Soul, genes, karma and learning 3D lessons

[Corvus]

You can click on the "Quote from" at the top of the quote, they're from October 7, 1997

Thanks.

So perhaps DNA is less important to focus on, more the idea that we inherit (through many mechanisms) the traits, choices and actions/reaction of our genetic ancestors (as well as theoretically our past lives).
Combined with things like morphic resonance (an entire species suddenly developing the same skill) and it gives an interesting perspective on things like information theory and the Work.

I was thinking is it possible to access memory of all your ancestors past lives through DNA not only your past life memories. Theories that suggest that we can tap into the deep nature of DNA to uncover ancient memories are not new. In the 1960s, some psychological researchers claimed that there may be keys that unlock our DNA, revealing experiences of generations of our relatives who lived long before our present time.

In the 1988 movie ALTERED STATES starring William Hurt, the main character, a research scientist (Hurt) dives deep into his consciousness and genetic roots. In the film, he not only relives ancient experiences of his ancestors, he actually changes on the biological level.

This film was reportedly based on the real-life research of prominent psychologists and medical researchers of the 1960s and ‘70s who used isolation tanks and pharmacological triggers to access deep DNA memories and experiences, which they claimed were real.

These ideas are similar in a way to the concepts of past lives and reincarnation. However, this DNA-related line of thinking focuses on the previous lives within us that are based on genetic memories, encoded on the DNA helix within us.

 

[Joe]

So perhaps DNA is less important to focus on, more the idea that we inherit (through many mechanisms) the traits, choices and actions/reaction of our genetic ancestors (as well as theoretically our past lives).
Combined with things like morphic resonance (an entire species suddenly developing the same skill) and it gives an interesting perspective on things like information theory and the Work.

Very interesting study, although I think DNA is still pretty central to the situation, since that seems to be the physical mechanism through which these traits are passed on to the next generation. What's interesting to me is the nexus between our past lives and our own experiences in those lives and how they are shaped by our forebears. In my purported past life, did I HAVE to have that experience of betrayal, or was it dictated by the experiences of my parents in that life, because they had a similar experience, passed it on to me and led me to repeat the pattern?

Obviously you could trace this back through as many generations as you like, OR, there could have been a foundational "objective" experience that was started the ball rolling. And from there it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where the parents pass on the belief or fear or attitude to life to the children, and that attitude, which is supposedly meant to prevent trauma and pain, actually ends up provoking it, which entrenches the belief in the fear or the attitude to life, which is then passed on to the next generation.

If there's one thing that I would pick as an example of the defining (and really very annoying!) aspects of human experience, it is the self-fulfilling prophecy thing that so many people seem to engage in. Then again, as I mentioned in my previous post, it seems that this is also a mechanism whereby, ultimately, the transgenerational belief(s) must be confronted because they end up causing too many problems in life, provoking the awareness of the attitude/belief itself, and then that it is, in fact, preventing us from getting what we REALLY want. What we REALLY want coming as something of a revelation.

 

[Keit]

Obviously you could trace this back through as many generations as you like, OR, there could have been a foundational "objective" experience that was started the ball rolling. And from there it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where the parents pass on the belief or fear or attitude to life to the children, and that attitude, which is supposedly meant to prevent trauma and pain, actually ends up provoking it, entrenching the belief in the fear or the attitude to life, which is then passed on to the next generation.

Maybe this is when the concept of "crossroads" comes into play? During our lives we have countless choices, take countless turns, etc. And they can be influenced by our previous experiences or myriad of other influences. But then there are moments that are "more equal than others" so to say, and this is when maybe conscious effort and making a conscious choice to act differently has an effect on the whole "life film". And if no different choice was made, then things indeed continue as a "self-fulfilling prophecy", until a soul can gain "momentum" or "soul strength" to change it? Can take lifetimes for all we know. Of course other things can happen too, like conflicting of energies and thought centers, etc.

 

[T.C.]

Thanks for the opening post Joe - real food for thought!

Obviously you could trace this back through as many generations as you like, OR, there could have been a foundational "objective" experience that was started the ball rolling. And from there it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where the parents pass on the belief or fear or attitude to life to the children, and that attitude, which is supposedly meant to prevent trauma and pain, actually ends up provoking it, entrenching the belief in the fear or the attitude to life, which is then passed on to the next generation.

Maybe this is when the concept of "crossroads" comes into play? During our lives we have countless choices, take countless turns, etc. And they can be influenced by our previous experiences or myriad of other influences. But then there are moments that are "more equal than others" so to say, and this is when maybe conscious effort and making a conscious choice to act differently has an effect on the whole "life film". And if no different choice was made, then things indeed continue as a "self-fulfilling prophecy", until a soul can gain "momentum" or "soul strength" to change it? Can take lifetimes for all we know. Of course other things can happen too, like conflicting of energies and thought centers, etc.

In regards to this, I guess that a soul may choose a certain body to incarnate into, knowing that the genetics and parents programming is going to set them up to process their karma, but that these above 'choice moments' are like the escape hatches from a rigid timeline or path. Like Mouravieff talks about the automatic life being just a circle that goes round and round, but with effort, by making big choices at certain points, we can break the circle and turn it into a rising spiral.

 

[Chu]

Fascinating discussion. I admit I hadn't thought of Karma as involving beliefs too, or to such a great extent, but it makes a lot of sense. And perhaps the genetic profile and parents/environment/life situation we chose, all combine to give us the opportunity to undo those beliefs. The trick is that they would initially seem to tend to reinforce them first, until and if we decide to choose to break free of that in this life. Some people may be "geniuses" who learn from observing the situation, their ancestors and other people, or tapping into ancient memories. Others need the proverbial billboard on their head (and more "karma" accumulated) in order to learn, and there still remains to be seen whether the person wants to learn or not. Only results would show the answer.

It puts a new light on the traumas inflicted in childhood, and the parents/relatives we had. I can see many similarities in my parents' "profile" and mine. Some things they passed on to me, one could say. Others, maybe just "matched" to begin with (?). And they needed to be there in order to reinforce those things, so that they could become so obvious as to want to change them. Then, if I can change those things, maybe they can too if they so choose at some level. If not, at least I may have broken the cycle. One can hope.

So, it could be like the "film" repeating itself, history repeating itself, everything repeating itself, but for a purpose, if we can actually see it like that and re-wire ourselves/go against those beliefs. Usually that will involve doing what "it" doesn't like, applying the Work principles, and giving to others without any expectation of a return as possible, etc. in spite of our STS limitations.

A false belief ultimately causes us to do selfish things, to act meanly towards others, to act out of self-importance, selfishness, fear, etc. in a lame attempt at protecting ourselves, or maybe a wanting a "payback" for the suffering in other lives (i.e. which was sometimes caused by real facts that were hurtful but we don't remember consciously, by the experiences and beliefs in our surroundings, and sometimes by those same false beliefs we didn't learn to change back then!). And that is where the self-fulfilling prophecy wound come in, because due to not acknowledging any of this, we end up creating exactly whatever it is we feared the most, just like our parents and their parents did.

So, better start with what we have, and see where it leads us, I guess, and from that, one can glean a certain type of hope. It's never over unless we decide not to do anything about out issues and beliefs.

The same could be said about DNA as can be said about Zodiac signs, maybe. It's like "molds" we are born into, involving personality traits, things that will come more "naturally" to us. But nothing is set in stone, and one CAN move beyond that mold provided super-efforts are made.

Indirectly (because the process of figuring out what one wants is complicated in itself and part of the above process), it reminded me of something Ark wrote once:

So, I suggest, forget all your "I should", and replace it by "I ALWAYS WANTED...". It may take
a while for you to specify what it is that you "always wanted", but, on the other hand, perhaps you
know it right away.

FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue.

If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation"
or "should stressing" - start it.

First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.

This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.

Food for thought, for sure, even if we're just speculating.

 

[Ollie]

Thanks for the opening post Joe - real food for thought!

Obviously you could trace this back through as many generations as you like, OR, there could have been a foundational "objective" experience that was started the ball rolling. And from there it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where the parents pass on the belief or fear or attitude to life to the children, and that attitude, which is supposedly meant to prevent trauma and pain, actually ends up provoking it, entrenching the belief in the fear or the attitude to life, which is then passed on to the next generation.

Maybe this is when the concept of "crossroads" comes into play? During our lives we have countless choices, take countless turns, etc. And they can be influenced by our previous experiences or myriad of other influences. But then there are moments that are "more equal than others" so to say, and this is when maybe conscious effort and making a conscious choice to act differently has an effect on the whole "life film". And if no different choice was made, then things indeed continue as a "self-fulfilling prophecy", until a soul can gain "momentum" or "soul strength" to change it? Can take lifetimes for all we know. Of course other things can happen too, like conflicting of energies and thought centers, etc.

In regards to this, I guess that a soul may choose a certain body to incarnate into, knowing that the genetics and parents programming is going to set them up to process their karma, but that these above 'choice moments' are like the escape hatches from a rigid timeline or path. Like Mouravieff talks about the automatic life being just a circle that goes round and round, but with effort, by making big choices at certain points, we can break the circle and turn it into a rising spiral.

That is my take on it too, making conscious choices to DO, in order to break out of the circle of Life and turn it into a rising spiral of Life.

After all, we came into this life for the learnings, and to take advantage of what is presented to us, to act on it and make choices to set free the limitations we 'were' working with, and still are (the Predator's Mind). This a daily task; working on our issues and beliefs.

Hopefully it is never to late to learn!

I too, can see similarities in my parents' profile, my own, and in the profile of my children.

 

[Joe]

Fascinating discussion. I admit I hadn't thought of Karma as involving beliefs too, or to such a great extent, but it makes a lot of sense. And perhaps the genetic profile and parents/environment/life situation we chose, all combine to give us the opportunity to undo those beliefs. The trick is that they would initially seem to tend to reinforce them first, until and if we decide to choose to break free of that in this life. Some people may be "geniuses" who learn from observing the situation, their ancestors and other people, or tapping into ancient memories. Others need the proverbial billboard on their head (and more "karma" accumulated) in order to learn, and there still remains to be seen whether the person wants to learn or not. Only results would show the answer.

Well, notice that the billboard falling on your head is not more karma accumulated IF, the process of the billboard falling is what wakes you up. In this theory, "karma" is simply false beliefs. Removing them and adopting beliefs based on What IS, "pays back" karma.

 

[Joe]

For those who have no idea about their past lives, it might be interesting to think about your main traits, possibly fears, ingrained attitudes, beliefs about life, and imagine what kind of previous life experience may have caused that. Might be an interesting exercise to do before sleep with the intent of getting an answer in dreams.

 

[luke wilson]

For those who have no idea about their past lives, it might be interesting to think about your main traits, possibly fears, ingrained attitudes, beliefs about life, and imagine what kind of previous life experience may have caused that. Might be an interesting exercise to do before sleep with the intent of getting an answer in dreams.

How do you find out stuff about your past life?

 

[Alejo]

This is super interesting,

And it's something I've thought about myself, it's the answer to whenever I would as the question "why did this happen to me?" In regards to some experiences in my childhood, and at some point I remember thinking that the process of selection of parenting has to be linked to the lessons that the souls need to go through, I always thought of it like picking a train/bus route in a city, "I got onto this train and all its qualities and characteristics because I need to get to x spot" and in that sense I thought that part of that selection process was the guarantee that some DNA factors would be present that would sort of define your physical experience in the world, which in some cases can define your spiritual experience.

It's so interesting to read this today, as I was just talking with my brothers the other day and I remember saying to them "we all have something from my mother, each one of us has a different aspect of her personality" and like it has been said above, these aspects are things that we could attempt to understand objectively and turn their presence in our lives into transformative knowledge (through work), which would epigenetically change our DNA, or instead we could identify with them and essentially become our parents sort of.

I mean if the physical body must match genetically the soul... Like a glove that must match the hand in kind and size, for the hand to sit itself within it, I wonder if the changes in DNA have the ability to work in the direction of the soul, if the DNA changes does the soul change? Like if changes in the glove made changes in the hand... If that makes sense?

 

[Mikey]

I agree that what we're discussing here may explain how an esoteric concept like "Karma" actually works.

To summarize as a list:

1. Someone is born, and during the life time something 'bad' happens by accident (accidents do happen!)
2. This 'bad' thing is now integrated into the DNA (via the mechanism suggested in the study linked from the first post)
3. This issue is not being Worked on (never resolved).
4. The incarnation ends, and the soul (if present) now carries this undesirable element within its 'information field'.
5. The soul reincarnates into a family having DNA which matches this undesirable element, so as to get a chance to resolve it.
6. This issue is not being Worked on again, so go back to step 4 (endless loop from here on).

How often this loop happens could then depend on the efforts / the Work during the lifetime. The Work could then be defined as a way to generate acausal events that allow one to break the causal loop. But that's certainly not an easy task on our level.

Above listed process may also be valid even when no 'soul' (as understood by Gurdjieff) is present. It would then be a mechanical, self-perpetuating chain of events by default (simply via inheritance).

 

[Joe]

I agree that what we're discussing here may explain how an esoteric concept like "Karma" actually works.

To summarize as a list:

1. Someone is born, and during the life time something 'bad' happens by accident (accidents do happen!)
2. This 'bad' thing is now integrated into the DNA (via the mechanism suggested in the study linked from the first post)
3. This issue is not being Worked on (never resolved).
4. The incarnation ends, and the soul (if present) now carries this undesirable element within its 'information field'.
5. The soul reincarnates into a family having DNA which matches this undesirable element, so as to get a chance to resolve it.
6. This issue is not being Worked on again, so go back to step 4 (endless loop from here on).

How often this loop happens could then depend on the efforts / the Work during the lifetime. The Work could then be defined as a way to generate acausal events that allow one to break the causal loop. But that's certainly not an easy task on our level.

And there's also the aspect of the repeated incarnations where the particular issue compounds itself until it reaches a point where it is causing such problems for the individual in question that they finally "wake up" and begin the process of unraveling the tangled knots of wrong beliefs. That is, to a large extent, what the work of this forum aims to help with.

 

[sitting]

... there's also the aspect of the repeated incarnations where the particular issue compounds itself until it reaches a point where it is causing such problems for the individual in question that they finally "wake up"

Here's another perspective -- on this most important of topics.

I posted this once before. And my belief & confidence in it has grown over time. It's from the Seth material -- specifically a "future self" of the Seth entity. No guarantees of course, but I think it's worth a look:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The human race is a stage through which various forms of consciousness travel.

Before you can be allowed into systems of reality that are more extensive
and open, you must first learn to handle energy. And see, through physical
materialization, the concrete results of thought & emotion.

In more advanced systems, thoughts & emotions are automatically and
immediately -- translated into action.

Therefore, the lessons must be learned well.

The responsibility for creation must be clearly understood.

If you realize that you create your physical reality through your own thoughts
and desires, then you have learned the most important aspects of reality.

This is what you have been setting out to do in your other lives ... in
your past existences.

Realization of these truths -- nullifies any so-called debts from other lives.

When you realize this, and act on it, there's no reason for you to come back
here again, unless you want to.

Any of your difficulties in past lives were caused because you did not realize
these basic truths.

You are in physical existence to learn and understand that your energy,
translated into feelings, thoughts and emotions, causes ALL experience.

THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS.

If you still do not realize that you create the reality that you know, then
you return ... and again you learn to manipulate.

Again & again ... you see the results of your own inner reality as you meet
it objectified.

You teach yourself the lesson until you have learned it. And when you have
learned it, then you have begun to learn how to handle the consciousness
that is yours -- intelligently and well.

The very point of physical existence is that you realize your thoughts become
matter while you're here.

You are meant to judge physical reality. You're meant to realize that it is a
materialization of your thoughts and feelings and images, that the inner self
forms that world.

You cannot be allowed to go into other dimensions until you have learned the
power of your thoughts & subjective feelings.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My confidence in the above material is substantially enhanced by the non-existence of contradiction with any and all of the C's commentary. Had there been such, I would've felt differently ... as I consider the C's to be higher order entities.

Additionally, Seth had made amply clear that in the overall scale of things, he's presently somewhere at the intermediate stage of development. The remarks above came from a higher version (future self) of himself.

FWIW.

 

[Joe]

Thanks for sharing that sitting. The only thing I would make explicit about what it says is that it is *hidden* or unconscious thoughts and emotions that shape our reality. So the work involved is digging out that which is hidden within us, those unconscious beliefs etc. that rule our lives from behind the scenes and thereby shape our reality.

 

[sitting]

The only thing I would make explicit about what it says is that it is *hidden* or unconscious thoughts and emotions that shape our reality. So the work involved is digging out that which is hidden within us, those unconscious beliefs etc. that rule our lives from behind the scenes and thereby shape our reality.

Agreed.