Reaction of (self-proclaimed) psychopath to PP video

webwizard09 said:
anart said:
webwizard09 said:
Your posting of a false analogy is implicitly absurd.
Could you elaborate on this remark, since I see no evidence whatsoever that this is the case.
Certainly. False analogies have no place in any argument. : )

No, seriously, his analogy doesn't make sense. Knowledge leads to achieving greater goals, not stupidity. 'Psychopathy' can also lead to achieving greater goals.
This depends on your goals. Normal humans have innate tendencies for egocentrism as well as alterocentrism. Psychopaths, however, do not possess any tendencies for alterocentrism. This may explain your inability to imagine alterocentric goals, or "STO action." Curiously, another aspect of psychopathy is pathological egotism. They automatically repress any self-critical data from their consciousness. As such, they lack the ability to realize when they are wrong. They are "stuck" at a primitive level of development, but are convinced they are at top. Quite ironic, really.

anart said:
webwizard said:
Why would anyone be interested in benefitting others if it didn't clearly benefit oneself? It's backwards.
Just becasue you cannot understand something does not mean that it cannot be understood. Your lack of ability to grasp the general concept reflects much more strongly on you than it does the concept itself. Can you understand that?
Could you just give me a clear explanation as to why someone would do something with absolutely no self-interest in the matter? ScioAgapeOmnis does not provide one. There is no clear purpose for an STS being to perform and STO action.
Normal humans are STS, but have STO tendencies and the capability to develop these tendencies. Psychopaths do not. You are projecting your own egocentrism/egoism/egotism on others.

anart said:
webwizard said:
Look at the classic Prisoner's Dilemma. Since they don't know if the other will defect or not and cannot be absolutely sure of the other prisoner, it is in the prisoner's best interest to defect and only take the 5 years if the other guy screws him over.
Or look at game theory - it's along the same lines. Game theory was developed by a psychopath - a psychological deviant. Do you understand the implications of using such examples to make your point? Ah, wait, you were the one who disliked psychopathy being described as a deviancy, or disorder - righhtttttt.
Game theory works, does it not? What implications?
Game theory only works for psychopaths. Normal people suffer when they act against their prosocial dynamisms. Again, I don't expect you to understand it. I don't think you have the 'hardware' so to speak.

I find it quite humorous. Psychopaths just cannot get it when normal people show an inability act in a psychopathic callous manner. Their ignorance and inability for abstract thought and creativity is stunning and clinically proven, and yet you think psychopathy is an "advancement?" Well, I guess you would have to think that... What other choice do you have?

I mean that by advocating a knowledge of people having the capacity to lack emotion, this site would like for the general populace to prevent the use of natural advantages given to such people.
"Natural advantages." Ha! If you (?) critters only knew that psychopathic "natural advantages" are what end up getting you killed and lynched (witness Nuremburg, Ted Bundy, Ken McElroy, etc.), you might be singing a different tune! But you can't, can you? I'm curious if you are actually psychopathic, or just extremely ignorant. Maybe this excerpt from Cleckley's Mask of Sanity will knock some sense into you, but I'm guessing it won't:

Cleckley said:
Since the last edition of this book was published in 1964 discussion of the
psychopath has continued and further attempts have been made to evaluate his status.
A remarkable, and curiously misleading, presentation of the subject was offered only a
few years ago by a lay writer, Alan Harrington, first in the popular magazine Playboy and
later in Psychopaths, a book amplifying his theme.

A serious and regrettable confusion, I believe, is likely to come from opinions
quoted by this author that seem very plainly to advocate that the psychopath be
admired, chosen as a leader, or at least as a model for other men. Referring to one of
these opinions, the author says, "The menacing psychopath is embraced. Incredibly ...
it seems at first shock ... we are urged to turn into an 'antithetical' version of the outlaw
and find our way to his radical vision of the universe."

Some of the people quoted or cited by the author of the Playboy article (and the
subsequent book) seem to be spokesmen for, or prominent figures in, the recent
movement of rebellion often referred to as the counterculture. In this movement we
find zealots who embrace hallucinatory confusion under the influence of potentially
brain-damaging psychedelic drugs and aggressively proclaim it as religious experience.
Here, too, we find the antihero, often a figure flaunting treason and dishonor along with
his unkempt beard, barefootedness, and defiantly frayed blue jeans. In this so-called
counterculture the antihero was not only welcomed but by some virtually enshrined. It
has been fashionable also in this movement to degrade the high passion and glory of
sexual love to a significance not far from that of a belch. Perhaps, in this general and
heedless effort to reverse the basic values, almost anything traditionally regarded as
undesirable, or despicable, might be automatically stamped with the sign of approval.

After many quotations from people who may be reflecting elements of this
movement, the author, himself, encourages us to "ask ... if the psychopath's time has
come, if there may be a world-wide need for him." He goes on to say, "Could the
coming of the psychopath be a natural and inevitable result of our drastically
deteriorating environment (which helps fling him up) as well as one answer to it and,
who knows, a potential remedy for such deterioration?"

Other opinions expressed by the author include these: "Although originally
founded upon an anti-social condition, it [psychopathy] offers exciting new alternatives
to the way we have lived until now ... the distinction blurs hopelessly between present
day psychopathic patterns as observed in prisons, institutions and clinics, and equivalent
behavior, which may often be put to use in good causes outside of these places... would
it be best," he asks, "to teach our children the psychopathic style in order that they may
survive?" He speaks of "Brilliant individuals among us that are basing their own lives
on the psychopathic model" and, referring to them, he cites the opinion that, "What was
formerly diagnosed mental illness has turned into the new spirit of the age." He seems
quite serious in repeatedly asking if we should imitate the psychopath, if we should
"yield to insanity accepted as normal? Cultivate one's own latent psychopathy, perhaps
trying to adapt it to good ends?" He also says, "Conceivably the times ate railing for an
idealized version of the psychopath as savior."

Other quotations are given from writers who claim that psychopaths should be
considered as having found the great answers to life. In response to such opinions, the
author asks, "Rave we come to the hour of the psychopath, the advent of psychopathic
man . . . when what was once presumed to be a state of illness is abruptly declared to
be a state of health, . . . can it be true that, with the dramatic appearance of the
psychopathic ideal, a new man has come upon us, that in order to survive the turbulent
years ahead, far from seeking to treat the psychopath in clinics, we should rather
emulate him, learn how to become him?"

Such opinions as these, and many others quoted or expressed directly by the
author, give rise to a number of thoughts. First, let me say that the question of whether
or not it is desirable to be a psychopath seems not so much a real question as a pretext
for sophistry. For a sophistry that is not only obvious but monumentally frivolous. It
strongly suggests to me the sort of argument that might arise about whether or not a
physician should use treatment in behalf of the patient or in behalf of the
microorganisms which are in the process of killing him."

It is true that the psychopath is extremely difficult to understand or to explain.
Confusion has often arisen about just what is indicated by the term. Any reasonable
sane person who feels or says that we should emulate the psychopath must, one might
presume, have a poor understanding of what the term indicates and must, surely, be
talking about something else. Textbooks over the years, as we know, have often listed
widely differing disorders under this term. A sincere choice of the real psychopath as
model or leader by anyone familiar with the Subject would be beyond absurdity.

Even in these times of fiercely dictated permissiveness, this choice would have to
be called by the currently censored, but quite accurate terms, perverse and degenerate.
A true taste for the psychopath as leader or model, or as object of admiration, also
suggests to me the peculiarly pathological and unappealing aestheticism of Huysmans'
fictional character, des Esseintes, who, after withdrawing from nearly all natural
activities, takes another step:

And a pale smile hovered over his lips when finally his servant brought him a
nourishing enema compounded with peptone and informed his master that he was to
repeat the little operation three times every twenty-four hours.

The thing was successfully carried out and des Esseintes could not help secretly
congratulating himself on the event which was a coping stone, the crowning triumph, in a
sort, of the life he had contrived for himself. His predilection for the artificial had now,
and that without any initiative on his part, attained its supreme fulfillment. A man could hardly go farther;
nourishment thus absorbed was surely the last aberration from the natural that could be
committed.

What a delicious thing he said to himself it would be if one could, once restored to
health, go on with the same simple regime. . . . Last but not least, what a direct insult
cast in the face of old Mother Nature, whose never varying exigencies would be forever
nullified. [p. 325]
The basic judgment and the moral orientation underlying a deliberate choice of
the actual psychopath as model or leader could hardly deserve more consideration or
respect than the judgment and orientation leading to a militant demand that Richard
Speck be installed as National Supervisor of Nursing Education in the United States and
that the Congressional Medal of Honor be awarded to the Boston Strangler.
 
What if your goal is to serve others? And when you say "STS always works" - define "works". What goes into this working? What is the modus operandi of STS, how do they get by, what kind of social structures do they form, what sort of predisposition to others and reality they have that affects the nature of their existence? Wishful thinking is one major factor here, etc.

Also, my analogy was, "control over limbic center is to advancement" is analogous to "stupidity or blindness is to advancement". If control over limbic center gives you a greater array of action, so does stupidity or blindness. Your eyes, and your knowledge, will help with self-preservation and also help preserve others. Similarly, your emotions and empathy do the same. One example is STO networks - something STS does not have. This is only possible with empathy and an emotional center that works and motivates you, which includes empathy.

Having "control" over it in the way you are speaking, seems equivalent to selectively turning it on and off - but is that something that's helpful? Turning off annoying empathy or uncomfortable emotions to "get rid of" whatever is causing them to hurt is like closing your eyes to get rid of an approaching vehicle. Honestly, sometimes you NEED to experience pain and fear to learn and grow and advance, to be motivated to do the "right thing". And by right thing I mean that which benefits all, yourself included. People who shove their heads in the sand during signs of trouble or close their eyes and singe "lalala" don't usually make it through ok.

Doing what goes against your goal may be insanity, but if your goal is to serve others then it's not. If your goal is serving yourself, then sacrificing yourself on someone else's behalf makes no sense. Ultimately though, if you're not around, you can't help anyone else either. So even if your goal is serving others, self-preservation is often part of that goal. But it's not because you perceive yourself as more important than anyone else, but simply to preserve your usefulness to others.

And I agree that we cannot be STO in this world. We have to lie, we have to hide information, we have to put on a fake "personality" when necessary, we have eat and all the other things required to be in this world. But we don't have to manipulate others "unnecessarily", we don't have to lie unnecessarily, etc. Basically limit our STS nature and be as STO as we can practically be, which necessitates consciousness and objectivity at least with ourselves and those we can trust like a "work group".
 
Mark, you have asked a very good question. Entertainment is one answer. That, and I have yet to meet a moron in these forums.

Anart, don't think that I am quite that short-sighted.

Keep in mind, enthalpy always produces some entropy. Hoping for enthalpy without entropy is a pipedream.

Why do think that psychopathy is inherently non-creative? Creativity is a general human characteristic. Just because there is the destroy option does not mean that it must be used. Psychopathy allows for entropy, one does not have to practice it. Creativity and growth are there, one must look however and escape one's biases. As evil as the Israeli state is, can you at least appreciate the methods that they use and their effectiveness? The Nazis have nothing on the Israelis except for maybe numbers.

As a counterpoint to your quote, "(Psychopathy) is still so severely maladaptive that it requires 'normals' to survive," I am arguing that normals also require normals to survive. No sane psychopath will deplete the herd. The insane ones generally wind up in the penal system.

I'm not bothered by dissemination of information so much as the information is being provided from a very one sided point of view.

How you write things - Psychopaths are evil. They do evil things because they have no emotion.
How I would write things - Psychopaths are commonly characterized as evil and many have done evil things. They are more enabled to be evil because they have no/limited emotion.
 
webwizard09 said:
Mark, you have asked a very good question. Entertainment is one answer. That, and I have yet to meet a moron in these forums.

Anart, don't think that I am quite that short-sighted.
I don't think you are short sighted so much as self-impressed, resulting in what we would call 'wishful thinking' - the inclination to only see what one wants to see.

ww said:
Keep in mind, enthalpy always produces some entropy. Hoping for enthalpy without entropy is a pipedream.
Your thinking is rather skewed here. There are indeed cases of enthalpy without entropy - are you familiar with the work of Fulcanelli? Perhaps your understanding of entropy is 'unique'?


ww said:
Why do think that psychopathy is inherently non-creative? Creativity is a general human characteristic.
Ah, and, again, you slip. Psychopaths are not 'human' as 'human' is normally defined - that is what makes them psychopaths. Psychopaths are inherently NOT able to be creative. They cannot 'go there' - but they know very well how to use 'normals' to 'go there'. Left to their own devices; pure entropy - no creativity, this is one of the reasons they are maladaptive. Parroting of other's creativity, perhaps, but no true creativity. I'm a bit surprised you were not aware of that.


ww said:
Just because there is the destroy option does not mean that it must be used. Psychopathy allows for entropy, one does not have to practice it. Creativity and growth are there, one must look however and escape one's biases.
Nope, this is simply not true. Perhaps you are simply unaware of what true creativity is. There is no 'option' to their destruction - to the psychopathic general destruction because it is the logical outcome of entropy. Like germs in a body, they do not understand that they too will be burned in the ground after they have destroyed their host. They are maladaptive. Without the capacity for creativity, for normal human experience, they have no option - no choice. Once they have used all available resources: death. This does not apply to 'normals' (who are not ponerized) - they are actually able to create new opportunities and new 'resources'.


ww said:
As evil as the Israeli state is, can you at least appreciate the methods that they use and their effectiveness? The Nazis have nothing on the Israelis except for maybe numbers.
Absolutely not. There is zero creativity there. They are not even intelligent enough to not draw the ire of 'normals'. As usual, it is a case of psychopathic wishful thinking - lack of foresight and destruction - pure and simple. They might very well end up as the Nazis did, however - no where to go but down.



ww said:
As a counterpoint to your quote, "(Psychopathy) is still so severely maladaptive that it requires 'normals' to survive," I am arguing that normals also require normals to survive. No sane psychopath will deplete the herd. The insane ones generally wind up in the penal system.
No, they are all insane - and in the current period of time, end up ruling countries, cities, towns and prisons - have you not read Ponerology? Psychopaths cannot 'deplete the herd' because they cannot survive without them. Normals, however, need no herd - you seem to be unable to grasp that difference.

ww said:
I'm not bothered by dissemination of information so much as the information is being provided from a very one sided point of view.
Not true - it is simply provided from an objective viewpoint - which is very different from 'one sided' - psychopaths cannot understand that difference, however, since to a psychopath, 'facts' do not exist - only their take on any situation at any particular point in time.


ww said:
How you write things - Psychopaths are evil. They do evil things because they have no emotion.
How I would write things - Psychopaths are commonly characterized as evil and many have done evil things. They are more enabled to be evil because they have no/limited emotion.
Nope. I would not even say they are evil - no more evil than a crocodile, or an intraspecific predator. I do not hate psychopaths for being what they can not avoid. They are not human, but they exist in the natural framework of things. The simple fact of the matter is that they have driven this planet to the literal brink of extinction and we are trying to inform those who are capable of hearing, in a last ditch effort to turn them back - just a bit. It might very well change nothing - but it is what we do.

You will find no sympathetic ear here to your 'psychopaths are evolutionarily superior' shtick - psychopaths have been around since 'the beginning' and they will burn with the rest of the planet if they are not stopped - another dead parasite on another dead host.
 
webwizard09's sig as of 17 Sept 07 said:
A man should not strive to eliminate his complexes but to get into accord with them: they are legitimately what directs his conduct in the world. -- Sigmund Freud
Cleckley said:
He [Alan Harrington] seems quite serious in repeatedly asking if we should imitate the psychopath, if we should "yield to insanity accepted as normal?"
 
Aiee! One reply at a time!

I understand that a person could be inclined towards alterocentrism if they were wired that way and I understand that some people get highs off of that sort of thing. It's still crazy, but an excellent social construct. Hey, I know when I have been found wrong. When it happens, I concede all wrong points and correct them.

Ahem! He who calls another arrogant is also arrogant in doing so. Egocentrism is a two-way street.

I just want to know why they suffer when going against pro-social tendencies. I understand that they are wired that way. Has alterocentrism been socially or genetically programmed into these people?

I do quite a bit of creative and abstract thought, thank you. Believe me, there are many psychopaths who need to be culled from the herd.

Nuremburg trials wouldn't have happened if Hitler wasn't on meth(Vitamultin). He even knew earlier that it was crazy to take on both the east and the west. He became crazy under the drug.

Bundy left far too many loose ends. He didn't do his homework, was careless and eventually got what he deserved.

McElroy went too far with his crimes and didn't go far enough with control.

That enema scene of yours was absolutely appalling. I will agree with the article that a psychopath should not be picked as a leader merely because he/she is a psychopath. The outlaw need not be embraced, for he is clearly an outlaw. The manipulator of the law, the one who pushes the law to its limits is to be embraced.
 
webwizard09 said:
I understand that a person could be inclined towards alterocentrism if they were wired that way and I understand that some people get highs off of that sort of thing. It's still crazy, but an excellent social construct. Hey, I know when I have been found wrong. When it happens, I concede all wrong points and correct them.
Clearly not. Could you provide evidence as to why it is an 'excellent social construct'?

ww said:
Ahem! He who calls another arrogant is also arrogant in doing so. Egocentrism is a two-way street.
Not at all - it is often simply an objective observation.

ww said:
I just want to know why they suffer when going against pro-social tendencies. I understand that they are wired that way. Has alterocentrism been socially or genetically programmed into these people?
Interesting - now it is 'they'...........

ww said:
I do quite a bit of creative and abstract thought, thank you. Believe me, there are many psychopaths who need to be culled from the herd.
Abstract thought is absolutely possible with zero creativity - no problem there at all - perhaps reading some Gurdjieff might help you understand that.

ww said:
Nuremburg trials wouldn't have happened if Hitler wasn't on meth(Vitamultin). He even knew earlier that it was crazy to take on both the east and the west. He became crazy under the drug.
Provide proof of that. The Nuremburg trials were the logical outcome of the Reichstag fire and all that followed - nothing more, nothing less.


ww said:
Bundy left far too many loose ends. He didn't do his homework, was careless and eventually got what he deserved.

McElroy went too far with his crimes and didn't go far enough with control.

That enema scene of yours was absolutely appalling. I will agree with the article that a psychopath should not be picked as a leader merely because he/she is a psychopath. The outlaw need not be embraced, for he is clearly an outlaw. The manipulator of the law, the one who pushes the law to its limits is to be embraced.
At this point it rather sounds like you're unraveling a bit - very interesting. You seem to also not understand that 'classically' homicidal psychopaths are the extreme exception. Methinks you really have no idea whatsoever about that of which you speak.
 
Webwizard said:
[P]sychopathy is an advancement in the human brain, allowing for greater neocortical control over the limbic system. An ultimately advanced psychopath has absolute control as to whether or not the limbic system is on or off.
It seems that you do not understand psychopathy very well. Psychopaths have an affective deficit, and are thus lacking vital information about their environment.
Nuremburg trials wouldn't have happened if Hitler wasn't on meth(Vitamultin). He even knew earlier that it was crazy to take on both the east and the west. He became crazy under the drug.

Bundy left far too many loose ends. He didn't do his homework, was careless and eventually got what he deserved.

McElroy went too far with his crimes and didn't go far enough with control.
You don't get it- psychopaths can not see objective reality and thus can not help but "go too far". I think the analogy that was used somewhere was psychopaths as pathogens. They are only doing what is natural to them, but in doing so they kill the thing that keeps them alive. The world is not a zero-sum game.
 
My apologies, I am not familiar with Fulcanelli. Physics is a particularly poor subject of mine, I intend to take a course in it within the near future.

Creativity manifests all over the place. There is creativity even in new forms of destruction. Perchance you are suggesting the creation of new concepts?

I was suggesting the psychopathic alternative to destruction was inaction, not creativity.

You make a good point, the Israelis have done a cruddy job of it. Ben-Gurion has been criticized for not just wiping the Palestinians off the map. A great deal of psychopaths need to be removed as they lack a tendency to do their homework.

I have read many excerpts from Ponerology, and I was suggesting that maybe psychopathic leaders do not share your same goals.

Your brand of objectivity is highly subjective. Laura does an excellent job with Cassiopedia, but I would like to make a few edits. Psychopathy as a studied phenomenon is still developing.
 
Altrocentrism is an excellent social construct as it prevents many from being a drag on society. Alterocentrism is good as it allows for more to live without dragging too greatly on the public resources.

My dear, your tendency to take the position of objectivity insults the word.

They - Normals. What is interesting?

I plan on picking up Gurdjieff during the winter break.

The reichstag fire signified a change in government. The European theater of WWII would have clearly ended German provided that Hitler didn't become over-ambitious and America didn't get involved. Hitler knew better at one point than to take on the east and the west. He didn't finish the west before challenging the east. You provide proof that the Nuremburg trials were caused by the reichstag fire.
 
webwizard09 said:
Ahem! He who calls another arrogant is also arrogant in doing so. Egocentrism is a two-way street.
An alternative that you seemed to have overlooked while defending your point of view is that he/she who points out the truth could simply be doing just that. That sort of thing takes place here for the benefit of those who want to learn to see objectively - e.g. they're sincerely asking.

webwizard09 said:
I do quite a bit of creative and abstract thought, thank you. Believe me, there are many psychopaths who need to be culled from the herd.
Psychopaths might actually be herding themselves and thus freeing other people from being herded. Maybe.

webwizard09 said:
Nuremburg trials wouldn't have happened if Hitler wasn't on meth(Vitamultin). He even knew earlier that it was crazy to take on both the east and the west. He became crazy under the drug.
Where are your facts to back that up? But nevermind that. It's interesting that you find a need to defend Hitler.

webwizard09 said:
Bundy left far too many loose ends. He didn't do his homework, was careless and eventually got what he deserved.
If life is for learning then why should anyone deserve to be executed? And when execution takes place in any form who shares in the lessons?

webwizard09 said:
McElroy went too far with his crimes and didn't go far enough with control.
And again, basically defending psychopathic criminals.

webwizard09 said:
That enema scene of yours was absolutely appalling.
He was quoting an authoritative source. Why do you twist the intent by trying to attribute the quote to the person who quoted the source?

webwizard09 said:
I will agree with the article that a psychopath should not be picked as a leader merely because he/she is a psychopath. The outlaw need not be embraced, for he is clearly an outlaw. The manipulator of the law, the one who pushes the law to its limits is to be embraced.
Some people think that it's OK to murder people if it's called 'execution' and written into some book of man's 'laws'. You apparently agree.

webwizard09 said:
Your brand of objectivity is highly subjective.
Coming from someone who obviously can't think very well objectively that's quite a subjective (and not so surprising) statement!

webwizard09 said:
Laura does an excellent job with Cassiopedia, but I would like to make a few edits.
Good luck. It's not called The True Encyclopedia for nothing...

webwizard09 said:
Psychopathy as a studied phenomenon is still developing.
We encounter several subjects around here :shock:
 
Kesdjan said:
Webwizard said:
[P]sychopathy is an advancement in the human brain, allowing for greater neocortical control over the limbic system. An ultimately advanced psychopath has absolute control as to whether or not the limbic system is on or off.
It seems that you do not understand psychopathy very well. Psychopaths have an affective deficit, and are thus lacking vital information about their environment.
Nuremburg trials wouldn't have happened if Hitler wasn't on meth(Vitamultin). He even knew earlier that it was crazy to take on both the east and the west. He became crazy under the drug.

Bundy left far too many loose ends. He didn't do his homework, was careless and eventually got what he deserved.

McElroy went too far with his crimes and didn't go far enough with control.
You don't get it- psychopaths can not see objective reality and thus can not help but "go too far". I think the analogy that was used somewhere was psychopaths as pathogens. They are only doing what is natural to them, but in doing so they kill the thing that keeps them alive. The world is not a zero-sum game.
I believe that I have not said anything stating that all psychopaths were equally advanced. Some are very backwards and need to be wiped off the map. Others have no use for wearing the mask of sanity, as they are perfectly sane by your standards a majority of the time.
 
webwizard09 said:
The reichstag fire signified a change in government. The European theater of WWII would have clearly ended German provided that Hitler didn't become over-ambitious and America didn't get involved. Hitler knew better at one point than to take on the east and the west. He didn't finish the west before challenging the east. You provide proof that the Nuremburg trials were caused by the reichstag fire.
You provide proof that Germany would have won the war in some other scenario. Not speculation. Proof.

What if we live in an open non-linear universe? Did that ever cross your mind? The implications of such a possibility are beyond huge. Which of course implies that a butterfly can change everything.
 
How are you so self-convinced of your objectivity? Seriously, the idea that anyone else must be wrong is almost, dare I say, psychopathic?

Maybe. That is a subject open to speculation.

Hitler is almost universally condemned. I try to look beyond the common viewpoint of him. The Nazis are a powerful illustration of the ability of fascism applied to a goal.

Bundy had opportunities to learn from. He could have studied the past. Fail to plan, plan to fail.

I am not defending McElroy; I am merely observing where he went wrong.

He included parts of an authoritative source that may have been unnecessary.

I appreciate the state. If you want anarchy or radical 'progressivism' go off and start your own country.

Hypocrisy is as hypocrisy does, my dear.
 
If one defines a German victory in WWII as control over western and central Europe, than it would have been simple. Germany took over from Poland to France. All they had to do was consolidate their holdings over the occupied territories. The battle of Britain would have been won for Germany if the focus was on military targets, not civilian ones. Germany needed to destroy airfields and industry, not houses. I am relatively certain that if Germany locked in a solid foothold over western Europe, that they would have won WWII. Instead, Germany over-extended itself, and was unprepared for a multiple front war as they did. D-Day worked because there weren't enough Germans patrolling the coast.

Your proof?

That thought has crossed my mind and been accepted in part. A closed non-linear universe makes a little more sense to me.
 

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