Session 18 August 2002

[Ryan]

Q: (T) Does that mean I need to post on the message board occasionally? (L) I don't know do you read the messages? Even if you don't post. (T) For the most part. I'm not there every day. I try to keep up with what you're writing. That in itself is a lot of work. (L) I can't even do that! I forgot it all already.

A: Attention is a bi-directional signal. It works best in an exchange. [..]

Q: (T) Well I have a lot to work with don't I? I have opinions on everything. (L) Don't we all. (T) Which one...(L) Just start throwing them out there. (T) How do I throw them out there without being offensive? I just try very hard to not be offensive to people...'cause I have no reason...

A: Ask questions!

Q: (A) It's very simple, if I have just opinions and my thing is just to express my opinion to other people it's a signal that I don't want to learn anything. I know all, so how to change? Just suspend all opinion and just be curious and ask questions and see if you can learn. Just do--'I am suspending all opinions. Even if have one, I'm not going to express it.' Because sooner or later if you ask questions people will start asking:'Well, tell us what you think.' Right? 'It's suspicious he is just ask question and he is not giving anything from himself' (laughter). (T) That's good. Okay, do you have anything to...

A: Networking works!!!

A: First you must choose your goals. Then you network with others with similar goals to achieve them. What do you want? Graduation or repeating the grade?

Q: (T) Oh well graduation is always the best. (L) Well you know what Gurdjieff said - 'No one can escape alone. You have to have a group and you have to have a plan, and you have to work.' Nobody can do it alone and you have to do it with the help of somebody's who done it before. It's a very important thing he said about that. He said first you have to understand you're in prison and then you have to learn about the prison and you have to learn about how to get out, and you can only learn about that from somebody who's already gotten out. And you can't do it alone because it takes a whole team. (T) To get out? (L) Yeah, that's what he said, and it's so true. Because the minute you start wiggling around in the matrix, it comes down on your head. (T) Well the matrix is programmed to keep us here. And keep us stupid. (L) Yeah.

A: Chaos is part of the conditions or the creation of a new reality.

Q: (T) There's a lot of reality out there to break down...(L) It's got to break down. (T) It's in the process of breaking down. What is the quantum change that's coming? Quantum shift.

A: This depends on the observer.

(L) I was going to ask if I needed to be any more concerned or observant with this other situation we were discussing earlier, or not?

A: Awareness is good and the understanding that even those who may be fooling themselves and others can be helped by the pretense in some ways.

Q: (T) [..] Any advice, thoughts, ideas, directions? Beside "discover."

A: Seek ye first the desire of the heart and all else falls into place.

Q: (T) [..] Was I being STS or STO at the time when I was giving these things up, it sounds like I was being STS. So I was hurting myself, just doing that.

A: Wanting to help others can often be STS if the reason, at deep levels is fear.

Q: (T) Fear of what?

A: Loss.

Q: (T) Hmm, I'll have to ponder on this awhile. (L) Loss of what? (T) That's a good question, loss of what?

A: Respect, love, others opinions, and a big one self image.

Q: I think what they're saying is you gave up things that you wanted to do to do other things that you thought were things that you ought to be doing to help other people, and the reason you did it that way was because you thought that if you didn't sacrifice yourself and your own wants and needs and these things that you wanted to follow and pursue, that other people would have a lesser opinion of you, or they wouldn't love you or they wouldn't like you, or they would think that you were just being selfish and mean, or something like that...(J) Because you would lose your own self image. (L)...and the self image was rescuer, savior, fixer, helper. (T) Well that kind of sums it up doesn't it? (L) Hey, we've all been there. Fear of loss. The big one, loss of your self image.

So many gems in this Session! Thanks @Laura!

Interesting about Chaos being a part of the conditions or the creation of a new reality, and that the Quantum Jump depends on the observer. Jordan Peterson's work seems particularly aligned with this. And we can certainly see that there's no shortage of Chaos around us at the moment.

If groups of people represent energies in cosmic terms, then if those people, with different perspectives, are all observing objective reality, who knows, maybe something profoundly miraculous can happen.

 

[Amor]

So in this case of Terry and the fear of loss is like: There are certain people in someones life. If I personally want to go forward and they are more like stay at the same place. They only talk about "interesting philosophical stuff" and it stops right there in their life, but I am more to do something about it. And if I still choose to sacrifice my time and energy with those people only because I dont want to become lonely, lose love and acceptence where in reality I know I have stuff to work on, is that what is being talked about here? the illusion that one is service to others by sacraficing ones own time and goals where the time could be spent on learning and fulfilling ones goals which may lead to greater good of all?

 

[Nienna]

the illusion that one is service to others by sacraficing ones own time and goals where the time could be spent on learning and fulfilling ones goals which may lead to greater good of all?

It's more like one is doing something for someone else in order to get something out of it. One does it to look good in other people's eyes, or to feel good about oneself, or to get love from someone, one fears what others will say if one does not do so and so, etc. So in other words, one is not really doing something for someone else as much as what they are doing for themselves. They are anticipating getting something in return.

 

[Amor]

It's more like one is doing something for someone else in order to get something out of it. One does it to look good in other people's eyes, or to feel good about oneself, or to get love from someone, one fears what others will say if one does not do so and so, etc. So in other words, one is not really doing something for someone else as much as what they are doing for themselves. They are anticipating getting something in return.

Thank you for clarification