Spiritual Healer

[mocachapeau]

I'm just a guy, that read a book, found the subject interesting, decided to check out the related website, and inquire about something I had learned about somewhere else. That's it.

If that is true, and you must admit that it could be, why do I feel like I am under some kind of microscope where my intentions, sincerity and integrity are being closely scrutinized and judged? I may be guilty of nothing more than not having done enough reading to fully understand the concepts involved. Does that disqualify me from the category of people that this mission is trying to help? Or from deserving the benefit of the doubt? Ark's reply shows that he doesn't think so, and I thank him for that.

If I am reading a pirated copy of the transcripts, I was unaware of that. I got it from eMule, a P2P network. What can I say - I'm not wealthy so I get a lot of material there. And no, I obviously don't mind telling you where I got them. I'm just trying to learn, any way I can.

I thank you for your answers to my questions, and I do see your point about what constitutes a ritual. I will keep that in mind as I read on.

 

[PepperFritz]

... why do I feel like I am under some kind of microscope where my intentions, sincerity and integrity are being closely scrutinized and judged?

Perhaps you have never before had your assumptions questioned, or your statements and claims subjected to objective observation (which is not the same as "judgment"). Perhaps because these are new concepts for you, you are reacting emotionally to the experience -- interpreting our responses as an "attack" against which you must defend yourself. Your emotion-laden choice of words suggests that this is the case: "guilty", "disqualify", "deserving", "sincerity", "integrity", "scrutinized", "judged", etc.

If you review your posts and the replies to them in a less emotional context, I think you'll see that you were indeed given "the benefit of the doubt" by all concerned. Your posts were politely responded to within a reasonable period of time of your posting, a number of people (including Linda and Ark, who are extremely busy people, and do not have the time to respond everyone) took the time and energy to respond honestly and objectively to your questions and comments, with a view to pointing you in the right direction. You were not ignored as someone not worth the effort, someone who just doesn't "get it". Instead, you were given valuable insights into your current way of thinking; an alternative way of thinking about the subjects you are interested in; and some reading material where you can become better acquainted with "the concepts involved".

I would also strongly recommend that you carefully read The Rules of this forum, which will give you further insight into what will be expected of you here, and also outlines the kind of environment you can expect to encounter. It's not one where people are encouraged to just drop by and idly chat, it is one in which your assumptions WILL be questioned and where your statements and claims WILL be subjected to objective observation. It can sometimes be an uncomfortable experience, even for "veteran" members of the forum. It is a place where you eventually learn to question and objectively analyze your own ideas, assumptions, and beliefs BEFORE you post, because the moderators are very skilled at what they do and have very finely honed BS detectors.

Learn not to take things personally; be prepared to throw out all of your Sacred Cows; and bring yourself up to speed as quickly as possible by reading all the recommended material. Unlike other groups, this one doesn't ask for your money, just your time.

I think you'll find the following thread very helpful as well: The Work: How To Get Started....

Welcome to the Forum!

 

[anart]

I'm just a guy, that read a book, found the subject interesting, decided to check out the related website, and inquire about something I had learned about somewhere else. That's it.

If that is true, and you must admit that it could be, why do I feel like I am under some kind of microscope where my intentions, sincerity and integrity are being closely scrutinized and judged? I may be guilty of nothing more than not having done enough reading to fully understand the concepts involved. Does that disqualify me from the category of people that this mission is trying to help? Or from deserving the benefit of the doubt? Ark's reply shows that he doesn't think so, and I thank him for that.

If I am reading a pirated copy of the transcripts, I was unaware of that. I got it from eMule, a P2P network. What can I say - I'm not wealthy so I get a lot of material there. And no, I obviously don't mind telling you where I got them. I'm just trying to learn, any way I can.

I thank you for your answers to my questions, and I do see your point about what constitutes a ritual. I will keep that in mind as I read on.

It also might help to understand that people are taking the time and energy to respond to you, and hold you accountable for what you write and how you express yourself here (That is a good thing - it means that you are being listened to). I think that is one of things that a lot of people initially have trouble grasping - that what they write, what they say and how they say it are actually given attention on this forum - it is important.

That also means you'll be held accountable for it - and questioned on anything that doesn't ring true or isn't clear. I suppose that if one has lived a life in which one just sort of 'talks' no matter who is listening, or if anyone at all is listening, then it's can be rather jarring to be held accountable for every word you write.

As far as 'benefit of the doubt' - that's not really part of what occurs here, Gurdjieff's take on that was that everyone is 'dog poo' until they prove that they are not (he didn't use the word 'poo' however ).

My point is that it is not a negative thing to be held accountable for what you write - it is not a negative thing to learn or to release sacred cows or to be divested of lies - no matter how negative it might 'feel' as it occurs. Just some thoughts.

 

[PepperFritz]

Moderators:

For the benefit of newbies, is there a list somewhere of Laura's works, and the order in which they should be read? I recall seeing such a thing at one time, but can't seem to locate it....

Thanks.

 

[mocachapeau]

Alright, I see what you are all saying, and I realize I am far from being an adept at ridding myself of my egoic thinking. I DO appreciate the time taken to respond to my questions, and I thank you all for that.

I will keep all this in mind - it is truly not my intention to create situations for myself that will simply discourage me from keeping on with the process of discovery.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Moderators:

For the benefit of newbies, is there a list somewhere of Laura's works, and the order in which they should be read? I recall seeing such a thing at one time, but can't seem to locate it....

Thanks.

If you mean Laura's published books, I'd recommend reading High Strangeness first, then the Wave Series. That should provide background for Secret History. 9/11: Ultimate Truth can be read before or after all the above.

 

[Ivan_]

Moderators:

For the benefit of newbies, is there a list somewhere of Laura's works, and the order in which they should be read? I recall seeing such a thing at one time, but can't seem to locate it....

Thanks.

I was after the same thing all day, there was probably a newbie talk after which someone had gathered some links after which Laura said something like "Thanks for the useful links" or something similar and i would ask if anyone sees it to wistle. Never mind that, she made a list of books here for one to be more prepared for the upcoming video and to be prepared in general. Here it is : _http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8860&p=8 I am refering to post #76 . Interesting enough the RA material and Bringers of Dawn aren`t in the list.
P.S. _http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4718

 

[Erna]

And welcome to the forum, mocachapeau! Be sure to have a VERY effective virus program if you run P2P ;)

 

[Approaching Infinity]

On the subject of ritual, Dabrowski attempted to differentiate the levels of religious behavior (based on an assessment of level of emotional development, or Being). Here's what he wrote in his Multilevelness book on the function of "magic":

MAGIC

Level I

Primitive magic of thought, voice, words, gestures, and drawings or figures; most frequent among primitive tribes and people on a low level of development. This type of magical thinking is manifested as experience of one’s physical prowess and magic strength generated by self-suggestion of one’s physique, gestures, speech, ambition, etc. Magic of ritualistic forms.

Level II

Partial inhibition of primitive magic. Breakdown of physical magic and partially of the magic of external ritual. Clearly observable struggle and vacillation of magic forces of higher and lower levels. Interests and suggestibility associated with telepathy, ESP, palmistry, and other psychic phenomena without differentiating their value and significance for personal development, hence dependence on uncertain and unverified authorities. Ambivalences and ambitendencies with respect to previous, magical attitudes cause periodical diminution of attraction to primitive forms of magic. Manifestations of magical thinking similar to that of children: fairy tales, fantasy, animism.

Level III

Magic undergoes hierarchization. Magic forces gradually shift upwards (to higher levels of the inner psychic milieu) according to the principle of hierarchization of functions. Clear disorganization of magic of lower level. Higher emotional factors (unconscious and conscious) begin to act and collaborate together with discursive factors. In consequence the level of magical activity is raised. The attitude of ritual, gesture, or suggestion is, as a rule, coupled with the action of higher dynamisms such as empathy and inner psychic transformation. Certain elements of magic are accepted and respected but the individual demands their elaboration, verification and integration with the whole process of development. The magic of word and gesture ceases to be of any significance if it is isolated and not connected with the higher levels of the developing personality. A clear example of the action of positive maladjustment is reaction against primitive forms of magic. Thus, for instance, prayer limited to external form, or a blessing not having its source in authentic contemplative spirit, are not acceptable anymore.

Level IV

Magic ceases to apply as such, instead, it is replaced by the cooperation of spiritual forces which integrate elements of an ecstatic state, prayer, a sense of spiritual power, and sometimes also a high level of artistic expression. This blending of high level processes suggests the notion of an inner mystery play. Magical suggestibility works no longer at this level. “Magic” of higher levels is elaborated through self-awareness and self-control. There is a total separation from magic of physical character, and in consequence, total rejection of magic on a low or medium level. The individual strives to reduce his egocentrism and to put magic to the service of meditation and contemplation. Magic becomes a function of a mystical attitude and of ecstasy. No magical elements work in isolation from the dynamics of higher spiritual reality.

Level V

“Magic” becomes autonomous and authentic. Magic is a part of an existential attitude bordering on transcendental, it is in the service of empirical mysticism, empathy and the ideal. Magic, is clearly purified, controlled and totally free from any egocentrism: magic of the mystery of transcendence.

Here are the first two levels of the religious function:

RELIGION

Level I

Primitive naturalism frequently as a function of the need of self preservation. Fear and humbleness before “higher forces”, expectation of punishment. Primitive symbolization of gods. Praising the gods and bribing them with gifts and offerings. Brutality and cruelty in making live sacrifices. Forms of deification of oneself.

Level II

Beginnings of experiencing and adopting an immanent attitude. Some degree of respect for divinity. Fluctuation of feelings toward gods or one god manifested in atheistic and personalistic attitudes. Variable attitudes of fear, self abasement and subordination alternating with periods of self confidence. The emotional attitude toward a god of good and a god of evil is not elaborated and, therefore, inconsistent and unstable. The conceptions of immanence and transcendence are vague because a superficial external attitude toward a god prevails, hence attraction toward religious ceremony and ritual.

In short, without any development of one's own inner Being, "magic" or "religion" or "the way one interacts with the universe" will only be expressed in purely external forms. There will be outer rituals without inner content. At higher levels there is no "ritual" as there is at lower levels. There is only an authentic interaction with a living universe.

 

[mocachapeau]

Thank you Erna.