seems like a pretty basic logical conclusion based just on observation of what's been going on. Wouldn't such a thing cross some minds of the guys in the West?
In fact, I think the Russians hinted at exactly that on more than one occasion quite clearly. One would think that this should at least cross the minds of some people with brains in the west. It is pretty obvious. Maybe they don’t really mind if Russia either demands a demilitarized zone equivalent to those ranges or gets those territories under full control, because it further plays into their “Putin is the next Hitler swallowing up ever more territories, coming closer and closer to “civilized“ Europe“ nonsense?
Well, as you said, the warheads were probably designed to pinch through the surface like a needle and deliver most of the damage underground. If that was the case, then you wouldn't have a shockwave on the surface. And you need an explosion for a shockwave. No explosion, no shockwave, no big destruction on the surface. That corresponds to what we saw on the video.
officially, the weapons in use so far have a max range of 300kms. But yeah, lots of Ukr. territory as a buffer zone.
I think in this case it was essentially a kinetic weapon. Moving at that hypersonic speed, the impact of the projectiles would have caused significant and widespread damage surpassing the destructive force of TNT (per kg of weight), with little observable 'explosion'.
Accurate?
If Russia also wants a buffer zone that protects Belarus, then almost the whole of the West of Ukraine will be covered using 300km max range of the weapons as a guide from the Belarus border. One could imagine that Lukashenko would insist on that and that Russia would take that into consideration.
Hard to know if that claim of underground floors penetrated is true. It's possible I suppose. What I don't see is any hysteria among NATO types about the Russian strike, quite the opposite, they seem to be carrying on with their "Russia is bluffing" mantra.
Indeed. But what happens if Belarus gets invaded next? I'd say that scenario is on NATO's list of possibilities in advance of peace negotiations. Would give them added leverage.
Perhaps though it likely will bring even a greater headache to the West as it might trigger an even greater response. Having said that, I don't doubt that the West probably thinks it could be a great idea just as they have ignored the 'hazelnut' falling from the sky a few days ago.
Picture of a hazelnut flowering (catkin) and one can see where they got the idea for the name from.
Catkin means:
lilies
The Living Force
Soon we will have lots of new data maybe even some places providing proof of extent of underground destruction:
Putin Speech LIVE | Message To Trump As Russia Fires New Missile On Ukraine
Many other people too from the now millions of visitors reading Andrei Martyanov's blog, (me included) - took it literally, that the entire industrial plant disappeared turned into dust like the Twin Towers, when he stated: "Yuzhmash - is the name of the LARGE INDUSTRIAL PLANT that was hit is no more, it simply ceased to exist after the visit of Oreshnik. It used to be a colossal plant which had its own bus routes. There is nothing left there, only dust." Because he didn't state it explicitly.
Here is his BIO and as you can see all his books are highly rated on Amazon. Also he is a frequent consultant in several alt-media shows, see below.
Many people reading his blog raised the same question, where Andrei responded with:
Destruction was apparently underground. Oreshnik / Hazel Groove is like Kinzhal, a bunker buster missile. Factories in Ukraine are reportedly underground, otherwise Russia would see and bomb them. Here is French mathematician Jean-Marie Arnaudies proving underground destructive power of Russian hypersonics: archived article quoted in post.
Andrei is a STEM expert / essentially a military engineer and professional soldier, according to him. Scott Ritter agrees with him. And these two - Scott and Andrei are regularly giving consultation about military technology and related geopolitics based on their their careers and expert opinion to several alt-media people, more than listed below, who are looking for answers and build trust and conviction based on Scott-Andrei Intel. The following known alt-media people are repeatedly turning to the Scott-Andrei duo for military Intel:
1. Garland Nixon - info receiver, here is his speech at the United Nations Security Council 10/3/2023
2. Ania = Hazel Grove info - receiver
3. Larry Johnson = Hazel Grove info - receiver and distributor
4. Daniel Davis = Hazel Grove info - receiver
5. Nima = Hazel Grove info - receiver
Andrei was also interviewed by several other alt-media people.
