Session 30 May 2009

thorbiorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
In this transcript, there is the section about two old dogs on medication that were put down, but before the excerpt first are some thoughts about pets:

A pet can serve a function like guarding the house or the grainery on a farm, guiding a blind person, finding lost objects or people, tracking game or even pulling a sledge if one is an Innuit hunter or lives in northern Siberia. It can also have a social function of being a comon meeting point for a family or group of people; it can be a way to learn something about ourselves. To train a horse or a dog, one must have some idea of using ones authority. I even came across an expert teacher that recommended prospective teachers to get a dog, as it would help them learn and deal with the behaviour of their students in class. There was also a book written for women comparing the qualities of five breeds of dogs to those of men as partners, and on that basis advising them how to identify types of men according to their taste and deal with them the way they wanted - very clever done with drawings and all, but somewhat soulless. A dog can be a consolation for a lonely person or a lonely child coming home from school before the parents and not having three or four siblings of similar age to play with, it can be an excuse to get out and exercise, or a protection when walking,, as a person is not really walking alone when walking "alone" with a dog. Pets can also help to develop some social skills and a sense of responsibility. Girls (it is mostly girls it seems) who have had a horse are often more responsible than others, I have noticed, or is that just a coincidence in my experience? A pet can also be a bird; someone I met, felt that her 10 canaries can also protect against negative psychic influences. Maybe, but I also recall that from the sessions, that 2D can get psychic attachments, though of course we as humans carry them around too, it is said, so it probably depends on the case. At least a canary will not be able to attack you like a a couple of pitbulls or similar dogs. In some cases a pet, or too many of them can perhaps also be a way to avoid dealing with the world or make one tired, I recall a story about a woman who lived alone in a house surrounded by 11 cats and wondered why she felt so drained from energy. That was an extreme case, but here is the excerpt from the present transcript that I had in mind, which made me think, that if I should get a pet, I would need a really good reason:: Session 30 May 2009
Q: (L) {First question} L*** A*** just had to have her two old sick doggies put down yesterday partly so she could start her new life, but also because there is simply no other choice considering the situation. {Note: The individual is moving to a new city where she has an offer to live and work, and the apartment does not accept dogs. Both of them were quite old and on various meds so not good candidates for adoption.} She's very upset and missing them. Is there anything I can say or anything you can say to give her any kind of pointer as to whether or not this was the right thing to do?

A: Right 5D for pets

Q: (L) Okay. Is there any particular goal for her to focus on at the present time?

A: Getting well will be facilitated by focusing on others as the reason to get better. Giving her life to dogs didn't give much to the world nor did it bring much return except subjective illusion. As Gurdjieff said, you get back what you give to life.

Q: (L) Well, for a long time she didn't have anything except the dogs, and now the dogs are gone. I think she's feeling pretty bereft. And you're saying the doggies went to doggie 5D so to speak...

A: One day she will have a dog that will return the favors.

Q: (L) She made the remark that since her dogs were old and sick and on medication, and she was sick and on medication, that maybe she wasn't worth keeping alive either.

A: Apples and oranges. Dogs are subjective and personal and a human can be objective in terms of what can be given to others.

Q: (L) So you're saying that keeping a dog alive {by extraordinary means} is just keeping alive something that's subjective and personal to you, while a human can be kept alive and give a great deal that's objectively beneficial to other people {depending on the individual, of course}. Is that it?

A: Yes
 

Don Genaro

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
I don't know if this post belongs here or to its own post as a Hit for the C's (it would depend on what you make of the overall argument) but I recently read this book by Peter Novak called The Lost Secret of Death: Our Divided Souls and the Afterlife which reminded me of what the C's said about Jesus and soul division.

From the book description:
Novak investigates a belief called the Binary Soul Doctrine (BSD) which states simply that humans possess two souls which split at death, the conscious going on to reincarnate again and again, while the unconscious ends up in a type of limbo judging itself for all eternity.
He goes on to explain that long ago the BSD was the primary belief of a single world religion, which since has been broken into more and more fragments. However, he claims that twentieth-century findings, including the work of Freud and Jung, as well as findings of modern neuroscience and Near-Death research, has marked a resurgence of belief in the veracity of the BSD.

Novak argues--just as those long ago did--that it is essential for humans to integrate these two souls together before death to avoid the nightmare of being split in two at death. He even offers a few steps to help readers start the process of integration.
It's a while since I read the book but I do remember an interesting hypothesis he made (or I read it as such) at the beginning, that the confusion of tongues referred to with regards to the Tower of Babel, might have been a confusion of religions, rather than tongues. This to me would fit in with the idea of an ancient religion which united humanity rather than the many we have now that divide us in the Golden Age.

Anyway, the part of the transcripts that sprung to mind as I was reading the book was the following:



Q: (L) Was Jesus crucified?
A: No.
Q: (L) Was somebody crucified on a cross and represented to be Jesus?
A: No.
Q: There was no crucifixion and no resurrection after three day? Is that correct?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Okay, what is the truth on that matter?
A: He spent 96 hours in a comatose state in a cave near Jerusalem. When he awoke, he prophesied to his disciples and then exited the cave. 27,000 people had assembled because of mother ship appearance and he was taken up in a beam of light.
Q: (L) When did he go into this sleep state? Did he just go in one day and go to bed and go to sleep and then a ship came and picked him up?
A: Close.
Q: (L) So he appeared to his followers to have died?
A: They thought this.
Q: (L) Did he get up and say anything to anybody before he left on the ship?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Did he come back to life... so to speak...
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And then he told them things he had seen in his extended meditative sleep, is that what happened?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Okay, what happened?
A: Told prophecies then proclaimed eventual return.
Q: (L) Was this information he got during this period of 'extended sleep?'
A: Yes.
Q: (L) How long was he asleep, or in this state of semi-death?
A: 96 hours.
Q: (L) And then, a ship arrived and took him away, is that correct?
A: Yes. Upon pillar of light.
Q: (L) Is there any special power or advantage in praying in the name of Jesus?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Well, if he didn't die and release his spirit into the earth plane, how is this power conferred?
A: Prayers go to him.
Q: (L) And what does he do when he hears the prayers?
A: Determines their necessity against background of individual soul development.
Q: (L) You say that when a person prays to Jesus that he makes some sort of a decision, is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Well, how can he do that when millions of people are praying to him simultaneously?
A: Soul division.

Q: (L) What do you mean by soul division?
A: Self explanatory.
Q: (L) Do you mean soul division as in cellular meiosis where a cell splits and replicates itself?
A: No.
Q: (L) Does Jesus' soul divide?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) How many times does it divide?
A: Endlessly as a projection of consciousness.

Q: (L) And what happens to this piece of soul that is divided or projected?
A: Is not a piece of a soul.
Q: (L) What is it?
A: It is a replication.
Q: (L) Is each replication exactly identical to the original?
A: Yes. And no.
Q: (L) In what way is the replicated soul different from the original?
A: Not able to give individual attention.
Q: (L) Are any of us able to replicate in this manner if we so desire?
A: Could if in same circumstance. The way the process works is thus: When Jesus left the earth plane, he went into another dimension or density of reality, whereupon all "rules" regarding the awareness of time and space are entirely different from the way they are perceived in your reality. A "Time warp coccoon, if you will. At this point in space time his soul which was/is still in the physical realm, was placed in a state of something akin to suspended animation and a sort of advanced form of unconsciousness. From that point to the present his soul has been replicated from a state of this unconsciousness in order that all who call upon him or need to be with him or need to speak to him can do so on an individual basis. His soul can be replicated ad infinitum--as many times as needed. The replication process produces a state of hyper- consciousness in each and every version of the soul consciousness.
Q: (L) So, you are saying that Jesus is in a state of suspension, voluntarily, in another plane of existence, having chosen to give up his life on this plane in order to continuously generate replications of his soul pattern for other people to call upon for assistance? A sort of "template generator?"
A: Yes. Precisely.
Q: (L) If one calls upon him more than once, does one get a double dose?
A: Define.
Q: (L) If one repeatedly calls upon Jesus does one get repeated replications or additional strength, power or whatever?
A: No. Once one has truly made the connection, that's all that's needed.
Q: (L) This is an interesting concept. Has any other soul volunteered to perform this work?
A: Yes. 12 at the present "time."
Q: (L) Can you name any of the others?
A: Buddha. Moses. Shintanhilmoon. Nagaillikiga. Others; Varying degrees; Jesus is the strongest currently.
The chapter relevant to Jesus is chapter 15 and here's an excerpt. It's a bit out of context if you haven't read the rest of the book but interesting in relation to the whole "division" matter. Also, I don't remember if the author is aware that an historical Jesus as has been received by the majority of humans didn't actually exist but I don't think it affects his arguments as he is referring to a more esoteric version in any case.



(Excerpt from chapter 15)

Forging a New Path to Immortality: Christ's Mission to Save the Human Race

For this reason faith came, it did away with the division.
—The Gospel of Truth 34:29
As good as it was, unfortunately the old path was not enough to solve humanity's problem. While it was effective on the level of the individual, the old path was a miserable failure on the level of the collective. It worked wonderfully when people tried it, but it was a path few ever started down, and fewer still completed. And even though generation after generation also produced healers who valiantly struggled to beat back humanity's ever-increasing division with various types of soul retrieval or soul-rescue techniques (whether shamanic, OBE, psychological, or ghostly), there have ultimately been too few of these spiritual warriors to make any meaningful impact on the pathology affecting our species. OBE pioneer Robert Monroe recognized this dilemma, as also does ghost rescuer Robert H. Coddington, who admitted: “We consider rescue of unaware souls a beneficent objective unto itself, even though aiding them, one individual at a time, may be like draining a lake one drop at a time.”

Alas, we may win a few minor battles now and then, but the real war seems all but completely lost. For every individual these soul retrieval specialists help, millions more slip by untouched, lost, and trapped in a merciless downward spiral of unconscious self-destruction. So, instead of getting closer to conquering the pathology that has gripped our species, humanity has kept inching inexorably closer to seeing it finally conquer us. Day after day, lifetime after lifetime, we slice off more and more fragments of our-selves, endlessly indulging in insane acts of self-betrayal that violate our integrity and endanger our health and safety, ignorantly drop-kicking shards of our being into the garbage dump we call the unconscious.

Everything has a price, so we probably shouldn't be surprised that we now find ourselves standing together at the ultimate precipice, wondering if our divisions will now finally be the end of us. There seems to be every reason to assume they might. When cells don't integrate with the rest of the system in a biological organism, it is called cancer. Left to their own devices, such pathologies inevitably destroy the whole organism. As Luke (11:17) warns, “Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.”

At one time, the old path was believed to hold great promise. All the world once embraced it, believing it to be the answer to humanity's problems. People everywhere built huge monuments to it, but in the end it failed us. Despite the entire old path, despite all the binary soul religions, shamans, soul retrieval specialists, psychologists, and ghost-hunters, humanity is still imprisoned inside this pathology. Yes, from time to time a scattered few have been able to escape via the old path; but the vast majority of the Earth's tired, insecure, misinformed, and perpetually distracted population have never even tried to climb out of the trap on their own.

And that could very easily have been the end of the story.

Humanity needed help. Like an infant that had wandered into dangers it didn't understand and had no chance of coping with, humanity needed to be rescued. We had attacked the problem the best way we knew how, and had come up embarrassingly short. Despite a unified worldwide commitment to the old path, we failed in the end. Humanity came away from that sociological experiment as pathologically divided as ever, leaving nothing left to be done but humbly admit our inadequacy and hope for a miracle. We needed a savior.

The Ultimate Soul Retrieval
In The Division of Consciousness, I suggested that Jesus Christ not only mastered the old path (Ephesians 2:14), but figured out how to do something new, taking the old path one step further than anyone had ever done before. His perfect integrity made it possible for Him to delay the activation of His “Fire from Within” transformation until after His physical death. Thus, when He finally underwent this transformation, He did it out of the body, which released awesome, never-before-seen forces that catapulted His soul throughout space and time like the light of an exploding supernova, filling every nook and cranny of the universe with His presence. The Bible reports something similar: “He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe” (Ephesians 4:10)...



...Jesus is credited by Ephesians 2:14 with having “made the two one.” the same goal emphasized again and again in the Gospel of Thomas and other gnostic works, a goal that would have been extremely relevant and meaningful to the BSD-saturated cultures of the Mediterranean. For centuries afterwards, Christian art commonly displayed Christ making an obviously symbolic gesture—holding up two fingers held close together—as seen in this 6th century icon. Christian scholarship has long been divided on the original meaning of this gesture; some have maintained that it refers to Christ's double nature as God and man, while others have taught alternate explanations. But if this gesture dates from Christ Himself, perhaps it was not intended as a declaration of Christ's nature, but as a command to the viewer: “To those who have eyes to see, here is the whole secret: make the two one!”

One consequence of such an unprecedented maneuver was that Christ's unconscious soul became permanently conjoined to all other souls in the universe. He thus came to intimately and directly share in the psychological existence, experience, thoughts, feelings, and identity of every man, woman, and child throughout history, something that presumably only God Himself had previously done, something that would indeed earn Jesus the title “Son of God.” “On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you” (John 14:20).

Such a forced universal mind-meld would have been just what the doctor ordered, providing a perfect solution for the problem plaguing humanity. Discovering our minds inside His own, Jesus would have found Himself in an unprecedented position of power, in the perfect position to single-handedly attack the whole pathology.

Our pain had become His pain. What we had collectively rejected, denied, ignored, and refused to experience consciously, He could embrace. He could now directly confront, and therefore finally release, all humanity's repressed pain and buried memories, everything we had stored up since the beginning of time (or at least since the beginning of the Division). “I remembered your tears and your mourning and your anguish; they are far behind us” (The Secret Book of James 10:9-10).

Jesus could finally release humanity from its ancient fear of this inner pain, a fear that had trapped and enslaved the whole species for millennia. He could finally integrate all the repressed pain and memories, finally fulfilling the evolutionary purpose to become integrated, integrating all the pain and memories by incorporating them all into His own conscious awareness. What we cowardly refused to integrate into ourselves, He bravely chose to integrate into Himself.

All this repressed material was essentially a debt we owed ourselves, a psychological debt that had grown so large it was threatening to destroy the whole human race. He paid this debt for us; or, as His followers put it 2000 years ago, He “paid for our sins.” With trepidation, and with faith, but most of all with love for His fellow human beings, He used the Fire from Within to “take our sins upon Himself,” just as the Christian Church has maintained for millennia.

What few realize, however, is that even if He did pay our debts for us, that would still not actually release us from our indebtedness. There's no such thing as a free lunch, even for Christians. When one bank takes over another, assuming all its debts, the accounts of the first bank's debtors are not wiped clean, but transferred to the second bank. In the same way, when Jesus paid our debts for us, we did not simply become debt-free, but now, instead of merely owing ourselves, we now owed Him.
He now had leverage over us.

We never imagined that such a thing was even possible. We didn't realize that we had this vulnerability, because we had hidden these debts from our own view. To be unconscious of a debt is to be unconscious of a weakness and a vulnerability. But He knew they were there, and realized that if He could pay off these debts for us, He would be, in effect, taking over the whole human race.
And once He did, the only choice we had left would be whether to look at it as a friendly bail-out or a hostile takeover.

Of course, I can offer little proof for this hypothesis other than a handful of ancient scriptural passages from the Bible, from the Gospel of Thomas and from other sacred scriptures (which many scholars now suggest are actually older and more authentic than the canonical texts). However, Jesus' solution, as described in such scriptures, fits right in with the pathology described by modern psychology and the binary soul doctrine. The expansion of Jesus' perfectly integrated mind throughout the universe, melding in the process to all other human minds, would have provided a perfect and elegant solution to humanity's ancient spiritual dilemma. His perfect integrity would have become our own. “Jesus said, ‘He who will drink from My mouth will become like Me. I myself will become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him’” (The Gospel of Thomas 108). But instead of revisiting those arguments here, I will merely point the interested reader to my earlier work, The Division of Consciousness, which explores this hypothesis in some depth.

I will say here, however, that we all ought to hope mightily that this hypothesis is correct, for the old path is not enough. The old path, which required us to individually achieve personal perfection and complete integrity, the path that Judaeo-Christian tradition calls “The Law of Moses,” or “The Law,” has plainly shown itself inadequate to our needs. Like communism, it seems like it would work if everyone followed it faithfully, but alas, that's the whole problem. We're not even faithful with ourselves, so how can we be expected to be faithful to anything else?
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
@Don Genaro ,

The concept of soul division is really something to ponder for me too. Also, the concept of "group sou"l is a reoccurring part of the sessions.

What few realize, however, is that even if He did pay our debts for us, that would still not actually release us from our indebtedness. There's no such thing as a free lunch, even for Christians. When one bank takes over another, assuming all its debts, the accounts of the first bank's debtors are not wiped clean, but transferred to the second bank. In the same way, when Jesus paid our debts for us, we did not simply become debt-free, but now, instead of merely owing ourselves, we now owed Him.
He now had leverage over us.
It is interesting that Peter Novak would use the same phrase that Laura emphasizes so many times, "There's no such thing as a free lunch".

The bank analogy is also an interesting way to look at who pays the debts. In this 3D duality, we are looking for a way as you put it to "integrate" the negative and positive parts of our souls. 1D through 4D seems to be where the dualities are acted upon and sorted out.

This integration/unity concept has been a central theme in many threads. I think and it touches on the meaning of such things as law vs love and division vs unity.

One example of this lack of integration seems to have been described by the Cs as the lack of a "magnetic center" as mentioned by Gurdjieff. Perhaps it is the lack of that central foundation that pulls together the negative and positive aspects of our being into a unified balanced whole that divides us and perpetuates strife and divisions among us.

Session 7 September 2013
Q: (L) Alright. I think probably what our group members, at least on the FOTCM forum, would be interested in knowing is: What was the deal with {name redacted}?

A: Personality clash.

Q: (L) Personality clash with me personally?

A: Yes

Q: (L) And what was the nature of this clash?

A: She wanted to dominate.

Q: (L) Weird way to dominate. Was her way of dominating by manipulating pity and all that sort of thing?

A: Isn't that usually the way? But notice the pity was reserved for the self.

Q: (L) Are you saying that it's something like narcissism?

A: Rampant!

Q: (L) Anything further than that, or deeper than that?

A: Usually a sign of those lacking a magnetic center.

Q: (L) Hmm. Is it kind of like this article I was re-reading the other day about endoskeletons versus exoskeletons where exoskeleton-type people according to this guy's theory are kind of like people who need rules on the outside because they're unable to integrate anything on the inside? {See: Moral Endo-skeletons and Exo-skeletons: A Perspective on America's Cultural Divide and Current Crisis -- Sott.net }

A: Close. What is inside is so infantile it cannot see beyond the self.
Perhaps it is not a problem that is easily solved without The Work on our internal "magnetic center". Without this internal regulation, we often seek to project our own will onto others or require external "laws" to keep us in check it seems. Love for others would perhaps have to start from our own balanced "magnetic center". Doing this "Work" is perhaps a way to pay for our own "lunch" and find that at some point we can also love our own being and project that outward to others.
 
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