Smoking is... good?

[Gaby]

What would be your source for this information about blood flow? I have heard this stuff before but I have never been able to find any sound science to back it up.

On the other hand, I remember this study published on SOTT:

Nicotine can boost blood vessel growth
https://www.sott.net/article/258479-Nicotine-can-boost-blood-vessel-growth

Nicotine may not be all bad: A study found it stimulated new blood vessel growth in mice by actively signaling their bone marrow to release vessel-forming adult stem cells.

The finding might translate to the use someday of nicotine as a means of helping wound healing and other conditions where new blood vessel growth is key, experts say. It also gives insight into unwanted vessel growth, such as that which happens during tumor formation...

 

[Keyhole]

I would guess the gangrene is affected by lack of oxygen to the peripheral capillaries?

Yes, a lack of oxygen, but it is because of a lack of blood getting to the area. Smoking damages both arteries and veins in a variety of ways, and the problems can progress, even after quitting because of scarring of vessels. There is maybe an hour or so after each cigarette in which peripheral blood flow is reduced by about 50% because of arterial muscle layer constriction. Most people can get by with 50% less blood. Someone with poor perfusion anyway can get into some real trouble.
I think there is much greater risk for this with some people. How to identify these people early, I don't know. Other people seem to do ok with heavy smoking throughout life.

I would like to see the source for this and any evidence for the claim that smoking causes a lack of oxygen? In addition to the article Gaby posted, there is also this:

The effect of cigarette smoking on hemoglobin levels and anemia screening.

The relationships among cigarette smoking, hemoglobin concentration, and carboxyhemoglobin concentration were examined using data from the Second National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Among women, smokers had a mean (+/- SE) hemoglobin level of 137 +/- 0.4 g/L, significantly higher than the mean hemoglobin level of 133 +/- 0.5 g/L for never-smokers. Among men, the mean hemoglobin levels for smokers and never-smokers were 156 +/- 0.4 and 152 +/- 0.5 g/L, respectively. No significant difference in mean hemoglobin was noted between ex-smokers and never-smokers. Mean hemoglobin levels and carboxyhemoglobin levels increased progressively with the number of cigarettes consumed per day. Cigarette smoking seems to cause a generalized upward shift of the hemoglobin distribution curve, which reduces the utility of hemoglobin level to detect anemia. Among women of comparable socioeconomic status, the prevalence of anemia was 4.8% +/- 0.6% among smokers, compared with 8.5% +/- 1.2% among never-smokers. This study suggests that minimum hemoglobin cutoff values should be adjusted for smokers to compensate for the masking effect of smoking on the detection of anemia.

Link:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2395196

I'm no expert, but I would imagine that increased levels of hemoglobin in the blood would lead to less hypoxia. We are told so many lies about smoking that it is really quite important to scrap all of the information and go back to basics. The research shows that smoking can increase blood vessell growth (along with CO effects) and increase hemoglobin levels.

 

[Yupo]

I'm no expert, but I would imagine that increased levels of hemoglobin in the blood would lead to less hypoxia.

I never said that the blood was less oxygenated. I said that there was reduced blood supply.

 

[Yupo]

Computational modelling of atherosclerosis
Brief Bioinform September 22, 2015 0: bbv081v1-bbv081
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Retinal Blood Flow and Vascular Reactivity in Chronic Smokers
IOVS July 1, 2014 55: 4266-4276
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Hypothesis: Cadmium Explains, in Part, Why Smoking Increases the Risk of Cardiovascular Disease
J CARDIOVASC PHARMACOL THER November 1, 2013 18: 550-554
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Smoking and Hemorrhagic Stroke Mortality in a Prospective Cohort Study of Older Chinese
Stroke August 1, 2013 44: 2144-2149
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Association of Smoking With Phenotype at Diagnosis and Vascular Interventions in Patients With Renal Artery Fibromuscular Dysplasia
Hypertension June 1, 2013 61: 1227-1232
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Health Behaviors Predict Higher Interleukin-6 Levels among Patients Newly Diagnosed with Head and Neck Squamous Cell Carcinoma
Cancer Epidemiol. Biomarkers Prev. March 1, 2013 22: 374-381
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Smoking Cessation 1 Year Poststroke and Damage to the Insular Cortex
Stroke January 1, 2012 43: 131-136
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Chronic cigarette smoking causes hypertension, increased oxidative stress, impaired NO bioavailability, endothelial dysfunction, and cardiac remodeling in mice
Am. J. Physiol. Heart Circ. Physiol. January 1, 2011 300: H388-H396
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Longitudinal Tracking of Left Ventricular Mass Over the Adult Life Course: Clinical Correlates of Short- and Long-Term Change in the Framingham Offspring Study
Circulation June 23, 2009 119: 3085-3092
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Decreased Aortic Elasticity in Healthy 11-Year-Old Children Exposed to Tobacco Smoke
Pediatrics February 1, 2009 123: e267-e273
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Exposure to Passive Smoking: A Test to Predict Endothelial Dysfunction and Atherosclerotic Lesions
ANGIOLOGY May 1, 2008 59: 220-223
AbstractFull Text (PDF)

Role of Oxidants and Antioxidants in Atherosclerosis: Results of In Vitro and In Vivo Investigations
J CARDIOVASC PHARMACOL THER December 1, 2007 12: 265-282
AbstractFull Text (PDF)

Alterations of NOS, arginase, and DDAH protein expression in rabbit cavernous tissue after administration of cigarette smoke extract
Am. J. Physiol. Regul. Integr. Comp. Physiol. November 1, 2007 293: R2081-R2089
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Direct Effects of Nicotine on Contractility of the Uterine Artery in Pregnancy
J. Pharmacol. Exp. Ther. July 1, 2007 322: 180-185
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Fetal and Neonatal Nicotine Exposure Differentially Regulates Vascular Contractility in Adult Male and Female Offspring
J. Pharmacol. Exp. Ther. February 1, 2007 320: 654-661
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Smoking-Induced Monocyte Dysfunction Is Reversed by Vitamin C Supplementation In Vivo
Arterioscler. Thromb. Vasc. Bio. January 1, 2007 27: 120-126
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Association of Hypoadiponectinemia With Smoking Habit in Men
Hypertension June 1, 2005 45: 1094-1100
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Smoking Increases Inflammation and Metalloproteinase Expression in Human Carotid Atherosclerotic Plaques
J CARDIOVASC PHARMACOL THER October 1, 2004 9: 291-298
AbstractFull Text (PDF)

Effect of Exposure to Cigarette Smoke on Carotid Artery Intimal Thickening: The Role of Inducible NO Synthase
Arterioscler. Thromb. Vasc. Bio. September 1, 2004 24: 1652-1658
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Is smokeless tobacco a risk factor for coronary heart disease? A systematic review of epidemiological studies
European Journal of Preventive Cardiology April 1, 2004 11: 101-112
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Fibrinogen: biochemistry, epidemiology and determinants
QJM October 1, 2003 96: 711-729
Full TextFull Text (PDF)

Influence of Smoking on Predictors of Vascular Disease
ANGIOLOGY September 1, 2003 54: 507-530
AbstractFull Text (PDF)

Nicotine Strongly Activates Dendritic Cell-Mediated Adaptive Immunity: Potential Role for Progression of Atherosclerotic Lesions
Circulation February 4, 2003 107: 604-611
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Effect of Smoking on Arterial Stiffness and Pulse Pressure Amplification
Hypertension January 1, 2003 41: 183-187
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Dietary Supplementation with Aged Garlic Extract Reduces Plasma and Urine Concentrations of 8-Iso-Prostaglandin F2{alpha} in Smoking and Nonsmoking Men and Women
J. Nutr. February 1, 2002 132: 168-171
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

Cardiovascular effects of transdermal nicotine in mildly hypertensive smokers
Am J Hypertens July 1, 2001 14: 610-614
AbstractFull TextFull Text (PDF)

 

[Yupo]

What would be your source for this information about blood flow? I have heard this stuff before but I have never been able to find any sound science to back it up.

I am interested to learn your definition of sound science. Have you looked hard for information? Jeez, it is everywhere!

This is all stuff I learned during my professional training, which was a long time ago I admit. The book I used was Juergens: Peripheral Vascular Diseases, 5th edition. But I have seen the problems over many years in my practice.
The above information (that list of articles) was obtained with a simple search.
I would caution people to be cautious in dismissing any and all information, just because it comes from mainstream medicine.

As I said, this is likely a complicated issue, perhaps with more factors involved than simple tobacco/smoking exposure. Clearly, some are at higher risk for such problems. I don't know anyone that questions the deleterious effects of tobacco use on vascularity.

 

[Yupo]

Nicotine may not be all bad: A study found it stimulated new blood vessel growth in mice by actively signaling their bone marrow to release vessel-forming adult stem cells.

This would be consistent with healing 'miracles' I have seen following tobacco harvest-related injuries. Farmer used to chew up some leaf and pack the mush into wounds before binding them. Astonishing how fast was the healing. It was a dangerous job.

 

[Keyhole]

Yupo, have you read these studies in full?

Chronic cigarette smoking causes hypertension, increased oxidative stress, impaired NO bioavailability, endothelial dysfunction, and cardiac remodeling in mice

"The C57Bl/6J mouse strain, which is widely used in a number of transgenic models, has been reported to be susceptible to CS exposure-induced lung disease, body weight (BW) changes, and oxidative stress end points (18, 20, 58). Therefore, in view of its wide use in cardiovascular studies and genetic models, we chose to use the C57Bl/6J mouse strain for our experiments. "

Here, the author clearly states that this breed of mice is already susceptible to those ailments. This is the case with most of the animal studies that you actually look into... the research is mainly done on animals that have been bred to display those pathologies.

"Mice were exposed to whole body mainstream CS generated from 3R4F research cigarettes (9.4 mg tar/0.726 mg nicotine, University of Kentucky) by the SCIREQ “InExpose” smoking system (SCIREQ, Montreal, QB, Canada) using the following standard parameters (ISO 1991): one 35-ml puff of 2-s duration followed by 58 s of fresh air at a rate of 6 ml/s. The CS was directed in the exposure chamber (5-liter volume) at a smoke-to-air ratio of 1:10. Our CS exposure protocol gave a concentration of 200 mg/m3 of total particulate matter (TPM) of air, and this TPM level was within the reported range previously used in mice (15, 58). Mice were exposed to CS for 48 min/day, 5 days/wk, for 16 or 32 consecutive weeks and were killed 24 h after the last CS exposure."

Mice were exposed to 48 minutes of smoke a day, while in a smoke chamber. If i'm honest, I don't think I even know any chain-smokers who are subject to that amount of smoke (non-stop) for a full 48 minutes of everyday. Then scale it down in size... we are speaking about mice. Mice are a small fraction of the size of the human body. If these studies were genuine, they would have atleast limited the amount of tobacco smoke and controlled for the proportion of smoke-to-lung capacity ratio. This here is a decent example of junk science.

 

[Yupo]

No, I did not read the studies. I just posted the results of a quick search.

I accept that I might be brainwashed from school on the subject. Maybe it is just a coincidence that these issues are seen much more frequently in smokers. I don't think so, but I will endeavor to keep my mind open. FWIW, I also see certain problems more frequently in people that quit smoking. This is anecdotal stuff, but observed by many people. I have not seen studies on such subjects, and I probably won't, because it appears that the PTB want people to stop smoking.
If you want to read human studies on fracture and wound healing, surgical complication rates, I can post some of those.

I can tell you that quite a few (but not all) surgeons refuse elective and cosmetic work on smokers because of healing times and other complications.

 

[flashgordonv]

What would be your source for this information about blood flow? I have heard this stuff before but I have never been able to find any sound science to back it up.

I am interested to learn your definition of sound science. Have you looked hard for information? Jeez, it is everywhere!

This is all stuff I learned during my professional training, which was a long time ago I admit. The book I used was Juergens: Peripheral Vascular Diseases, 5th edition. But I have seen the problems over many years in my practice.
The above information (that list of articles) was obtained with a simple search.
I would caution people to be cautious in dismissing any and all information, just because it comes from mainstream medicine.

As I said, this is likely a complicated issue, perhaps with more factors involved than simple tobacco/smoking exposure. Clearly, some are at higher risk for such problems. I don't know anyone that questions the deleterious effects of tobacco use on vascularity.

Yes, I have done extensive research on the smoking subject, and unlike many people I actually READ the research papers, and not just the abstracts. As the Tobacco Control people themselves admit, almost all of the research condemning tobacco smoking is epidemiological. This article sums up the issues with epidemiology and junk science.

https://www.sott.net/article/315356-The-epidemic-of-junk-science-in-tobacco-smoking-research

 

[Keyhole]

No, I did not read the studies. I just posted the results of a quick search.

I accept that I might be brainwashed from school on the subject. Maybe it is just a coincidence that these issues are seen much more frequently in smokers. I don't think so, but I will endeavor to keep my mind open. FWIW, I also see certain problems more frequently in people that quit smoking. This is anecdotal stuff, but observed by many people. I have not seen studies on such subjects, and I probably won't, because it appears that the PTB want people to stop smoking.
If you want to read human studies on fracture and wound healing, surgical complication rates, I can post some of those.

I can tell you that quite a few (but not all) surgeons refuse elective and cosmetic work on smokers because of healing times and other complications.

What is important to consider is that smokers are often less health-conscious than non-smokers. People are told that smoking is unhealthy, and the majority of people who smoke do so despite believing this to be true. This would imply that those smokers are also more likely to behave in other ways that are not conducive to proper health - such as eating junk food and high processed sugar-laden diets, drinking alcohol, and living sedentary lifestyles. I can appreciate that the dogma concerning tobacco has been deeply ingrained into peoples minds usually from a very early age, but I can imagine that as a practising health professional, you have probably been subject to much stricter forms of indoctrination on the subject. Again, considering the context of the work that is done here on the forum, we should continue to seek to gain a more objective perspective of every aspect of reality. Therefore I would recommend that you delve into a bit more of the research, perhaps analyse the studies in depth, and come to your own conclusions.

In addition to Flashgordonv's articles, I have compiled some scientific data on the health benefits and posted it in an article a few pages back. The data can be found in this post.

 

[Yupo]

Again, considering the context of the work that is done here on the forum, we should continue to seek to gain a more objective perspective of every aspect of reality.

Agreed. There is an awful lot of black and white thinking on the subject.

 

[StuartSchmidtke]

100 X 100 percentage smocking is bad..cause you the harm. give it up..

 

[luc]

100 X 100 percentage smocking is bad..cause you the harm. give it up..

Hi StuartSchmidt​ke,

Maybe you could tell us a little more as to why you think smoking is bad? Of course, you can have your own view about the topic, but this forum is not about stating opinions, but coming to conclusions based on convincing data, in other words: research. If you read this whole thread, you will find a lot of research in it! ;)

 

[Cosmos]

100 X 100 percentage smocking is bad..cause you the harm. give it up..

Hi StuartSchmidt​ke,

Maybe you could tell us a little more as to why you think smoking is bad? Of course, you can have your own view about the topic, but this forum is not about stating opinions, but coming to conclusions based on convincing data, in other words: research. If you read this whole thread, you will find a lot of research in it! ;)

You can also listen to those two recent podcasts from SOTT:

-The Health & Wellness Show: The Truth about Tobacco and the Benefits of Nicotine
-The Health & Wellness Show: The Truth about Tobacco and the Benefits of Nicotine - Part 2

 

[Yupo]

There are a few simple tests anyone can do observe effect of smoking tobacco on their personal peripheral circulation. Get comfortable some morning about 6-8 hours after your last cigarette from the day before.
It may be that some have such adverse effects while others do not. Make sure the room temperature is reasonable and stable, because environmental temperature can affect this stuff.

1. Get comfortable some morning about 6-8 hours after your last cigarette from the day before. Put your feet in front of a mirror in good light so you can observe the color of the toe tips/pulp. Nail beds are another good site to observe. Take a photo for objectivity. Smoke a cigarette. After 10 minutes, observe the skin color and photograph it for comparison.
Normally, caucasian skin will be pink. Darker skins might be a tawny/ruby color, normally in these areas.
If the skin in the area is more blue or more pale/yellowish, it is because there is less blood there than before.
Darker skins might go from ruby to more gray.

2. Get comfortable some morning about 6-8 hours after your last cigarette from the day before. Use a thermometer to measure the skin temperature of your toes. Have a cigarette. Repeat the temperature measurement. Did it drop? To be fair, there are a variety of reasons other than vascularity that skin temperature can change.

3. Get comfortable some morning about 6-8 hours after your last cigarette from the day before. Press a toe tip firmly enough to push out the blood. Then release the pressure/remove the finger. The toe tip or pulp should be very pale, very briefly, followed by refilling with blood that returns the color. Normally, it should happen from near instantly, up to a full second delay. Try it again 10 minutes after your cigarette. Is there a delay in your blood refill time?

4. 6-8 hours after your last cigarette from the day before, get some hard leg exercise to the point of muscle fatigue/burning/cramping. Lunges, chairs, squats, exercises like that are appropriate for this test. Measure by counting time with a stopwatch or counting repetitions. Give yourself plenty of time to rest, at least an hour. About 10 minutes after a cigarette, repeat the test, endeavoring to maintain the same rate of activity. Did your muscles fatigue in less time or fewer repetitions?

The conventional wisdom is that these are common effects of tobacco use. I know they happen in some people and I only see the people with problems. I am curious to learn if some of you are unaffected.