Session 3 January 2009

Let me add that megadoses of vitamin C save the individual's life (the one under discussion in the session). The context of the answer is that we were talking about a life-threatening illness and recovery phase, not the average person. The individual actually took up to 50 grams of vitamin C per day for a week following the collapse and tolerated it well!

A little judicious research on the net will indicate the range of normal doses of Vitamin C for the healthy person. I think it is somewhere between 1 and 5 grams.
Laura said:
A little judicious research on the net will indicate the range of normal doses of Vitamin C for the healthy person. I think it is somewhere between 1 and 5 grams.

Here's what i found in Jim Humble's book #2:

There is a great deal of evidence to indicate that cholesterol deposits in the arteries veins around the heart are not the cause of heart attacks. The evidence points out that the walls of these vessels, about 10 inches on the heart, are collapsed 70 to 80 times every minute with each beat of the heart for our entire lives. The walls of these vessels are strengthened by vitamin C and with a deficiency in vitamin C they lose their strength. When the vessel walls crack they remain collapsed and this is when the heart attack happens. The cholesterol that medical people say is clogging the veins has really been deposited there to compensate for the deficiency in vitamin C. It is the body’s secondary defense to prevent collapsed walls of the arteries and veins. Take 6 to 10 grams of vitamin C daily. Reduce the amount if you get diarrhea. Dr. Matthias Rath researched this data. Get his book, Why Animals do not have Heart Attacks. Check the Internet. The proof has been established as well as it can be, certainly a hundred times better than the idea that cholesterol drugs will make you less likely to have a heart attack.


Here is one more thing that the FDA really doesn’t want you to know. Heart attacks have nothing to do with cholesterol levels in your blood. The AMA and other medical research oriented groups have not produced a single study that proves that people with high levels of cholesterol have more heart attacks than those with low levels. They have proved, however, that they can sell billions of dollars of cholesterol lowering drugs. Dr. Matthias Rath has shown that the basis of heart attacks is vitamin deficiency, mainly vitamin C. Get his books. Believe me. He has proven it. Vitamins prevent heart attacks, not cholesterol lowering drugs.

Dr. Matthias Rath points out that there are several thousand miles of blood veins in your body. Those don’t clog up and cause problems. If cholesterol in the blood was causing problems, it would cause problems throughout the body. Only the ten inches of veins right at the heart are affected by cholesterol. Now why would that be? It’s because those veins at the heart are smashed flat at every heart pump, like 70 or 80 times a minute, millions of times a year. They fail not because they are clogged, but because the walls of the veins cannot take being flattened so many times, and they crack. Vitamin C is what causes the walls of blood vessels to be strong. Scurvy is a vitamin C deficiency, and heart attack is part of the same problem. The deposit on the walls of those particular veins is only to increase the strength and prevent the veins from being totally flattened and not for the purpose of clogging the veins. When the vein cracks it stays flat instead of opening again and that is what is causing heart attacks. Vitamin C is what prevents heart attacks. Read Dr. Rath’s books, and be sure to buy some vitamin C. The pharmaceutical companies definitely don’t want you to read his books, because you won’t buy their cholesterol drugs.

Cholesterol is the body’s response to a deficiency of vitamin C. The body seeks to strengthen the walls of the blood vessels and prevent them from cracking by depositing the cholesterol.

I should mention that Dr. Rath worked with Dr. Linus Pauling for many years. Dr. Linus Pauling agreed with Dr. Rath’s findings and they worked together to further verify and understand the use of vitamins in the body. Dr. Linus Pauling was the only man in history to receive two unshared Nobel prizes in the medical field. His agreement and help with these findings adds a great deal of credence to them.
Annette1 said:
Some trivia I've picked up along the way: Genghis Khan's warriors wore silk in battles because arrows were less likely to pierce them owing to the close weave of the fabric. (not certain if this is fact or fiction)

Annette1, You were almost right: silk was worn, because if the person was hit by an arrow, the silk would wind itself around the arrow's head and would make removing the arrow less painful.

Mongolian armour, like its Chinese counterpart, has a long history. Mongolian armour drew its influence from Chinese and Middle East styles. Most Mongolian armour was of scale and lamellar variety. Most armour was made of hardened leather and iron, lanced together onto a fabric backing, sometimes silk. Mail armour was also sometimes used, but was rare, probably due to its weight and difficulty to repair. Mongol archers demanded the armour to be light enough so that when riding, it didn't interfere with their mobility[citation needed]. It is also possible that the Mongol armour lacked mail and was generally lighter than it's counterparts to the East and West because the nomadic habits of the Mongols were not conducive to the labor intensive practices and permanent facilities necessary for making mail or large plates. Sometimes arm protection was removed so that a rider could draw their bow. The helmet was made of mostly iron, but leather and other materials were also used.

Genghis Khan was once said to have issued all his horsemen with silk vests, as an arrow hitting silk does not break it but ends up embedded in the flesh wrapped in silk, allowing the arrow to be removed by gently teasing the silk open, as opposed to the usual method of removing barbed arrows, cutting them out or pushing then right through an injured limb and out of the other side. These silk vests functioned much like the padded armour used by European and Byzantine soldiers of the era, such as the gambeson.
Here's an article concerning benefits of Vit C, its an older article:

Discovery Shows New Vitamin C Health Benefits

ScienceDaily (Jan. 12, 2005) — CORVALLIS - Researchers in the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University have made a major discovery about the way vitamin C functions in the human body - a breakthrough that may help explain its possible value in preventing cancer and heart disease.

The study, which explores the role of vitamin C in dealing with the toxins that result from fat metabolism, was just published in a professional journal, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

It contradicts the conclusions of some research that was widely publicized three years ago, which had suggested that this essential nutrient might actually have toxic effects.

The new OSU study confirmed some of the results of that earlier laboratory study, which had found vitamin C to be involved in the formation of compounds potentially damaging to DNA. But that research, scientists say, only provided part of the story about what actually happens in the human body.

The newest findings explain for the first time how vitamin C can react with and neutralize the toxic byproducts of human fat metabolism.

"This is a previously unrecognized function for vitamin C in the human body," said Fred Stevens, an assistant professor in the Linus Pauling Institute. "We knew that vitamin C is an antioxidant that can help neutralize free radicals. But the new discovery indicates it has a complex protective role against toxic compounds formed from oxidized lipids, preventing the genetic damage or inflammation they can cause."

Some earlier studies done in another laboratory had exposed oxidized lipids - which essentially are rancid fats - to vitamin C, and found some reaction products that can cause DNA damage. These test tube studies suggested that vitamin C could actually form "genotoxins" that damage genes and DNA, the types of biological mutations that can precede cancer.

But that study, while valid, does not tell the whole story, the OSU researchers say.

"It's true that vitamin C does react with oxidized lipids to form potential genotoxins," said Balz Frei, professor and director of the Linus Pauling Institute, and co-author on this study. "But the process does not stop there. We found in human studies that the remaining vitamin C in the body continues to react with these toxins to form conjugates - different types of molecules with a covalent bond - that appear to be harmless."

In human tests, the OSU scientists found in blood plasma extraordinarily high levels of these conjugates, which show this protective effect of vitamin C against toxic lipids.

"Prior to this, we never knew what indicators to look for that would demonstrate the protective role of vitamin C against oxidized lipids," Stevens said. "Now that we see them, it becomes very clear how vitamin C can provide a protective role against these oxidized lipids and the toxins derived from them. And this isn't just test tube chemistry, this is the way our bodies work.

"This discovery of a new class of lipid metabolites could be very important in our understanding of this vitamin and the metabolic role it plays," Stevens said. "This appears to be a major pathway by which the body can get rid of the toxic byproducts of fat metabolism, and it clearly could relate to cancer prevention."

Oxidation of lipids has been the focus of considerable research in recent years, the scientists say, not just for the role it may play in cancer but also in other chronic diseases such as heart disease, Alzheimer's disease, and autoimmune disorders.

The toxic products produced by fat oxidation may not only be relevant to genetic damage and cancer, researchers believe, but are also very reactive compounds that damage proteins. For instance, there's a protein in LDL, the "bad" cholesterol in your blood, which if damaged by toxic lipids can increase the chance of atherosclerotic lesions. In continuing research, the OSU team plans to study the role of this newly understood reaction between vitamin C and toxic lipids in atherosclerosis. In clinical studies they plan to examine the blood chemistry of patients who have been diagnosed with coronary artery disease, compared to a healthy control group.

"In the early stages of atherosclerosis, it appears that some of these toxic lipids make white blood cells stick to the arterial wall, and start an inflammatory process that ultimately can lead to heart disease or stroke," Frei said. "When we better understand that process and the role that micronutrients such as vitamin C play in it, there may be strategies we can suggest to prevent this from happening."

The new findings, the OSU scientists say, also point to new biomarkers that can be useful in identifying oxidative stress in the human body. They may provide an indicator of people who may be at special risk of chronic disease.

Source: Oregon State University (2005, January 12). Discovery Shows New Vitamin C Health Benefits. ScienceDaily. Retrieved February 2, 2009, from­ /releases/2005/01/050111162230.htm
This next set is a listing of studies on Vit C from the Life Extension site here:

The links on this page are extensive, and are abstracts of scientific studies. If you go to the link above and click on a study, it will take you to the full summary.

For brevity sake, here are the first five:


1. Atherosclerosis in youth: are hypertension and other coronary heart disease risk factors already at work?

Pediatr Nephrol 1997 Feb;11(1):99-107
Oalmann MC, Strong JP, Tracy RE, Malcom GT
Department of Pathology, Louisiana State University Medical Center, New Orleans 70112, USA.

The purposes of this review were to describe the natural history of
atherosclerosis in youth, discuss the role of adult coronary heart disease (CHD) risk factors in the development of atherosclerosis-particularly in the young- and present the relationship between atherosclerosis and hypertension. Evidence is presented that, by age 15 years, 100% of the youth have aortic atherosclerosis and about one-half have coronary atherosclerosis. Risk factors for adult CHD, including lipoproteins, smoking, glycohemoglobin (a marker for diabetes), obesity, and hypertension, are associated with extent and prevalence of atherosclerosis in young people. Hypertension seems to play its role mainly by converting early atherosclerotic lesions (fatty streaks) to more advanced lesions (raised lesions).

2. Aging is associated with endothelial dysfunction in healthy men years before the age-related decline in women.

Celermajer DS, et al.
J Am Coll Cardiol 1994 Aug;24(2):471-6
Celermajer DS, Sorensen KE, Spiegelhalter DJ, Georgakopoulos D, Robinson J, Deanfield JE
Cardiothoracic Unit, Hospital for Sick Children, London.

OBJECTIVES. This study assessed whether aging is associated with progressive endothelial dysfunction, whether the pattern of any age-related decline in vascular health is different in men and women and whether any gender difference is consistent with known changes in hormonal status. BACKGROUND. Coronary and cerebrovascular disease are much less common in young and middle-aged women compared with men, although the gender difference in death from atherosclerosis is less marked after the menopause. Endothelial dysfunction is an early event in atherogenesis and is important in dynamic plaque stenosis in later life. The effect of aging on endothelial function in men and women, however, is not well known. METHODS. We used high resolution ultrasound to study endothelium-dependent and endothelium-independent vascular responses. Brachial artery physiology was investigated in 238 subjects (103 men, 135 women; mean [ SD] age 38 17 years, range 15 to 72) with no known risk factors for atherosclerosis. The responses to reactive hyperemia (flow-mediated dilation, which is endothelium dependent) and to glyceryl trinitrate (an endothelium-independent dilator) were assessed for all the subjects and then for men and women separately. RESULTS. On multivariate analysis for the whole group, reduced flow-mediated dilation was related to older age (r = -0.34, p < 0.0001). In men, flow-mediated dilation was preserved in subjects aged < or = 40 years but declined thereafter at 0.21%/year. In women, flow-mediated dilation was stable until the early 50s, after which it declined at 0.49%/year (p = 0.002 compared with men). In contrast, there was no significant change in the glyceryl trinitrate response with aging in either gender. CONCLUSIONS. Aging is associated with progressive endothelial dysfunction in normal humans, and this appears to occur earlier in men than in women. In women, however, a steep decline commences at around the time of the menopause. This is consistent with a protective effect of estrogens on the arterial wall.

3. Vitamin C protects human vascular smooth muscle cells against apoptosis induced by moderately oxidized LDL containing high levels of lipid hydroperoxides.

Arterioscler Thromb Vasc Biol 1999 Oct;19(10):2387-94
Siow RC, Richards JP, Pedley KC, Leake DS, Mann GE
Centre for Cardiovascular Biology and Medicine, GKT School of Biomedical
Sciences, King's College, London, UK.

Vascular cell death is a key feature of atherosclerotic lesions and may
contribute to the plaque "necrotic" core, cap rupture, and thrombosis.
Oxidatively modified low-density lipoproteins (LDLs) are implicated in the
pathogenesis of atherosclerosis, and dietary antioxidants are thought to protect
the vasculature against LDL-induced cytotoxicity. Because LDL oxidative
modification may vary within atherosclerotic lesions, we examined the effects of
defined, oxidatively modified LDL species on human arterial smooth muscle cell apoptosis and the cytoprotective effects of vitamin C. Moderately oxidized LDL (0 to 300 microg protein/mL), which has the highest content of lipid
hydroperoxides, induced smooth muscle cell apoptosis within 6 hours, whereas
native LDL and mildly and highly oxidized LDL had no effect. Moderately oxidized LDL increased cellular DNA fragmentation, release of fragmented DNA into the culture medium, and annexin V binding and decreased mitochondrial dehydrogenase activity and expression of the antiapoptotic mediator Bcl-x(L). Treatment of cells with native LDL together with the lipid hydroperoxide 13(S)-hydroperoxyoctadeca-9Z,11E-dienoic acid (HPODE, 200 micromol/L, 6 to 24 hours) also induced apoptotic cell death. Pretreatment of smooth muscle cells with vitamin C (0 to 100 micromol/L, 24 hours) attenuated the cytotoxicity and apoptosis induced by both moderately oxidized LDL and HPODE. Our findings suggest that moderately oxidized LDL, with its high lipid hydroperoxide content, rather than mildly or highly oxidized LDL, causes apoptosis of human smooth muscle cells and that vitamin C supplementation may provide protection against plaque instability in advanced atherosclerosis.

4. On the role of vitamin C and other antioxidants in atherogenesis and vascular

Proc Soc Exp Biol Med 1999 Dec;222(3):196-204
Frei B
Linus Pauling Institute, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331-6512, USA.

Oxidative stress has been implicated as an important etiologic factor in atherosclerosis and vascular dysfunction. Antioxidants may inhibit atherogenesis and improve vascular function by two different mechanisms. First, lipid-soluble antioxidants present in low-density lipoprotein (LDL), including alpha-tocopherol, and water-soluble antioxidants present in the extracellular fluid of the arterial wall, including ascorbic acid (vitamin C), inhibit LDL oxidation through an LDL-specific antioxidant action. Second, antioxidants present in the cells of the vascular wall decrease cellular production and release of reactive oxygen species (ROS), inhibit endothelial activation (i.e., expression of adhesion molecules and monocyte chemoattractants), and improve the biologic activity of endothelium-derived nitric oxide (EDNO) through a cell- or tissue-specific antioxidant action. alpha-Tocopherol and a number of thiol antioxidants have been shown to decrease adhesion molecule expression and monocyte-endothelial interactions. Vitamin C has been demonstrated to potentiate EDNO activity and normalize vascular function in patients with coronary artery disease and associated risk factors, including hypercholesterolemia,
hyperhomocysteinemia, hypertension, diabetes, and smoking.

.5. Induction of antioxidant stress proteins in vascular endothelial and smooth muscle cells: protective action of vitamin C against atherogenic lipoproteins.

Free Radic Res 1999 Oct;31(4):309-18
Siow RC, Sato H, Leake DS, Ishii T, Bannai S, Mann GE
Centre for Cardiovascular Biology and Medicine, GKT School of Biomedical
Sciences, King's College London, UK.

Elevated levels of lipid peroxidation and increased formation of reactive oxygen species within the vascular wall in atherosclerosis can overwhelm cellular antioxidant defence mechanisms. Accumulating evidence implicates oxidatively modified low density lipoproteins (LDL) in vascular dysfunction in atherosclerosis and oxidized LDL have been localized with in atherosclerotic lesions. We here report that human oxidatively modified LDL induce expression of 'antioxidant-like' stress proteins in vascular cells, involving increases in the activity of L-cystine transport, glutathione synthesis, heme oxygenase-1 and the murine stress protein MSP23. Moreover, treatment of human arterial smooth muscle cells with the dietary antioxidant vitamin C markedly attenuates adaptive increases in endogenous antioxidant gene expression and affords protection against smooth muscle cell apoptosis induced by moderately oxidized LDL. As vascular cell death is a key feature of atherosclerotic lesions and may contribute to the plaque 'necrotic' core, cap rupture and thrombosis, our findings suggest that the cytoprotective actions of vitamin C could limit plaque instability in advanced atherosclerosis.
Gimpy said:
This next set is a listing of studies on Vit C from the Life Extension site here:

The links on this page are extensive, and are abstracts of scientific studies. If you go to the link above and click on a study, it will take you to the full summary.

For brevity sake, here are the first five:


The last three abstracts on the first page are really interesting :

8. The key role of histamine in the development of atherosclerosis and coronary heart disease.

Med Hypotheses 1999 Jan;52(1):1-8
Clemetson CA Tulane University School of Medicine, New Orleans, LA, USA.

Vitamin C-deficiency is known to cause a disturbance of cholesterol metabolism. Suboptimal plasma ascorbic acid levels also cause increased blood histamine levels, which are exaggerated by sleep-lack and other forms of stress. Histaminemia causes separation of vascular endothelial cells. It is here suggested that the histaminemia of stress and ascorbate depletion combine to cause damage to the arterial endothelium and predispose to atherosclerosis, the principal cause of myocardial infarction.

9. Vitamin C protects against and reverses specific hypochlorous acid- and chloramine-dependent modifications of low-density lipoprotein.

Biochem J 2000 Mar 1;346 Pt 2:491-9
Carr AC, Tijerina T, Frei B
Linus Pauling Institute, 571 Weniger Hall, Oregon State University, Corvallis,
OR 97331, USA.

Activated phagocytes produce the highly reactive oxidant hypochlorous acid (HOCl) via the myeloperoxidase-catalysed reaction of hydrogen peroxide with chloride ions. HOCl reacts readily with a number of susceptible targets on apolipoprotein B-100 of low-density lipoprotein (LDL), resulting in uncontrolled uptake of HOCl-modified LDL by macrophages. We have investigated the efects of vitamin C (ascorbate), an effective water-soluble antioxidant, on the HOCl- and chloramine-dependent modification of LDL. Co-incubation of vitamin C (25-200 &mgr;M) with LDL resulted in concentration-dependent protection against HOCl (25-200 &mgr;M)-mediated oxidation of tryptophan and lysine residues, formation of chloramines and increases in the relative electrophoretic mobility of LDL. Vitamin C also partially protected against oxidation of cysteine residues by HOCl, and fully protected against oxidation of these residues by the low-molecular-mass chloramines, N(alpha)-acetyl-lysine chloramine and taurine chloramine, and to a lesser extent monochloramine (each at 25-200 &mgr;M). Further, we found that HOCl (25-200 &mgr;M)-dependent formation of chloramines on apolipoprotein B-100 was fully reversed by 200 &mgr;M vitamin C; however, the loss of lysine residues and increase in relative electrophoretic mobility of LDL were only partially reversed, and the loss of tryptophan and cysteine residues was not reversed. Time-course experiments showed that the reversal by vitamin C of HOCl-dependent modifications became less efficient as the LDL was incubated for up to 4 h at 37 degrees C. These data show that vitamin C not only protects against, but also reverses, specific HOCl- and chloramine-dependent modifications of LDL. As HOCl-mediated LDL modifications have been strongly implicated in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis, our data indicate that vitamin C could contribute to the anti-atherogenic defence against HOCl.

10. Vitamin C prevents the acute atherogenic effects of passive smoking.

Free Radic Biol Med 2000 Feb 1;28(3):428-36
Valkonen MM, Kuusi T
Department of Medicine, University of Helsinki, Helsinki, Finland.

During passive smoking the body is attacked by an excess of free radicals inducing oxidative stress. In nonsmoking subjects even a short period of passive smoking breaks down serum antioxidant defense (TRAP) and accelerates lipid peroxidation leading to accumulation of their low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol in cultured human macrophages. We now studied whether these acute proatherogenic effects of secondhand smoke could be prevented by an effective free radical scavenger, vitamin C. Blood samples were collected from nonsmoking subjects (n = 10) as they were consecutively exposed to normal air or cigarette smoke during four separate days. During the last 2 d, a single dose of vitamin C (3 g) was given, which doubled its plasma concentration. Vitamin C did not influence the plasma antioxidant defense or the resistance of LDL to oxidation in normal air, but prevented the smoke-induced decrease in plasma TRAP (p <.001), the decrease in the resistance of LDL to oxidation (p <.05), and the accelerated formation of serum thiobarbituric acid reactive substances (TBARS) (p <.05) otherwise observed 1.5 h after the beginning of passive smoking. Vitamin C protected nonsmoking subjects against the harmful effects of free radicals during exposure to secondhand smoke.
Okay, one more, and I'll give it a rest. :D

This is the page where the research notebooks of Linus Pauling are online to be searched:

As with many scientists, Linus Pauling utilized bound notebooks to keep track of the details of his research as it unfolded. A testament to the remarkable length and diversity of Dr. Pauling's career, the Pauling Papers holdings include forty-six research notebooks spanning the years of 1922 to 1994 and covering any number of the scientific fields in which Dr. Pauling involved himself. In this regard, the notebooks contain many of Pauling's laboratory calculations and experimental data, as well as scientific conclusions, ideas for further research and numerous autobiographical musings.
Laura said:
Let me add that megadoses of vitamin C save the individual's life (the one under discussion in the session). The context of the answer is that we were talking about a life-threatening illness and recovery phase, not the average person. The individual actually took up to 50 grams of vitamin C per day for a week following the collapse and tolerated it well!

A little judicious research on the net will indicate the range of normal doses of Vitamin C for the healthy person. I think it is somewhere between 1 and 5 grams.

Thanks Laura. Experiments in order for me now. Anyone knows or can suggest what particular brand I should buy or look for?
[quote author=Vulcan59]
Anyone knows or can suggest what particular brand I should buy or look for?

Yes, good ol' Mother nature. ;)

I usually check for nutritional info (and other health issues). They just gained my trust after I've seen an interview with Dr. Group (the founder) and read one of his books.

I searched Vitamin C on their site and found this:


Vitamin C shortages

Reasons to reach for vitamin C-rich foods appear to be growing, but as many as one in three of us may not be getting enough vitamin C, according to Johnston. Her recent investigation found that 12 percent of adult women in the U.S. are deficient in vitamin C. They had blood levels so low that they actually had early signs of scurvy, a vitamin C deficiency disease associated with 18th Century sailors who died after long journeys without fruits and vegetables.

With regard to the synthetic vs natural debate, they had this to say:


Your daily dose

Despite the newly revealed vitamin C benefits, it's not a green light to load up on vitamin C supplements. The best way to get the vitamin C you need is by eating more fruits and vegetables, advised antioxidant expert John Erdman, professor of food science and human nutrition at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

The clinical trials using vitamin C supplements to explore the nutrient's role in reducing the risk of cancer and heart disease have been "very disappointing," Erdman said. The only clear pattern of risk reduction is when researchers have looked at fruit and vegetable consumption, he said.

According to Erdman, who served on the panel that established the recommended daily intakes for vitamin C and other antioxidants, the answer is simple: Load up daily on "whole" foods like fruits and vegetables. They contain a complex mixture of vitamins, minerals, fiber, phytochemicals and other compounds that can't be captured in a pill.

And this:


These days you just cannot trust any pill manufacturer.
Just a side-note: Seems that for the original topic, it is turning
into a mix of different topics. I applaud all of the useful information
here, but then when one needs to go back per Category/topic heading,
would one remember to find "health-benefits" in `The Cassiopean
Experiment"/"Session 3, January 2009" category? ;)

Perhaps the VC topics should be placed under "Vitamin C" category,
and perhaps the other topics as well?

Thanks for the information on Vitamin C - very useful!

Session Date: January 3rd 2009

Q: (L) That's what the caterpillars eat to make silk. (J) So _____ should take Mulberry extract? (laughter) (_____) And Then I can start making silk? (L) If you start doing weird things, I'm outta here! (laughter) (_____) What can I do to mentally block?

A: Right now you need help as you are ... weak. But the general principle can be understood from the term "righteous anger." If you think about the expression that the fate of the universe may depend on you it should make you angry.

Q: (L) That wasn't very clear, was it? (A****) That expression?

A: No. The fate of the universe can be altered negatively and many will suffer if you are out of the picture. That is what "they" want.

Q: (D) So your first priority has to be to stay healthy and make sure you take care of yourself. (S) We need to get you a superhero outfit. (_____) Made of silk! (laughter)

She needs to rustle up some of that "righteous anger" too! Its just suprising that nobody seems to have mentioned it. What's so "wrong" with the idea? Perhaps it is more important to know how to generate this internal energy than people would like to think?

Regarding silk: Excellent idea! Maybe some silk curtains too? Its kind of funny that to protect ourselves we all would be best served by wearing silk Hijabs. :) An interesting cultural norm followed by many Moslem women. Probably quite good for the cold weather too. Maybe the 'traditional way' of covering our heads (historically/religiously) and also through modern religious practices has another reason apart from any 'false' modesty....

Session Date: January 3rd 2009
A: 2009 is going to be a "smashing" year.

Q: (L) Swell. (J) Comets.

A: Maybe one...?

I wonder if Australia will get one?

I'm going to look into getting one of those Hijabs. :D It'll have to be silk, though.
Laura said:
This session is going to have some blanks in it since we were discussing a health issue due to the fact that a member of our household was ill over Christmas and nearly died. Christmas was a rather grim affair for us this year. I'll edit it as tight as I can so that anything of general interest can be read.

Session Date: January 3rd 2009

Laura, Ark, family, Chateau Crew, a guest
Q: .... (Ark) You were asking about this WiFi, and it's bad, but I want to ask about this USB stick with the little antenna on our Asus? It radiates microwaves like cellphones. Is it strong?

A: Also bad. You would be surprised what tiny things can do. In all cases, however, there are remedies and safety measures.

Q: (S) Well, this kind of my question. Because we have cell phones that are so evil, right? The problem is that even if you never use a cell phone, there are towers EVERYWHERE. If a cell phone is on and it's close to you, that's worse, but... (L) You can't escape it all. (S) So we can obviously turn off the evil stuff, but... (L) I think there's also the stuff out there for cancelling that is dietary {like minerals}, or something you can do.

A: Silk is always good.

Q: (Ark) But coming back to this USB stick and little antenna which is probably very weak, what would be the distance from this that you would consider to be safe?

A: 2 meters.

Hi All. I have also got rid of my Wifi in the house, actually about two or so years ago, but I can't do anything about all the EM pollution around my living area, besides a few things that I think might help. So for what it's worth here they are:

First I have a salt lamp in my room. Supposed to create negative ions to counter the overdose of positive ions from electrical appliances (example: this glaring LCD monitor and the rest of the comp!)

Some info about this here:


Moreover, I've read that the rock Crystal Amethyst can be helpful in radiation absorption. I don't remember where I read this, but while trying to find some current and scientifically corroborating data that would at least make some sense to me in terms of understanding - even if just intuitively for the most part - on this notion, I stumbled upon this interesting gadget in my search called "The Zeusite Shield". Here is some info for general interest on this Zeusite shield thingy:

"What exactly is Zeusite™?

Zeusite™ is a unique proprietary material developed by Life Technology™ as a result of our research into novel materials which have the inherent capability to mitigate the effects of electromagnetic radiation EMR.

Zeusite™ consists of a high energy compressed matrix of precious and semi precious stones, precious and non precious conductive metals, and monatomic covalent mineral elements which are specifically chosen not only for their protective effetcs but also their subtle energy enhancement effects.

Zeusite™ is manufactured by a USA company that is responsible for manufacturing specialist ceramic componentry, specialist materials which are now being used by NASA in superconductors, experimental free energy technologies, aeronautical heat shielding equipment etc."

Anyways, besides finding an article called "Amethyst color in quartz, the result of radiation protection involving iron", which I don't understand, I found the following link that gives a more general and laymen explanation:

From _
"How Can Amethyst Help You?

Amethyst has a myriad of natural aids for the body. Like Tourmaline crystals, Amethyst gemstones produce small, detectable magnetic fields. Since your body also has a magnetic field, the Amethyst and your body can exchange energy with one another¹.

Amethyst is Quartz, which means that it is capable of increasing the size of your biomagnetic field by 100% within seconds of standing in its presence. This can replenish lost energy eroded by depressive episodes or physical harm. It can also increase your energy levels.

Now where do the benefits of Amethyst originate? Like other crystals, it has two important abilities that are responsible for its benefits: far infrared radiation and negative ion emission."

Lastly, I remember reading an article mentioned by Kenlee on Casschat several years ago that explained that EM population and whatnot blocked our brains from producing melatonin, which then resulted in other health issues, for example, cancer, being susceptible to EM mind control, etc, etc. So another one of the possible "remedies and safety measures" that the C's might be talking about could be perhaps about taking Melatonin everyday or so as one of the counter measures. I myself have been taking melatonin on a regular (almost daily but not quite) basis for over 8 years now.

Anyways, just some thoughts that might be of some help.

Edit: In review of the info from this site, this excerpt from the above rung my alarm bells as to what the monatomic minerals are exactly in this product:

"Zeusite™ consists of a high energy compressed matrix of precious and semi precious stones, precious and non precious conductive metals, and monatomic covalent mineral elements which are specifically chosen not only for their protective effetcs but also their subtle energy enhancement effects."

I hope some of these mineral elements are not monatomic/monoatomic gold!...THAT would be just "nuts" thanks to remembering the foresight given by the C's on the manipulative use of this mineral element by STS forces "above" and "below"!

Edit 2: After further review of some other wishful lifetechnology products, like for example one called "The Psychotronic Money Magnet", and their discussion forum, I would think that their Zeusite shield is probably worthless, or even worse in possibility, harmful to the mind. There is hardly even an explanation of how it works and what it looks like. I am sorry All for being hasty in my mentioning of this Zeusite thingy that is probably just a waste of space.
Vulcan59 said:
Laura said:
Let me add that megadoses of vitamin C save the individual's life (the one under discussion in the session). The context of the answer is that we were talking about a life-threatening illness and recovery phase, not the average person. The individual actually took up to 50 grams of vitamin C per day for a week following the collapse and tolerated it well!

A little judicious research on the net will indicate the range of normal doses of Vitamin C for the healthy person. I think it is somewhere between 1 and 5 grams.

Thanks Laura. Experiments in order for me now. Anyone knows or can suggest what particular brand I should buy or look for?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I used pure ascorbic acid powder/crystals.

I got some at a health food store. After reading Laura's detox thread where she used vitamin C in her blueberry shakes, I went out and bought some powder.

1 teaspoon = 5,000mg (5 grams).

I had also read many, many, many :) years ago that your body only used what it needs at that time and then eliminate it so we should take smaller doses several times a day.

I was taking the 5 grams every few a days not really knowing just how much I should be taking.

However, my prescription insurance company (I know, prescription meds are deadly, but this is something I cannot avoid at this time) decided not to continue covering one of my meds and I needed to choose another. I did and this is the first time I had an allergic reaction to one of these.

My throat started constricting and every nerve in my body felt like it was on fire.

After a couple days and nights of this continual pain I decided to start taking 5 gram doses every day. I have no idea why I did this, but I am glad I did. The pain started receding by about 1/3 each day. And after a week it was pretty much gone.

I think now, after reading what has been previously written I could have taken several doses of the vitamin C all in one day until my bowels said ENOUGH, and I would have gotten rid of the toxins in one or two days.

I'm thinking of trying either 2.5 grams or 5 grams several times a day to see how much my body needs.

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