Some strategies for dealing with psychopaths at work

[AutomatedMan]

Thanks for sharing kalibex, i am glad that things went well in your situation - and could sense the relief and joy as well, when the wicked witch was finally banished!

You are right, not all situations with a psychopathic boss end well, hence its definitely the right move to get out, and look for other opportunities. About HR departments, my view is that most of them act as the "law enforcement" of the upper management of a company. They only take orders and implement; hence if the management is ponerised, the HR department will most likely be ponerised too. It is very unlikely an employee will be able to convince a ponerised HR to take any action against a psychopathic boss.

Thanks Palinurus for the link to Michael BC's post - will definitely read the post.

.

Given my current workplace environment, I feel that this thread came at the best time possible.

The Friday before last, Fred, a hard working colleague resigned because he decided to test the management. We were told to give notice for vacations in April two months prior because we would be supporting a new application's deployment. We were told then that we would have to support an application and work a hand-full of over night and late evening shifts. My ex-coworker decided to submit his request for vacation for the last week of the month and was denied.

Fast forward to the end of April: He chose to attend one day of the 2 day training session for a specific set of software applications that we use. This would have benefited the company, our team and himself. He typically worked 60-70 hour weeks, trained and taught new employees. Additionally, he spoke up to HR about issues he had regarding our department and the treatment of the employees. Instead, while other members of our team gave shorter notice for their vacations that were approved, this senior team member was singled out and prevented from attending training that he paid for out of pocket. When we found out he was let go, the director said he 'resigned' because his 'goals weren't aligned with the organization' (Thoughts of collinearity between souls crossed my mind when he said that! ). Other friends and coworkers found out from him that he was offered the opportunity to resign or be fired. These options were, strategically, void of unemployment benefits. Ultimately, Fred's stack of complaints to HR did nothing to save his case and may have been used against him.

The message was clear, as reiterated by our suspected sociopath leader: "You can suck it up or get another job". It was apparent that dissent is not to be tolerated and HR could be used as a tool to remove you for whatever minor infringement you have committed. This suspicion became more concrete this past Friday when 'someone' went to HR and reported 2 more coworkers for creating 'a culturally insensitive workplace'. Keep in mind that during one of our happy hours, our culturally sensitive crusader said he should get home before he does 'something incriminating' before creepily winking to go to the bathroom. Then, upon returning, reiterated a sexist story involving female ex-coworker who was a stripper on the side. What a white knight!

I was personally told to 'think positively' by this slimy idiot a few months prior. In another incident that would take a full post, he pushed out a coworker because he wouldn't let her off for a planned anniversary, while letting another take of for the same amount of reason and time. From that point on, I covertly warned others that we may be dealing with a sociopath. Everyone else that I work with, including a few in management, seem to have placed a label on his behavior. They haven't, however, taken steps to protect themselves. I used general avoidance, a technique suggested on the forum and by Martha Stoudt's The Psychopath Next Door. I've tried to warn others that anything they say to him can be used against them or other coworkers as fodder and to avoid contact. This situation is exceptionally discouraging since he is at a director position within our department I believe the Gray Rock method may now be the best approach to buy time for my escape.

There may not be a happy ending to this story, unlike kalibex :(. He will have to answer to his management once a large turnover occurs, however, given how HR [dis]functions he may get away with it. This is one bit of evidence of the systemic ponerology. Currently, of the people that I have warned, 6 of the 7 have left for other jobs or are actively seeking. Only one of them believes, that they can 'wait it out' for a year in hope to take training for another position! It's hard but I have to began to practice external consideration for their choices, knowing that this was almost the exact plan that Fred had in hopes of leaving the organization! Given the situation right now (and the situation the C's mentioned in the march transcripts), there may not be a team in a year

 

[Thebull]

Thanks for sharing kalibex, i am glad that things went well in your situation - and could sense the relief and joy as well, when the wicked witch was finally banished!

You are right, not all situations with a psychopathic boss end well, hence its definitely the right move to get out, and look for other opportunities. About HR departments, my view is that most of them act as the "law enforcement" of the upper management of a company. They only take orders and implement; hence if the management is ponerised, the HR department will most likely be ponerised too. It is very unlikely an employee will be able to convince a ponerised HR to take any action against a psychopathic boss.

Thanks Palinurus for the link to Michael BC's post - will definitely read the post.

.

Given my current workplace environment, I feel that this thread came at the best time possible.

The Friday before last, Fred, a hard working colleague resigned because he decided to test the management. We were told to give notice for vacations in April two months prior because we would be supporting a new application's deployment. We were told then that we would have to support an application and work a hand-full of over night and late evening shifts. My ex-coworker decided to submit his request for vacation for the last week of the month and was denied.

Fast forward to the end of April: He chose to attend one day of the 2 day training session for a specific set of software applications that we use. This would have benefited the company, our team and himself. He typically worked 60-70 hour weeks, trained and taught new employees. Additionally, he spoke up to HR about issues he had regarding our department and the treatment of the employees. Instead, while other members of our team gave shorter notice for their vacations that were approved, this senior team member was singled out and prevented from attending training that he paid for out of pocket. When we found out he was let go, the director said he 'resigned' because his 'goals weren't aligned with the organization' (Thoughts of collinearity between souls crossed my mind when he said that! ). Other friends and coworkers found out from him that he was offered the opportunity to resign or be fired. These options were, strategically, void of unemployment benefits. Ultimately, Fred's stack of complaints to HR did nothing to save his case and may have been used against him.

The message was clear, as reiterated by our suspected sociopath leader: "You can suck it up or get another job". It was apparent that dissent is not to be tolerated and HR could be used as a tool to remove you for whatever minor infringement you have committed. This suspicion became more concrete this past Friday when 'someone' went to HR and reported 2 more coworkers for creating 'a culturally insensitive workplace'. Keep in mind that during one of our happy hours, our culturally sensitive crusader said he should get home before he does 'something incriminating' before creepily winking to go to the bathroom. Then, upon returning, reiterated a sexist story involving female ex-coworker who was a stripper on the side. What a white knight!

I was personally told to 'think positively' by this slimy idiot a few months prior. In another incident that would take a full post, he pushed out a coworker because he wouldn't let her off for a planned anniversary, while letting another take of for the same amount of reason and time. From that point on, I covertly warned others that we may be dealing with a sociopath. Everyone else that I work with, including a few in management, seem to have placed a label on his behavior. They haven't, however, taken steps to protect themselves. I used general avoidance, a technique suggested on the forum and by Martha Stoudt's The Psychopath Next Door. I've tried to warn others that anything they say to him can be used against them or other coworkers as fodder and to avoid contact. This situation is exceptionally discouraging since he is at a director position within our department I believe the Gray Rock method may now be the best approach to buy time for my escape.

There may not be a happy ending to this story, unlike kalibex :(. He will have to answer to his management once a large turnover occurs, however, given how HR [dis]functions he may get away with it. This is one bit of evidence of the systemic ponerology. Currently, of the people that I have warned, 6 of the 7 have left for other jobs or are actively seeking. Only one of them believes, that they can 'wait it out' for a year in hope to take training for another position! It's hard but I have to began to practice external consideration for their choices, knowing that this was almost the exact plan that Fred had in hopes of leaving the organization! Given the situation right now (and the situation the C's mentioned in the march transcripts), there may not be a team in a year

A horrible situation for you and your colleagues. Your knowledge has protected you and it would nice if he gets what's coming before you make your escape. Good luck and hope it all works out for you, a massive learning experience that you looked to have handled remarkably well.

 

[kalibex]

[...snipped tale of workplace dysfunction due to director...]

The message was clear, as reiterated by our suspected sociopath leader: "You can suck it up or get another job".

[...snip...]

There may not be a happy ending to this story, unlike kalibex :(. He will have to answer to his management once a large turnover occurs, however, given how HR [dis]functions he may get away with it. This is one bit of evidence of the systemic ponerology.

Might be something as simple as inertia... that it's not (quite) bad enough yet to go to all the effort of dealing with him.

Back before we lost our own wicked witch, I used to (cynically and pessimistically? Or was it realistically?) opine that they (the Admin) would keep her on as long as she wasn't more trouble than she was worth. Thank Source she crossed that line. But if she hadn't annoyed some contractors, I'm not sure there would have been the investigation that uncovered her illegal (by HR standards) shenanigans that were definitely leaving the workplace vulnerable to a future lawsuit. When that happens...funny how suddenly, things start getting dealt with...

 

[Mr.Cyan]

There may not be a happy ending to this story, unlike kalibex :(. He will have to answer to his management once a large turnover occurs, however, given how HR [dis]functions he may get away with it. This is one bit of evidence of the systemic ponerology. Currently, of the people that I have warned, 6 of the 7 have left for other jobs or are actively seeking. Only one of them believes, that they can 'wait it out' for a year in hope to take training for another position! It's hard but I have to began to practice external consideration for their choices, knowing that this was almost the exact plan that Fred had in hopes of leaving the organization! Given the situation right now (and the situation the C's mentioned in the march transcripts), there may not be a team in a year

Hi AutomatedMan, indeed this is not an easy situation for your and your colleagues. As such i am relieved to know that you fully understand the situation;the dynamics involved, in addition to the psychopatic behaviour on display. Personally, i think your plan for an exit strategy while playing the Grey rock is the best for now, but please do have back-up plan when you leave - eg. please have another job/role lined up, as its best not to be left hanging. Please plan for the worst, and the best outcomes, and in that way you are prepared for all eventualities.

Also to comment on your point above, you are right, it is highly likely that HR will do nothing towards him even with the large turnover. From experience, the psychopath will be very adept at making excuses while putting all the blame for the high turnover on other factors, or even blaming the departing colleagues themselves directly. HR will find it difficult to disprove his allegations/excuses - hence most likely nothing will happen. As kalibex mentioned, only when there are liability issues, or if his behaviour affects the profitability of the team, then only will HR take action - otherwise these critters more often than not get away with it...sigh!

I sincerely hope things work well for you in this situation.

 

[AutomatedMan]

Might be something as simple as inertia... that it's not (quite) bad enough yet to go to all the effort of dealing with him.

Back before we lost our own wicked witch, I used to (cynically and pessimistically? Or was it realistically?) opine that they (the Admin) would keep her on as long as she wasn't more trouble than she was worth. Thank Source she crossed that line. But if she hadn't annoyed some contractors, I'm not sure there would have been the investigation that uncovered her illegal (by HR standards) shenanigans that were definitely leaving the workplace vulnerable to a future lawsuit. When that happens...funny how suddenly, things start getting dealt with...

Thank you kalibex! I fear most for my fellow co-workers and their families who rely on them. I do hope there will be reciprocity, but I can't expect it from within the company and am trying to make peace with quelling my vengeance. I must see them as squawking dodo birds as the C's suggested to Laura, however I'm still disgusted and fearful of interaction with them. Our 'dodo' tends to focus on projecting a congenial image to those who make decisions but betrays his actions to his staff. Obviously, building up a rapport with HR will only solidify his good image. I keep hoping for an improvement but the writing has been on the wall for the past few months: It's only going to get worse. People put in 60 hour weeks and get brow beaten for not getting things done. We're starting to encounter a microcosmic "Brain Drain" with some of our most talented team members leaving. I just hope my teammates manage to get out of there before getting fired for some trumped up reason.

Hi AutomatedMan, indeed this is not an easy situation for your and your colleagues. As such i am relieved to know that you fully understand the situation;the dynamics involved, in addition to the psychopatic behaviour on display. Personally, i think your plan for an exit strategy while playing the Grey rock is the best for now, but please do have back-up plan when you leave - eg. please have another job/role lined up, as its best not to be left hanging. Please plan for the worst, and the best outcomes, and in that way you are prepared for all eventualities.

Also to comment on your point above, you are right, it is highly likely that HR will do nothing towards him even with the large turnover. From experience, the psychopath will be very adept at making excuses while putting all the blame for the high turnover on other factors, or even blaming the departing colleagues themselves directly. HR will find it difficult to disprove his allegations/excuses - hence most likely nothing will happen. As kalibex mentioned, only when there are liability issues, or if his behaviour affects the profitability of the team, then only will HR take action - otherwise these critters more often than not get away with it...sigh!

I sincerely hope things work well for you in this situation.

Thank you Mr. Cyan! I am fearful of being the next victim while waiting for one of the below opportunities to come to fruition. It has been a stressful time and I have begun having thought loops about how to combat these things. My girlfriend noticed that I was obsessing over it and she snapped me out of it by telling me I was giving him power over me! Yep, that just shut my mind up :). I have considered warning others to not betray their fellow coworkers, as he has asked to meet with people that have begun leaving. I will have to trust that they will do the right thing. I kept worrying about all the scenarios that could occur but all I have to talk about is something incredibly boring and excuse myself awkwardly (intentionally?) in his presence. I guess it's a blessing in disguise, I now can think of incredibly hilarious mundane things like cleaning a toaster (Get it? we're all on the keto diet!)

As for a lifeline to another workplace, I'm holding out in hopes for an opportunity with a small company I've been working with on the side. If this panes out, I will be working with someone who has been a mentor to me for the past few months and I met at a start-up event in the fall. If this opportunity doesn't pan out, my mentor said he would recommend me for a position in the company he currently works as the company is expanding to the city I currently live and he will be moving here for family reasons. If THAT doesn't work out (I'm just trying to exercise some Murphy's Law here :)), I have been given 2 sets of recruiters to work with and begin the job search from close friends and coworkers. Ideally within a 3 weeks, or worse, within 6 weeks, I hope to be out of there on good standing.

 

[Mr.Cyan]

I am fearful of being the next victim while waiting for one of the below opportunities to come to fruition. It has been a stressful time and I have begun having thought loops about how to combat these things. My girlfriend noticed that I was obsessing over it and she snapped me out of it by telling me I was giving him power over me! Yep, that just shut my mind up :).

Hi AutomatedMan, i can definitely relate to the stress and thought loops as well. Around 2010, when i was facing my first real malevolent workplace psychopath, i too was feeling very emotional, and there were excessive thought loops going through my mind daily, with regards to how to face that critter, and counter all his attacks. There was self importance, ego, reputation, anger all thrown into the mix - my sleep was affected, and i recall it was a very depressing 1 - 2 month period. Luckily at that point in time, coincidentally in the midst of this i was reading the Wave series, Petty Tyrants, then Castaneda, and subsequently Lobaczewski- hence as i was facing this challenge, my knowledge on how to handle the situation improved. Also i had a really good "allies" at work, that helped me, and eventually we managed to contrive a situation where that critter got fired.

Your girlfriends advice is right, you should not indulge in thought loops, as that is definitely giving the predator power over you. In the end it is a state of mind, and this state of mind is greatly enhanced by having in possession the right knowledge. When you know that you are facing a predator, that is running a specific set of behaviours and "programs" you too can then adjust your view, and try to "dance" with them when facing attacks, or planning your exit strategy. A thought i always use to help in situations when the going gets tough with them is " i cried because i had no shoes, until i saw a man with no feet" symbolising, no matter how tough the situation gets, there are always people in more worse situations and we should then adjust our view accordingly to face the unknown. The best way to describe this state of mind of is to be "unflinching" and "unafraid" of the future, and trust that anything the future brings, you will be able to handle it. It is off course easier said than done, and i find that keeping the mind and body fit with all the diet and health knowledge practised in the forum helps. With regards to thought loops, i normally practice simple meditation and breathing techniques before sleeping, and this greatly helps as well focus the mind, and relax it at the same time.

Once again, i hope that things work out well for you.

 

[Anamarija]

Very good topic and good advices about a psychopaths.

Recently ago I took the job just because it is very close to my home. Something I really don't like, cleaning. I didn't pay attention about my intuition and atmosphere because I fought, ok, I have a job, that's enough. Working hard for couple a months, earn some money and then relax and continued to work what I like..exploring.
I was so blind, I didn't noticed how my boss is cold, never smiles, doesn't give me sharp and good guidance about what I have to do. Always looks like everything is on her back. I was doing a lot of jobs that no one has mention in the beginning, but I like to work, especially in the nature, with a plants. I didn't have a place to lunch or smoke cigarettes and my stuff I could only put in the toilet with cleaning stuff?!

So, one day I decide to confront her about things I don't like. I didn't see this coming. She was so piss, but not aggressive. One hour she talked to me and asking me very unusual questions, telling me that she thinks that I want to comprehend her and her husband. And that because I said that I like meta phisics when we was spontaneously talking (at least I fought that was naturally and spontaneous talk). She said that she gave me ideal conditions to work. After couple of her sentence I fall silent. It was feeling when you become so inarticulate, just staring in her face and knowing that something is very wrong with this person. There's nothing to said anymore. Waste of time.
So, next day, she calls me and said that she want to break up our cooperation. My ego little bit shiver, but I knew that was good for me. She was talking some weird stuff about me that she realized, and I was really shock because I was never before so sure that I'm looking and listening some real psychopat. Very disturbing stuff.

Gladly, I finally have a family that helped me to get trough this so, the next day spontaneous I ask girl with a restaurant minute of walking from my home does she need a cook, she said: Yes!
The good thing is that I will be executive chef in her restaurant and I will have a much responibilitiy what I really like, but the bad things is that my lessons with working are not done. This people are very stingy, they are totally new in this job and doesn't have a clue about it. Her husband is little bit aggressive so...but will see.

So, my point is, especially in Croatia, when people searching for work they will accept what they really don't want just because of money, but that is first mistake. If you go for money, what you spend really fast, you will always have a bad taste because you working job that you don't like.
Second, if you don't pay attention about your intuition and feeling, checking humanity in the organization, your rights, you'll probably ending on job that you hate to go to.
It is better to act in the beginning if you don't like something and not just be silent type, because you gonna break up anyway.

The other people mentioned that is very important not to talk about yourself on the work. That is very hard, especially if you work every day, 8 hours or more. We are humans, not robots, but that is the best advice that you can get. Every your sentence someone will, probably, use to present you in the bad way when they have need to. Insane, yes, but that is our world.