Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori

[Eboard10]

Eboard10,

You'll be glad to know the refrigerator was cleared and restocked. I've had some good clean food the last few days. I'll give you some idea of diet before all this:

Great to hear about your progress Leland and happy to know that you are taking steps to remove those toxic foods from your plate. Changing the diet had by far the biggest impact on my health, though it was a process that took a couple of years before I could really witness all the benefits.

Getting rid of the "bad dinners" would definitely help a lot, and if you still have a hard time letting go of those sweet treats, you can have a look at the Recipes section which has some great desserts posted by forum members for you to try out, the Keto Cheesecake being a favourite of some around here. ;)

 

[Laura]

Well, if you read the "autoimmune diseases caused by an infection thread" and how I undertook to cure my rheumatoid arthritis with the full bore antibiotic protocol for six months... yikes. First day I thought I was gonna die and I'm not exaggerating. I had the most massive herx reaction I've ever heard of. And I kept having them with every round for about 4 months of self torture. And then, finally, they stopped. I continued for the full six months, but I tell ya, I dreaded the three days a week of heavy duty stuff.

 

[Leland]

Thanks Eboard10. I will definitely check out the Keto Cheesecake.

Lunch seems a little challenging in the sense of having to cook, and then do it again for dinner. I'll browse the recipes and if you have any suggestions/favorites that are less time consuming would love to hear them.

 

[Leland]

Well, if you read the "autoimmune diseases caused by an infection thread" and how I undertook to cure my rheumatoid arthritis with the full bore antibiotic protocol for six months... yikes. First day I thought I was gonna die and I'm not exaggerating. I had the most massive herx reaction I've ever heard of. And I kept having them with every round for about 4 months of self torture. And then, finally, they stopped. I continued for the full six months, but I tell ya, I dreaded the three days a week of heavy duty stuff.

Well there is the gracious host! (I'm giddy, it's, uh, the iodine )

I have haphazardly read some here and there, only intending to maybe do it in the future. I'll be giving it the attention it deserves.

Not the first time I have learned something the hard way.

With a back thing at least I knew what was going on, and had some idea of what to do.

This was totally new, I surely glossed over some stuff reading too quickly and didn't appreciate how strong it could be. Feeling that bad physically, and then your mind goes wild, I had visions of going to the ER, trying to explain the iodine, and the robodocs pumping me full of this, or yanking that out. It was not a good place.

So glad to be here, and on the mend thanks to expert advice. Thanks for relating your experience.

 

[Leland]

A little update. Overall continued improving. A few issues cropped up so I made some adjustments.

Some minor pain/gurgling in the kidney and pancreas areas so I have added pancreatin with meals, and liquid grapefruit seed extract, along with kidney/bladder powder (d-mannose, uva-ursi, blueberry, cranberry, dadelion, goldenrod, goldenseal and parsely). I take these two as additional hydration and between the chlorella/charcoal. Given everything has been working overtime it seemed a good addition to just the liver/gallbladder supplements. Just started these today but have noticed some improvement already.

I noticed after breakfasts of boiled egg, bacon, yogurt, and a dinner last night with some beef, an ammonia taste/breath. Best I can figure, this is due to too few carbs (only from sweet potato, carrots, zuchinni) causing issues with protein being processed. I have had a drastic reduction in carbs in the last 5 days. After breakfast I ate some pretzel chips and it soon reduced the symptoms.

Was still having some issues being hyper and although physically very tired, not able to sleep as much as I should and lots of brain fog. I added carbs (brown rice) at lunch. Felt very good, and not in the ususal carb craving way. I was able to take an hour nap after that, which previously wasn't able to do. Had some more carbs with dinner.

Located some reduced glutathione lozenges you dissolve on empty stomach, and some colostrum with lactoferrin. Figure those should give everything a boost.

Would there be any issues before bed dissolving the glutathione, and then taking coq10 and alpha lipoic capsules? Seems like it would be a good combo to work overnight.

Still having some sinus yuck-but-not-full-blown-sick issues. It is probably from the cedar, which has been as high as the meter reads the last two weeks. One interesting thing about the iodine is I wasn't sneezing 30 times a day like I usually am Dec-March, and only felt the yuck on the highest reading days. Otherwise, wasn't having the symptoms of "Cedar Fever" which had led me to dread this time of year.

Menu is still limited, but I notice I don't "need" as much variety. Also, realizing I was very stuck with you can only eat this type food at x hour of the day. Liberating!

 

[Leland]

Re: Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori (Correction -- Candida)

Turns out this was not h pylori at all, but Candida. Candida gone wild.

After the antiobiotics finished my stomach was tenuously "ok," I think mostly due to the supplements I was taking, not the antibiotics. I had been doing more reading on all this and was suspecting candida because I had some of the UTI and other symptoms (parched lips, cracked in corners, dandruff/rash, etc.) So I added some oil of oregano capsules to the caprylic/lauric acid, along with some enteric coated probiotics first thing in the morning. The oil of oregano really seemed to help within a day, along with no antibiotics.

Reading about the ammonia issue I found pantethine and molybdenum would help if this was from aldehydes due to candida. So I got some, and the ammonia was resolved within 24 hours.

Went back to the doctor and, after some haggling ("Men don't usually get candida."), it was agreed I could have a course of diflucan, if I took metronizadole with it...? (Beats me, but thanks for completing the autoimmune regimen. It is set aside until GI is completely healed up.)

Took the first dose late at night, and had substantial relief by the next morning, coupled with die off symptoms for the next ten days.

I still have some die off itching in the evening (curiously a lot of the itching was in spots where I had "fibro" pain which has since been eliminated in many spots, and drastically reduced in the remaining).

Have also tested with betaine and my stomach acid is too low, not high as with an ulcer.

It just all makes a lot more sense. I knew I had mercury fillings at one time that were taken out years ago, but with no special precautions. The tummy stuff started out mild when I began the iodine capsules (saturating the tissues and kicking up metals). Then it got progressively worse and by the time I was up to two capsules, the full-bore gastritis (candida punching through my gut) began. The symptoms of GERD/candida overlap, and so do low and high stomach HCL. Was taking salt water, but really needed chlorella/charcoal in addition.

My color is back, along with 10 pounds I lost during that ordeal. A thin layer of belly fat that would not go away no matter what exercise is gone. Tummy/digestion has not felt this great since I don't know when.

Reading the adrenal fatigue thread I'm pretty sure I had it for years, at least to some degree (previously diagnosed as back/leg pain or "sacroiliitis"), before all this herx/candida stuff. But that threw it into overdrive, so I am treating for that with some supplements, continued caffeine ban, extra blessed salt water, getting some light exercise, etc.

Three or four nights of the week I can go to bed at normal hour (11:00) and sleep through. The other nights I literally fall asleep with lights on around 8:00 - 9:00, but then wide awake ~2:00 a.m. Sometimes can get back to sleep, sometimes not. I understand this just may take a while and normalize.

Hopefully this can be instructive to some others.

Crib note version: If your body/diet are not clean do take some chlorella and/or activated charcoal after beginning iodine (some of the other supplements probably a good idea too), and do not underestimate the possible metal and/or candida elimination symptoms. Up the iodine slowly.

And, change your diet anyways. Didn't realize how lousy I felt eating all that junk, until I stopped it.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori (Correction -- Candida)

Glad to hear that you're feeling better Leland! :)

("Men don't usually get candida.")

Doctors are generally quite clueless unfortunately. Men can certainly get candida and I suspect even other types of fungal overgrowths.

Three or four nights of the week I can go to bed at normal hour (11:00) and sleep through. The other nights I literally fall asleep with lights on around 8:00 - 9:00, but then wide awake ~2:00 a.m. Sometimes can get back to sleep, sometimes not. I understand this just may take a while and normalize.

That could be indicative of poor liver function, so adding some Milk Thistle for liver support might help.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori (Correction -- Candida)

The antibiotic protocol is gruesome enough, it targets quite a lot. Usually it is done with nystatin or any anti-fungal as it really favors yeast overgrowth. Some people get a white tongue from candida within a few days of taking antibiotics.

You targeted quite a lot in a short period of time. Hope you had more time for a holistic approach now!

 

[Leland]

Re: Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori (Correction -- Candida)

Glad to hear that you're feeling better Leland! :)

("Men don't usually get candida.")

Doctors are generally quite clueless unfortunately. Men can certainly get candida and I suspect even other types of fungal overgrowths.

Thanks Foxx. Well you have to tread very carefully because some you can trigger a really bad reaction (pardon the pun) if you are "self-diagnosing" or "telling them what to do."

My first thought when metronizadole was mentioned was, "Great, let's undo all the progress I've made with my gut." Thankfully, the smarter half of my brain kicked in and advised to do an end run around with, "Well, can I take diflucan with metronizadole?" I already knew the answer and doc seemed pleased to do so (two scripts have gotta be better than one!)

Three or four nights of the week I can go to bed at normal hour (11:00) and sleep through. The other nights I literally fall asleep with lights on around 8:00 - 9:00, but then wide awake ~2:00 a.m. Sometimes can get back to sleep, sometimes not. I understand this just may take a while and normalize.

That could be indicative of poor liver function, so adding some Milk Thistle for liver support might help.

One, of the many, supplements I'm taking 3x day is a liver support/detox with the following:

Milk Thistle 300 mg with minimum 80% silymarin
Artichoke/Beet /Bladderwack/Raspberry/Pancreatin 170 mg
Setria Reduced L-Glutathione 100 mg
NAC 100 mg
Grapeseed 100 mg
Dandelion 100 mg
L-Carnitine 50 mg
Scute 50 mg
Schisandra 50 mg
Berberry 30 mg
Turmeric 30 mg
L-Methione 20 mg

I've also added every two or three days, one serving of juice made from beet, kale, carrot, celery, ginger, lemon, lime, cucumber, and a little green apple.

I'm not sure what else to do regarding the liver but I'll certainly try anything else you might advise.

 

[Leland]

Re: Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori (Correction -- Candida)

The antibiotic protocol is gruesome enough, it targets quite a lot. Usually it is done with nystatin or any anti-fungal as it really favors yeast overgrowth. Some people get a white tongue from candida within a few days of taking antibiotics.

You targeted quite a lot in a short period of time. Hope you had more time for a holistic approach now!

Gaby I put the metronizadole aside to take later. Doc was only going to give me that for Candida (????) until I asked about taking diflucan with the metronizadole. The diflucan dose was (1) 150 mg, and then another 150 mg 72 hours later. I've had a slight concern that maybe this wasn't a strong/long enough course? It definitely helped, but today is a good example of what is currently going on, seven days since the last diflucan dose:

Woke up this morning with mild lymph swelling, and sinus-like stuff. Some nasal discharge, and more phlegm. Nothing horrible, just irritating. Tongue is white with a few mild ulcerations, lips parched, corners of mouth cracked, and mild tinnitis. Compared to the previous two days where I didn't have any of that. This cycle of a couple of good days, interspersed with a bad day or two has gone on for about ~10 days.

On the holistic side , I continue (and really enjoying) the diet, along with lots of blessed salt water, chlorella/spirulina, caprylic acid/lauric acid, garlic, oregano oil caps, colostrum, ribose, inulin, probiotics, liver support, iodine, cofactors, boron, Vits A, E, C, magnesium/potassium asportates, etc. Tummy/GI feels great, it's just with those symptoms every few days I still feel like candida is still lingering to a larger degree than it should (I know it will never be completely eradicated, just kept in check).

I don't have an issue taking the metronizadole, just thought it would be best to continue healing GI a while longer, before starting something that could throw it out of balance again. I found a little info on the web supporting metronizadole use for candida, but a lot more indicating it could make it worse, especially with symptoms like today. Am I correct with that?

I'm used to in the past with a sinus infection/sore throat taking the antibiotics and being back to normal within 72 hours or so, so am I just being impatient with this candida?

 

[Gaby]

Re: Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori (Correction -- Candida)

The diflucan dose was (1) 150 mg, and then another 150 mg 72 hours later.

For systemic candidiasis, and this is a protocol quoted in The Yeast Connection by William Crook, a better dose would be:

- 400mg per day for 2 to 6 months. This is when candida is detected in your blood.

If the candida is on your mouth, sinuses and gut in general and it started after the antibiotics, you could do the tiny dose of diflucan, but adding nystatin three times per day (around 500,000 UI each time) for at least two weeks. Treatment should continue for 48 hours AFTER candida lesions or signs disappear.

For gut flora imbalances after antibiotics, the following is a must: Saccharomyces boulardii. It helps if it has other species added, i.e lactobacilli.

There are natural remedies for candida as well, like Pau D'Arco (3 tablets three times per day). You can also get the diflucan (fluconazol) and nystatin from fludan.com. It is pricey though.

For the sinuses, there is nothing like sniffing a pinch of nystatin powder into your nostrils. It will clear up the candida and the brain fog as well.

I would definitely wait on the metro until you get a hold of your gut flora. I want to repeat myself a couple of metro cycles, but I'm not planning on doing it any time soon. One step at a time.

I had antibiotic-related diarrhea and some issues with yeast overgrowth when I did my antibiotics. The diarrhea cleared up with saccharomyces boulardii and the rest was aided by nystatin. FWIW.

Your holistic plan is sounding good :)

 

[Foxx]

Re: Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori (Correction -- Candida)

One, of the many, supplements I'm taking 3x day is a liver support/detox with the following:

Milk Thistle 300 mg with minimum 80% silymarin
Artichoke/Beet /Bladderwack/Raspberry/Pancreatin 170 mg
Setria Reduced L-Glutathione 100 mg
NAC 100 mg
Grapeseed 100 mg
Dandelion 100 mg
L-Carnitine 50 mg
Scute 50 mg
Schisandra 50 mg
Berberry 30 mg
Turmeric 30 mg
L-Methione 20 mg

I'd check the serving size--those numbers sound like they're for more than one capsule. If that's the case, it may be worth upping the dosage. That supplement does have pretty much all the angles covered, though.

This might be getting into the variance of supplement quality that I've experienced after having tried many, many, many, many different supplements (types, brands, etc) over the years. I think there's a fairly large range of quality for milk thistle supplements, so it may also be worth trying a different one (maybe a milk thistle or liver support tincture would work better than the capsule for various reasons). At the same time, it may be the case that, since you've made a lot of changes and the process has had some challenges during the process, that that's just part of the detox process and there isn't much more that can be done to support the process and as the liver keeps detoxing, the symptoms will reduce over time.

Regarding the mold/candida, Iodine would work for that, in sufficient quantities, though that could mobilize stored heavy metals so it's probably good to exercise some caution there. An anti-fungal dosage of iodine may be up to 200mg per day.

An alternative that I had great success with was taking neem tablets, which won't mobilize heavy metals. I used this brand:

http://www.amazon.com/Himalaya-Organic-Caplets-Healthy-600mg/dp/B001GCTTPS/

and think 2 tablets 2-3 times a day would probably do the trick.

I seriously doubt that the dosage of diflucan was enough to eliminate any kind of significant fungal overgrowth, so if you do have mold, I'd bet that that didn't eliminate it. Having dealt with mold myself (two separate overgrowths--digestive and systemic) and gotten rid of it, I'd recommend neem or Iodine over anything else. The primary reason being that though my own experience I've verified that it's possible to eliminate a digestive overgrowth of mold, while still having a systemic one. Since I used neem to eliminate the systemic one, it's action appears not to be restricted to the digestive tract, so it should work on both digestive and systemic mold overgrowths, as should Iodine for the same reason. In addition, both neem and iodine are broad-spectrum anti-pathogens, so anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-parasitic--so if you have any other types of infections, either should take care of most or all of them (though I suspect iodine can kill a wider array of pathogens and I'm not sure that neem is a very effective anti-viral).

Either neem or iodine would probably take a month or two to eliminate an overgrowth. Symptoms may stop before before that (potentially well before), but fungal overgrowths can be very persistent, so it'd probably be best to stick with a month or two to be thorough, possibly even longer.

Based on your experience so far, I personally would probably go with neem over iodine to avoid a heavy metal detox with the iodine for now and work on that later or more gradually (no reason to stop doing the metal detoxing that you're doing now with the Chlorella). I'd probably even wait somewhere between 1-4 weeks to make sure that you're body's up to the challenge of eliminating mold and any other pathogens. You've got a lot on your plate, so you don't want to over do it :)

A word of caution: when I used neem to get rid of a long standing systemic fungal overgrowth (this was outside of the digestive tract), I got very, very depressed, so that could be a possible outcome. If that happens, just remember that you're battling the mold and that the feelings will pass, and you'll be stronger on the other side.

 

[Laura]

Might want to read what I just posted in the Lithium thread. Maybe something there useful:
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,12314.msg639858.html#msg639858

 

[Leland]

Re: Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori (Correction -- Candida)

The diflucan dose was (1) 150 mg, and then another 150 mg 72 hours later.

For systemic candidiasis, and this is a protocol quoted in The Yeast Connection by William Crook, a better dose would be:

- 400mg per day for 2 to 6 months. This is when candida is detected in your blood.

I have read of courses that long. I am really hoping to avoid that. I had to take a few hours drive today and had some down time to reflect on what happened, the progress made, and your previous suggestion about the holistic.

It was the holistic which started healing my gut, even while on the antibiotics, and it really accelerated once they were finished. I've read stories here and other sites of it taking three, six, nine months, even longer, to get GI in the shape mine is now, after just a few weeks.

In between accidents, and aside from this mishap, I'm pretty healthy (relatively speaking with the past diet), so I think this was candida which just got completely out of control because I wasn't getting mercury out for two or three months! The h pylori finger-stick blood test just tested whether I had ever been exposed to it. As I understand it, half the world would test positive for that. Not that you couldn't get it in the U.S., but I've also lived in several other countries, and traveled to more, getting sick (amoeba stuff) on a few occasions. No surprise I had those antibodies. I definitely do not have an ulcer though.

I am taking the Saccharomyces boulardii, and another (non enteric) probiotic in the evenings, which contains:

ISS Bif™ Bifidobacterium lactis (SD-5219), Lactobacillus acidophilus (SD-5221), Bifidobacterium lactis (SD-5674), RAW Whole Food Probiotic Blend: Bulgarian Yogurt (milk) Concentrate, Eastern European Wild Kefir Culture containing Bifidobacterium lactis, Bifidobacterium longum, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus fermentum, Lactobacillus helveticus, Lactobacillus kefiranofaciens, Lactobacillus kefirgranum, Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Lactococcus lactis, Lactococcus cremoris, Streptococcus thermophilus, Lactobacillus kefir, Lactobacillus parakefir, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactococcus lactis biovar diacetylactis, Leuconostoc lactis, Leuconostoc mesenteroides, Leuconostoc cremoris, Leuconostoc dextranicum, Kluyveromyces marxianus, Brettanomyces anomalus, Debaryomyces hansenii, Saccharomyces unisporus, Saccharomyces turicensis, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Saccharomyces exiguus, Torulaspora delbrueckii

I also take an enteric coated (similar to above, but 20 strains) first thing in the morning, on empty stomach, wait about 15 minutes, and then take salt water.

Even if erratic at times, I am sleeping comfortably, eating/digesting very well, and otherwise doing so much better, that I'm going to relax and enjoy that progress, and continue with the holistic for a few weeks more, with some of the fine tuning you'll have recommended.

If that doesn't work, I'll take up other measures you have indicated, whether from the site or locating a professional here who is experienced with this. I did find a Naturopath not as far away as I feared, and maybe she works with an M.D./D.O. when its necessary? They can probably tell me that over the phone, so I'll call tomorrow and find out in case its needed.

I have been drinking Pau D'Arco tea, but I now have the tablets to add to the routine. There is also undecylenic acid. If the testimonies are anything to go by, people swear the stuff works as well as any prescription (although I think it may be referring more to the gut vs. systemic). It is definitely more "exotic" and can only be had by ordering. I've read many times it's advisable to alternate these treatments so I'll begin that once I have them all.

I'm glad you like the plan. I still have concerns about systemic, but I think it's okay, as long as it doesn't significantly worsen, to stick with what has worked best so far and see where it leads. Thanks for keeping up with my "saga" here, and for your suggestions and the in-case-we-have-to-go-there information. I will update as developments warrant.

 

[Leland]

Re: Some Overwhelming Issues Iodine/H Pylori (Correction -- Candida)

The primary reason being that though my own experience I've verified that it's possible to eliminate a digestive overgrowth of mold, while still having a systemic one.

This was my concern. As I indicated to Gaby, I'm going to temper it and see what happens continuing with what I'm doing and the additions suggested, before going on a long(er) course of prescriptions.

It's reassuring to know the Neem worked for you. I was able to get some locally, probably not as clean as the one you indicated. 475 mg Neem, gelatin capsule, cellulose, and really-hard-to-avoid, magnesium stearate. But, since we're talking a month or more, I'll get started with it, and order your version to continue.

I'm really thinking along your lines as well as far the challenges during the process, and this is just part of it. I also read a thread you posted on several times regarding the lymphatic system. Everything may be backed up yet, and need some more time to clear.

This really was the toughest/worst "entire body/mind" crisis I've ever been through. No exaggeration, I have truly been scared to lose my live twice. Once, on a 747 which caught on fire, noxious/caustic smoke in the cabin (and now that I mention it, I wonder what goodies I inhaled), emergency landing, slide down the chutes. Quite justified I think. The other was this herx/candida thing!

Speaking of scary, 200 mg iodine...not just yet. I'll stick with the henny-penny 6.25 dose for now, and we'll see how things shake out. I'm really not scared to go up, but I think we both agree better to rest and do that if needed. Otherwise I planning on doing the 12.5 mg for two years, or if I could get up to 50 mg for the three or six months (can't remember which just now) at that dosage.

Got you on the depression. I have a hard time imagining it could be any worse than the depression/anxiety/panic I had three weeks ago, but I'm not going to discount it! At least I'm eating and sleeping, and overall now in better physical shape, so that should help. It also helps to know its a possibility, so the heads up is appreciated!. I'll give the new additions a few days and update.