Session 24 October 2009

[ana]

If a logo were to be considered, I have to admit that one based on a crop formation like either of the two mentioned above would seem rather appropriate -- especially if it had some direct symbolic meaning that related to the principles and we were pretty sure it was genuine and not faked.

There is very creative people here, maybe we can create one symbolizing the aim of Paleochristianity (create a true STO community through knowledge.. )?

 

[Oxajil]

If a logo were to be considered, I have to admit that one based on a crop formation like either of the two mentioned above would seem rather appropriate -- especially if it had some direct symbolic meaning that related to the principles and we were pretty sure it was genuine and not faked.

There is very creative people here, maybe we can create one symbolizing the aim of Paleochristianity (create a true STO community through knowledge.. )?

Good idea.
Maybe different people can make a logo that they think symbolizes the aim the best way. And then we could pick one (by voting?) ? We can do that and if there aren't any logos that really seem to be ''the one'', we could look in different directions?

Apropos, I looked up the fact that where I live, in Finland that is, a new religion can be registered if 20 or more people sign up. That shouldn't be too hard to accomplish, I guess. I'll try to dig up some more about the Finnish legislation for us Finns here in short.

Hmm I can't seem to find how it works like here in Holland, I'll look further though. Any Dutchies who do know?

 

[Adaryn]

I'm of course I'm NOT comparing FOCM to Scientology! This news article just brought some interesting aspects to my attention. Could it be that "they" suddenly could "change the rules" - that e.g. FOCM would not be recognised as a religion (I'm not sure how true it is that France hasn't recognised Scientology; is this just more a popular opinion than a legal fact?) How safe are we with this protection; can "they" find us to be dangerous terrorist and "close us down"?

From Wikipedia:
In 1978, three leaders of the French branch and Ron Hubbard were convicted of fraud.
In 1995, the Parliamentary Commission on Cults in France classified Scientology as a cult. In 1999, the Interministerial Mission in the Fight Against Cults classified it as an "absolute cult" and recommended its dissolution.
Scientology agencies in France are registered as Voluntary or Cultural associations, as the status of religion doesn't exist in France.
From that article (in French): "the French state, in conformity with the 1905 Law (which pronounced the separation of the State from the Church) doesn't recognize any religion. In France, neither catholicism, nor judaism nor islam are recognized. France guarantees total freedom of worship, but doesn't take the liberty of defining what is or what is not a religion.

 

[Laura]

Now there was recently THIS NEWS ARTICLE about how Scientologists were convicted in France. To quote the article:

A French court has convicted the Church of Scientology of fraud, but stopped short of banning the group from operating in France. Two branches of the group's operations and several of its leaders in France have been fined. The case came after complaints from two women, one of whom said she was manipulated into paying more than 20,000 euros (£18,100) in the 1990s. A Scientology spokesman told the BBC the verdict was "all bark and no bite". France regards Scientology as a sect, not a religion. Prosecutors had asked for the group's French operations to be dissolved and more heavily fined, but a legal loophole prevented any ban.

Unlike the US, France has always refused to recognise Scientology as a religion, arguing that it is a purely commercial operation designed to make as much money as it can at the expense of often vulnerable victims, the BBC's Emma Jane Kirby reports from Paris.

Religious freedom is in danger in this country (Text under the picture of Eric Roux, French Celebrity Centre spokesman)

Over the past 10 years, France has taken several individual members of the group to court on charges of fraud and misleading publicity, but this is the first time the organisation itself has been charged, she says. Tommy Davis, spokesman for the Church of Scientology International, told BBC News that the court had acted "in total violation of the European Convention on Human Rights and French constitutional guarantees on freedom". The case "fell flat on its face", he said. "The fines will get thrown out on appeal. We've had similar cases before and in other countries. If it has to go to the court of human rights we're confident we will win there."

Speaking by phone from the US, he said it was a "political gesture" against the organisation, but "Scientology will continue to grow in France".

Yes, we've been following this case with some interest.

The big difference between us and them is they just made up a whacky story about the souls from outer space getting dumped in a volcano as their "founding myth." We don't have to make up a founding myth since we have research and a direct line connection back to ancient cultures - in France, as it happens - linking up with the Cathars on the way. We are also not charging for anything - everything is free and always will be. Yes, we sell stuff to raise funds, and we very much appreciate when people buy our books/tapes/videos and/or make donations, but we do not now and never will charge for anything like the scn people do for auditing and the whole nine yards.

So, no comparison.

I'm of course I'm NOT comparing FOCM to Scientology! This news article just brought some interesting aspects to my attention. Could it be that "they" suddenly could "change the rules" - that e.g. FOCM would not be recognised as a religion (I'm not sure how true it is that France hasn't recognised Scientology; is this just more a popular opinion than a legal fact?) How safe are we with this protection; can "they" find us to be dangerous terrorist and "close us down"?

Things are a bit different in France. I don't think we'll have any problems more than any other strictly Christian denomination. Yeah, we are new, but we are, clearly, "Christian." We just have a somewhat different interpretation of what it means to be Christian.

Apropos, I looked up the fact that where I live, in Finland that is, a new religion can be registered if 20 or more people sign up. That shouldn't be too hard to accomplish, I guess. I'll try to dig up some more about the Finnish legislation for us Finns here in short.

Then I guess you'll just have to find some people to do breathing and meditation with and see if they are interested in joining you. Perhaps if there was some material translated into Finnish? Maybe just the Statement of Principles once it is finalized? Or a blog talking about it?

 

[Laura]

If a logo were to be considered, I have to admit that one based on a crop formation like either of the two mentioned above would seem rather appropriate -- especially if it had some direct symbolic meaning that related to the principles and we were pretty sure it was genuine and not faked.

There is very creative people here, maybe we can create one symbolizing the aim of Paleochristianity (create a true STO community through knowledge.. )?

I'll be interested in seeing ya'll design suggestions, but be aware that there are a couple pros already working on it! The more the merrier, I say!

 

[ana]

I'll be interested in seeing ya'll design suggestions, but be aware that there are a couple pros already working on it! The more the merrier, I say!

Ups!! OK

 

[aragorn]

Then I guess you'll just have to find some people to do breathing and meditation with and see if they are interested in joining you. Perhaps if there was some material translated into Finnish? Maybe just the Statement of Principles once it is finalized? Or a blog talking about it?

Yes, it has been my "secret dream" for some time now to translate some of the material into Finnish, the ultimate goal being able and having the time to translate the Wave series! :) Okay, I'm getting way ahead of myself...a blog would probably be a good way to start. Do I need a permission from you "elders" to start this kind of activity...?

BTW, I guess the EE program is also under constant "scrutiny"? I refer to the Statement of Principles where it says:

When human awareness is expanded, either by new data or new abilities of perception, we are obliged to modify previous interpretations of Truth to incorporate the new - with the proviso that this new interpretation, too, may ultimately be modified.

What I'm getting at here is that even though the EE program is fantastic as it is already, there maybe in the future come some new information that will enhance it in some way. This stems from the fact that I'm currently researching and studying this whole "body awareness thing" (e.g. Bioenergetics) and also the old reiki traditions of meditation with my teacher who has a lot of experience. I have already briefly told him about the EE and he liked the concept a lot. I'm hoping that he will some day try it out and maybe give some tips, if any are needed.

Sorry, if I seem like criticizing the EE, I'm not - or at least so I believe ;) It's just that the explorer in me wants to find always better ways to do things. Maybe this tiny feeling or "tingling" I have of "something missing" from the EE-program means that we could come up with some complementary "modules" of a different nature; In addition to the complete EE we would have some other mental/spiritual "exercise", just for the purpose of "cross training" or variation, OSIT.

 

[anart]

Sorry, if I seem like criticizing the EE, I'm not - or at least so I believe ;) It's just that the explorer in me wants to find always better ways to do things.

Or, perhaps, this is a program?

Maybe this tiny feeling or "tingling" I have of "something missing" from the EE-program means that we could come up with some complementary "modules" of a different nature; In addition to the complete EE we would have some other mental/spiritual "exercise", just for the purpose of "cross training" or variation, OSIT.

Or, perhaps this tiny feeling is your predator, tinkering away with something that - if used as given - could help remove it once and for all?

I'm not saying that the EE program might not change at some point in the future, it very well may, but I am saying that since its introduction, you seem to have been itching to change it, add to it or shift it in some way. It's very like those people who wanted so much to change the Prayer of the Soul; to add their own little twist. Can you see the similarity here? If you can see it, what do you think it indicates and can you consider that this 'explorer' aspect you mention is nothing more than a program - pulling your mind, and intention, this way and that?

 

[aragorn]

Or, perhaps this tiny feeling is your predator, tinkering away with something that - if used as given - could remove it once and for all?

I'm not saying that the EE program might not change at some point in the future, it very well may, but I am saying that since its introduction, you seem to have been itching to change it, add to it or shift it in some way. It's very like those people who wanted so much to change the Prayer of the Soul; to add their own little twist. Can you see the similarity here? If you can see it, what do you think it indicates and can you consider that this 'explorer' aspect you mention is nothing more than a program - pulling your mind, and intention, this way and that?

Yes, I believe you're right. I suspect that this could be my "I hate authorities" program running wild, e.g. "Why should someone tell me HOW to do my meditation." I'm sorry if I messed things up in the EE thread, I guess I pretended to my self that I was helping.

Thanks for the "mirroring"!

 

[anart]

Yes, I believe you're right. I suspect that this could be my "I hate authorities" program running wild, e.g. "Why should someone tell me HOW to do my meditation."

Could be one aspect of it, you're the only one who knows for sure.

I'm sorry if I messed things up in the EE thread, I guess I pretended to my self that I was helping.

Thanks for the "mirroring"!

Well, I never said you 'messed things up' - just that you seemed to be itching to add things/shift things a bit. I think your input on some of the possible side effects of bio-energetic breathing was quite helpful!

 

[Breton]

Apropos, I looked up the fact that where I live, in Finland that is, a new religion can be registered if 20 or more people sign up. That shouldn't be too hard to accomplish, I guess. I'll try to dig up some more about the Finnish legislation for us Finns here in short.

This sounds interesting. If I can be of any assistance... let me know. I keep thinking there should be something we can do here in Finland, and perhaps it will be useful to local residents and to the FOCM to establish something under Finnish law?

 

[Breton]

...
I'm sorry if I messed things up in the EE thread, I guess I pretended to my self that I was helping.

Thanks for the "mirroring"!

Well, I never said you 'messed things up' - just that you seemed to be itching to add things/shift things a bit. I think your input on some of the possible side effects of bio-energetic breathing was quite helpful!

I learn a lot from Anart - I hope to one day be able to offer such valuable assistance as this kind of mirroring.
By the way, Aragorn, I found your input in the breathing thread to be very valuable.
I just forgot to say so... as usual.
Thanks for all your posts.Keep on doing the Work!
_Breton_

 

[Bobo08]

Yes, it has been my "secret dream" for some time now to translate some of the material into Finnish, the ultimate goal being able and having the time to translate the Wave series! :) Okay, I'm getting way ahead of myself...a blog would probably be a good way to start. Do I need a permission from you "elders" to start this kind of activity...?

Hi Aragorn,

If you want to do some translation, take a look at this thread: Becoming a SOTT translator: Help needed

 

[mkrnhr]

Edit (out of subject) :
I had the impression while reading the session transcript that something was urgent. Things are speeding up since a long time and we can expect things to evolve in an exponential way. However, compared to the recent sessions, this one seems to be a quantum (no pun intended) jump. I have the sentiment that something changed in our timeline that produced a more-than-exponential change. Is anybody having the same impression? I there something multidimensional calling to act more rapidly than expected a few days ago? Hope my question is clear...

 

[pirataloko]

Well, hi everybody

I have been looking for some information in the internet about the way to register a new religion in the European Union and i think that there isn't any legislation in Bruselas.

So i looked for some information about the legal situation in Spain (my country), and it seems feasible, here i rescue the information from others websites:

from wikipedia:

It took the new 1978 Spanish Constitution to confirm the right of Spaniards to religious freedom and to begin the process of disestablishing Catholicism as the state religion. The drafters of the Constitution tried to deal with the intense controversy surrounding state support of the church, but they were not entirely successful. The initial draft of the Constitution did not even mention the church, which was included almost as an afterthought and only after intense pressure from the church's leadership. Article 16 disestablishes Roman Catholicism as the official religion and provides that religious liberty for non-Catholics is a state-protected legal right, thereby replacing the policy of limited toleration of non-Catholic religious practices. The article further states, however, that "The public authorities shall take the religious beliefs of Spanish society into account and shall maintain the consequent relations of cooperation with the Catholic Church and the other confessions." In addition, Article 27 also aroused controversy by appearing to pledge continuing government subsidies for private, church-affiliated schools. These schools were sharply criticized by Spanish Socialists for having created and perpetuated a class-based, separate, and unequal school system. The Constitution, however, includes no affirmation that the majority of Spaniards are Catholics or that the state should take into account the teachings of Catholicism.[15] The Constitution declares Spain a "non-confessional" state, however it is not a laïque state like France or Mexico.

Government financial aid to the church was a difficult and contentious issue. The church argued that, in return for the subsidy, the state had received the social, health, and educational services of tens of thousands of priests and nuns who fulfilled vital functions that the state itself could not have performed. Nevertheless, the revised Concordat was supposed to replace direct state aid to the church with a scheme that would allow taxpayers to designate a certain portion of their taxes to be diverted directly to the church. Through 1985, taxpayers were allowed to deduct up to 10 percent from their taxable income for donations to the Catholic Church. Partly because of the protests against this arrangement from representatives of Spain's other religious groups, the tax laws were changed in 2007 so that taxpayers could choose between giving 0.52 percent of their income tax to the church and allocating it to the government's welfare and culture budgets. For three years, the government would continue to give the church a gradually reduced subsidy, but after that the church would have to subsist on its own resources. The government would continue, however, its program of subsidizing Catholic schools, which in 1987 cost the Spanish taxpayers about US$300 million, exclusive of the salaries of teachers, which were paid directly by the Ministry of Education and Science.[15]

And i found the requirements to register religious entities, in the Ministry of Justice's website :

http://esede.mjusticia.es/cs/Satellite/es/1200666550200/Tramite_C/1215326300304/Detalle.html


Here the copy quickly translated to english with google translator, think the translation is fine:

Entry in Register of Religious Entities


Who can apply

They can apply for registration of religious entities through their representatives or persons authorized to do so. For this purpose, are considered religious bodies to register:

* The churches, confessions and religious communities.
* Orders, Congregations and Religious Institutes.
* Entities religious associations constituted as such in the ordering of the Churches and Confessions.
* Federations covering the previous ones.
* The Canon Foundation.

Deadline

The deadline for resolving an application for registration is six months. For annotations, is two months. In both cases the administrative silence is positive.

Additional Information

At the written request sent to the Director General of Religious Affairs, will accompany the literal testimony duly authenticated document creating the appropriate notary or foundation or establishment in Spain.

In this point i have to explain that it looks a diferent thing to create a religious entity and register it, to create it i guess that an attorney with a notary and the laws could be the answer to create it. I didn't find any information about how to create it.

In their submissions, raised to a public (first copy), must show required data:

* The name of the entity, so that is appropriate to distinguish it from any other.
* Address.
* His religious purposes.
* The operating system and representative bodies with an expression of their authority and the requirements for a valid designation.
* Optionally, the nominal of the people who have legal representation of the entity.

Additional documentation for registration of Foundations and associations

* In the case of the Foundations, you must submit the documents specified in Article 1 of Royal Decree 589/1984 of 8 February on religious foundations of the Catholic Church.
* For associative bodies, is also required to provide a certificate granted for religious purposes by the Church or confession in which order they were created.

Amendment of registration data

The modifications of the data provided on registration must be notified to the Register, for their entry, in the same way as for registration.

Cancellation

The entries in the register can only be canceled at the request of the legal representatives of the entity or by a final judicial decision.

More

* Catholic Entities: 902 007 214
* Non-Catholic entities: 902 007 214
* Canon Foundation: 902 007 214

I have been reading the Statement of Principles of the Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind this morning, and i think it's very clear and i'm agreed, but i feel a little nervous with the idea.

I have to think a lot about some things in these moments, i'll write soon.

Greetings!!