Shoutwire as COINTELPRO

[Hildegarda]

I was the guy responsible for hiring 90% of the editors we have now, and had a hand in hiring the other 10%. I am also arguably the most popular writer on the site. [..] Go ahead and flame me if you want, like you did my other editors. This time, however, instead of being like all the other mindless sheep on the internet and finding something I posted somewhere else, attack the ideas I have set forth here. Either that, or you can agree with me that this is all rather silly.

If you are the person who is responsible for Shoutwire's content and policies, it is your duty to apoligize to Laura personally and to SOTT team for all the vile insults and other verbal trash that has appeared on Shoutwire.

Doublecrossing people and then viciously defaming them in an undisguised character assasination is not my idea of silly.

 

[Hildegarda]

[
By "criticisms" you must mean defamation, lies and character assassination judging by all the obscene and unsubstantiated comments about SOTT you and your fellow editors allow and perpetuate time and time again. From Shoutwire's own term's of usage, you will find this:

"You are prohibited from submitting or transmitting to or from the Site any unlawful, threatening, libelous, defamatory, obscene, or pornographic materials that would violate any law or the rights of others, including without limitation, laws against copyright infringement."

It's also apparent from the editorial that your staff's intent is disingenuous as it violates your own terms and guidelines in the extreme!

Add to that the fact that as of right now, one can find, on the front page of Shoutsire, the story of Britney Spears baring her ... khm ... privates, submited no less than THREE times!

That's beyond violating terms and guidelines, that's Spankwire openly crossing into Shoutwire, no pun intended :)

 

[STeeL]

No I'm not part of the Shoutwire staff.
The britney spears thing is a link to spankwire. You get the adult disclaimer over there.

The rules also states "pornographic materials that would violate... ". :)

 

[Hildegarda]

No I'm not part of the Shoutwire staff.
The britney spears thing is a link to spankwire. You get the adult disclaimer over there.

The rules also states "pornographic materials that would violate... ". :)

WOW!!


An alternative news site that links openly to another part of the same holding, a PORN site ... protected by a fig leaf of an 'adult disclaimer', how touching ...

:)

And I was wondering why Shoutwire people, who are now posting the usual expletive-laden comments under the SOTT's Shoutwire/Spankwire piece, seem completely unfased at the discovery of this, shall I say, unsavory connection.

Aside from the fact that this is simply all out WEIRD, there is another obvious problem with it.

Judging from the level of comments and some of the topics posted on Shoutwire, you get quite a few older teenagers at your site, possibly high school students. These are underage readers. Whose parents at some point may be interested to find out the exact nature of your site, and filter it out on their home comps, and may be even raise a wide-reaching stink about it.

I know I would if I had older kids.

And you guys trying to marginalize SOTT by calling it a cult? Geez, that's a VERY, VERY blatant little pot calling a kettle black.

ROFTLMAO!
:) :)

 

[atreides]

Little boys throw stones at frogs in sport, but the frogs, they die in earnest.

Zero was banned by me, he was given reason for why he was banned in the email, I will post it here:

You have been banned due to not meeting the boards requirements for 1) Being Human, 2) Have a measureable IQ and 3) Calling a moderator's mother a cunt and a whore, which was kinda obvious, don't you think?

Your site is essentialy a traffic funnel. I am sure Wes plans on creating his own affiliate network and raking in the dough, or perhaps he already has them setup and is waiting for critical mass and then is going to connect them. Your site is not the first to follow this model, I have been in webdesign for many years, and have seen this strategy in play, the irony of it all is that shoutwire has become a bit of a success despite it's vapidity at times.

I appreciate your positions on this matter, and you should appreciate ours. Your arguments are inflamatory and your very presence is due to a defamatory article posted on your site, one which attacks a mother of five children, and a researcher of 35 years, you call it's members a paranoid cult, one of it's main editors and writers various derogatory names with the intent to interfere with both her research, and that of this group. Your faux politeness borders on the criminal, you marginalize a group of people and then expect them to fight on your turf with temperance, you are living in a fantasy world.

But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

And you my dear Preston are an unfeeling monster, to you, this serves no purpose, to you it is sport, but we are serious, and you and your ilk are a disruption. You are here to put us on trial, where you are the judge and the jury, the burden of proof is never on the defense, you have made your claim, and you have been weighed and measured and been found wanting. What care we the mirages you have conjured in the eyes of the profane, or so the saying goes.

And so with much adieu, I thank you and your friends and fellow members for your offers of quarter, but so sorry, I cannot offer you the same, you will find no friend or foe or mercy or hate here. Your sad attempt at looking big has failed, Vir's article was a one page essay the equivalent of a flea climbing up the back of an elephant with rape on its mind.

And further more, shame on you, shame on you and yours, without honor or decency, you have the gall to return to this board feigning equanimity, you must think us fools to not see through your ridiculous trap, and what gall is this to meet you on a field of battle, you are a child who has not yet put away childish things, animal man, get thee hence, in the old days you would be refused a challenge because you are unworthy and here to and now, you are refused.

It is offensive to have to even deal with you, the lapdog of a lapdog, you are a group of porn pushers, your site exists only to enhance the other, you are the lowest of the low, legion though you may be, you would break your armies on our bow, you are the little wave that couldn't.

 

[STeeL]

I'm not part of the Sott vs. SW debate. I would probably be if I caught up from the beginning, and if it wouldn't be so hard for me to read your guys' "higher level" writing or whatever it's called (you might think I'm stupid right here but I got good grades. B's and such. Yes, in language). If you want to debate go and make an article on SW (It could be here if the debaters weren't banned).

Anyhow, it seems that you didn't see what I meant to say with the last line of my last post.

"You are prohibited from submitting or transmitting to or from the Site any unlawful, threatening, libelous, defamatory, obscene, or
pornographic materials that would violate any law or the rights of others, including without limitation, laws against copyright infringement."

It doesn't say that it's against the rules to post pornography on SW. It says that subscribing pornography that violates any laws isn't allowed.
Like pictures of nude children. Normal pornography doesn't violate any laws.
And it's also not like Shoutwire isn't a resource for porn. I saw Britneys shots on national news. Sure it's fuzzed out. But they wouldn't fuzz out if it weren't for laws. The disclaimer thing on Spankwire acts the same.


OK, it's also perfectly normal for older teenagers to use porn. Imagine an 18 year old that never saw porn in his life. That might be the first time he's officially allowed to use it but also... it's kind of weird. Heck, the legal age for intercourse is sixteen over here. If they know how to have safe sex then I believe it's fine.

Now, I don't feel like discussing this anymore. You probably aren't agreeing with me and I don't agree with you. I'm not trying to convert you to my sex beliefs or something. I was just doing a favor for someone I know.

*edit*

atreides, it's not a trap. Zero is offering a debate. That's all I was here for. Now I might even come back tomorrow, to see if anyone else makes nasty comments about me helping somebody out. Notice that this is the first time I wrote just a breeze of a direct insult. Wasn't there something about SW prejudicing on SOTT? Don't prejudice me, atreides.

 

[atreides]

LOL, That was too rich.

I do disagree with your stance on porn, and I find your connection between porn and safe sex to be beyond tenuous. You have been enlightened to the status of your friend, you have been very level, which is why you are not banned, we are not unreasonable, but this is our house, it is not a public forum it requires registration and is openly moderated, if you walked into a neighbors house and called his mother a dirty name, would you expect him to hold a debate with you and all of your friends in his home? No, he would not, and so we will not.

I do not speak for everyone, but I don't believe that I or anyone here will be venturing to your house to start any "debates." Despite my belief that you are misguided, I would venture to recommend that you reconsider the company you keep, just as some friendly advice. Choose your friends as if they were enemies, let them be bold and upright, strong and curageous, with nary a blemish to their name, for history will forever compare you to your enemies just as your comtemporaries will judge you by the company you keep.

*edit in response to Steel's edit*

All men are prejudiced, it is in our nature to be thus, though for most they don't like popcorn, or chick flicks, and some gays or blacks, but it is all of the same ilk, that is, we make judgements based on experience, right or wrong, you will be judged by your words, your deeds, and even the company you keep. Anyone who says differently, is probably selling something. But if you continue to be kind and pragmatic in your posts, then you will be judged kind, and pragmatic, and so people will not be prejudiced against you, but for you.

Trap in the figurative sense :)

Also, you seem to be making a prediction, that we will give you crap, which you have seen from other people getting flack, would that mean you are prejudiced? Or beginning to form a prejudice, perhaps something like "They just give people shit, no matter what they say", or "Those culties, they just can't take confrontation of their beliefs" etc and so forth. Your are playing a NIGYYSOB (Now I got you, you son of a beeyatch) game. You make a pointed comment, then predict a negative response, which would be normal, and then you can freely say "See, I was right, you did it, Now I Got You You Son Of a Btch"

 

[the+other+ben]

xxoozero asks why you don't want to respond to him, he even dares you to.

What's next? Will zero issue a double-dog-dare? On the contrary, from what I've seen the readers and editors of SOTT have responded more than adequately. What more does he want? Seeming that y'all are so intent on playing games, how about, say, a pajama party complete with a wicked pillow fight and segueing into titillating game of Spin the Bottle! We have no neither the time nor the interest for childish games.

He's offering fair play, making sure that your article will be at the front page the same time as his.

Now out of thin air there's talk of "fair play" yet in the same sentence there's assurances that the ranking of SOTT's article will be just as rigged as Shoutwire's editorial? Talk about hypocritical! The thing that attracted SOTT readers to Shoutwire in the first place was the concept of a "democratic media" but now we're beginning to understand what your site (and "affiliate" sites) are really about.

I personally think zero's attempts at dialog have more to do with baiting us into a big flame fest (to boost your site stats, perhaps?) than it does with a sincere attempt to reconcile. To my knowledge, no public apology has been forthcoming and this fact speaks louder than your conciliatory words.

+Ben

 

[allenb]

Note: formerly username allen. Account problems :O

I've got to say, this has been one amazing exchange for me. Like all of us, I've been exposed to psychopaths all my life. One thing I've always had a difficult time with is controlling my temper when faced with obvious lies told maliciously by psychopathic punks (yeah, that is a bit of the temper spilling through right now...LOL). My brother used to make good use of that when we were kids. He'd find me standing near my own things and start pointing at me to inflame my temper. Eventually, if he kept it up long enough, I'd break my own things in anger. Cute.

My point with that is this: I am the sort of person I think they are targeting with the editorial on shoutwire--the kind of person whose emotions quickly overtake them when buttons are pushed. I ran into what amounts to a version of the same article written by a guy named Vincent Bridges when I first started reading the cassiopaean material. The similarity that jumps out at me is the listing of the ways to identify a cult. The word "cult" is an emotionally hot one for any of us who grew up in the 70's with the "Moonies" and Jonestown and news stories about deprogramming. For a minute, I actually started buying it. I thought, "what the heck am I reading here?"

Then I thought about it a bit. He listed a bunch of ways to define a cult but failed to really connect any of those ways to the cass group. There were a few pitiful tries, but they really amounted to things like, "cults have leaders that exert absolute control over their followers; the Cassiopean Experiment has a leader named LKJ!!" Sighs.

Yeah, I've been one of those guys who, despite high intelligence, can be made into an almost complete imbecile through the pushing of a couple of emotional buttons. There are plenty of us around. My current aim in Working is dealing with that issue. This exchange has been valuable in helping me with that aim. It has provided me with a lot of opportunities to have my emotional buttons pushed so that I can watch how the whole dynamic plays out.

I feel almost sad for the folks like bolshoy who don't care (I said *almost* said). What he and others like him will never know is a simple fact that has been stated over and over on this forum and related sites: learning is fun!!!

 

[Hildegarda]

Anyhow, it seems that you didn't see what I meant to say with the last line of my last post.

The irony of the situation appears to be completely lost on you.

Everybody here is perfectly aware of the laws. But there is also an expression, 'laws without morals are useless'. It applies to your discourse 100%.

If something is within the bounds of law, but serves to objectify people and substitutes normal relationship for twisted manipulation, it cannot be a moral choice. Perhaps, this is why in most of the universe porn is still perceived, deep down, as shameful.

You might want to reconsider who you associate with -- people who openly promote porn as a legitimate part of news landscape and human life.

There was plenty of intelligent response to all issues raised by you and yours on this forum. As of yet, there wasn't any responsible and reasoned comment coming from Shoutwire staff and associates, and no apologies either.

As you by now may understand, no one here is interested in a 'debate' a.k.a. cat-fight a.k.a. mud-slinging you are trying to lure ut into. Please tell it to whoever has sent you.

 

[atreides]

xxoozero asks why you don't want to respond to him, he even dares you to.

What's next? Will zero issue a double-dog-dare? On the contrary, from what I've seen the readers and editors of SOTT have responded more than adequately. What more does he want? Seeming that y'all are so intent on playing games, how about, say, a pajama party complete with a wicked pillow fight and segueing into titillating game of Spin the Bottle! We have no neither the time nor the interest for childish games.

I personally think zero's attempts at dialog have more to do with baiting us into a big flame fest (to boost your site stats, perhaps?) than it does with a sincere attempt to reconcile. To my knowledge, no public apology has been forthcoming and this fact speaks louder than your conciliatory words.

+Ben

And you are not helping either side. In the realm of politics, there are never apologies, SOTT isn't running to mama and telling on the bad SW people. I appreciate your enthusiasm Ben, and yes, the daring us to come and have a flame war is a little childish, but at the same, why not take an olive branch as an olive branch. We have no intention of entering into a flame war, and peace can be bought at a premium. We have all said our peace on the subject, so why not let it slide a little and not respond with a knee jerk reaction, remember, they are human beings too. It isn't Us vs Them, it's Us vs Us and Them vs Them. We may not agree, but war, even a flame war, is not something one enters into lightly.

As long as Steel, and other shoutwire associated peoples remain civil, and do not engage to flame or goad or insult personally members of this site, as is what zero did, which was why he was banned, not from his comments necessarily, simply because he made a personal attack against one of the owners of this site, who happens to be a Mod, and whose son happens to be a mod and very quick on the ban button., then said peoples may stay, may ask questions, and as questioners, should be treated with some measure of equanimity until they show that they merit otherwise, remember, innocent until proven guilty.

 

[ark]

That's all I was here for. Now I might even come back tomorrow, to see if anyone else makes nasty comments about me

You see, it is not about YOU. It is about what is going on on this planet. It is about the whole situation and how truth is being totally irrelevant for jerks like zero and bulshoy. For them it is all about having FUN. Some people grow out of this attitude - so typical. But some stay there forever. What about YOU?

 

[Third_Density_Resident]

Hello all, I'm back after a rather long "leave" period. It would seem that I have come back right into the thick of things. You know, when I first found out that SOTT was going to participate in Shoutwire, I had this negative feeling about it, that it would somehow result in SOTT getting taken advantage of or worse, attacked by a bunch of psychopathic entities. It turns out that I was right, alas.

I can't really add any more comments to the situation, as those present have already done a very good job of it, but I will just say that at this point in time, now that the psychopaths have been identified, the best thing to do is to completely disengage from said psychopaths, and just learn from them. As most of us already know, trying to "teach" psychopaths new things is impossible. They don't exist to learn new things. They have absolutely no interest or love of the truth, and make no attempt to conceal this view. It is a waste of time and effort on our part to attempt to make them "see the error of their ways"; so all we can do is add this whole Shoutwire experience into the long catalogue of real-life practical examples of what psychopaths are capable of, where they "live", and what mentality they tend to have, and use this to warn others. The world is crawling with them!

Now, that said, I must confess that like allenb, I have trouble at times controlling my temper in the face of what are so obviously blatant lies or vicious psychopathic attacks. I could have posted something several pages ago, but refrained from doing so because I was still so riled up by the hideous injustice of it all. That someone can attack a woman (Laura) whose whole life work has been the quest for one thing, and one thing only -- TRUTH -- and attack her in the most lowly, cowardly way possible, just makes me boil. How can these people have the audacity to think that by doing a quick skim over one or two pages here and there, they can bring down a person's whole life work with a single page? It truly is a wicked, evil act which can ONLY be the work of a soul-less entitiy.

Which brings me to my initial reaction to Vincent Bridges' website attempting to discredit Laura and her work. I encountered this website about 20 months ago, and like you allenb, actually began to buy it. I started to break out into a sweat and seriously question what I had got myself into. But then I sat back, and thought to myself that one of the things that Laura and SOTT have always taught is critical thinking, careful analysis, and not allowing emotions to take control. And that's what was happening to me initially. My emotions literally took over, and that's what psychopaths are so good at causing. With emotional buttons, they hijack people's reason and ability to think with perspicacity and thus the ball very easily falls into their court. But I did not let this happen (as so many would have after seeing Vincent's website). I simply re-read all the accusations he made, his attempt to show how Cassiopaea is a cult, and then after doing a little bit of research and reading of my own (and believe me, it didn't take much) saw immediately how disingenuous this man is, and how pathetic his "cult" argument was. I mean I didn't really even have to do any extra reading, because right there on the page I could tell, from my own experience, that things he was saying were either twisted half-truths, outright lies, or thinly veiled ad hominem attacks. It's just that at first, my emotional response went into overdrive, and I wasn't so much reading the words as skimming quickly over them, and seeing words like "CULT!" jumping out at me. Context, rational thinking and reason flew out the window.

Yeah, I've been one of those guys who, despite high intelligence, can be made into an almost complete imbecile through the pushing of a couple of emotional buttons. There are plenty of us around. My current aim in Working is dealing with that issue. This exchange has been valuable in helping me with that aim. It has provided me with a lot of opportunities to have my emotional buttons pushed so that I can watch how the whole dynamic plays out.

And this is precisely the problem that I have. I likewise consider myself to be an intelligent guy, but also prone to becoming an imbecile after people push those buttons. And this is why, as I stated above, I did not want to post anything until I had calmed down. Anger management is an issue I need to work through as well.

 

[foofighter]

What you consider to be the truth, most consider to be stark-raving madness. But of course, it is YOU who are correct, right? Everyone's wrong but you. Typical conspiracy theorist.

I came to this forum in an attempt not only to clarify our site's policy, but to test the validity of Virellek's accusations. I must say, I am absolutely shocked by what I read here. It is blatantly obvious that you people have SERIOUS mental problems. That's not an insult. I am being deadly serious here. What is spouted in this forum is absolutely insane. Accusations being thrown around, arroganc on a level that I have never encountered before, and brainwashed individuals the likes of which I have never seen.

It is blatantly clear that there is no point in entering into further discussion. The statements made by Virellek in his editorial are no longer in question. Enjoy your sad, paranoid existance. Good day.

"boohoo, I am unable to draw you into my reality bubble where we can all flame each other to pieces. If I cannot manipulate you or deceive you that must mean you are evil and insane! How can someone be normal and not be tricked by the Great Bulshoy!?! It cannot be!!... nooo... I'm melting... oh cruel world..."

 

[Z...]

Been following this from the begining and I cannot stop but wander how did we end up here in a first place?

Now I regret I refrained myself from commenting a month ago when the first raw broke up, I love telling people: I told u so!! :P

It is beyond me why would anyone from this forum even want to go on shoutwire and have any interaction with the site that caters for such kind of audience. Let alone being linked with such site. As its name says this site is nothing but noisein its worst form, trying to outscream your debate oponent, insults, lies. If they are not bunch of kids
( and the chances are they are not) than its even worse.

The PR effect would be aproximately the same if Henry, Laura or Ark decided to give an interview for a british tabloid. They would be on the first page I am sure, but...

I dont have any doubts intentions of our editors were the best, but it was a big , big error of judgement and now we have to suffer the consequences.

At least we learned something from this perfect example of interaction with
psychopaths.