Questions about Polar Opposites

Re: Re: BORIS MOURAVIEFF: Gnosis

psychic_spy said:
Now i really wonder why would we bother about anyting romantically since we mostly project, device partners according to our beliefs and STS behaviours. What you told me now is a typical STS oriented behavior , both from my part and from his. I derived obsession from my feeling of entitlement to him ..i absolutely denied every objective idea that i don't play any particular role in his film of experience, at least not a meaningfull one. And he of course cut me off at the first sign of revolting and wanting more involvement or more expansion. It's true i saw an expansive aspect in this for i tried to eastablish a daily contact with him and he was relunctant to talk , even about hobbies, spirituality and things outside our relationship. He was relunctant to share ideas , and preferences ...why would someone do that when you actually need them too ?

Our biological programs can be strong, but there ARE other possibilities. See these threads, for example: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=20621.0 and http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=21030.0
 
Re: Re: BORIS MOURAVIEFF: Gnosis

Approaching Infinity said:
psychic_spy said:
I guess you're right in many accounts though this isn't easing my situation.

Well, an objective view of ourselves is rarely anything by 'uneasy'. In fact, it can be downright terrifying.


Oh yeah , that's really true but i'm willing to see the other side of the coin and i'm gratefull that you help me, few can do it. And everytime i try to make others aknowledge this side of their personal world they violently reject it but i want to keep an open mind and be happy to have such an opportunity. :)


I also think it was a projection after reading and taking account of your views and for a short while Victor tried to sustain that projection, being my boyfriend because this is what I so desperately wanted but it's far from what he wants ... :/. What baffled me is that he told me he never had a sweetheat and it's not even concerned about it though he frequents a dating site (?). Yes, you may say that he spots the ones he can engage into sexual encounters only though as far as i dated him he seemed rather withdrawn and unexperienced in terms of sex.

That would fit with a schizoid personality. Schizoids don't seem to relate normally to others sexually, and such individuals do, they fall into pathological patterns (i.e., dating sites, 'womanizing', etc.)

He even left me the impression i was the only one he had it with but again , this might be well another trap so that he maintains my fairytale scenario of him. Why bother? He knew for the time being that i had some other realationships but none was as intense as this one.( mainly because this one dates back in our teenage years ) Is it any escape from these dillusions because it's very hard to cope with and accept i've been trapped ...That he acted as a predator in the relationship ...

Well, it could be true that you were the only one he was with. He could've picked up on your desperation and gone out with you simply because you wanted it so much, and he could get something out of it as well. So even if he is not a predator in the extreme sense (like a psychopath), he essentially acted as one, using you for his own purposes while letting you project a fantasy onto him. Have you read Unholy Hungers? That might be the one to start with if you haven't read any of the 5 narcissism books we recommend.


I have read The mask of Sanity ( not entirely) because 3 years ago i had a very similar issue with a guy that seemed no more no less then a virtual psychopath. I talked to him , he was manipulating me and drain me of my energy to serve him as a virtual mental stimulation puppet on messenger without ever wanting to get to know me in real life and discuss openly about the future of our interaction. After 2 years after i finally escaped this he stalked me in the park were i was jogging every evening. I really don't know how do i attract these people? i do have friends , mostly female friends and i know persons with whom i don't have to make any effort or convince them of anything, those bonds are simply building by themselves and even if some are not so enduring or exciting, i find them healthier in respect to these ones. Thank you for recommend me that book , i'll try to read it as soon as i can.
I think about myself as a normal person, although quite a risk taker and a nurturer to these ''lost souls ''( tongue-in cheek) but in providing material for them i kinda of lost track of my own needs and purpose in life. I do not have the same results in school as i used to, and i'm no longer so idealistic and easy-going , free- spirited, clever girl ..maybe this is a process of maturing my inner self and becoming a witty woman. :P
I'm really happy i can finally find people who understand and even ones that lived those kind of experiences , if it hadn't been for the psycho guy and then for Victor, my addherence to this site wouldn't be have taken place.





as far as my diet is concerned i eat 2 times a day , at 4 -5 pm and at 10 pm sometimes later, i usually eat boiled meat , fish , chicken made in the oven , vegetables such as rice, potatoes, beans ( we don't aford in Romania to buy bio-products that are quite expensive) and fruits for desert, i eat chocolate ( 4, 5 small tablets) but not everyday and once a month i eat junk food but usually i stay away from them. I also eat chicken soup or traditional food ''sarmale'' , i do not drink alchohol but i smoke a pack of cigarettes per week.

Rice, potatoes, beans and fruit aren't good for everyone (rice contains gluten, for example). Also, the sugar in chocolate can feed Candida and junk food is bad all around. No problem with the cigarettes, but you may want to peruse the health topics on the forum and try out the detox diet. Even in Romania, you should be able to eliminate most bad foods. I can't stress how important it is to really get a handle on diet and start doing EE.

3 days ago i started reading abou EE and gradually started to practice those respiratory exercises. I still think it will be a slow process but i'm looking forward to my recovery. I hope i didn't spoil the thread with my personal story... :cool2:
 
Re: Re: BORIS MOURAVIEFF: Gnosis

The links that you gave me are quite interesting but what was on your mind, i'm just curious ? I'm ,sadly, :lol: interested in sex and i have always been ,both intellectualy and practicaly( in my teens) , but i would have never engaged in it if the persons involved were not supposed to do it for the same reasons and on protection , of course.

So i had only two partners, a first time casual encounter and then Victor, otherwise i'll do what i have done since i was a very small age. I don't feel ashamed about it, i talked to my mother and my psychiatrist wether it's normal to have a highly sex drive( or think and be eager about it) , i can say if it's actually high but i don't know many girls who really enjoy the psysical aspects of this practice as i do in their 20's, many brag about it or keep the issue in low key as if it's not at all important. I think it is, when it adds a spiritual dimension to your life. But hey , as long as i get schizoids and psychopaths on my door i can't have my share of tantra.. :lol: or good intimacy. :-[
 
Re: Re: BORIS MOURAVIEFF: Gnosis

psychic_spy said:
I think he's my polar opposite but as Laura pointed out is hard to convince since he's wallowing in self-denial and lies.
What do you think?

I think it might be worth considering the idea that if he were your Polar Opposite, you'd not have to convince him of anything.
 
Re: Re: BORIS MOURAVIEFF: Gnosis

Approaching Infinity said:
psychic_spy said:
Now i really wonder why would we bother about anyting romantically since we mostly project, device partners according to our beliefs and STS behaviours. What you told me now is a typical STS oriented behavior , both from my part and from his. I derived obsession from my feeling of entitlement to him ..i absolutely denied every objective idea that i don't play any particular role in his film of experience, at least not a meaningfull one. And he of course cut me off at the first sign of revolting and wanting more involvement or more expansion. It's true i saw an expansive aspect in this for i tried to eastablish a daily contact with him and he was relunctant to talk , even about hobbies, spirituality and things outside our relationship. He was relunctant to share ideas , and preferences ...why would someone do that when you actually need them too ?

Our biological programs can be strong, but there ARE other possibilities. See these threads, for example: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=20621.0 and http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=21030.0

psychic_spy said:
The links that you gave me are quite interesting but what was on your mind, i'm just curious ? I'm ,sadly, :lol: interested in sex and i have always been ,both intellectualy and practicaly( in my teens) , but i would have never engaged in it if the persons involved were not supposed to do it for the same reasons and on protection , of course.

I think what AI may have been getting at in suggesting these two threads is that there are two kinds of sex that are discussed -- mating sex and bonding sex. We are all pretty much programmed to pursue the first kind, while the second kind is never even really presented as an option. Having a sex drive is quite normal, but what we do with it, in terms of these two attitudes toward sex, is what will determine whether the sex we engage in is ultimately STO or STS-oriented (see FireShadow's discussion here).

Going back to this:

psychic_spy said:
Now i really wonder why would we bother about anyting romantically since we mostly project, device partners according to our beliefs and STS behaviours.

That's pretty much correct. The thing is, we can entertain the idea of a relationship eventually, but the only way to be sure that it is done for the right reasons and built on a firm foundation is if we clean our own machine first -- work on that part of ourselves that projects, hungers for a partner based on our false illusions and what we want (or think we want), and so forth. Until we (and any potential partner) have done that -- maybe not perfectly, but at least sufficiently -- then it is likely that any relationship we enter into will eventually fall into an negative feedback loop based on illusions and feeding. So it's not that things are hopeless -- it's just that it takes a lot of work and patience to get to a place where we can actually participate in a positive, balanced relationship that is giving on both sides.
 
Re: Re: BORIS MOURAVIEFF: Gnosis

anart said:
psychic_spy said:
I think he's my polar opposite but as Laura pointed out is hard to convince since he's wallowing in self-denial and lies.
What do you think?

I think it might be worth considering the idea that if he were your Polar Opposite, you'd not have to convince him of anything.


That's exactly the point here, i didn't have to think and designed it that way. I was only left to convince myself and first of all to figure outwhy things turned out the way they turned and we broke up. His final words were not negative necessarily, since he told me to have patience and wait , experiment , get rid of the past , put myself to work for that one love , truly fufulling one . It seems that everyting depends on my developpment and as far as it concerns him, his life choices ,aspirations didn't matter as much ( another STS whishing maybe?) as long as I fit in the world and he does the same while preparing himself for what he is really designed to become. All those things were intrinsic to our selves since this relationship as far as he's concerned doesn't work on mutual gratification basis, neither on friendly basis for very long.
Nevertheless i'm left to struggle with the diverging ideeas that he's either a totally dysfunctional,self-centered, average man, wanting to have his peace of mind regained as before i troubled the waters , either an enlightened master that knows more about divine love then i do and leads me to a long path of self growth untill i'm really ready to commit to that One. Which now i still believe it's him :lol: .. :lol:
 
Re: Re: BORIS MOURAVIEFF: Gnosis

Hi, thought I'd chip into this thread.

pyschic_spy, it might be possible that what makes you think he is like your polar opposite or soulmate is because he has a sense of mystery around him(atleast from your point of view) and you havent yet pinned him down interms of who he is as a person?? And maybe you are the sort of person that is attracted to the mysterious and as he happens to be a mysterious person, you have made him into your polar opposite atleast in your mind?

You say this, which I think supports my argument.

pyschic_spy said:
Nevertheless i'm left to struggle with the diverging ideeas that he's either a totally dysfunctional,self-centered, average man, wanting to have his peace of mind regained as before i troubled the waters , either an enlightened master that knows more about divine love then i do and leads me to a long path of self growth untill i'm really ready to commit to that One. Which now i still believe it's him Laugh .. Laugh

In all these, it comes across, atleast from my point of view, that you have figured all this out and as a result of having figured all this out, you go up to him and try to make him conform to what you thought you figured out. In this case, that you are polar opposites, what kind of stuff he should be interested in now, what kind of relationship you want to have. You seem to be doing alot of judging and second guessing... Basically, there is alot of you here and very little of him atleast from what I have read, in my opinion.

I think you should take a step back and give him some space. If you are Polar Opposites, you should concentrate working on yourself, to clean up your machine(your being) from the illusions/subjectivity/false personality etc, work on your path and he'll do likewise on his through his own personal effort, then maybe if what you think or want to be true turns out to be the case, you might end up meeting somewhere down the line with the same image in both your minds....

I'd hate for this to be true but:

pyschic_spy said:
I think he's my polar opposite but as Laura pointed out is hard to convince since he's wallowing in self-denial and lies.

It might be possible and in my opinion a very cruel thing, if for example, it wasnt him wallowing in self-denial and lies but you(atleast in the sense of you 2 being polar opposites)... It might be possible that he is right and you are wrong. How can you know for certain either way but I think you might have only seriously considered your point of view and disregarded his because of your 'projecting.' Maybe that is why it might be advisable to take a step back...

From what I understand about Polar Opposites, it's not about possession and it might be that you are trying to possess him like somekind of commodity or item.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Re: Re: BORIS MOURAVIEFF: Gnosis

Oh since this is a thread on Gnosis, I believe Mouravieff has given an in-depth(?) description of what Polar Opposites are. About how 2 are actually 1 interms of the complimentary qualities of there personalities and being in its entirety etc etc. It might be a worthwhile exercise, to look objectively without emotional thinking on your interactions with victor to see if these exists between you to.

From what I understand, Polar Opposites are a force of nature to some extent, the same way gravity is. See, if I go up a building and jump, I think am going to hit the ground pretty hard thanks to our friend mr gravity. So if people are polar opposites, I think a sort of magnetism should exist between both of them that acts to bring them together. Maybe even a sort of magnetism that forces them to overcome great odds interms of doing away with the false personality so they can be re-united. This force should act on both parties. In this case, it sadly appears to be acting only through you which might be a case 'for' you projecting rather than you 2 being polar opposites. Or it might turn out that he is drowning in illusions and lies that he cant tell up from down any more. Either way, it requires you to look as objectively as you can on the whole thing so you can get an idea.. There should be more than emotions present - emotions are transitory after all.

If I remember correctly, I think Mouravieff gives the number 66(?) as the number of people who are compatible with us(each individual), relationshipwise speaking. Out of these, there is like 3(?) who one can form a really strong bond with and out of this, there is only 1 polar being. I might be wrong but I think he gives a description of the sort in one of the books... Might be possible that victor falls within this range but isnt the one that is truly polar to you...
 

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