Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or "I, Psychopath"?

[Renaissance]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

I suggest you stick to the topic, and not try to bait and/or threaten me. It won't work.

Bait you? Threaten you? When? Where? Please furnish proof that Anart has baited and threatened you. J.D., this forum's aim is to discover the truth via facts. Just because someone claims something is so doesn't make it true.

If J.D. has an hidden agenda, then I can see why Anart's questions would seem threatening - as Lobaczewski says, (to paraphrase) the emergence of a normal world is felt as a threat to the pathological worldview.

 

[NormaRegula]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

If J.D. has an hidden agenda, then I can see why Anart's questions would seem threatening - as Lobaczewski says, (to paraphrase) the emergence of a normal world is felt as a threat to the pathological worldview.

Sure looks like it. J.D.'s rude reaction and paranoid claim that Anart was threatening him was very telling.

Found it also rather telling that J.D. claims "Vankin is obviously very smart" and "Imo, it's not necessary for him to lie re this." That smart line alone smacks of self-importance and self-delusion. Smart? Vankin has been caught repeatedly in lies, cons, and outright thievery, through out his life.

And then there's:

"Several high profile types I know investigated this months ago. They have lots on online experience, are suspicious by nature, have advanced degrees, are Mensa Club members, one is a psychologist."

So persons with advanced degrees (hopefully, not from diploma mills like PWU or a few lines sent to the Library of Congress) Mensa Club members, and psychologists can never be wrong? Curiously, J.D. didn't furnish the names to go along with these occupations.

It gets curiouser and curiouser. Wouldn't be at all surprised if J.D. was more than a Vankin fan making an attempt to salvage the "Dr's" tarnished reputation. J.D.'s "I can claim anything without sound proof and behave anyway I wish" attitude, and obvious identification to Vankin could literally be more personal in nature.

 

[anart]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Wouldn't be at all surprised if J.D. was more than a Vankin fan making an attempt to salvage the "Dr's" tarnished reputation. J.D.'s "I can claim anything without sound proof and behave anyway I wish" attitude, and obvious identification to Vankin could literally be more personal in nature.

Yes, that wouldn't be surprising at all - and the thought crossed my mind. However, he does have a few 'hangers on', so it could be that as well. Either way, pathology is as pathology does and J.D. was yet another prime example.

 

[purplehaze]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

more on Vaknin:
http://narcissism-support.blogspot.com/2009/03/sam-vakin-diagnosed-psychopath.html

 

[Meg]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

This man is evil!

Sam Vaknin is a psychopath (I believe him to be a sadistic psychopath), not just a garden variety narcissist. He has adopted this persona of narcissist because it suits his purposes and allows him to victimise a world full of vulnerable people while aggrandising and amusing himself. He purportedly has an IQ of 185; that's a lot of potential damage.

Hopefully, this will enlighten his "supporters" about what this 'almost human' is capable of and the masks he wears. His 2nd wife couldn't see it.

Secondly, SV's wife of 11 years, Lidja, was interviewed by another researcher who studies victims of psychopaths. She was tested, and then asked to answer the psychopathy checklist for SV. She scored similarly to other victims of psychopaths in that she was highly empathic, highly emotional and generous. Yet, her scores for SV on the psychopathy checklist were very low, which the researcher said was unusual. Asked about her perception of SV afterwards, Lidja asserted that he was not abusive and was an honest man.

I hope the people he harmed get the help they need.

 

[Clotho]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Then again, birds of a feather do tend to flock together.

Yes, they do...wondering about Psychopath and Narcissist Survivors Support Group, is this being supportive of vicitms?



_http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/members-who-pole-idiot-flamers-or-not-idiot-flamers-hmm-t11420.html

Could this be the effects of being such a close friend of a Narcissist or Psychopath? And they left it up after a member commented how offensive is was.

I would be very suspious of the people who run Sam's sites, there are 3, the one mentioned above, one on Aimoo and another on Runboard and I have viewed them, I often wonder how the heck can there be so many members?

[moderator - live link deactivated so as to not support the site]

 

[Clotho]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Hello. In the past I would have gone nuts and said a bunch of crap and fought with you and I would have used a pseudo name to do it with. I am Wind Song and I run free forums and I used to run forums on MSN with Femfree

If, someone shows you who they are, Believe them ~Maya Angelou

I have had gut feelings, that Windsong and others who run SV's sites are using sockpuppets and other pseudo's. People usually reveal who they are soon enough.

This does answer my question about how can there be so many members on those sites. Think about all the time and energy it takes to build a support site and all you are doing is talking to yourself? Mirror, Mirror on the wall, who is the fairset of them all?

 

[Laura]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

It's totally possible for those sites to be created, manned, and mostly populated by "staff". That would give an impression of activity when there really wasn't that much. How many people actually post and come across as legitimate victims?

 

[purplehaze]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

I have had gut feelings, that Windsong and others who run SV's sites are using sockpuppets and other pseudo's. People usually reveal who they are soon enough.

Femfree uses loads of pseudos and proxies and seems to be Sam's main enforcer.

What strikes us as a possibility is that their are members cross-posting to all the forums. And we believe it speaks LOUDLY to the number of victims these pathologicals have out there that are looking for relief.

Sam & his proxies seem to spend all day posting & reposting his 'articles' and other blather to as many writing sites, psychology sites, and so on. You google "narcissism" and he comes up in the bulk of the hits - which lead new, unwashed and hurting victims to think Sam knows something and in their desperation to get a handle on what just happened to them - WHAM! there are they are on these sites - blood supply for Sam's Army.

Steering people away from Sam and other bad sites is a lot of work but must be done. Victims deserve credible help.

 

[Clotho]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

What strikes us as a possibility is that their are members cross-posting to all the forums. And we believe it speaks LOUDLY to the number of victims these pathologicals have out there that are looking for relief.

My experience is that it is a higher possibility that SV and his crew are the ones cross-posting. Do we know how many legimate people are posting? We will never know, as SV and his crew saturate the internet with his stuff yes, it draws others, a lesson to be learned is to pay attention to others words and actions.

Hello. In the past I would have gone nuts and said a bunch of crap and fought with you and I would have used a pseudo name to do it with. I am Wind Song and I run free forums and I used to run forums on MSN with Femfree

AND

'There is nothing to be learned from the answers to these questions because each individual has her own threshold. No, I simply enjoy the momentary ability to inflict traumatic pain (emotional pain - I am not the physical type and will never harm a woman physically). It is as close as I can get to omnipotence. It is the perfect gender revenge.'.......

'As a Jew I would have done the same to Nazis. As a victim of a woman, I celebrate with unrestrained glee my ability to degrade women, to humiliate them, to frustrate them, to make them beg for life itself, for they see their (often imagined) relationship with me as life itself. This is why I abstain from sex. This is why I dazzle them with my intellect and charm and wit and knowledge, with unprecedented intrusive interest in their petty, boring, housewivish lives - and then I let go abruptly. At this stage, they are so brittle, so vulnerable that they crash to a million shreds with the crystalline sound of agony.~Sam Vaknin

Steering people away from Sam and other bad sites is a lot of work but must be done. Victims deserve credible help.

Yes, fighting for the good of all is the compassionate way, yet how far do you take that good fight? The disordered do reveal themselves as we have experienced. IMO, we are all wounded souls, something has happened to all of us and we are all unique, we all have different paths to follow. Could SV's appeal to others be just that?

We must stop identifying with the chronic criminal and stop allowing him to manipulate our misplaced guilt about treating him as he is: qualitatively 'different' from the rest of us." Amen.

http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/51/3/394

There are many reasons why a target/survivor of abuse is drawn to SV's work and his sites, #1 because the internet is saturated with it. # 2 Vaildation and a sense of commuinity and others can be named each individual is different for why they maybe drawn to it. Yet subconsciously, some may identify with him, look at the 2 posters who posted about knowing SV and being friends. Were they really 2 seperate posters? Could be, yet those 2 identified with SV... Why? Subconsciously, there is the possibility that they are drawn to an abuser, because that is what they know, they can identify with it. They are conditioned to defend abusers, because they had to do it before. And there is also the possiblity that those that want to take on the abuser, to help other victims, can also identify.

That is where the fine line is of steering people away, the questions are, was that poster who was to trying to defend SV really defending him or an abuser from their past or current especially if they are in an abusive relationship right now besides being friends with SV or having family members who are abusive and is someone fighting the good fight for others or for themselves? Meaning, they identify with SV's being an abuser, not taking away what he has done to anyone yet is it more transference and projection from old wounds?

IMO, that is where an abuser has the greatest window for opportunity, either by identifying with him and defending him/her or by fighting against him/her. Bad PR is good PR for the disordered, people that will admit they have posted using other pseudos, people that admit that they take joy in feeding off the vulerabilit, that just shows me they will keep doing it.


Does it feed SV and his crew to spread the word about them or will they eventually show themselves? Look at the one poster who came in just itching for a fight. When they show themselves will others see it or will they be blinded by their own wounds, emotions and denial to see it?

Maybe ignoring is the answer? I guess it just depends on the indivudal and how they feel. Is SV really that popular or is it his own saturation? Just like the sites, are there really that many individuals posting on them or is it most him and his staff? Is there really a staff or is it just him? Everything that has a beginning has an end.

Just my thoughts

 

[purplehaze]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

sorry but ignoring is never an option where innocents are involved. They need to know there's an alternative.

we must put the information out there - the truth, backed up with factual information. Present it to the victims and let them use common sense.

this isn't about starting a fight - it is about ending abuse.

 

[anart]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

sorry but ignoring is never an option where innocents are involved. They need to know there's an alternative.

we must put the information out there - the truth, backed up with factual information. Present it to the victims and let them use common sense.

this isn't about starting a fight - it is about ending abuse.

I would agree - the point is to give a lie what it asks for - the truth.

And, acting in favor of one's destiny and for the health and well-being of others is NOT acting against anyone - it's not 'starting a fight' or 'attacking the pathological' - it is standing up for truth and for the rights of others to at least have a chance to be exposed to the truth.

 

[Clotho]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

this isn't about starting a fight - it is about ending abuse.

it's not 'starting a fight' or 'attacking the pathological

Fighting the good fight or fighting for the good is a figure of speech, it is positive figure of speech, taken from the bible verse:

"Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called."
1 Timothy 6:12

 

[anart]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Fighting the good fight or fighting for the good is a figure of speech, it is positive figure of speech, taken from the bible verse:

"Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called."
1 Timothy 6:12

Could you clarify your point? Or is it that you don't think that it's possible, or useful, to stand up for the truth in such situations? Not standing up for the truth serves only one segment of society - the psychopaths/narcissists/pathologicals.

 

[Clotho]

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Could you clarify your point?

I was not trying to make a point. It was a clarification on the term "Fight the good fight".

Or is it that you don't think that it's possible, or useful, to stand up for the truth in such situations? Not standing up for the truth serves only one segment of society - the psychopaths/narcissists/pathologicals.

Depends on the individual and their situation. Ever hear of chinese handcuffs? See picture below:

When I was a kid chinese handcuffs were a neat little toy I used to play with, if you have never used chinese handcuffs, how you use them is one person sticks their finger in one end and you stick you finger in the other end and then you both pull, guess what happens when both pull? You are both locked, stuck, no matter how much pulling you do, you can not get your finger out, pulling is the trigger that locks you.

The reason I have brought up chinese handcuffs is because with the disordered their game is to lock you in. With the disordered, there is what is called "double bind", where you are wrong if you do and wrong if you don't. So if take for instance, you do speak the truth, wonderful, you are standing up and letting others know to be aware, yet how far do you take it? With the disordered, to them you are wrong, you then become their stalker, you are hounding them. Remember in Windsong's post she mentioned getting nasty e-mails, was she stating that people from this forum were bothering her. Now just her saying it does not make it true but the disordered will always try to make it appear that way. So where does that leave you? In a big circle, you say something, they come back at you and accuse you of stuff, it just keeps going and going. And maybe it might lead you to stoop to their level, utilize their own tactics against them.

Is it worth it? That is my question, or do you have another choice?

Yes, you do have another choice. Removing yourself from the situation. The disordered will always be here, they will be here because they choose not to heal themseleves, they choose to pull, they choose to not look within. If everyone in the world looked within, healed their own wounds, then there would be no abuse, that is a perfect world, the perfect world does not exist, so people go on and on pulling each other, double binding each other.

My destiny is still working itself out, but this I do understand, for me, it is about healing me, I have lived a life of being the caregiver to others. I have found that being a caregiver to others comforts my innerchild. Especially that part of my innerchild that feels abandoned, unprotected, I have lived my life trying to protect others, trying to make them feel safe, I have in essence abandoned myself, abandoned my own needs, to protect others, such as the disordered, by feeding them. If I choose to tell the truth and get locked in the cycle, again I am not taking care of me, I am just feeding others and draining me.

My experience with the forums were lessons, now I move on, my choice, before I choose to speak the truth, and I learned that it does not matter with the disordered. Yet who was I trying to convince? Who was I trying to prove something too?

Myself

As Kenny Rogers says, "You have to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. Know when to walk away and know when to run"