Revolution in Ukraine: Western-engineered Coup d'État?

[l apprenti de forgeron]

There has been, and is now escalating, a lot of infighting among the illegitimate coup "government". It's to be expected of these kinds - once they're done using each other, they'll move on to eliminating each other....

Most likely. The promised money is not for everyone (and some are not going to settle for simple administrative positions).

 

[Nević Nenad]

There has been, and is now escalating, a lot of infighting among the illegitimate coup "government". It's to be expected of these kinds - once they're done using each other, they'll move on to eliminating each other....

Most likely. The promised money is not for everyone (and some are not going to settle for simple administrative positions).

Giving promise to give money is one thing, actually giving money is completely another. That's just for fools. They promised money for every "EU aspiring" country, but there was very little money in real life. It is almost as realistic as if they promised to make each and every Ukrainian astronaut.

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

There has been, and is now escalating, a lot of infighting among the illegitimate coup "government". It's to be expected of these kinds - once they're done using each other, they'll move on to eliminating each other....

Most likely. The promised money is not for everyone (and some are not going to settle for simple administrative positions).

Giving promise to give money is one thing, actually giving money is completely another. That's just for fools. They promised money for every "EU aspiring" country, but there was very little money in real life. It is almost as realistic as if they promised to make each and every Ukrainian astronaut.

Right!. But beyond the useful idiots/fools (that always believe in getting rewards in a quick and easy way), money is and will be there, but for very few, as always does the U.S. government in all its interventions abroad. And that will lead to that they eliminating each other, as ST said.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, all in all, the EU and gang will take much more than give anything to Ukraine. Only a little here and there (and opportunities to rob the people) to their chosen puppets for a while. Same old, same old.

 

[angelburst29]

Words of Wisdom from President Vad Putin that I doubt I would ever hear come from our President? More than words, Putin follows through with actions to solidify his claims. A true Statesman.

Putin: Society needs protection against extremism in times of colored revolutions
_http://rt.com/politics/putin-revolution-extremists-protection-613/

The Russian President has urged leading senators to thoroughly study the events in Ukraine as well as other recent ‘color revolutions’ in order to protect the people from radicals and terrorists.

“We should doubtlessly conduct such analysis in order to protect our citizens from the arbitrary actions of various ultras, terrorist elements and people with extremist views,” Vladimir Putin said at the Thursday meeting with the leading members of the Upper House of Parliament.

The president, however, told the politicians that they should be extremely cautious when doing this [ “We should not fall into any sort of euphoria and create the environment that would not be acceptable for the civil society and for protection of the citizens’ rights. The citizens must always understand that they have a set of lawful means and methods with which they could issue claims against the authorities, including rallies, meetings and marches,” Vladimir Putin said.

“No one should claim to be able to go beyond this framework, everyone should resort only to peaceful methods so that the authorities stop creating greenhouse conditions for themselves and hide behind the constantly enlarging repressive function,” he added.

“We must react to the events in the protest movement and information sphere but I call upon you not to use this occasion and make a lot of decisions that would significantly limit the civil freedom and the citizens’ right for expression,” the president said. /b]

Putin’s statement was a reply to a suggestion by Senator Andrey Klishas to amend Russian law on rallies, and introduce criminal responsibility for violating it. The senator used the crisis in Ukraine where anti-government rallies turned violent and people were killed to justify his proposal.

At the same meeting the president asked the senators to speed up the work on bills on the accession of the Crimean Republic into the Russian Federation. He also asked Upper House MPs to accept senators from the two new federation subjects – Crimea and Sevastopol – into the Chamber Council of the Federation Council – the forum for important issues of regional and ethnic policies in the country.

 

[thorbiorn]

The show in Ukraine seems to have quite a way to go. This evening I heard on the Radio Rossiya that there had been several pro-Russian protests in Eastern and Southern Ukraine Sunday. Here is what I found in written form:

Pro-Russian, pro-European activists clash in Odessa
March 2014, 00:38

There were clashes in Odesa on Sunday evening between pro-Russian and pro-European demonstrators. The violence broke out when the routes followed by the two groups of demonstrators crossed.

The pro-Russian marchers, who were carrying Russian flags, put the pro-European activists to flight and chased them, driving them toward the Duc de Richelieu statue but were stopped there by police.

They then hurled eggs at the pro-European activists and went away after a brief rally.The pro-Russian demonstrators had earlier gathered on Kulikovo Field, not far from the central train station. Police posted at what has become the usual site for pro-Russian rallies said between 2,500 and 3,000 people had turned out for the event. After the meeting, its participants marched through city streets in procession.

Their adversaries had gathered at the Duc de Richelieu statue, the usual site of pro-European events, for a rally that brought together 2,000 to 2,500 people according to police.

After the rally, they marched through streets in the city center, unfurling a 1 kilometer-long Ukrainian flag on Deribasovskaya Street. After the majority of them had gone away, the remaining marchers crossed paths with their pro-Russian adversaries.

From Donetsk

Thousands demand referendum on Ukrainian Donbass status at pro-Russian rally
30 March 2014, 19:54

Several thousand people held a pro-Russian rally in Donetsk on Sunday demanding a referendum on the status of Donbas, a large industrial area in eastern Ukraine. After the rally on a square in the city center, where Russian flags and flags of pro-Russian organizations were held, some of the participants moved in procession toward the train station.

The road was blocked for traffic at that time. The procession moved along the central avenue of Donetsk, which was closed to traffic.

And lastly and in a general sense

Ukraine's "civilizers" bring chaos and anarchy: can radicals lead country to Europe?
30 March 2014, 20:28

One of the main slogans of the people who started the uprising at Maidan Nezaleznosti Square in Ukraine’s capital Kiev and who, as a result of this uprising, seized power in the country, was “Ukraine is Europe”. For the authors of this slogan, Europe, most likely, is associated with something highly civilized. However, unfortunately, at present, “civilized” is the word that is least of all suitable to characterize the political situation in Ukraine.

Probably many more articles and reports will come over the next months, it will be hard to keep up with them all. I wonder if the nEU-fascists reconsider their position in relation to how they wish to behave themselves.

 

[thorbiorn]

According to the following report Right Sector has been caught stealing art and the US and it's new vassals in Kiev are hardly any better!

28 paintings and 6 icons were reported missing from the recreational center ‘Bear oak grove’ after Right Sector members left its premises, said Ukraine’s Interior Ministry adding that the damage is estimated at about US$ 1 million.[...]

The coup-appointed government has been supported by the West. The vast majority of the US Senate and House of Representatives have voted on Friday to provide Kiev $1 billion in loan guarantees, to help ‘democracy in Ukraine, governance and civil society assistance, as well enhance security cooperation by Ukraine with other states in Central and Eastern Europe’.

On March 12 US President Barack Obama held a meeting with Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk in Washington DC. Head of Moscow Center of Lev Gumilev Pavel Zarifulin said that according to his source in Ukraine’s Security Service, in addition to proposals and requests Yatsenyuk brought to US certain guarantees - evidence of Ukraine's readiness to cooperate.

“During the upcoming trip to the US, Mr. Yatsenyuk brought to Boryspil International Airport [in Kiev] a large amount of cultural artifacts of Scythian time [Scythian gold] from the Ukrainian State Precious Metals and Gems Repository. All this was brought in armored cars to the airport and then transported to the US,” Zarifulin told RT.

Zarifulin said that under the decree and the list of artefacts his source saw Yatsenyuk’s signature. The head of the center also said that the estimated insurance cost of the Scythian gold was 18 billion dollars.

 

[Yozilla]

I dunno if somebody already mentioned it here but, the very Darth Vader will be running for President in Ukraine. Yulka (Timošenko) should be better with a light saber then

 

[Persej]

I dunno if somebody already mentioned it here but, the very Darth Vader will be running for President in Ukraine. Yulka (Timošenko) should be better with a light saber then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9h4VA3bc-8

Epic!

In the next episode Yulka will discover that Darth Vader is her father!
This really is soap opera!!

 

[Siberia]

According to the following report Right Sector has been caught stealing art and the US and it's new vassals in Kiev are hardly any better!

28 paintings and 6 icons were reported missing from the recreational center ‘Bear oak grove’ after Right Sector members left its premises, said Ukraine’s Interior Ministry adding that the damage is estimated at about US$ 1 million.[...]

The coup-appointed government has been supported by the West. The vast majority of the US Senate and House of Representatives have voted on Friday to provide Kiev $1 billion in loan guarantees, to help ‘democracy in Ukraine, governance and civil society assistance, as well enhance security cooperation by Ukraine with other states in Central and Eastern Europe’.

On March 12 US President Barack Obama held a meeting with Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk in Washington DC. Head of Moscow Center of Lev Gumilev Pavel Zarifulin said that according to his source in Ukraine’s Security Service, in addition to proposals and requests Yatsenyuk brought to US certain guarantees - evidence of Ukraine's readiness to cooperate.

“During the upcoming trip to the US, Mr. Yatsenyuk brought to Boryspil International Airport [in Kiev] a large amount of cultural artifacts of Scythian time [Scythian gold] from the Ukrainian State Precious Metals and Gems Repository. All this was brought in armored cars to the airport and then transported to the US,” Zarifulin told RT.

Zarifulin said that under the decree and the list of artefacts his source saw Yatsenyuk’s signature. The head of the center also said that the estimated insurance cost of the Scythian gold was 18 billion dollars.

Yet another 'golden story': the treasures of "Crimea: Gold and Secrets from the Black Sea" exhibit now displayed in Amsterdam may never return home. Ukraine's new authorities in Kiev have suggested the artifacts shouldn't return to state museums in Crimea because the items belong to Ukraine rather than Russia, which has taken control of the peninsula—including its museums: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304157204579471111226424466?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304157204579471111226424466.html.

 

[angelburst29]

Looks like the U.S. Government's sanction against Russia's Rossiya Bank is going to back fire?

Economy - An action in support of Bank Rossiya to take place in Moscow
_http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/725832

Bank Rossiya plans to work only with Russia’s national currency

MOSCOW, March 30. /ITAR-TASS/. An action in support of bank Rossiya which has decided to work exclusively with the national currency will take place in Moscow on Sunday.

The Golden Symbol of Russian Rouble installation in front of the bank’s office in Perevedensky pereulok in Moscow will symbolize the rouble’s stability and its backing by the country’s gold reserves, the action’s organizers explained to Itar-Tass.

The bank’s transition to using exclusively the rouble may prove the Russian currency’s viability and independence in world economy

Russia, at its present stage of development, should not be dependent on foreign currencies; its internal resources will make its own economy invulnerable to political wheeler dealers,” the action’s organizers said.

The Russian joint-stock bank, AB Rossiya, decided on Friday that it would work only with the national currency to protect its customers from dishonest actions by foreign financial institutions.

“In order to protect the bank’s customers from dishonest actions by foreign financial institutions AB Rossiya has decided to operate only in the domestic market and exclusively with the national currency of the Russian Federation - the rouble,” AB Rossiya said in a statement released on Friday.

[“The bank has already notified some U.S. banks that it is closing its correspondence accounts. Similar notifications have been sent to other foreign financial institutions,” the bank said in its statement./b]

 

[Mike]

More escalation. I really do think the west, especially the US, is going to have all this backfire in a big way. Probably having to do with economic impacts down the line, if things keep going the way they are.

http://rt.com/news/nato-military-cooperation-russia-641/

NATO suspends civilian and military cooperation with Russia

NATO has announced that it is suspending all military and civilian cooperation with Russia over the Ukrainian crisis, the bloc said in a joint statement.

"We have decided to suspend all practical civilian and military cooperation between NATO and Russia. Our political dialogue in the NATO-Russia Council can continue, as necessary, at the Ambassadorial level and above, to allow us to exchange views, first and foremost on this crisis," the statement reads. The alliance plans to review its relations with Russia at a meeting in June.

NATO foreign ministers also urged Moscow in "to take immediate steps ... to return to compliance with international law."

The bloc said that it was stepping up its cooperation with Ukraine, promoting defense reforms and increasing the activity of a liaison office in Kiev.

NATO and Ukraine issued a joint statement after a meeting of their ministers in Brussels. They said that they would “implement immediate and longer term measures to strengthen Ukraine’s ability to provide for its own security.”

A series of meetings in Brussels was called on Tuesday in response to what the bloc sees as Russia’s aggression in Ukraine and its annexation of Crimea. The bloc called on Moscow to reduce its troop number in Crimea to pre-crisis levels, withdraw them to their bases and taper military activities along its border with Ukraine.

 

[Siberia]

More escalation. I really do think the west, especially the US, is going to have all this backfire in a big way. Probably having to do with economic impacts down the line, if things keep going the way they are.

To me it sounds more like a desperate attempt on the US part to impose at least one of those 'serious' sanctions promised.

I agree with Sergey Lavrov, Russia's PM, saying: "And all the sanctions we are seeing now are a knee-jerk reflex that makes them want to find a reasonable way to remedy their hurt feelings" (http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_03_30/Russia-had-no-other-choice-than-to-accept-Crimea-Lavrov-0238/).

I've seen a funny meme recently: "Let's see what else we can imply against those Russians, so that we wouldn't [ ] ourselves in the end".

 

[Redrock12]

Watching how US/Nato/EU have shot themselves in the foot this time certainly lends credence to the fact that psychopaths never seem able to foresee the consequences of their actions.
Did they really think, especially with the advent of instant communications, that they could lie themselves into another war and coup without a large portion of the population catching on to their shenanigans?
It really is mind-boggling.

 

[axj]

Actually, there might be some de-escalation for at least several months. The following analysis makes a compelling argument for that.

It is from Stratfor which is clearly "pro U.S." but this analysis is good nevertheless:

Russia and the United States Negotiate the Future of Ukraine
Geopolitical Weekly
Tuesday, April 1, 2014

By George Friedman

During the Cold War, U.S. secretaries of state and Soviet foreign ministers routinely negotiated the outcome of crises and the fate of countries. It has been a long time since such talks have occurred, but last week a feeling of deja vu overcame me. Americans and Russians negotiated over everyone's head to find a way to defuse the crisis in Ukraine and, in the course of that, shape its fate.

During the talks, U.S. President Barack Obama made it clear that Washington has no intention of expanding NATO into either Ukraine or Georgia. The Russians have stated that they have no intention of any further military operations in Ukraine. Conversations between Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry have been extensive and ongoing. For different reasons, neither side wants the crisis to continue, and each has a different read on the situation.
The Russian Perspective

The Russians are convinced that the uprising in Kiev was fomented by Western intelligence services supporting nongovernmental organizations and that without this, the demonstrations would have died out and the government would have survived. This is not a new narrative on the Russians' part. They also claimed that the Orange Revolution had the same roots. The West denies this. What is important is that the Russians believe this. That means that they believe that Western intelligence has the ability to destabilize Ukraine and potentially other countries in the Russian sphere of influence, or even Russia itself. This makes the Russians wary of U.S. power.

The Russians also are not convinced that they have to do anything. Apart from their theory on Western intelligence, they know that the Ukrainians are fractious and that mounting an uprising is very different than governing. The Russians have raised the price of natural gas by 80 percent for Ukraine, and the International Monetary Fund's bailout of Ukrainian sovereign debt carries with it substantial social and economic pain. As this pain sets in this summer, and the romantic recollection of the uprising fades, the Russians expect a backlash against the West and also will use their own influence, overt and covert, to shape the Ukrainian government. Seizing eastern Ukraine would cut against this strategy. The Russians want the pro-Russian regions voting in Ukrainian elections, sending a strong opposition to Kiev. Slicing off all or part of eastern Ukraine would be irrational.

Other options for the Russians are not inviting. There has been talk of action in Moldova from Transdniestria. But while it is possible for Russian forces there to act in Moldova, supplies for the region run through Ukraine. In the event of a conflict, the Russians must assume that the Ukrainians would deny access. The Russians could possibly force their way in, but then a measured action in Moldova would result in an invasion of Ukraine -- and put the Russians back where they started.

Action in the Baltics is possible; the Kremlin could encourage Russian minorities to go into the streets. But the Baltics are in NATO, and the response would be unpredictable. The Russians want to hold their sphere of influence in Ukraine without breaking commercial and political ties with Europe, particularly with Germany. Russian troops moving into the Baltics would challenge Russia's relationship with Europe.

Negotiations to relieve the crisis make sense for the Russians because of the risks involved in potential actions and because they think they can recover their influence in Ukraine after the economic crunch hits and they begin doling out cash to ease the pain.
The U.S. Perspective

The United States sees the Russians as having two levers. Militarily, the Russians are stronger than the Americans in their region. The United States had no practical military options in Crimea, just as they had none in Georgia in 2008. The United States would take months to build up forces in the event of a major conflict in Eurasia. Preparation for Desert Storm took six months, and the invasion of Iraq in 2003 took similar preparation. With such a time frame the Russians would have achieved their aims and the only option the Americans would have would be an impossible one: mounting an invasion of Russian-held territory. The Americans do not want the Russians to exercise military options, because it would reveal the U.S. inability to mount a timely response. It would also reveal weaknesses in NATO.

The Americans also do not want to test the Germans since they don't know which way Berlin will move. In a sense, the Germans began the crisis by confronting the Ukrainians' refusal to proceed with an EU process and by supporting one of the leaders of the uprising both before and after the protests. But since then, the Germans have fallen increasingly quiet and the person they supported, Vitali Klitschko, has dropped out of the race for the Ukrainian presidency. The Germans have pulled back.

The Germans do not want a little Cold War to break out. Constant conflict to their east would exacerbate the European Union's instability and could force Germany into more assertive actions that it really does not want to undertake. Berlin is very busy trying to stabilize the European Union and hold together Southern and Central Europe in the face of massive economic dislocation and the emergence of an increasingly visible radical right. It does not need a duel with Russia. The Germans also receive a third of their energy from Russia. This is of mutual benefit, but the Germans are not certain that Russia will see the mutual benefits during a crisis. It is a risk the Germans cannot afford to take.

If Germany is cautious, however the passions in the region flow, the Central Europeans must be cautious as well. Poland cannot simply disregard Germany, for example. The United States might create bilateral relations in the region, as I suggested would happen in due course, but for the moment, the Americans are not ready to act at all, let alone in a region where two powers -- Russia and Germany -- might oppose American action.

Washington, like Moscow, has limited options. Even assuming the Russian claim about U.S. influence via nongovernmental organizations is true, they have played that card and it will be difficult to play again as austerity takes hold. Therefore, the latest events are logical. The Russians have turned to the Americans to discuss easing the crisis, asking for the creation of a federation in Ukraine, and there have been suggestions of monitors being deployed as well.

The Significance of the Negotiations

What is most interesting in this is that with the next act being played out, the Russians and Americans have reached out to each other. The Russians have talked to the Europeans, of course, but as discussions reach the stage of defining the future and options, Lavrov calls Kerry and Kerry answers the phone.

This tells us something important on how the world works. I have laid out the weakness of both countries, but even in the face of this weakness, the Russians know that they cannot extract themselves from the crisis without American cooperation, and the United States understands that it will need to deal with the Russians and cannot simply impose an outcome as it sometimes did in the region in the 1990s.

Part of this might be habits learned in the Cold War. But it is more than that. If the Russians want to reach a solution to the Ukrainian problem that protects their national interests without forcing them beyond a level of risk they consider acceptable, the only country they can talk to is the United States. There is no single figure in Europe who speaks for the European states on a matter of this importance. The British speak for the British, the French for the French, the Germans for the Germans and the Poles for the Poles. In negotiating with the Europeans, you must first allow the Europeans to negotiate among themselves. After negotiations, individual countries -- or perhaps the European Union -- might, for example, send monitors. But Europe is an abstraction when it comes to power politics.

The Russians called the Americans because they understood that whatever the weakness of the United States at this moment and in this place, the potential power of the United States is substantially greater than theirs. On a matter of such significance to the Russians, failing to deal with the United States would be dangerous, and dealing with them first would be the best path to solving the problem.

A U.S.-Russian agreement on defusing the crisis likely would bring the Germans and the rest into the deal. Germany wants a solution that does not disrupt relations with Russia and does not strain relations with Central Europe. The Germans need good relations with the Central Europeans in the context of the European Union. The Americans want good relations, but have little dependence on Central Europe at the moment. Thus, the Americans potentially can give more than the Europeans, even if the Europeans could have organized themselves to negotiate.

Finally, the United States has global interests that the Russians can affect. Iran is the most obvious one. Thus, the Russians can link issues in Ukraine to issues in Iran to extract a better deal with the United States. A negotiation with the United States has a minimal economic component and maximum political and military components. There are places where the United States wants Russian help on these sorts of issues. They can deal.

Divergent U.S. Concerns

Most important, the United States is not clear on what it wants from the Russians. In part it wants to create a constitutional democracy in Ukraine. The Russians actually do not object to that so long as Ukraine does not join NATO or the European Union, but the Russians are also aware that building a constitutional democracy in Ukraine is a vast and possibly futile undertaking. They know that the government is built on dangerously shifting economic and social sands. There are parts of the U.S. government that are concerned with Russia emerging as a regional hegemon, and there are parts of the U.S. government still obsessed with the Middle East that see the Russians as challengers in the region, while others see them as potential partners.

As sometimes happens in the United States, there is complex ideological and institutional diversity. The State Department and Defense Department rarely see anything the same way, and different offices of each have competing views, and then there is Congress. That makes the United States in some ways as difficult to deal with as the Europeans. But it also opens opportunities for manipulation in the course of the negotiation.

Still, in cases of the highest national significance, whatever the diversity in views, in the end the president or some other dominant figure can speak authoritatively. In this case it appears to be Kerry who, buffeted by the divergent views on human rights and power politics, can still speak for the only power that can enter into an agreement and create the coalition in Europe and in Kiev to accept the agreement.

Russia suffered a massive reversal after former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich fell. It acted not so much to reverse the defeat as to shape perceptions of its power. Moscow's power is real but insufficient to directly reverse events by occupying Kiev. It will need to use Ukraine's economic weakness, political fragmentation and time to try to reassert its position. In order to do this, it needs a negotiated solution that it hopes will be superseded by events. To have that solution, Moscow needs a significant negotiating partner. The United States is the only one available. And for all its complexity and oddities, if it can be persuaded to act, it alone can provide the stable platform that Russia now needs.

The United States is not ready to concede that it has entered a period during which competition with Russia will be a defining element in its foreign policy. Its internal logic is not focused on Russia, nor are internal bureaucratic interests aligned. There is an argument to be made that it is not in the U.S. interest to end the Ukrainian crisis, that allowing Russia to go deeper into the Ukrainian morass will sap its strength and abort the emerging competition before it really starts. But the United States operates by its own process, and it is not yet ready to think in terms of weakening Russia, and given the United States' relative isolation, postponement is not a bad idea.

Therefore, the negotiations show promise. But more important, the Russians have shown us the way the world still works. When something must get done, the number to call is still in the United States.

_http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/russia-and-united-states-negotiate-future-ukraine