Session 7 September 2013

[l apprenti de forgeron]

It seems to me that Joseph Atwill throws out the baby with the bathwater, claiming that the story of Jesus was completely invented and has no historical person ever existed that was the origin of it all. Which is only half true at best. I haven't seen his film or read his book but I understand that's basically what he's claiming.

If so, then the worst would be that this guy generate so much noise that achieve further obscure the truth for the masses. And the truth is revolutionary enough to not leave anyone indifferent. It is much more convenient for the powerful of this world that Jesus be a pure invention instead based in someone who wanted to make big changes. Therefore they fear the danger that people make connections and they, the ptb, lose their privileges. This topic seems to be like a kind of big bomb than can be fragmented into several others bombs (like the old Saturn comet) that can change our whole civilization, and do not know if Atwill is at the nivel of the challenge proposed by the truth (thinking that this kind of information "uncovered" and impressive are like challenges for all of us who inhabiting this planet at this times).

 

[Leonarda]

It seems to me that Joseph Atwill throws out the baby with the bathwater, claiming that the story of Jesus was completely invented and has no historical person ever existed that was the origin of it all. Which is only half true at best. I haven't seen his film or read his book but I understand that's basically what he's claiming.

If so, then the worst would be that this guy generate so much noise that achieve further obscure the truth for the masses. And the truth is revolutionary enough to not leave anyone indifferent. It is much more convenient for the powerful of this world that Jesus be a pure invention instead based in someone who wanted to make big changes. Therefore they fear the danger that people make connections and they, the ptb, lose their privileges. This topic seems to be like a kind of big bomb than can be fragmented into several others bombs (like the old Saturn comet) that can change our whole civilization, and do not know if Atwill is at the nivel of the challenge proposed by the truth (thinking that this kind of information "uncovered" and impressive are like challenges for all of us who inhabiting this planet at this times).

To me knowing that Jesus didn't exist as we were told and the huge cover up that goes in hand with it is fascinating and revolutionary, but I don't think that this information is enough to kick PTB asses out of power.

It could affect the lives of some Christians (the ones that base their daily choices in their faith) but atheists or agnostics would say "I knew it! there's nothing after death". Then, the followers of others religions would reinforce the faith in their own Gods, they would say "this is the proof that only our God is the one" etc

I feel the PTB are playing poker with us..

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

To me knowing that Jesus didn't exist as we were told and the huge cover up that goes in hand with it is fascinating and revolutionary, but I don't think that this information is enough to kick PTB asses out of power.

It could affect the lives of some Christians (the ones that base their daily choices in their faith) but atheists or agnostics would say "I knew it! there's nothing after death". Then, the followers of others religions would reinforce the faith in their own Gods, they would say "this is the proof that only our God is the one" etc

I feel the PTB are playing poker with us..

I agree with you, Leonarda. But I think if we all know the truth about who was the Christ it would be a revolution for believers and non-believers, and to people of other religions as well. Some revolutions would be perhaps postive and some negative, but all are lessons! For people with "faith" would be really something terrifying, something that would lead to nihilism, perhaps a suicidal nihilism (and this could very interested to sadistic ptb). It would be like waking up from a children's story to a terrible world, where access to achieve true spirituality is much more difficult than they thought. But either way for believers and agnostics and atheists would have to take them as individuals (if they have souls or not, the balance between the level of knowledge and being, etc). And it would be revolutionary, in a positive way, because it would force people to finally seek the truth and not believe that already have. Recognizing the fragility of us all, as a species, no one would be allowed anesthetize the masses with tales of heavenly rewards for being a good lamb, not allow political pathology or in business or any other field. On so tremendous a reality everyone would have to respond with its their real faith in life, and their strong or weak substrate on the evidence and truth. I mean , it's always like this, but this issue of Christ is like taking a huge buffer to this civilization (this also should know the ptb, with its "mass psychology"). It will let everyone know that there is no "free lunch". And vital terms like "progress" for example, could change, and that Christians would see that the emergence of his faith, his God, it's not a step forward or special but are at the same level as the mummies or the cult of the dead Egyptians or cults of various peoples "inferior " or non-Western. The same can be said of the Christian truth and moral: they have no universal prerogatives on the other traditions. So maybe revolutionize science, art, relationships between individuals and peoples, other ways of looking the history, etc. All this thinking about it long term, but we are in a cataclysmic period, so what it is born of this will be pretty amazing.
As this can benefit other religions: for Sure! But just as Christianity, the other two major monotheistic religions, be can disarm their false foundations. The issues of comets is revolutionary (I have not finished HoM yet) and can destroy many lies. And I remember read on SH about some archaeologist (and the British government with who negotiated silence) had evidence of the falsity of the narrative of the exodus, and what really happened in Egypt. That could end the "right" of Israel to the land and the "faith" in their God.

 

[Yozilla]

Maybe we could discuss this Atwill's presentation in some layman's PC terminology? Maybe PTB are "uninstalling" old drivers before starting The New Matrix 2014. OP? Monotheistic drivers are becoming obsolete and so is hardware (Vatican, Israel etc). If there would be OWG it will be best supported by One World Religion - i guess. And all should be done as smoothly as it can, so people could embrace New Order Punks wholeheartedly - as true saviors of humanity to whom they ought to grant future obedience...

Y

 

[Leonarda]

I agree with you, Leonarda. But I think if we all know the truth about who was the Christ it would be a revolution for believers and non-believers, and to people of other religions as well. Some revolutions would be perhaps postive and some negative, but all are lessons! For people with "faith" would be really something terrifying, something that would lead to nihilism, perhaps a suicidal nihilism (and this could very interested to sadistic ptb). It would be like waking up from a children's story to a terrible world, where access to achieve true spirituality is much more difficult than they thought. But either way for believers and agnostics and atheists would have to take them as individuals (if they have souls or not, the balance between the level of knowledge and being, etc). And it would be revolutionary, in a positive way, because it would force people to finally seek the truth and not believe that already have. Recognizing the fragility of us all, as a species, no one would be allowed anesthetize the masses with tales of heavenly rewards for being a good lamb, not allow political pathology or in business or any other field. On so tremendous a reality everyone would have to respond with its their real faith in life, and their strong or weak substrate on the evidence and truth. I mean , it's always like this, but this issue of Christ is like taking a huge buffer to this civilization (this also should know the ptb, with its "mass psychology"). It will let everyone know that there is no "free lunch". And vital terms like "progress" for example, could change, and that Christians would see that the emergence of his faith, his God, it's not a step forward or special but are at the same level as the mummies or the cult of the dead Egyptians or cults of various peoples "inferior " or non-Western. The same can be said of the Christian truth and moral: they have no universal prerogatives on the other traditions. So maybe revolutionize science, art, relationships between individuals and peoples, other ways of looking the history, etc. All this thinking about it long term, but we are in a cataclysmic period, so what it is born of this will be pretty amazing.
As this can benefit other religions: for Sure! But just as Christianity, the other two major monotheistic religions, be can disarm their false foundations. The issues of comets is revolutionary (I have not finished HoM yet) and can destroy many lies. And I remember read on SH about some archaeologist (and the British government with who negotiated silence) had evidence of the falsity of the narrative of the exodus, and what really happened in Egypt. That would end the "right" of Israel to the land and the "faith" in their God.

What a coincidence, I am also reading HOM right now! currently reading the witches chapter :)
I see what you mean I apprenti, I think you are capable of recognizing the potential of the truth, maybe my problem is that I am still processing Laura's/Gurdjieff ideas so I have not reached a balanced view of reality yet and I am more on the pesimistic side.

About the jesus issue I have an example but I'm not sure If it is good enough: Let's say 3 people that drink milk and sugar and gluten are presented by objetive knowledge that milk is bad for their health. The first one would not pay attention and continue with his habits, the second one would stop drinking milk but continue eating sugar and gluten, and the third would stop drinking milk and would also start investigating about the rest of his diet, just in case he is wrong about it too.

 

[anka]

@ I apprenti de forgeron & Leonarda:

I think that no matter with how much truth is presented to the people, always only those who seek for it will be willing enough to try to verify (through networking) and consequently acknowledge the data and the rest will stay blinded by all the available distractions (media, games, relations...). Look at the huge volume of facts and analysis on various topics that has been presented on SOTT and elsewhere and what has happened so far?

Any kind of mass revolution is going to come only at the point when majority will lose everything and remain with their bare lives. Only that will create an environment for everyone to reconsider their belief.

That's why I think that even a proof of nonexistence of Jesus Christ would not bring about a change because most people will simply not pay attention to such a proof. Who cares? Some would say it's a lie, some would say it does not matter anyway and so on. Sadly, the times must get even tougher to make people wake up. We, as a humanity, are sleeping too deeply and so far no horrible things that have been happening in front of us did not change much, just a little - slowly building up the critical mass of awareness. The Earth changes, food & water crisis, and comets have a big potential to change the way things are but, of course, for most people it will be a swan's song to become aware of reality under such circumstances.

So we are back to work on one's own salvation. And I don't mean to say it makes no sense to keep uncovering the Truth, not at all. We must carry on in this direction. Knowledge DOES protect and this forum is a great tool to learn, utilize and share that knowledge.

 

[neema]

@ I apprenti de forgeron & Leonarda:

I think that no matter with how much truth is presented to the people, always only those who seek for it will be willing enough to try to verify (through networking) and consequently acknowledge the data and the rest will stay blinded by all the available distractions (media, games, relations...). Look at the huge volume of facts and analysis on various topics that has been presented on SOTT and elsewhere and what has happened so far?

I can understand that, but I have a different take on it. Remember that sometimes like will attract like. And IMO while the facts and info presented here are golden for the truth seeker, as we all know there is a real “nuts and bolts” war for that very seekers mind. If we want to attract the wider audience, we will need to learn to “speak” to that wider audience.

Imo when the “time” has come for an idea the universe provides a way. For example I have noticed that in the past decade, how the average persons mind has expanded to accept very complicated ideas. IE “time travel”, “parallel worlds”, “hyperdimensional beings”, etc. There are far more people who are into sci-fi now then ever before. And that shows me a possible opportunity, osit.

...
I feel the PTB are playing poker with us..

Indeed, and just like everyone else, i'm fed up with their childish games.

 

[Jasmine]

@ I apprenti de forgeron & Leonarda:

I think that no matter with how much truth is presented to the people, always only those who seek for it will be willing enough to try to verify (through networking) and consequently acknowledge the data and the rest will stay blinded by all the available distractions (media, games, relations...). Look at the huge volume of facts and analysis on various topics that has been presented on SOTT and elsewhere and what has happened so far?

I can understand that, but I have a different take on it. Remember that sometimes like will attract like. And IMO while the facts and info presented here are golden for the truth seeker, as we all know there is a real “nuts and bolts” war for that very seekers mind. If we want to attract the wider audience, we will need to learn to “speak” to that wider audience.

Imo when the “time” has come for an idea the universe provides a way. For example I have noticed that in the past decade, how the average persons mind has expanded to accept very complicated ideas. IE “time travel”, “parallel worlds”, “hyperdimensional beings”, etc. There are far more people who are into sci-fi now then ever before. And that shows me a possible opportunity, osit.

[quote author=anka]
Any kind of mass revolution is going to come only at the point when majority will lose everything and remain with their bare lives. Only that will create an environment for everyone to reconsider their belief.

That's why I think that even a proof of nonexistence of Jesus Christ would not bring about a change because most people will simply not pay attention to such a proof. Who cares? Some would say it's a lie, some would say it does not matter anyway and so on. Sadly, the times must get even tougher to make people wake up. We, as a humanity, are sleeping too deeply and so far no horrible things that have been happening in front of us did not change much, just a little - slowly building up the critical mass of awareness. The Earth changes, food & water crisis, and comets have a big potential to change the way things are but, of course, for most people it will be a swan's song to become aware of reality under such circumstances.

That is one possibility yes, but imo it also depends on how the story is presented to the mass audience. I like the idea of the “hundredth monkey effect”. I think a true historical account that is presented "well" can speak to people on a subconscious level.
[/quote]

To me it sounds like both sides of this discussion are correct here but it's a matter of perspective. The glass is either half full or half empty. I would have to agree with neema on this in the perspective of the glass is half full.

To summarize the “hundredth monkey effect" for those who've never heard of it:

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_monkey_effect

The hundredth monkey effect is a supposed phenomenon[1] in which a new behavior or idea is claimed to spread rapidly by unexplained, even supernatural, means from one group to all related groups once a critical number of members of one group exhibit the new behavior or acknowledge the new idea.

The story of the hundredth monkey effect was published in Lyall Watson's foreword to Lawrence Blair's Rhythms of Vision in 1975,[2] and spread with the appearance of Watson's 1979 book Lifetide. The claim is that unidentified scientists were conducting a study of macaque monkeys on the Japanese island of Koshima in 1952.[3] These scientists purportedly observed that some of these monkeys learned to wash sweet potatoes, and gradually this new behavior spread through the younger generation of monkeys—in the usual fashion, through observation and repetition. Watson then claimed that the researchers observed that once a critical number of monkeys was reached—the so-called hundredth monkey—this previously learned behavior instantly spread across the water to monkeys on nearby islands

Also, Rupert Sheldrake has cited that a phenomenon like the hundredth monkey effect would be evidence of morphic fields bringing about non-local effects in consciousness and learning.

Also in context to this dialog, I think "The Butterfly Effect" is a fitting correlation as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependency on initial conditions in which a small change at one place in a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state. The name of the effect, coined by Edward Lorenz, is derived from the theoretical example of a hurricane's formation being contingent on whether or not a distant butterfly had flapped its wings several weeks earlier.

Although the butterfly effect may appear to be an esoteric and unlikely behavior, it is exhibited by very simple systems. For example, a ball placed at the crest of a hill may roll into any surrounding valley depending on, among other things, slight differences in initial position.

The butterfly effect is a common trope in fiction, especially in scenarios involving time travel. Additionally, works of fiction that involve points at which the storyline diverges during a seemingly minor event, resulting in a significantly different outcome than would have occurred without the divergence, are an example of the butterfly effect.

 

[anka]

[quote author=anka]
So we are back to work on one's own salvation.

This sentence bugs me. Because as my current understanding is, we (the human race) are a soul family. How can we ever have individual salvation if we are only part of the whole?
[/quote]

And I don't disagree with you. Must admit that what I wrote might have caused a misunderstanding. The point, as I see it and believe that you too, is that each of us has to start with her/his own stuff. Our own machine, buffers etc. But the thing called salvation will come in most cases, to my understanding, for the collective consciousness as a unit. Is that what you are saying? For the group of people who are actively taking part in the process of uncovering the truth and aligning with it? If that is what you mean then we are in agreement.

Exception would be those people who made it on their own through an immense dedication and intentional hardship & suffering (if I remember and understood well, C's gave an approximate number of those who made it during the last grand cycle, around 3000).

On top of that, I don't think that those who are not working towards this goal, they can't be salvaged along with (I might well be wrong though since my understanding of such a complex issue is not only limited by my 3D perspective but moreover it does by a long shot not reach the level of knowledge of this and other topics which the brightest minds on this forum have).
The reason for it is I think that they made their choice. Consciously or subconsciously.

And to the butterfly/hundredth monkey effect (thank you, Jasmine, for the extracts): I am not trying to cast any doubt on this either. All I meant in my comment above was that it would be a waste of time to hope for the change that we believe might come through some revelation which we would consider a substantial, remarkable, crucial, such as a proof of Jesus Christ being a fake personage. We need to work (starting with ourselves, and definitely network, yes) to make the hope come through and not just believe. That is, I think, the core of Faith.

Maybe the only difference between our views, upon what I sense from your writing, is that you probably feel/think/hope the social changes might come before the major cataclysmic events and I suspect that they will happen right around the time when they hit with full force, when it is going to be too late for most of humanity (i.e. C's 94%?).

But even that does not really bother me since I am in no way going to solve this. I am grateful and feel blessed I found this place which taught me about my own crooked view of myself, of the world, and offered me a way out of my big Lie. Never mind it's a long way to go

 

[neema]

And I don't disagree with you. Must admit that what I wrote might have caused a misunderstanding. The point, as I see it and believe that you too, is that each of us has to start with her/his own stuff.

Fully agree, leading by example is the key.

[quote author=anka]
Our own machine, buffers etc. But the thing called salvation will come in most cases, to my understanding, for the collective consciousness as a unit. Is that what you are saying? For the group of people who are actively taking part in the process of uncovering the truth and aligning with it? If that is what you mean then we are in agreement.
[/quote]

Yes exactly, fragmented soul unit. Thanks for clarifying anka. :)

[quote author=anka]
Exception would be those people who made it on their own through an immense dedication and intentional hardship & suffering (if I remember and understood well, C's gave an approximate number of those who made it during the last grand cycle, around 3000).
[/quote]

Interesting, but another way to look at it is in a non-liner way. I see the “last” grand cycle as the next grand cycle. That it is all happening “right” now. Don’t know if that makes sense.

[quote author=anka]
On top of that, I don't think that those who are not working towards this goal, they can't be salvaged along with (I might well be wrong though since my understanding of such a complex issue is not only limited by my 3D perspective but moreover it does by a long shot not reach the level of knowledge of this and other topics which the brightest minds on this forum have).
[/quote]

How do know for sure “they” are not working towards this goal. It may be difficult to see if you have a set of preconceptions of what the “work” should be. If I’m not mistaken the C's mentioned somewhere that Laura's group is but one of many groups and paths that may be at play. Imo the work can take on many forms that may or may not be so easily apparent at first glance.

I can tell you from experience that sometimes I learned my biggest lessons from people and situations I assumed were in no way “work” related. After all, this world does resemble a school just as much as a prison. I suppose that is also a matter of perspective.

I do agree with you that our understanding of such a complex issue is limited by our 3D perspective.

[quote author=anka]
The reason for it is I think that they made their choice. Consciously or subconsciously.
[/quote]

Hum well you make it sound like the choices are set in stone! ;)

Again seeing it in a non liner way may help. That since there is really no “time” people are constantly making choices gain and again. That’s why the PTB imo are so invested in information management. For if the people only knew, they would instantly gravitate towards the most natural choice, osit.

[quote author=anka]
And to the butterfly/hundredth monkey effect (thank you, Jasmine, for the extracts): I am not trying to cast any doubt on this either. All I meant in my comment above was that it would be a waste of time to hope for the change that we believe might come through some revelation which we would consider a substantial, remarkable, crucial, such as a proof of Jesus Christ being a fake personage. We need to work (starting with ourselves, and definitely network, yes) to make the hope come through and not just believe. That is, I think, the core of Faith.
[/quote]
Yes thank you Jasmine for the extracts.

And I also agree with you here that non anticipation is another key.

[quote author=anka]
Maybe the only difference between our views, upon what I sense from your writing, is that you probably feel/think/hope the social changes might come before the major cataclysmic events and I suspect that they will happen right around the time when they hit with full force, when it is going to be too late for most of humanity (i.e. C's 94%?).
[/quote]

Kind of but not exactly. From my understanding the cataclysmic event is directly tied to the collective choice of humanity, furthermore depending on our individual frequency vibration, we may not experience the event as traumatizing and in fact may find it very rejuvenating, osit.

[quote author=anka]
But even that does not really bother me since I am in no way going to solve this. I am grateful and feel blessed I found this place which taught me about my own crooked view of myself, of the world, and offered me a way out of my big Lie. Never mind it's a long way to go
[/quote]

Oh I couldn’t agree more with you here. I’m also humbled and feel blessed and grateful for all the work researched and revealed here.

Also I know it's a cliche but it's a good one, “A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.”

 

[anka]

Exception would be those people who made it on their own through an immense dedication and intentional hardship & suffering (if I remember and understood well, C's gave an approximate number of those who made it during the last grand cycle, around 3000).

Interesting, but another way to look at it is in a non-liner way. I see the “last” grand cycle as the next grand cycle. That it is all happening “right” now. Don’t know if that makes sense.

It does indeed. Again, I didn't mean the past tense as a fixed past in the linear way of thinking. It surely is relative and just as current as our future.

[quote author=anka]
Maybe the only difference between our views, upon what I sense from your writing, is that you probably feel/think/hope the social changes might come before the major cataclysmic events and I suspect that they will happen right around the time when they hit with full force, when it is going to be too late for most of humanity (i.e. C's 94%?).

Kind of but not exactly. From my understanding the cataclysmic event is directly tied to the collective choice of humanity, furthermore depending on our individual frequency vibration, we may not experience the event as traumatizing and in fact may find it very rejuvenating, osit.

I definitely agree with this one. This world is basically unlivable for those who can feel, who have a conscience, because to witness the suffering of other beings on a mass scale is unbearable, yet we have to work through it and ... have fun?

There comes frustration, quiet often, so the clearing of the house by whatever means is perhaps going to feel like a rejuvenating process for us.

At times I find myself sort of looking forward to it although I would love to see some chance of society making the change itself before any crazy things happen. However, according to experience and research of Andrew Lobaczewski, such a change, if it was possible these days, would not bring any long-term positive results. Not on our 3D Big Blue Marble with psychopaths on it and inside it. So let's face the reality.

---

Thank you, neema, for taking the time to engage in this discussion. From your comments I have learnt how much more attention I need to pay to my expressing of thoughts. I thought all what I typed was fairly clear ... and it only was a clear wishful thinking:)

 

[Ca.]

Session Date: September 7th 2013
Q: (L) So they're not doing anything about climate change - and I don't mean global warming, either. I mean what's going on here on the planet right now in a big way. They're not doing anything about that, they're not doing anything to straighten out the vast inequity between the rich and poor... (Perceval)Are we talking about this Syria business at some level having been decided upon...

A: Yes, of course! Who do you think sent in the people to stir up that mess??!?

Q: (Perceval)Well, there's all sorts of talk about strategic colonial agendas: pipelines and blah blah blah...

A: Have any of their plans worked thus far except to put billions in their pockets?

Q: (Perceval)So it is just a racket!

A: Yes

Q: (Perceval)For making money and distracting people. (L) And distracting the people from kicking them out of power by keeping the people afraid.

A: Yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Q: (Perceval)See, that's just unthinkable to me, that they'd have a war just to have a war for no other good reason than to make money.

A: That is psychopathy for you!

Q: (Atriedes) Right before Hillary Clinton went all evil with the Libya thing, I noticed that she suddenly swelled and became very inflamed looking. And then John Kerry right before this Syria thing, he got a lot more puffy and now he has this weird lazy eye, his eyes swelled, and his face, and he's starting to puff out, too. Is that kind of like the sign that they've turned evil when they become mega-inflamed?

A: Evil takes its toll on the body.

Q: (Atriedes) So, cutting out the evil is more important than cutting out the calories. (L) Pretty much! (Andromeda) So, there's no intent of pushing people to a revolution with some of this revolution hype and drama...?

A: Sure! It will make billions for some people and others plan to come in and set up shop on the ashes. But as we just asked: When have their plans for results actually worked as they present them?

Q: (Ark) I think there is another reason. You start the war, and then you let some kinds of these rebels to have access to nuclear weapons. Can you imagine how much more Homeland Security you will be able to have then if you let all these "Islamist rebels" get these weapons? Give your enemy advanced weapons, pretend you are helping them to get rid of Assad, and then later, "Oh, we didn't know they are terrorists, but now they have access to these weapons! We have to close our borders! We have to control everything!" (Andromeda) It's creepy, some of these reports of Homeland Security making these huge orders of hollow point bullets, and building these compounds with fences... It looks like they're kind of getting ready for some revolution or something. (Perceval)I wondered if those reports are just...

A: The real war, as you know, is on normal people via proxies.

Q: (Kniall) Are the Russians really trying to stop this?

A: At the moment.

Boy he be looking a bit rough and puffy i would say.

President Obama: 'Freedom is more powerful than fear...
Published on Dec 6, 2015
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLcJ-fXIEuA
short utuber feeded This is not a recommendation to his channel
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz3CwmSJNbE
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJpk6rksmtU

And people buy this BS all the FF's of manipulation.

The function of education is to teach one to think intensively and to think critically. Intelligence plus character - that is the goal of true education.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

The President Addresses the Nation on Keeping the American People Safe
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMDV3VY0tPA