Romantic Fiction, Reality Shaping and The Work

[Laura]

I´ve also finished yesterday Balog´s Web trilogy.
I don´t even know where to start with this post, this trilogy left really deep impact on me.

<snip>

It was exactly a torture for me to read it, with a difference I didn´t wan´t to throw my tablet - but I cried - it was not just crying, but shaking and sobbing during the last few chapters of the Devils Web (from the duke´s ball till the end of the book). I was so stressed out with so many memories and regrets coming to the surface that I couldn´t control myself.

I really don´t know what to say any more, I´m still under the strong impression with this experience.

Yes, I cried over James and Madeline too. It was just heartbreaking what was done to him as a child and young man and how it stunted and twisted him. He was so naive and impressionable and idealistic. And the evil psychopathic types, along with his father, who was really twisted too, just chewed him up and spit him out.

 

[PERLOU]

Je viens de terminer "Follement amoureuse dans la série Les fils du péché d'Anna Campbell"...
J'ai cru que je n'arriverai pas à la fin...
Je commence donc "Le Scélérat de la même série Les fils du péché d'Anna Campbell"

I have just finished "Madly in love in the series The Sons of Sin by Anna Campbell"...
I thought I would not make it to the end...
So I start "The Villain in the same series The Sons of Sin of Anna Campbell"...

 

[Trobar]

So, it seems that it might be possible to assist in altering reality by undertaking activities that remove fear, intimidation, inhibition and even entering into such realities via positive dissociation. These books, with all the qualities I’ve described above, appear to be a darn good way to do that. It’s not “heavy” literature, but entertainment of a very specific sort that engages emotions and depicts very positive role models and behaviors.

I have not read any of the books you have read and reviewed in this thread, and was wondering what your thoughts are regarding "positive dissociation" generated by our own imagination versus reading the stories created and published by the imagination of someone else.

 

[Tauriel]

I have not read any of the books you have read and reviewed in this thread, and was wondering what your thoughts are regarding "positive dissociation" generated by our own imagination versus reading the stories created and published by the imagination of someone else.

I suppose if your own imagination can lead you deep into your unconscious it might work.... I doubt it though.
Most of us are experiencing deep stuff getting triggered to come to the surface to be felt, acknowledged and worked on.
I for one are remembering things I didn't even know happened to me.
Of course I can only speak for myself but my own imagination would only lead me down well trodden paths.

 

[whitecoast]

I have not read any of the books you have read and reviewed in this thread, and was wondering what your thoughts are regarding "positive dissociation" generated by our own imagination versus reading the stories created and published by the imagination of someone else.

Further back it’s noted that Laura was very particular in recommending the specific books she does, for the effects they have on the unconscious and depicting positive sexual and emotional relationships and how those energies can be utilized to make a better world. Obviously she or no one else knows what your unconscious contains so it cannot be determined whether your unconscious is good in the sort of ways mentioned. I think diving into the reading and just noticing and reporting the effects the books have on you will be helpful to you and others, especially since it can provide clues on how your unconscious as-is relates to it all. Hope you find this helpful. Are you an author or otherwise creative?

 

[Martina]

I'm going with the web trilogy, since you've left good comments. Got 2 first books.

 

[John G]

I'm having problems getting my library card pin reset but once someone figures out that, I think it's that high school rejection I need to revisit since I kind of already have just reading this thread.

I have not read any of the books you have read and reviewed in this thread, and was wondering what your thoughts are regarding "positive dissociation" generated by our own imagination versus reading the stories created and published by the imagination of someone else.

I did that as I kind of mentioned earlier. In my case it was obvious where things were headed. Just this past Christmas when my Mom (thankfully we visited at Christmas instead of waiting until summer) drove past the street sign where she lived, I got a tad sad. I against popular advice started with Heartless so I kind of took an immediate break and went back to processing things. I started there due to it being the only series (short series of two) that didn't have most of the books on a waiting list. Also now have another technical issue since my kindle for pc updated and now won't work on my Windows 7 PC. I had stopped reading but was going back to reread parts.

I think journaling about things to say at the time (decades ago for me) or if meeting now might be good (did a bit of this though just in thought) and imagining modified interactions could help. I had been lamenting the lack of nice starting memories (I won't go into what I was thinking of as nice at the time) and got an odd buzz in the head and for a very split second it was like I was seeing the original event before it went back to being the memory I had had for a long. Don't know how I forgot it; it was much better than the memory I had been trying to remember (I have a hazy memory of something happening but no actual memory of the happening except maybe the very beginning and very end).

I'm not sure how great bringing this back is.

 

[NewEngland Seeker]

I have not read any of the books you have read and reviewed in this thread, and was wondering what your thoughts are regarding "positive dissociation" generated by our own imagination versus reading the stories created and published by the imagination of someone else.

I empathize with you on this. This exercise has opened up my past sexual behaviors to a mirror that I have to look at with objective honesty and it is painful. I know I would use my imagination to avoid this pain and I suspect you would do the same. If you want to experience this painful truth then you have to dive in, the water is hot/cold/just right. You will experience more than you want to but learning is fun, even when it hurts!

 

[Mari]

I was thinking yesterday the whole day about my reaction to the book and here are my thoughts.

All of us here have a lot of different issues we have to work, so each of us reacts differently to one and the same book.
When this project started, I jumped in with huge interest and picked up books that were "hot" at the time. "Sons of Sin" series, that is.
I´ve noticed that some members were having problems reading it, especially when it came to sex scenes, feeling repulsed and uncomfortable, while for me it was quite entertaining and very enjoyable.
"The 1797 Series" was pretty much in the same vain.

Looking back, I cannot say those books gave me some deeper emotional reactions. Reactions I had were physical and emotion bouquet can be summarized to one word - excited.

But then I switched to Balog´s books. She puts focus on pure emotion, on inner struggle and her description of the characters gives me more internal struggle. It started with "Courting Julia" trilogy, not that I realized at the time.
Not that she is so much better writer than the others, it´s not that, but somehow trough her books I´m confronted with some deep struggle.
This doesn´t mean that her books will have the same effect on others.

After "Courting Julia" I switched to "The 1797 Series" and the series left me again with emotional "nothing" compared to "Web of..." or great finale of "The Huxtable Quintet".

Don´t get me wrong; both "Sons of Sin" and "The Club 1797 " are excellent series where one can learn MANY things in terms of relationships, honesty and love. But they just didn´t have that stirring effect on me. Oh, I hope you get what I mean......

Again to quote Seamas to make myself clearer

I was thinking about the discussion we've been having about this exercise and how some of you have been struggling with it a bit. FWIW as I understand it based on what Laura has written and from my own experience reading a few of these books the exercise is meant to stir up powerful emotions and awaken the sleeping emotional center. This creates an opportunity for resolution of unresolved feelings via the resolution of the storyline of the book. You don't have to do anything other than read the books and let yourself get lost in the storyline.

IOW its an emotional exercise, not an intellectual exercise. People with overdeveloped intellectual centers and sleeping emotional centers are going to struggle with it and that's part of the point, OSIT. Some have done more work in this area than others, and so will have an "easier" experience. It will also get easier as you read more books and open up more.

Balog´s books created that stirring effect for me personally. For someone else, it will be some other book.

Also, I see this project is a way of intentional suffering - that´s in the first place.
And I believe that one has to find his/hers "flavor" of the book that disturbs person the most - and that is what you should keep poking and stirring the water, and see what will come up.

I have not read any of the books you have read and reviewed in this thread, and was wondering what your thoughts are regarding "positive dissociation" generated by our own imagination versus reading the stories created and published by the imagination of someone else.

Having said all above: no, I don´t think it would work out.

First, I couldn´t in hundred years make up the story Balogh (or any other writer) is writing.

Second,

I know I would use my imagination to avoid this pain and I suspect you would do the same. If you want to experience this painful truth then you have to dive in, the water is hot/cold/just right.

Exactly.

 

[Ketone Cop]

This is going to be a hard post to write, to get across what I mean to share after reading Ashley's "The Madness of Lord Ian Maczkenzie" and the next book, "Lady Isabella's Scandalous Marriage". Suffice it to say, that first book hit a "home run" with me re: the character of Ian Mackenzie and his eccentricities - many of which happen to be mine. I shared much of this in the swamp recently, as that book hit me like a "Mack" truck.

I have had to sit back and think about what I mean to share regarding what these books have done for me, and TO me, and what to say about my own insights after reading them. I think I may have some valid things to say that make some sense, not only of my own experiences, but also why this genre of books even exists as they do and why they are so popular. But I have to hedge this by also saying I'm not sure anything I have to say will be novel, as I've learned often that I seem to be behind the learning curve on this forum at times. But I will try anyway; if nothing else I know y'all will provide me with links and support if I am wrong.

I will start by saying I will not use the "spoiler" button here; what I am seeing is a feature that seems to encompass many, if not most of these books (and I have perused others recommended here just to see if my thoughts generally hold true for my premise).

I think, based upon my own personal experiences and from what I have read, that these books highlight a very common theme that is rampant among humanity. It is one that has in fact been purposefully applied and which has been intentionally used to separate people from their heart centers, and this may be a "feature" of humanity probably since the "fall". And this separation was intended to keep people from connecting on a heart level with not only others, but themselves. I will start by sharing my own experience.

I have shared much of this in the swamp, so I will only relate the most meaningful and applicable parts here.

I was born to a family where my father did not want me. He was only 19; my mother 16. But he had a Catholic background, so he was compelled to marry my mother. From that time forward, he wanted no part of me. And I distinctly remember one night in particular, when I crawled up into his lap to kiss him good night - and he struck me down. I went to bed crying into my beloved pink bunny rabbit doll, and he came in and took it away from me, threatening to spank me for crying.

That one instance, when I was not even 5 years old, divorced me from my feelings and ability to express them. And in response, I developed idiosyncrasies to compensate for them. One of them was to never look anyone else directly in the eyes. Another was to try to be perfect, or not try at all. I also collected things and put my feelings into them, since my feelings weren't accepted by my family. I also never tried to reach out for love. So I write now as someone who never figured it out, and sits here, single.

I also became an alcoholic. Like Mac Mackenzie. Like my father. And his father. And his father before him...

I've processed a lot of this in the swamp, and thank you for those who have helped me to understand and get past my blocks. What I post here now, I do so while trying to be as fully vulnerable as possible. That is one thing that these books help so much with: that is step one in recovery. Be willing to be who you are, no matter how much it hurts. Always. Because if you can't trust someone else enough to be fully true and present with them, then you don't truly love them - or yourself. Full stop.

I believe that what has happened to this world is that the forces that control us discovered early on that in order to control us, they HAD to find some way to wound us in the heart, to keep us from wanting to access it due to there being so much pain there to heal it; because doing so caused us to become stuck in the lower centers: survival, power, and sex. And once stuck there, we had no access to higher centers of being because one has to be able to be present in the heart to know that those higher centers even exist.

I experienced this with my own family. I could see that my father was wounded in his heart just as his father and HIS father were; they all felt a need to make sure that their male children would be callous and indifferent because they felt that was the ONLY way they could exist and live to make progeny in a "limited" world. To them, life was about being better than the other man; taking advantage of him and his emotional "weakness"; because one HAD to do so in order to "stay in power" and to "survive" and to seed your women with children able to carry on the family line.

Of course, NONE of this way of living has EVER been natural. It is, in fact, UNnatural. But we as a species have been taught that all of life must be lived from the lower three chakras, and love be damned. And that separation from the heart has been carried down for many generations, and has created this world in my honest opinion.

But these books...they illustrate that underneath it all, mankind has known this way of living has always been wrong. Men have developed some pretty strange idiosyncrasies and coping mechanisms to deal with it, and hide their feelings...and it takes a special kind of woman to lead them home. And I think, THAT is what most of these books do: they illustrate the pain that these men feel; the imbalances that they have embraced to cope as a result; and the strong and balance-seeking women who can help them find themselves - and in that also find satisfaction and love within themselves after being shunned by their fathers who had trouble loving them due to these same reasons. Healing the men they are with, also heals their ancestral line, as well as their partners. Which is why I personally took up this challenge, because I saw this with my own forefathers. And I thank Laura for seeing this.

That's my take, anyway. And I plan to do another exercise in the swamp soon, where I will try to harness the emotions that have come up for me to create a better future. I will share when I am done there. Thanks all of you for your shares so far, this is definitely a courageous exercise.

 

[Arwenn]

I’ve been re-reading Unholy Hungers by Barbara E Hort, and I thought the last chapter of her book (titled The Redemption of Love- Giving up Dracula for Sir Gawain) fits really well with the Romance Reading project. So I thought I’d share Hort’s insightful perspective on one of the ways transformation can occur in relationships.

The chapter begins by exploring how we project our ideals of a divine Beloved and demand perfect love from an imperfect mortal. She says that it is “a wry joke of the psyche that our loved ones frequently embody our unacknowledged darkness as well as our unacknowledged light” and that “when we are projecting a portion of strength onto any external person, we are vulnerable” to psychic exploitation. The author then details how one can eradicate this tendency to project by acknowledging all that we seek and fear within ourselves, & thus free ourselves from dangerously deceptive illusions. This is followed by learning how to protect relationships from vampirism.

Of relevance to this thread, is where she next discusses the redemptive power of love in the story of Sir Gawain and Lady Ragnell.

“Both Sir Gawain and Lady Ragnell enter into their marriage fully aware of each other’s vampiric potential. Ragnell has experienced the derision, oppression, and condemnation of Gawain’s patriarchy, and Gawain has been an eyewitness to Ragnell’s hideousness, manipulation, and treachery. Yet both these people elect to rise above their dark experiences of each other and focus instead on their personal commitments to nobility and grace; each thus enables the other to show nobility and grace as well. Gawain treats Ragnell as a lovely deserving bride, and Ragnell shows her deep respect for Gawain by placing her fate in his hands. Neither Gawain nor Ragnell have any concrete reason to trust so fully in each other’s nobility and grace. Perhaps their mutual trust is motivated by a deep instinct for truth, but it could just as easily have been driven by their projections of Belovedness...By trusting in Gawain’s nobility, Ragnell redeems her beauty and sovereignty, and by trusting in Ragnell’s nobility, Gawain receives a partner of loveliness and grace.
[...]
When we project an aspect of our divine Beloved onto another person, our projection may resonate with some aspect of the person’s actual divinity - an aspect that the person couldn’t have seen or manifested in solitude... In this case projection becomes a conscious gift of love, not an unconscious tool of exploitation.”

The author gives other examples and clarifies that

“the power of projected Blovedness cannot by itself kill a psychic vampire... In the examples we have seen of successful vampire killing, the heroes and heroines are well prepared... their preparation extends beyond the vampiric deterrents of day-bright consciousness, honest self-reflectiveness, shadow verification, oceanic feeling...”

Hort’s book has been very insightful on a second read- it’s amazing how much of it I’d forgotten. It seems to me that the above is one of the ways that the protagonists in these novels are able to transform their characters through the redemptive power of love. I’ve noticed this especially in Balogh’s books (it’s quite masterful how she does that). I’m really grateful for this project (& the reading workshops), as these books and the knowledge gained has been immensely helpful in realising some of my programs and thinking errors.

 

[jess]

I was born to a family where my father did not want me. He was only 19; my mother 16. But he had a Catholic background, so he was compelled to marry my mother. From that time forward, he wanted no part of me. And I distinctly remember one night in particular, when I crawled up into his lap to kiss him good night - and he struck me down. I went to bed crying into my beloved pink bunny rabbit doll, and he came in and took it away from me, threatening to spank me for crying.

That one instance, when I was not even 5 years old, divorced me from my feelings and ability to express them. And in response, I developed idiosyncrasies to compensate for them. One of them was to never look anyone else directly in the eyes. Another was to try to be perfect, or not try at all. I also collected things and put my feelings into them, since my feelings weren't accepted by my family. I also never tried to reach out for love. So I write now as someone who never figured it out, and sits here, single.

I also became an alcoholic. Like Mac Mackenzie. Like my father. And his father. And his father before him...

I've processed a lot of this in the swamp, and thank you for those who have helped me to understand and get past my blocks. What I post here now, I do so while trying to be as fully vulnerable as possible. That is one thing that these books help so much with: that is step one in recovery. Be willing to be who you are, no matter how much it hurts. Always. Because if you can't trust someone else enough to be fully true and present with them, then you don't truly love them - or yourself. Full stop.

I connected Ketone Cop deeply your words... how the parents and parents of the parents and on and on, on.....how cruel and irresponsible actions against expression of feelings- emotions, against a piece of themselves: the kids. Really sad.....
I remember my mother used to slapping me when I used to honestly say what I felt towards her way of acting. That made me an aggressive and impulsive person during my childhood, it left an impression that I was a "bad" person because I had an opinion that was not always pleasant to her ears. Shortly after during adolescence I stopped my aggressiveness and I went to the other extreme for to fit in socially and open myself to accept everything to crossing my path, to leave me totally vulnerable to being manipulated and trampled on because I thought I had been a "bad" person. Now I understand the importance of balance, that precious balance that does the right thing to live in harmony.

I just finished my second book: "Lady Isabella's Scandalous Marriage" too. I found a bit funny to find a lot of connection with the female and male character, I connected to Isabella facing the pain of her abortion and her constant differences with Mac, and I fully understood "Mac" in his role as "artist (painter)".
The character of Isabella was really moving and profound for me personally, it made me think that sometimes when we act impulsively sometimes we lose the process or understanding what we are facing in our decisions, but then we pay it in another time.

I liked the part "Mac" showed interest in discovering himself and having to almost literally die or kill himself ("old self") to re-find the meaning of his life, his wife, after that, that's when "love and creativity"returns to his life after his journey of self-discovery.
In a bit of my experience into the "world of the arts" it is often misunderstood that you only have to give all your energy and focus towards the arts, leaving aside the commitment of your partner or other personal areas. Some creators tend to think about the "muses" of inspiration, believing that mastery or success comes only from isolating yourself and focusing your whole being towards one thing: art. But, I think this can take you away from reality and even make you a delusional person, it is incredible today there are many "artists" who still think that this is the way in the arts. Many years ago I used to interact with musicians: jazz or related to music, incredible, but true, many consider that having a stable partner or family -children- only cuts off their energy to develop "their art".

In the end, deep down after thinking many times what was there in history for me, what I could find, I started to think a lot about happiness, that something that makes us feel satisfied and integral with everything that surrounds us, that something that It makes everything flow and expand in growth and abundance, I am very pleased to think that with faith and going towards the right path, perhaps one day we could reach that, that more complete happiness. I do not deny that to think about it you would have to have that negative and painful side, but I think that beyond feeling sad about our bad times or our hard head to learn, it would be rather the precious impulses that make us go towards balance? ....

thanks, really enriching this reading exercise

 

[Voyageur]

What is interesting is, a while ago my wife mentioned to me that reading those novels had a positive effect on me, or rather on my relationship to her. She said that I was much more emotionally expressive and open. I was quite astonished, even though I had deliberately tried to apply what I read in those books. Partly because a lot of the drama in those books arises from misconceptions the protagonists have of each other, for example that they are not lovable as they are or don't express the positive feelings they harbor to each other (and I certainly have been guilty of that in the past). And not feeling lovable myself I would often not tell my partner that I loved them - how could I when I was sure that the other couldn't possibly love me. So now instead of waiting for the other to do the first step (and mind you, my wife is not one to hold back!) I go 'out on a limb' and express my appreciation more openly.

That's great, nicklebleu. Knowing the two-way street between each, and acknowledging that the work never stops in supporting the other; never to be taken for granted, which can and does happen.

I've only read the 1st in the Survival series by Balogh, and wow, the door is being open wide in many directions. Had not expected the directions on the human and social levels in this fist book read - the dynamic between Hugo and Gwendoline was amazing, and not only that, the survivors, as a group - in the comfort and support of each other easing their wounds, reminded me of the work that can take place here.

As a special note, the emphasis on the smile on the face of Hugo at the end was heartwarming.

It was exactly a torture for me to read it, with a difference I didn´t wan´t to throw my tablet - but I cried - it was not just crying, but shaking and sobbing during the last few chapters of the Devils Web (from the duke´s ball till the end of the book). I was so stressed out with so many memories and regrets coming to the surface that I couldn´t control myself.

I hear you, and no, no tablet throwing, just frustration when seeing how two people stagnate in words, and as Laura said, the undercurrents that pinned them both down in different ways was very sad, and hence the emotional level for the two was heightened.

On a personal note, my father has been gone for nearing 30-years; a lot was unsaid and somethings were reconciled. He was the sort of man who could not seem to openly share fully with his children, share what one might expect on an emotional level, and yet he was open to helping to experience life - and he was not cold. I had always known that his father, my grandfather, had died after falling from a ladder fixing something on the house and had had a stroke. Good grief, the guy had survived WWI in trench warfare. He died mid 50's. What I did not know fully or had avoided knowing, was recently discussed with my mum, wherein my grandmother had somehow and for some reason blamed my father for his fathers death. This seems to have been directed by my grandmother that he should have been the one on the ladder. The guilt of it on a young man - my father (and I can't know this happening exactly) may have answer some of my questions.

As an aside, have chosen to read (which I don't particularly like to do) the kindle format for these many books. The first was a paperback, yet for me to order, ship and received was silly given the amount of books. Anyway, for the kindle version reading (at least for Balogh that has been read) there is embedded highlighting (sparse as it is) that shows what others - or one, have highlighted. Paid attention to this as it seemed to me that much of what was highlighted mimicked the work, so excellent markers of Balogh's thoughts that had been captured - much on recognition, choosing and choice.

 

[Konstantin]

I just finished Mary Balogh’s, Tempting Harriet.
It is the last book in that trilogy. Well, what to say. I love the whole trilogy.
Recognizing our own feelings, helping others, taking care of the loved ones. These are the things that I became even more aware of by reading these books. Having friends and family that are on the same path is a good thing.
You can always have the support and a good mirror of yourself. Acceptance and becoming more aware of our own emotions, our demons, and our desires are a part of the work.
By doing this we can recognize the same things in others. It is like mutual growth.
I must choose a new book to start with.
This is a very interesting journey.

 

[Deleted member 4320]

I read the Balogh's books. And I like these books. Well, what to say... In some point, I will get again more things in one and put it in the one post condensed, and will write what the most important there.

But for now, when I was reading today, something came to my mind. I sudennly start to remember that in some point of my time I wrote this post:

The main reason for existence is to learn. We experience our physical existence as the form of the projection of the ethereal world and the "consequence" of ideas coming from this ethereal/spirit world.

Let's say you have a book when you read the story about a man or woman who learns like through mistakes he/she learn how to love, how to be a better person.

When you read this, and when you aware of the story, you are aware of the beginning and the end of this story - such situation reflects your ethereal existence (outside a body) experience - you read a book, you know the whole content, the beginning, and the end, the whole information you get.

The physical existence, in turn, is that that you don't have in mind all of that information that you get while you "read that book when you are at the etheric level (5 Density)".

But, you ARE the CHARACTER of that book. You are disconnected from knowing about that whole story, about beginning and end - you really EXPERIENCE it, as you would be the character from that book, and step by step new events are unfolding and you have the opportunity to learn through the experience.

This is a simple and practical explanation of our experience in this 3 Density, without falling into any "technical" or philosophical discussion.

The story in the romantic fiction is like this book in my post. Who knows that when I wrote it on the November 2019 it will has sense now.

Romantic Books even if they are not your stories now, they can be stories of some of "etheral characters" that could be you in the past or are in the "future", however even if not concern you directly, you can learn something from it, as learn from life of some other.