Quinton Plasma/Water, or "percutaneous hydrotomy"

beetlemaniac

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I've been doing autohemotherapy on my own for 5 sessions so far. Today would be my sixth, except that something strange happened. The blood I drew had a lot of clots. It was very hard to pull the syringe to draw blood and it got stuck when I tried to push out the excess blood through the butterfly needle, though some of the clots did come out. I didn't end up using the blood because there were just too many clots, and the syringe kept getting stuck. I ejected the entire draw into the sink, collected the clots and put them on tissue paper and have taken a photo of them as well. There were quite a few clots of varying sizes. I was amazed and a little scared to see all those clots, I wasn't sure why they came about, and whether the clot started in the tube or it was from the vein. In between the blood draw the needle had come out and I had to reinsert it. Could these clots be coming from somewhere other than the vein due to the needle being moved halfway? I doubt it, because of the amount of resistance I had from the syringe throughout the entire draw. This is the first time this has ever happened for me, I've had my blood drawn quite a few times before, not only for AHT but for blood tests and donations.

I found an article talking about hypercoagulability - I don't know if that's what's going on. It could also be that I'm dehydrated, but I think that since these were clots, there has to be something else involved as well. I'll be upping my fluid intake though. I drink a lot of salt water, so I don't know if that could be a factor as well.

I hope I could get some feedback, @Gaby, or anyone else?
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
One possible explanation could be that you either used a needle that was too small, or that you drew the blood up too rapidly. Both these things lead to a partial destruction of the red blood cells and this can initiate the coagulation cascade to get started.

I don’t think you can draw any conclusions about hypercoagulability just from the mere fact that the blood is clotting in the syringe. It’s a complicated process with many variables. Maybe being well hydrated might help too, as this positively impacts on blood viscosity, thus minimizing the risk of the blood being damaged during the drawing process.

Just try the above and see if this works.
 

nature

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Hi beetlemaniac!
Do you remove the withers once the vein has been punctured? Do you immediately inject in the muscle?
I had a clotting problem twice; that occured when I wanted to inject the blood on the muscle. The blood was clotted in the syringue
1 - when I forgot removing the withers
2 - when it was hot (in spring, on my terrace in the shade but it was hot)
 

beetlemaniac

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
One possible explanation could be that you either used a needle that was too small, or that you drew the blood up too rapidly. Both these things lead to a partial destruction of the red blood cells and this can initiate the coagulation cascade to get started.

I don’t think you can draw any conclusions about hypercoagulability just from the mere fact that the blood is clotting in the syringe. It’s a complicated process with many variables. Maybe being well hydrated might help too, as this positively impacts on blood viscosity, thus minimizing the risk of the blood being damaged during the drawing process.

Just try the above and see if this works.
Thanks nicklebleu! I use a 21G butterfly needle right now. I'll try it again in a week's time to see how it turns out, I'll have to increase my water consumption.

That would concern me too. I'm not sure, but Vitamin K helps with clotting. Are you taking that or foods with a high amount of it? FWIW.
Hi 3D Student, I eat very little of the foods that contain Vitamin K (they are mainly vegetables like kale, broccoli, etc.) so I don't think it's that.

Hi beetlemaniac!
Do you remove the withers once the vein has been punctured? Do you immediately inject in the muscle?
I had a clotting problem twice; that occured when I wanted to inject the blood on the muscle. The blood was clotted in the syringue
1 - when I forgot removing the withers
2 - when it was hot (in spring, on my terrace in the shade but it was hot)
Hi nature! I am not sure what you mean by withers? I tried to look it up online but couldn't find much information on it.
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Generally you leave the tourniquet on until you finish drawing the blood. If you don’t, it’s often very difficult or impossible to fill a syringe.

The other thing is that once you have drawn up the blood, don’t shake it too much, because that triggers the clotting cascade, too. I usually just gently tip the horizontally held syringe back and forth a few times (with just a little bit of air in the syringe), and then immediately inject it into the muscle (be sure to expel the air again before injection).

Just leaving the syringe lying around for a few minutes in itself is enough to trigger the cascade, too, as contact of the blood with any foreign surface does.
 

nature

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Indeed, it's less easy without tourniquet. So, in my case it might have been rather the time between drawing and injecting. or the tourniquet was here too long time.
 

aimarok

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I've been doing AHT for a couple of months and noticed an interesting effect. Right after injection my stress level goes down and I feel very relaxed and calm. It is really helpful considering how easily stress builds up nowadays.

And I have a question about AHT: does iron in injected blood stays in the body or is it removed through standard pathways? Should I consider blood donations to remove excessive iron while doing AHT?
 
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Ant22

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I've been doing AHT for a couple of months and noticed an interesting effect. Right after injection my stress level goes down and I feel very relaxed and calm. It is really helpful considering how easily stress builds up nowadays.

And I have a question about AHT: does iron in injected blood stays in the body or is removed through standard pathways? Should I consider blood donations to remove excessive iron while doing AHT?

Welcome to the club aimarok and congrats on doing it on your own! :thup: I noticed a similar calming effect after AHT but I thought it was becuase the process stresses me out in the first place :-)

As for your question, I'm not an expert so maybe others will be able to assist you better but I guess the iron goes back in the body when it's injected. I used to think AHT would lower iron levels but I don't really see how this would work since iron does get accumulated in other parts of the body, not just veins. That said, I do wonder if it's easier for the body to remove it when it goes in the muscle.

I have hemochromatosis so I need to watch my iron levels. I can't donate blood becuase I don't meet the minimum weight requirement but I haven't noticed any issues with increased iron levels over the past year of doing regular 10-12ml AHT shots weekly. In fact, I only felt I had to lower my iron once. I don't remove blood but take IP6 on an empty stomach instead. Gaby posted about it here. In my case high iron announces itself with stomach pain and fatigue and IP6 solves this problem every time.
 

nature

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
As for your question, I'm not an expert so maybe others will be able to assist you better but I guess the iron goes back in the body when it's injected. I used to think AHT would lower iron levels but I don't really see how this would work since iron does get accumulated in other parts of the body, not just veins. That said, I do wonder if it's easier for the body to remove it when it goes in the muscle.
I wondered the same thing. I didn't found the answer in the articles about AHT. I would tend to think it could decrease the iron, by the way of macrophages. These are cells that are present everywhere in our tissus, organs, blood, vessel walls and their role is to "eat" undesirable elements (dead cells, heayvy metals, foreign bodies, viruses). When they eat these elements, they die, they are eliminated outside the body with these indesirable elements captured in them.

We know that the benefits of AHT is based on increasing the number and function of macrophages (among other cells), so theoretically, AHT could decrease the severity of hemochromatosis. At worst, AHT have no effect on hemochromatisis, so it's good you try it, ant22! Will be interested to know if those who are affected by this issue and do AHT see their ferritine decrease.
 

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I don’t think that you eliminate iron with AHT proper - as you correctly mentioned, you re-inject the iron you just drew with blood. I don’t think that iron get eliminated easier in muscle, the body is very efficient at recycling iron. But what you could do is every time you draw some blood for AHT, you draw another one or two syringes and discard that. Over time you could eliminate quite a bit of iron.
 

hiker

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I've been doing AHT for a couple of months and noticed an interesting effect. Right after injection my stress level goes down and I feel very relaxed and calm. It is really helpful considering how easily stress builds up nowadays.

Dr Luiz Moura commented about the stress level going down:

Scope of auto-hemotherapy
By increasing the number of macrophages, auto-hemotherapy makes the whole system of action of the attackers that occurs in the body – be it a virus, bacteria, abnormal pre-cancerous cells – all this can be inhibited by the activation of the Immune System. Auto-hemotherapy really has a wide range of applications and I also have found that it works in an area of the nervous system, which is the autonomic nervous system. It organises the vago-sympathetic system and this makes people feel more tranquil.

Tense people tend to be sympathicotonic. This causes vascular contraction and favours hypertension. Auto-hemotherapy keeps blood pressure under control and maintains the right balance between the vagal system – which expands the blood vessels - and the sympathetic system, which contracts them. It is another aid, together with other resources. It is an aid in fighting hypertension, which is a disease that strikes billions of people in the world, due to the stress of modern life, of fear and insecurity. Today hypertension is becoming a very serious public health problem. And auto-hemotherapy, at least by balancing the neurovegetative system, is already helping to make the consequences of hypertension less serious.
 

hiker

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I came across an interesting tidbit about autohemotherapy.

The main topic of the book "Moon Time" is the moon's phases and signs influencing nature on earth, but it touches other areas as well, AHT being one of them.

The authors advise (pp. 109-110), how the blood donor services should discard the first 50ml of an individual's blood, as it contains information about that particular person's bodily disorder(s), like a "concentrated charge". That is why the same amount injected back to that same person, is so beneficial in a "homeopathic" fashion.

Taking the above into consideration it makes sense, when this strategic "first blood" is given to a different person, with diffent disorders, it might possibly have some slight disadvantageous effects for him or her.
 
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