Soul, genes, karma and learning 3D lessons

Thanks sitting, this was a really interesting excerpt from the Seth material! And thanks to the other posters in this thread as well, fascinating!

Joe said:
Thanks for sharing that sitting. The only thing I would make explicit about what it says is that it is *hidden* or unconscious thoughts and emotions that shape our reality. So the work involved is digging out that which is hidden within us, those unconscious beliefs etc. that rule our lives from behind the scenes and thereby shape our reality.

Yes, this is what I thought - it may be obvious to many people, but it should be remembered that "YCYOR" doesn't work in the way it is portrayed in New Age circles, i.e. wishing something which then supposedly manifests in our lives. If it were that simple, it wouldn't take us many lifetimes to learn it, as Seth said!

Which brings us back to our job at hand: learning how exactly the physical world relates to our thoughts and feelings and vice-versa. But since it primarily relates to our unconscious thoughts and feelings, then what we have to do is get in touch with these thoughts and feelings, figure out what they mean and separate the thought-loops/programs/trauma-induced stuff from those thoughts and feelings that help us relate to the universe in a positive and productive way, i.e. the Work!

I think by learning to be in touch with these "higher" feelings/thoughts, which also means being able to ACT upon those, we can indeed learn how our thoughts/emotions directly affect the physical world (though we should remember the C's "Scale!", meaning for the physical reality to change, it could take several years of thoughts and feelings, which from a higher perspective may be just the blink of an eye). This ability may be one of the "universal karmic and simple understandings" the C's talked about?
 
Just one further thought on this:

luc said:
I think by learning to be in touch with these "higher" feelings/thoughts, which also means being able to ACT upon those, we can indeed learn how our thoughts/emotions directly affect the physical world (though we should remember the C's "Scale!", meaning for the physical reality to change, it could take several years of thoughts and feelings, which from a higher perspective may be just the blink of an eye). This ability may be one of the "universal karmic and simple understandings" the C's talked about?

What if because of the Wave, or during the "1000 years period" of transition from 3D to 4D, the "time" between changed feelings/thoughts and their physical manifestations gets shorter and shorter, until "time" doesn't exist anymore? Meaning: If, let's say, you change your thought/feeling-pattern and act upon it, and after 5 years you look back and realize that you find yourself in another reality. Now, what if this process took only 3 years? 1 year? 1 month? 1 hour? 1 minute? Instantaneous? Would we then look at the world from a higher perspective? Just speculating here, sorry if it's too OT.
 
luc said:
Joe said:
Thanks for sharing that sitting. The only thing I would make explicit about what it says is that it is *hidden* or unconscious thoughts and emotions that shape our reality. So the work involved is digging out that which is hidden within us, those unconscious beliefs etc. that rule our lives from behind the scenes and thereby shape our reality.

Yes, this is what I thought - it may be obvious to many people, but it should be remembered that "YCYOR" doesn't work in the way it is portrayed in New Age circles,

It's the inner beliefs that matter. And these are exceedingly hard to identify and resolve.

There's no better example of this than in the person of Jane Roberts herself!

Seth had given her, over many years, explicit advice to improve her failing physical condition. But her inner belief (from early childhood) about her "sinful self" simply blocked out ALL his efforts. Such was its power and hold on her. And she died an early death -- suffering horribly.

To truly access and alter one's inner core beliefs ... is not easy.

FWIW.

PS
As an interesting aside, I sometimes do catch glimpses of such inner voices (beliefs) seeping out ... in the comments of others. Not often. It happens when someone is being utterly truthful, unguarded, un-self conscious, and vulnerable. It's remarkable -- and illuminating when that occurs. Awesome to behold. (Joe was a recent example.)
 
The idea that beliefs are largely unconscious or subconscious and, if not made known to the conscious mind, will dictate our beliefs and behavior, has been validated by several experiments on brain activity and "choices" made by humans.

In a kind of spooky experiment, scientists at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences reveal that our decisions are made seconds before we become aware of them.

In the study, participants could freely decide if they wanted to press a button with their right or left hand.

The only condition was that they had to remember when they made the decision to either use their right hand or left hand.

Using fMRI, researchers would scan the brains of the participants while all of this was going on in order to find out if they could in fact predict which hand the participants would use BEFORE they were consciously aware of the decision.

By monitoring the micro patterns of activity in the frontopolar cortex, the researchers could predict which hand the participant would choose 7 SECONDS before the participant was aware of the decision.

“Your decisions are strongly prepared by brain activity. By the time consciousness kicks in, most of the work has already been done,” said study co-author John-Dylan Haynes, a Max Planck Institute neuroscientist.

So our conscious decisions are "fed" to our conscious minds by....well, some other part of us over which, ordinarily, we have no influence. Let's say we can't really consciously access this subconscious part. So the process then would be to make sure that this part of is, the real "driver" has his/her head screwed on straight and is making decisions about our lives that are in a direction we have *consciously* decided we want to go.

Although the conscious mind is probably not totally sidelined here. By consciously CHOOSING to do other than what our "instinct" or habitual patterns would have us do, we can possibly set up a feedback loop to the unconscious, informing or teaching it new ways of "thinking" and also perhaps healing any issues or scars that it has.
 
Based on experience, I have found that the process of 'belief forming' is a dynamic 2 way process. I have found that we tie ourselves to the fabric of our reality and it ties itself to us in a sort of symbiotic relationship. For example, I have a sort of inferiority complex. My parents didn't necessarily bring me up to have this deep rooted sense of feeling, however, they also didn't bring me up not to have that sense of feeling. I would say it formed due to various reasons emanating from various places that all coalesced to make it into a force. I don't think it's entirely true to say I am responsible for it or that the external reality is responsible for it. In a way, I think it's shared responsibility and I'm tied to it as much as it's tied to me.

Now, when it comes to the matter of breaking free, if I personally don't hold all the power i.e. I only hold a partial amount with the other bit being held by what constitutes my reality/experiences, how does one begin to extricate themself?

In addition, I don't think all these attributes stand in isolation i.e. I would have a number of beliefs (carried over from past lives, picked up in this life etc) that would essentially interact with each other to produce something greater than any single one of them. As in, just as in our body chemical make up, we are a result of various interactions, reactions etc. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is i don't think its easy to change or that the individual holds all the power. PS: That could be that inferiority complex seeping through... :(
 
Alejo said:
I mean if the physical body must match genetically the soul... Like a glove that must match the hand in kind and size, for the hand to sit itself within it, I wonder if the changes in DNA have the ability to work in the direction of the soul, if the DNA changes does the soul change? Like if changes in the glove made changes in the hand... If that makes sense?

I have a slightly different take - although I also thought of the glove analogy. If we choose (as I believe) our parents including possible learning opportunities based on their current incarnations AND the suitability of the genes we will have to work with (RAW MATERIAL), then it could be just like selecting a newish pair of gardening gloves. Please bear with.

Not fresh & new, used. The used/inherited characteristics (genes) still must meet basic "for this purpose" criteria. I cannot select a size 8 glove if I have a size 10 hand. I probably wouldn't choose gardening gloves if I needed to be a concert pianist - wrong material.

So lets say I need to be a gardener & I have a slightly worn pair of gloves as my best pick. They fit. They will do the job. They will change depending on how different my hand is to the hand that shaped them and according to how much I use them (sweat, heat, abuse etc) Learnings :D. The more I work in them the more they will shape themselves to my hand and bend to my task. I may choose to brush off any old dirt that doesn't meet my aesthetics - If I even notice it.

Hand shapes the glove. Soul shapes the body.

I am beginning to think that the wave may be a case of dealing with a completely unknown plant using just my old trusty gloves.
 
Joe said:
Thanks for sharing that sitting. The only thing I would make explicit about what it says is that it is *hidden* or unconscious thoughts and emotions that shape our reality. So the work involved is digging out that which is hidden within us, those unconscious beliefs etc. that rule our lives from behind the scenes and thereby shape our reality.

Then just imagine what would happen if we were aware of these unconscious thoughts and emotions... What if we were aware of them, and instead of automatically acting on them / "creating" something we don't want - over and over - we could consciously choose to act differently? Eventually, the conscious thoughts and actions might sort of reprogram the unconscious stuff.

It's like a computer. The computer automatically does stuff in the background. Because of a bad network driver, our network connection keeps going down. Of course, you can also manually disable your network connection yourself, but you don't want to because you just love watching YouTube videos. Nevertheless, it keeps going down, over and over. Until you learn why that's happening, install a new driver or whatever, you'll keep having problems that are "out of your control". It's karma, man!

The unconscious and conscious are out of sync, so to speak.

In other words, maybe we could "create our own reality" consciously, but not until we've sorted out our deepest crazy emotions, fears, and unconscious drives.

Any progress we achieve would then be passed on to our offspring, theoretically... But that would mean that different souls would be needed to match the genetics depending on where we are in our path when those genetics are passed on. Not necessarily "more advanced" souls though, but simply ones that match better - whatever that may mean. And even then, toxicity and other factors would still come into play, which might damage the "better DNA" which then might be worse instead of better!

Oh no, I've gone cross-eyed... :nuts:
 
Scottie said:
Joe said:
Thanks for sharing that sitting. The only thing I would make explicit about what it says is that it is *hidden* or unconscious thoughts and emotions that shape our reality. So the work involved is digging out that which is hidden within us, those unconscious beliefs etc. that rule our lives from behind the scenes and thereby shape our reality.

Then just imagine what would happen if we were aware of these unconscious thoughts and emotions... What if we were aware of them, and instead of automatically acting on them / "creating" something we don't want - over and over - we could consciously choose to act differently? Eventually, the conscious thoughts and actions might sort of reprogram the unconscious stuff.

It's like a computer. The computer automatically does stuff in the background. Because of a bad network driver, our network connection keeps going down. Of course, you can also manually disable your network connection yourself, but you don't want to because you just love watching YouTube videos. Nevertheless, it keeps going down, over and over. Until you learn why that's happening, install a new driver or whatever, you'll keep having problems that are "out of your control". It's karma, man!

I think Dr. Joe Dispenza's Ted Talk might be useful in illustrating what that looks like from a neuro-chemical perspective.


Of course, part of the trick is becoming aware of the unconscious programming that leads us to make the same decisions repeatedly so that we have a hope of changing them. In his book, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself, Dr. Dispenza talks a lot about using self-observation and meditation to achieve this.
 
Joe said:
For those who have no idea about their past lives, it might be interesting to think about your main traits, possibly fears, ingrained attitudes, beliefs about life, and imagine what kind of previous life experience may have caused that. Might be an interesting exercise to do before sleep with the intent of getting an answer in dreams.

Just tried this exercise after meditating with the intend of learning what type of karma had passed over from my previous life/what happened in my previous life and I had a strange dream. I say strange because I usually have strange dreams and this one was normalish. I was invited to laura's house for a couple days and was shown around by this guy I used to work with at a credit union(I think), Jared, and after settling down we went for dinner and we all started conversing. Laura then stood up and announce she was going to tell us a story about Gurdjieff. Seemed like she did this often in the dream, and everyone was very excited and cheered. I also got the feeling that Gurdjieff was nearby. The strangest part was what I felt in the dream was a sense of childlike happiness, like I was a kid again and there was so much love and life. Then I began to speak to jared about practicing basketball with him and I woke up. That was a very beautiful dream, haven't felt like that in a long time.

While I was meditating before sleeping I had this thought that if our soul chooses the body, it is therefore aware of the 3D lessons of said body's lifetime since present, past, and future occur simultaneously. So wherever the soul is in it's learning cycle will determine the types of lessons it needs to advance, and these lessons will manifest themselves as genes/emotions/experiences and perception of said aspects of self and environment. Since we are in a giant school, then our bodies/genes are chosen by the soul to navigate the school to learn the specific lessons it needs to advance and/or clear up karma that may be rooted as certain beliefs in our subconscious. I think more important than what type of genes we carry is how we perceive our experience to learn what we need to learn. Since the physical is an illusion, all experiences derived from the genes are subjective; you can learn the same lessons regardless of what body you have. That's not to say that certain physical characteristics aren't a manifestation of karmic load of the soul or chosen by the soul to teach specific lesson. I think doing "the work" is paramount to allow the subconscious to drive towards the next grade.

Lots to contemplate
 
Just so we don't slip into the New Age trap, this timely reminder from C's:

A: most all power necessary for altering reality and physicality is
contained within the belief center of the mind.

Now a few definitions are in order I think. C's (to the best of my knowledge) have not expanded on the meaning of belief. But Seth had this to say:

Beliefs are thoughts -- reinforced by emotion and imagination -- about
the nature of our reality.

I don't know if the C's would object to the above. But they have certainly commented on "emotion" (the kind that assists ... and the kind that hinders.) Plus they've referenced "imagination" repeatedly in the transcripts.

Lastly on thoughts. Which may be dismissed as some New Age thingy. Flighty and perhaps not really real. The reminder here -- is the C's call themselves unified thought forms. And that description should put the concept of thought (along with its significance) in its proper perspective, I think.

I could be wrong.

FWIW.
 
Thinkingfingers said:
Just tried this exercise after meditating with the intend of learning what type of karma had passed over from my previous life/what happened in my previous life and I had a strange dream. I say strange because I usually have strange dreams and this one was normalish. I was invited to laura's house for a couple days and was shown around by this guy I used to work with at a credit union(I think), Jared, and after settling down we went for dinner and we all started conversing. Laura then stood up and announce she was going to tell us a story about Gurdjieff. Seemed like she did this often in the dream, and everyone was very excited and cheered. I also got the feeling that Gurdjieff was nearby. The strangest part was what I felt in the dream was a sense of childlike happiness, like I was a kid again and there was so much love and life. Then I began to speak to jared about practicing basketball with him and I woke up. That was a very beautiful dream, haven't felt like that in a long time.


An even better way to focus the intent here would be write in a journal about this idea before sleep. Maybe focus on the dominant traits you observe in yourself, where they might have come from. The act of physically writing impresses the ideas on the mind much more than just thinking.
 
Joe said:
If along with their genes, parents experiences can be passed on to their children - and let's face it, the most significant experiences that people have are usually painful ones - it's not surprising that there are expressions like "the apple doesn't fall far form the tree", and that certain patterns tend to repeat through generations. Expand this out collectively to the human race and you can easily see how broad social dynamics would repeat over longer periods of time.

Gabor Mate also says trauma is passed on from one generation to another a repeating cycle. According to Mate an unborn child's brain circuits can be wired due to the mother experiencing trauma and passing it on to the baby while still in the womb, maybe this can effect DNA and be passed onto the next generation or help in creating a genetic match for a soul incarnating for what ever lessons are needed, just speculating here.

Back when I did spirit release with Heather she told me in my past life that I was the son of some important man and that I had major falling out with him causing me to leave and have major father issues. She said that the reason I had incarnated into this life was to "get it right this time."

I had some big issues with my father growing up causing me to leave home and I didn't have much of a relationship with him until the last 2-3 yrs of his life. After a lot of soul searching I was able to forgive him and myself and we were able to have a healthier father and son relationship and talk about some of the problems we had in the past. I don't know if I "got it right this time" or if this life relates to my past life but lots of food for thought. Thanks for bringing this discussion up Joe.
 
Coincidentally, this showed up in my RSS feed yesterday:

'Should family therapy include your deceased great-great-grandmother? Epigenetics meets after-death communication'
http://www.skeptiko.com/dan-booth-cohen-emily-volden-systemic-family-therapy/

Welcome to Skeptiko where we explore controversial science with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. Today we talk about families… and what a pain in the neck they can be. Don’t get me wrong, I treasure my family. I treasure my relationship with my wife, but it’s difficult at times. My kids? They’re awesome; except when they’re not. My brother, sisters, aunts, uncles, brother-in-laws, all that extended family I don’t see much, they’re great too. But like the rest of my family their problems can become my problems. Families issues can become overwhelming. They can send us look for help.

Today’s guests (Dan Booth Cohen and Emily Blefeld Volden) are two psychotherapists who help individuals and family systems get back on track. But what makes them interesting, and relevant Skeptiko listeners, is they’ve shattered the traditional family therapy model by incorporating in the growing, inescapable body of evidence suggesting consciousness extends beyond death and that those who are deceased may still be among us. So, if you thought you had problems with your family — stick around — you’re liable to find out you have a lot more folks in your lineage to worry about: (follow link for the interview)

Dr. Cohen says, "when the ancestors are not okay, and often they are not, they show up in our lives as our symptoms". The approach of dealing with 'ancestor issues' kind of reminds me of one of the techniques Heather uses, to take the person back to an earlier time in their own life and fix that problem as if you really were still that younger person. It looks like these two psychotherapists apply a similar principle, but direct part of the therapy to our ancestors' issues. (They also discuss the epigenetic angle briefly, and Sheldrake). I haven't had a chance to listen to the whole thing yet, so I can't really assess their work yet, but it's interesting that someone is at least looking into this approach.

Joe said:
The idea that beliefs are largely unconscious or subconscious and, if not made known to the conscious mind, will dictate our beliefs and behavior, has been validated by several experiments on brain activity and "choices" made by humans.
...
Although the conscious mind is probably not totally sidelined here. By consciously CHOOSING to do other than what our "instinct" or habitual patterns would have us do, we can possibly set up a feedback loop to the unconscious, informing or teaching it new ways of "thinking" and also perhaps healing any issues or scars that it has.

I think you hit on one of the important things about this study, because it and others like it are often used by the hardcore atheist/materialist types to say that humans have absolutely no free will. But that's not necessarily the case. Like you said, we can consciously choose to do other than what our habits would have us do. Unfortunately, experimenters haven't really realized this for the most part, so they don't test for it.

The lab setting has some similarities to real life, but there are potentially some big differences. For example, can choosing whether to use your right or left hand be compared to something that you consider over a period of days, weeks, or even months, and potentially with feedback from others? Or, can a person actively change their mind within those 7 seconds? And, like you said, can we consciously 'train' our unconscious to act in new ways, develop new habits? For example, when playing a piece of music, I'm guessing that a musician's unconscious has already 'decided' to perform certain movements before the actual performance of those movements. But that doesn't mean there hasn't been any conscious effort in order to get there (e.g. choosing to practice rather than eat potato chips and watch old episodes of Friends).

Looks like some researchers have got the idea, though:
http://www.charite.de/en/service/press_reports/artikel/detail/the_brain_computer_duel_do_we_have_free_will/
Our choices seem to be freer than previously thought. Using computer-based brain experiments, researchers from Charité – Universitätsmedizin Berlin studied the decision-making processes involved in voluntary movements. The question was: Is it possible for people to cancel a movement once the brain has started preparing it? The conclusion the researchers reached was: Yes, up to a certain point – the 'point of no return'. The results of this study have been published in the journal PNAS*.

The background to this new set of experiments lies in the debate regarding conscious will and determinism in human decision-making, which has attracted researchers, psychologists, philosophers and the general public, and which has been ongoing since at least the 1980s. Back then, the American researcher Benjamin Libet studied the nature of cerebral processes of study participants during conscious decision-making. He demonstrated that conscious decisions were initiated by unconscious brain processes, and that a wave of brain activity referred to as a 'readiness potential' could be recorded even before the subject had made a conscious decision.

How can the unconscious brain processes possibly know in advance what decision a person is going to make at a time when they are not yet sure themselves? Until now, the existence of such preparatory brain processes has been regarded as evidence of 'determinism', according to which free will is nothing but an illusion, meaning our decisions are initiated by unconscious brain processes, and not by our 'conscious self'. In conjunction with Prof. Dr. Benjamin Blankertz and Matthias Schultze-Kraft from Technische Universität Berlin, a team of researchers from Charité's Bernstein Center for Computational Neuroscience, led by Prof. Dr. John-Dylan Haynes, has now taken a fresh look at this issue. Using state-of-the-art measurement techniques, the researchers tested whether people are able to stop planned movements once the readiness potential for a movement has been triggered.

“The aim of our research was to find out whether the presence of early brain waves means that further decision-making is automatic and not under conscious control, or whether the person can still cancel the decision, i.e. use a 'veto',” explains Prof. Haynes. As part of this study, researchers asked study participants to enter into a 'duel' with a computer, and then monitored their brain waves throughout the duration of the game using electroencephalography (EEG). A specially-trained computer was then tasked with using these EEG data to predict when a subject would move, the aim being to out-maneuver the player. This was achieved by manipulating the game in favor of the computer as soon as brain wave measurements indicated that the player was about to move.

If subjects are able to evade being predicted based on their own brain processes this would be evidence that control over their actions can be retained for much longer than previously thought, which is exactly what the researchers were able to demonstrate. “A person’s decisions are not at the mercy of unconscious and early brain waves. They are able to actively intervene in the decision-making process and interrupt a movement,” says Prof. Haynes. “Previously people have used the preparatory brain signals to argue against free will. Our study now shows that the freedom is much less limited than previously thought. However, there is a 'point of no return' in the decision-making process, after which cancellation of movement is no longer possible.” Further studies are planned in which the researchers will investigate more complex decision-making processes.

As long as we take the path of least resistance, we'll probably just continue acting in the ways that we're used to acting. But just like our genes are not set in stone, our 'readiness potentials' aren't either. We just need to be first aware that this is the case: that we DO act in habitual ways that may not be in our best interest (or of those around us). Awareness of the habits can then be clues as to what the deep beliefs are. And all that knowledge can then help us train ourselves to develop a new habit. And maybe doing some psychotherapy with out ancestors can help! ;D
 
Scottie « Reply #36 on: Today at 02:49:42 PM »

« Then just imagine what would happen if we were aware of these unconscious thoughts and emotions... What if we were aware of them, and instead of automatically acting on them / "creating" something we don't want - over and over - we could consciously choose to act differently? Eventually, the conscious thoughts and actions might sort of reprogram the unconscious stuff. »

------------------------- ---------------------------- ---------------------------

The magical practice can become a scientific experiment.

Two techniques:

Eileen Garrett developed a technique to stimulate their own psychophysical vision and, in particular, "to make use of precognition."
Thanks to this technique, managed to escape "the illusory stream of time" and dive into a dimension "where time loses all reality and which seem possible to live in the moment in the past and in the future."

"My life as search for the neaning of mediumship" by Eileen Garrett.

The engineer JW Dunne also demonstrate achievement of the future can insinuate day to mind, as long as it is a pretext, a trail to follow.
Dunne resorted the most of the time this system:
Printed well in your mind the title of a book not yet read; by chance or even open a page for the name of a character. After this book aside and tried to free the mind of interference represented by the memory of past situations and ideas concerning situations present itself.
In other words trying to make a sort of "mental vacuum": an exercise that not everyone would know to do. Before or after the time came to his mind was presented with an idea, an image or a name that had nothing to do with his past experiences or with presenrtes.
He took note and then read the book. Sooner or later, not always but quite often one of those pages was the image, the idea or the name had appeared in his mind before starting reading.

"An Experiment With Time" by J. W. Dunne.
 
Approaching Infinity said:
Coincidentally, this showed up in my RSS feed yesterday:

'Should family therapy include your deceased great-great-grandmother? Epigenetics meets after-death communication'

Pretty interesting!

Over the last year or so, I had a chance to sit with my father to gather family details. My father told me stories about my great-great grandmother that nearly blew me away. For instance, at one point I chose the alias "Blanca" without knowing why. The name was rare and didn't ringed a bell with anything associated in my life. I later learned that my great-great grandmother and my great-grandmother were named like that. Details about their life struggles and dramas resonated deeply within me. It was really a very interesting experience.

Something similar happened when I later sat with my mother to gather family experiences. My mother knows much less about past ancestors, but her story about how her brother drowned in a river because he didn't knew how to swim strongly resonated as well. He was unable to admit he didn't knew how to swim to his friends.

In both cases, I felt like a pressure was lifted off my chest. It felt liberating to know their stories.

It also reminded me our past discussion of "Healing the Spirits of Trauma".

It was also interesting to see how Heather was able to see the "timeline" in order to assess which event needed "work": a past life or an event in the present life? Often, past and present lives were related.
 

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