I think you meant POTS (Prayer of the Soul)? Or are you meditating on Trump or Biden?
Romantic Fiction, Reality Shaping and The Work
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
I think you meant POTS (Prayer of the Soul)? Or are you meditating on Trump or Biden?
That's great, I think! I can relate. The past takes on a new meaning quite often, and when you can see others making similar mistakes, you don't judge them as harshly as yourself. And they too, managed to grow from their experiences in the books, so when there is a will, there is a way.
Maybe as you keep reading, something will start really making sense. And perhaps having a personal thread where you can share more? It can always help other people too!
I absolutely loved these 3 books. Though the record of bringing me to tears goes to Scarlett Scott's "Marquess of Mayhem" and one by Stacey Reid. But Elisa Braden is funny, insightful and her series are truly "Rescued from Ruin"! "The Devil is a Marquess" had a brilliant ending and just when I thought it couldn't possibly get any better after that, then follows "When a Girl Loves an Earl"- a story that I thought I wouldn't like from just from reading the back cover. It turned out to be one of my favorites too. I read one more, the novella "Twelve Nights as His Mistress" and then I took a detour with Julia Quinn - The Bridgertons, which I wasn't able to put down. Even though Julia Quinn does cover simple understandings in quite a mesmerizing way, at this stage I found it easier to read than some of Elisa Braden's stories.
I'm now in the Bridgerton prequels - The Rokesbys. The last one I read was "The Girl with the Make-Believe Husband". I couldn't help but sympathize with the heroine's rationalizations as to why she couldn't tell the truth about her situation. Knowing that certain situations were unfixable (this point of view perhaps coming from a past life self), it was always very healing to see how the story had a positive resolution. Some stories were more believable than others, at least for a recalcitrant belief center - usually by the heroes choice to love, be courageous and stand for the truth, instead of living in lies or rationalizations or fears. When the story comes to an end, you realize that it really was not supposed to be so damn difficult. It's really a simple process and no rocket science. It goes back as to how the Cs phrase it "simple understandings". Though I guess that suffering is unavoidable if one is to learn.
Q: (L) What kind of lessons are we talking about here?
A: Karmic and simple understandings.
Q: (L) What are the key elements of these understandings, and are they fairly universal?
A: They are universal
I'll pick up Elisa Braden again after finishing the Rokesby series. I have a feeling of the adventure ahead will be very rich indeed.
I remember reading that research back then when it was published. It makes me wonder if that is the reason why my reality changed so much after I started reading "fiction for the soul". I was just aiming for something to feel the void back then in 2003 and just picked up books everybody else was reading - bestsellers. Shortly afterwards, I was really searching and came across the Cassiopaean website. Fast forward many years, and now we have this reading project. I'm happy to see people joining the adventure.
There are stories that definitely resonated with what could only be past life issues. Experiencing and exploring past issues with a resolution as light at the end of the tunnel helps us to rise up in what can be best phrased as "frequency resonance vibration", making it possible to shed light to past sufferings with "simple understandings".
I have had the opportunity to do past life integrations of experiences that could only be described as "how do you heal from something like that?" I suspect we all have our own versions of that puzzlement. Well, I have found that this reading project is surely one way to do just that. We are truly here to learn about love.
I also noticed something else. I've been reading notes that I accumulated over the years on dreams, experiences, etc. in search for clues or insights that may shed light on past mistakes and as a form of a life recapitulation. I put it off for the longest time, the major excuse was that you just don't want to recap past mistakes and the way you once were. With the current reading project, I've noticed that I don't fuss about it anymore. No problem, let's see what I was up to in such and such a year with no judgment. I'm surprised that it hasn't proven to be the chore that I thought it was going to be. On the contrary, sometimes I look forward to it and have lots of insights that I clearly missed in the past. Or like the Cs once said:
[950723] "A: You see when you speed too quickly in the process of learning and gathering knowledge, it is like skipping down the road without pausing to reflect on the ground beneath you. One misses the gold coins and the gemstones contained within the cracks in the road."
Yes, that is also how I have been thinking. It is said that after death, people pass through a life review, going to all these places and times in their lives of interest, places of pain, unresolved issues, hurts both to others and to themselves etc. By reading these novels, we are possibly able to extract the lessons while still in the body so that the life review will be much faster. In to that picture comes potentially past lives where issues and karma is still stuck and reading these novels and experiencing them on an emotional level, karmic stuff might just get resolved.
Having read 30+ novels, I find myself going through so many things of my past including childhood dynamics that it has been quite a roller coaster. Seeing myself in ways I hadn't thought of and gaining understanding with a distance of why I acted the way I did.
Balogh is also my favorite as she is great at exploring the getting to the nitty gritty of the emotional traumas and past transgressions which are holding the characters back from living their full potential in the present.
Indeed and doing those visualizations in one's own mind and brewing over them has a very different impact that just watching a 2 hour movie where issues are rarely touched on at much depth.
Having decided to read the Bible in preparation for Laura's book, the romance novels are a great respite from all the smiting, death and destruction which Yahweh and his stiff-necked people wreck on all the other people in their foundation myth. It is like coming up for a breath of fresh air after having suffered a bout of sulphurous air
It is truly the direct opposite approach to life. In the bible, the people stay as children, are irresponsible authoritarian slaves and solve issues by revenge, bloodlust, killing, destruction and mayhem in a neverending cycle of violence. In the romance novels people learn to grow up and take responsibility along with caring for others and solving issues via dialogue, understanding and mutual respect. Very life affirming and hope giving.
I found online Croatian translation of the book „Seven nights in a rouge bed“ after I‘ve read original one - it was awful!!! Like someone just put it through translator with no emotions or anything, completely out of the „spirit“ of the language.... I‘ve read first page and was turned down. So, I don’t know of the quality of the other books but that was my (only) experience with these books in our native language.Today I investigated my local library aaaaand I found 23 books from the list
I'm in !!!
Also I’ve searched to buy some books for my godmother who loves romanse novels and i.e. couldn’t find any of the M.Balogh books to buy on Cro online book stores.
I do hope that some exist in libraries because IMO she is a must read heavy category of this project....
This drama in this book involves two brothers of which one was adopted into the family of the other. They both go to the Crimean War (1853-1856), see also the entries in Britannica, History.com, or Historic-uk.com and both fight in the same battles.
The historical background of the novel
Mary Balogh has this to say about the background:
This is pretty close to what The Royal Collection Trust has to say:
For a map:
Another passage is:
Many thousands of the wounded who wanted desperately to live did not do so. He did not even want to live and yet did.
He cursed the surgeon who would have amputated both his arm and his leg, and threatened him with death or worse if he did so.
Both balls were removed at the hospital at Balaclava. And then the fever set in, the fever that killed far more men than either the wounds or the shock of amputation ever did. The fever made him quite unaware that he was moved yet again and set on board ship and transferred to the barrack hospital at Scutari. Perhaps he would have died there—almost certainly he would have done so—if there had not been a group of lady nurses newly arrived from England who insisted on organization and cleanliness and air and space.
Even so it was amazing that he lived. One of the nurses—their leader—warned him that he might not.
"Your wounds are healing nicely, Major," Miss Nightingale said to him quite matter-of-factly some weeks after his arrival, "and the fever has receded. But you are dying. You know that, don't you?"
For all the care she showed her patients, she was not a woman to mince words. Major Lord Tavistock only just stopped himself from telling her to go to hell. She was a lady after all.
"Only you can heal yourself the rest of the way," she said. "Your real wounds are ones I have no skill with, nor the surgeons either.
You cannot forget all the killing?" Her voice was suddenly gentle, understanding.
"I killed my brother," he told her with closed eyes.
She did not answer him for a long time, and he did not open his eyes to see if she had moved away.
"I do not know how literally you mean that, Major," she said. "Do you have a wife? Or a mother and father? Or any family? Anyone to grieve for you when you are dead? Is it not self-indulgent to die when you might live?"
When he finally opened his eyes, she was gone.
He cursed the surgeon who would have amputated both his arm and his leg, and threatened him with death or worse if he did so.
Both balls were removed at the hospital at Balaclava. And then the fever set in, the fever that killed far more men than either the wounds or the shock of amputation ever did. The fever made him quite unaware that he was moved yet again and set on board ship and transferred to the barrack hospital at Scutari. Perhaps he would have died there—almost certainly he would have done so—if there had not been a group of lady nurses newly arrived from England who insisted on organization and cleanliness and air and space.
Even so it was amazing that he lived. One of the nurses—their leader—warned him that he might not.
"Your wounds are healing nicely, Major," Miss Nightingale said to him quite matter-of-factly some weeks after his arrival, "and the fever has receded. But you are dying. You know that, don't you?"
For all the care she showed her patients, she was not a woman to mince words. Major Lord Tavistock only just stopped himself from telling her to go to hell. She was a lady after all.
"Only you can heal yourself the rest of the way," she said. "Your real wounds are ones I have no skill with, nor the surgeons either.
You cannot forget all the killing?" Her voice was suddenly gentle, understanding.
"I killed my brother," he told her with closed eyes.
She did not answer him for a long time, and he did not open his eyes to see if she had moved away.
"I do not know how literally you mean that, Major," she said. "Do you have a wife? Or a mother and father? Or any family? Anyone to grieve for you when you are dead? Is it not self-indulgent to die when you might live?"
When he finally opened his eyes, she was gone.
I guess the conversation between "Florence Nightingale" and the wounded hero below the spoiler fits with the above description. "Lady with the lamp" can mean much; a "wise virgin" she probably was.
"O, what a tangled web we weave"
At the beginning of the novel, there is a quote:
Sir Walter Scott, (1771 -1832) was a Scottish author and novelist. The quote is from the poem Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17. see Guthenberg.org or Wikisource and published in 1808 during the larger Regency Era (1795-1837). It is in fact itself a historical romance placed around 1513 and written as a poem. For a summary of the plot see this Wiki. The quote then reminded me of the word "Tangled" appearing in some of the transcripts:
November 23, 1996
April 12, 1997
October 4, 1997
The last one comes closest, but the others are not without relevance.
Love and war
This book was on so many level very tangled indeed beginning with how even to find a copy, but also the plot on its own, and how I reacted to it. There was a scene so funny I laughed out loud, as I have not laughed in a while, and others that were different. The theme of love complicated by war strikes a chord, or is it a whole long drawn sad melody in a minor key? To elaborate on the allusion of "minor key", I'll quote this page:
Even if this particular novel is a Victorian romance novel, many of the Regency Romance novels have themes related to gain and loss as a result of participation in a war. Examples could be The Survivor Series or the Web of Love by Mary Balogh which many others have commented on. One way of looking at war and love is that when a soldier goes to war, there is the obvious risk of being forever separated from loved ones, but even if the soldier survives then how will he continue living with the physical and psychological trauma. Apart from the concern of the soldier and his family and friends, there is also the other side of a battlefield or conflict. When a soldier kills or injures someone as a result of what he/she is asked to do, then established relationships are upset among those whom the soldier is fighting against. There are losses on both sides though, at the same time, there are also new relations being formed, and from this perspective, it all becomes very complex. Contemplating the complexity of what happens on both sides of a war, is a bit like zooming out from a unit, the solider, to the whole global society involved. Will awareness of a global perspective help me to understand and feel the characters of the next romance novel involving love that was complicated by war?
Some of the complications in war are not brought about by what the soldiers are asked to do, but by what they choose to do in particular situations. This is also evident in this story; it is what makes it so tangled.
If you choose not to continue your series, which you still may do, then what about short series or a standalone where you do not feel committed to a long series of books? Mary Balogh has a few duos for instance and even if her novels can be ripping, she also tends to give supportive comments through her secondary characters, at least in some of the books.
When I began this project I recalled reading the book Women Who Run With Wolves which has stories with commentary. This memory resurfaced when reading the first book in Mary Balogh's Bedwyn Prequel, One Night For Love where the heroine is a pretty instinctive and spontaneous woman, and rather a contrast to the heroine of the second book who is more like a master of cool analytic intellect. Though they both become more whole through the novels, they retain their uniqueness. The Bedwyn prequel is a gateway to the Survivor series and a few others.
There is also Elisa Braden who prefaces the chapters in "I read Ever Yours, Annabelle: Rescued from Ruin Prequel" which I read when it was a standalone, with pithy comments which at least for some chapters leave a hint about what is to happen.
Anne Campbell also has a standalone, Untouched, which I would read before her Son of Sins series which is six books all counted, in case you do not like her. Though Untouched is gloomy, even scary at places, before it lightens up at the end.
In general, I find it very supportive to read the posts in this thread, though I am a bit worried it will eventually grow beyond the length of the Corona thread, which by now has more than 1130 pages, because then I will have to give up reading them all. At any rate, one can always check a book or author by using the search function to learn more about what others experienced reading a particular author or book. You might try words like light, heavy, funny, humor/humour, sad, awful, harrowing, difficult, easy, wonderful or beautiful to see what books have merited which adjectives, and one could add trauma and scenes, though these are nouns, but all depending on where you would like to explore or perhaps postpone until later. Of course one can also add the names of particular forum members if one wishes to sift through a large amount of data.
Gracie's books have a sense of humor, the Merridew Sisters is a good series, and you already read book 2 The Perfect Waltz. Also, it'll be an interesting experiment to see if any of the books impact you more or less. For example, book 3 The Perfect Stranger was the least interesting to me out of the 4 books, but it was Laura's favorite.
Thanks marek760. The uptaded list below:
| Anna Campbell | Sons of Sin | 1 | Seven Nights in a Rogue's Bed | Siedem nocy z rozpustnikiem |
| Anna Campbell | Sons of Sin | 2 | A Rake's Midnight Kiss | Pocałunek rozpustnika |
| Caroline Linden | Wagers of Sin | 1 | My Once and Future Duke | Mój raz na zawsze książę |
| Eloisa James | The Wildes of Lindow Castle | 1 | Wilde in Love | Zakochani do szaleństwa |
| Eloisa James | The Wildes of Lindow Castle | 2 | Too Wilde to Wed | Zbyt szalony na męża |
| Eloisa James | The Wildes of Lindow Castle | 3 | Born to be Wilde | Szalone pocałunki |
| Grace Burrowes | True Gentlemen | 1 | The Duke's Disaster | Porażka księcia tom1, Porażka księcia tom2 |
| Julia Quinn | Bridgerton Series | 1 | The Duke and I | Mój książę |
| Julia Quinn | Bridgerton Series | 2 | The Viscount Who Loved Me | Ktoś mnie pokochał |
| Julia Quinn | Bridgerton Series | 3 | An Offer From A Gentleman | Propozycja dżentelmena |
| Julia Quinn | Bridgerton Series | 4 | Romancing Mr. Bridgerton | Miłosne tajemnice |
| Julia Quinn | Bridgerton Series | 5 | To Sir Phillip, With Love | Oświadczyny |
| Julia Quinn | Bridgerton Series | 6 | When He Was Wicked | Grzesznik nawrócony |
| Julia Quinn | Bridgerton Series | 7 | It’s In His Kiss | Magia pocałunku |
| Julia Quinn | Bridgerton Series | 8 | On The Way to the Wedding | Ślubny skandal |
| Julia Quinn | Rokesby Series | 1 | Because of Miss Bridgerton | Wszystko o pannie Bridgerton, czyli jeden pocałunek |
| Julia Quinn | Smythe-Smith Quartet | 1 | Just Like Heaven | Jak w niebie |
| Julia Quinn | Smythe-Smith Quartet | 2 | A Night Like This | Tylko ta noc |
| Julia Quinn | Smythe-Smith Quartet | 3 | The Sum Of All Kisses | Wszystkie nasze pocałunki |
| Julia Quinn | Smythe-Smith Quartet | 4 | The Secrets of Sir Richard Kenworthy | Sekrety małżeństwa |
| Mary Balogh | Bedwyn Prequel | 1 | One night for love | Noc miłości |
| Mary Balogh | Bedwyn Prequel | 2 | A Summer to Remember | Niezapomniane lato |
| Mary Balogh | Dark Angel Series | 1 | Dark Angel/Lord Carew's Bride | Mroczny anioł |
| Mary Balogh | The Ideal Wife/Stapleton-Downes | 1 | The Ideal Wife | Idealna żona |
| Mary Balogh | Four Horsemen trilogy | 1 | Indiscreet | Niedyskrecje |
| Mary Balogh | Four Horsemen trilogy | 2 | Unforgiven | Nie do przebaczenia |
| Mary Balogh | Four Horsemen trilogy | 3 | Irresistable | Zauroczeni |
| Mary Balogh | Signet Regency Romance | 2 | Christmas Belle | Gwiazdka |
| Mary Balogh | The Heartless/Silent Melody duo | 1 | Heartless | Bez serca |
| Mary Balogh | The Heartless/Silent Melody duo | 2 | Silent Melody | Pieśń bez słów |
| Mary Balogh | The Huxtable Quintet | 1 | First Comes Marriage | Najpierw ślub |
| Mary Balogh | The Huxtable Quintet | 2 | Then Comes Seduction | Potem uwodzenie |
| Mary Balogh | The Huxtable Quintet | 3 | At Last Comes Love | W końcu miłość |
| Mary Balogh | The Huxtable Quintet | 4 | Seducing an Angel | Uwieść anioła |
| Mary Balogh | 1 | The Secret Pearl | Tajemnicza perła |
Thank you for sharing. Your idea about continuing to read appears as a good strategy. Perhaps little by little your heart will find healing and what appears incredible will become less incredible. Below I have taken different angles to think about "incredulous that the men love these women so deeply". Maybe what I will write is included within your words "Intellectually I understand men as being capable of loving" probably a lot. I sense a lot of pain within "I’m totally lost with it, I’ll just keep reading I guess. I feel like I have lived with a broken heart my entire life." I apologize if I have completely missed it. if that is the case, maybe someone comes along in three years and finds something. Who knows?
Considering and choosing a working hypothesis
Knowledge often develops by stating a working hypothesis, gathering data and analyse if the data provides evidence for or against the working hypothesis.
In this case, a working hypothesis might be something like:
'It is possible "that the men love these women so deeply."'
If one does not consider that a starting point to one's liking, then one could begin with the opposite:
'It is not possible "that the men love these women so deeply."'
I was a bit biased when I began this post, so I wrote a few paragraphs in case one would wish to evaluate the first one, but I have also made comments along the way to accommodate the second choice. I don't go too seriously into the arguments, it is more a collection of possibilities and perspectives one might take into consideration.
Working hypothesis: 'It is possible "that the men love these women so deeply."'
One could imagine, what kind of love that might be, if one takes a philosophical or psychological angle. In the novels as well as in real life, distinctions are made between the love among friends, between intimate lovers, family members etc. Psychology Today in the section about RELATIONSHIPS, has an article that goes into the forms of love recognized by the Greeks:
For similar articles one could try:
The 8 Different Types of Love + the Perfect Combo for You prepared by a company.
The 7+ Types Of Love You’ll Probably Experience In This Life from thoughtcatalogue.com which also includes a list of 12 forms described with usual English words.
Moving beyond a discussion of how may words and types of love there might be, or if love even exists, there is another article from Psychology Today that goes into describing symptoms of love that shares similarities with that which might be found between partners: This Is How You Know It's Love Defining love can help you figure out if you're in love.
Leaving space for the materialist and postmodernist
If one seriously doubts the possibility of deep love from men, then one could go the route of adopting Darwinism, Neo-Darwinism or materialism along the lines of Richard Dawkins and his book The Selfish Gene. There is a whole thread that discusses this and related questions Darwin's Black Box - Michael J. Behe and Intelligent Design
Perhaps also a few postmodernists could advance arguments that deep love does not exist. They might favour the idea that love is a social construct, a word invested with meaning by people whose brains only exist because of a Big Bang a few billion years ago, and that love on its own has no objective existence. Honestly, I don't know what they would say, but there are a few threads on related subjects like
Challenging Postmodernism: Philosophy and the Politics of Truth - David Detmer
Explaining Postmodernism by Stephen Hicks
And Google Scholar also has a few articles or links like:
Postmodern Love: Questioning the Metaphysics of Desire
Or look into what passes off for a postmodern historical romance:
Fragmentation in Postmodern Novels
Love and research
Leaving the area of philosophy and psychology one could look into brain research to see if there is any evidence of what love might be and how it might express itself:
Men and women process emotions differently This may be important to intellectually understand why men and women at time misunderstand each other, but perhaps not surprising considering that the physiologies are different and react differently.
Finally, there was this video which appears to cover several areas: Love, Reality, and the Time of Transition
The last four links were found on SOTT, but if one searches for "love" on SOTT, there are 2500+ article out of which probably a few dozens will be really good!
Ideas for a discussion of which working hypothesis is better
We had initially two options for a working hypothesis:
It is possible "that the men love these women so deeply."
or:
It is not possible "that the men love these women so deeply."
One could spend time arguing over which might be the better idea, "that the men love these women so deeply." or not, and eventually conclude to one's satisfaction. What conclusion one reaches, will, I think, depend a lot on the general view of creation and man that one accepts. Alternatively, one could leave this discussion for now, and consider that since these novels deal with the hurts and trauma of people and if reading and following the internal dialogues of these novels may help us to process similar or resonating types of trauma withing ourselves, then the reading of the recommended romance titles might assist emotional healing and the reassemblage of the shards of varying degrees of broken hearts. If we can also agree that emotional health is beneficial for nourishing, friendly relationships, which again are a good basis for hurting others less, then what has one got to lose, even if one hesitates to believe "that the men love these women so deeply."? In short, happy reading!
"Seven Nights ..." and another book by the same author, and some books by Mary Balogh, Jennifer Ashley, Julia Quine, Eloise James, you can find here:
Anna Campbell i njegova djela - Knjižara Ljevak
Mary Balogh
Julia Quinn i njegova djela - Knjižara Ljevak
Jennifer Ashley - Naklada Neptun
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Some of these books are not books that are on our list, and the translated title is sometimes not the same as the original, so it should be compared to the default on our list.
