Stalking, Intent and the Energy of Alignment

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
And I automatically do things like that, I care of other people more than I care of myself.
Martina,

I hope you will also take care of yourself. I we can't preserve our container physically then we can't do the Work of cleaning out the "automatic" programs either. At least it sounds like your younger sister helps you cope some.
 

latulipenoire

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
As you seem to know, to be externally considerate is not to be nice or complacent, is to do what must be done in the right way and in the right moment. To act with this level of rightness one need first to know very well oneself and to have a great power over oneself, and second (just as G say) "a knowledge of men, an understanding of their tastes, habits, and prejudices". The solution to an interaction with a Petty tyrant not always will be to hide or run away, sometimes you will need to be firm and determined, even harsh. Others times you will need to be humble and prudent, even submissive. What will tell you what the right action is will be the context of the situation. To be externally considerate is a deliberate, well-planned strategy, not an out-of-control and impulsive emotional reaction. Nobody says that it is easy, but this seems to be the right path.
Msante, your explanation above made me think of Putin and his stance towards his israeli counterpart following the episode of the death of more than 15 russian in Syria this week:

Crocodile tears: Netanyahu tells Putin he expresses regret at loss of Russian lives

Israeli PM Netanyahu has expressed "regret" to Vladimir Putin over the downing of Russia's Il-20 plane. He pinned the blame for the incident on Syria, but added that Moscow and Tel Aviv should continue coordinating their efforts.

"Netanyahu stressed the importance of continuing coordination in the security area between Israel and Russia, which prevented many losses on the both sides over the past three years," the press service said on Tuesday, after Putin and the Israeli PM spoke by telephone.

In line with Israel's previous statements, Netanyahu blamed the Syrian military for the incident.

He promised to share all the information with Russia to assist with the investigation into the plane's downing. He added that the Israeli Air Force chief was ready to go to Moscow personally to further collaborate in relation to the incident.

The Russian Il-20 aircraft, with 15 crew members on board, was shot down by a Syrian S-200 surface-to-air missile late on Monday. Syrian air defenses were trying to repel an Israeli attack on their positions in the northwestern province of Latakia. The Russian military pinned the blame for the incident on Tel Aviv, accusing its jets of using the Russian plane for"cover" during the strikes.

The incident has heated up political tensions and raised questions as to whether relations between Russia and Israel would be impacted following the destruction of the plane and the tragic loss of life.

Earlier on Tuesday, Putin commented on the downing of the aircraft. He said that it was a tragedy, but the incident "looks like a chain of tragic circumstances, because the Israeli plane didn't shoot down our jet." Russia is to launch an investigation as well as boost security for Russian troops in Syria. Putin did not specifically detail which steps will be taken in relation to security, but said that these will be "steps that everyone will notice."
I mean, I really think that Putin is acting so strategically, inconceivably so from the standpoint of someone who ignores the Work and the concepts of external considering and stalking discussed here, that to all appearances he's acting as one more world leader being bullied by Netanyahu, meanwhile he's doing what's best for everyone involved. There's such a self-restraint and self-knowledge in him that no matter what happens he's able to act strategically. So for me this is the best example I could find of the lessons we're discussing today.
 

nobodyslave

Padawan Learner
In the present time, we seem to have an abundance of petty tyrants of all sorts. And from the little discussion above, it makes even more sense why the Cs urge us to pay close and careful attention to reality right and left; that is the reality immediately surrounding us, family, friends, co-workers, and to whatever extent we are able, to the larger reality: the world of the petty tyrants with great power and authority.

External Considering teaches us that we should do "that which makes life easy for other people and for himself. {ourselves]"

This is done from a position of knowledge and awareness: you may act civil to someone you know is a psychopath, but you do it to avoid attracting their ire; and then you avoid contact with them as much as possible. You aren't being two-faced, you are being strategic.

There are more examples that could be set out, but perhaps some of you have real life ones?
I was too busy trying to understand the petty tyrants in the larger reality, that I didn't notice those to the right and left of me. I thought I knew what External Consideration meant, I was wrong as I didn't take myself into account. I was always a "people pleaser" and avoided confrontation as much as I could. I know now that instead of drawing lines in the sand that informed others of my limitations, I drew a target on my back for those that would take advantage, and they did.

After being bullied by the new boss at work, I began reading books, that made me understand that psychopaths and narcissists were closer to home than I wanted to believe. I recognized traits in some close friends and family members, and they turned on me when I cut off their supply. After this realization, opportunities began to open up that allowed me to make real changes to my life, and I have taken those opportunities with extreme humility and gratitude. I now remain aware of those around me, and strategize when dealing with those I cut off but cannot avoid contact with.

I look back now and feel foolish for being so blind and naive, I knew things weren't right when dealing with some people, but your friends and loved ones are supposed to have your best interests, especially if they tell you constantly.....right?? Wrong!

Ignoring the quiet inner voice that was telling me something was amiss, didn't make it go away. It just made the lesson that much harder, and painful. So I still do that which makes life easier for other people, but now I include myself.
 

munaychasumaq

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
External Considering teaches us that we should do "that which makes life easy for other people and for himself. {ourselves]"

Being a server for many years i had/have to deal with many people from different parts of the world,i have used different approaches during the time and some of them very selfish and arrogant from my part.Some years ago due the "Work" i started to use the External Considering in the people around me,but a did not use it in my job :-[with the exception of children and coworkers.But some mouths ago i am using E.C. with all my customers even with those that possible could be psychopaths and
believe me the result is that in the end we all win. The psychic energy takes balance,the difficult moments of stress are even softened so to speak.But the work of stalking continues... I know the predator doesn't rest...

Thank you very much Laura for this refreshing:flowers:
 

genero81

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Being a server for many years i had/have to deal with many people from different parts of the world,i have used different approaches during the time and some of them very selfish and arrogant from my part.Some years ago due the "Work" i started to use the External Considering in the people around me,but a did not use it in my job :-[with the exception of children and coworkers.But some mouths ago i am using E.C. with all my customers even with those that possible could be psychopaths and
believe me the result is that in the end we all win.
Serving is fantastic for many things in relation to the Work. I have the opportunity to confront not only the requirement of others, but my own as well. If I take a soft approach with a sincere desire to be of service, I can almost always create a pleasant experience for all. Of course there are those who take the superior position being aloof and sometimes somewhat demeaning. But remaining professional and keeping my own ego in check, they invariably drop that particular role before meals end.
 

Corvus

Jedi Council Member
As you seem to know, to be externally considerate is not to be nice or complacent, is to do what must be done in the right way and in the right moment. To act with this level of rightness one need first to know very well oneself and to have a great power over oneself, and second (just as G say) "a knowledge of men, an understanding of their tastes, habits, and prejudices". The solution to an interaction with a Petty tyrant not always will be to hide or run away, sometimes you will need to be firm and determined, even harsh. Others times you will need to be humble and prudent, even submissive. What will tell you what the right action is will be the context of the situation.
I agree on that, but I maybe(or not) got wrong impression it comes down to avoidance and not being offensive to someone, especially in today s times when it is expanded beyond it s maximum. Yes, you should be considerate to not offend someone but if this person got it coming to them then it should be done in a way that it s purpose serves that end goal -justice and balance, if it is even posible because of that person s position and influence.

I don't think that that be so. First, a petty tyrant not necessarily has to be a psychopath. You could have a neurotic boss, narcissist parents or simply being surrounded by severely traumatized people, who can make your life very difficult. But even dealing with a psichopat, IMO to use violence (any kind) as resource should be maybe the last of the last choice (and even so I doubt that would be useful).
It does not have to be psychopath in question but I was referring to that extreme side of spectrum, and what you say it should be last option but when you re dealing with violent people that only value violence then it is a way to go, look at today s geopolitics, west vs Russia and it is just a macro scale of how it functions. Even those cases you mentioned above sometimes are not deterred by acting like grey stone and have to be told where the limit is, how, it depends on situation. And I am not talking from air but from my experience because most people are really poor bunch, psychologically, emotionally and physically and want to drain you or control you even if they do not see it like that and say they act to benefit you.

If I remember correctly the "Indians in Castaneda's book" that were exterminated were the old seers who were disconnected from reality and lost blinded by power. The new seers developed skills learning from the mistakes of the old seers that allowed them to survive and transcend their human condition (well, at least this is what Castaneda tells us).
I do not know if i remember correctly but he said new seers should at least try or die trying, and when you take in the account what Spaniards did to them something tells me the numbers were not that great, not that there is some statistic you can use also, and we know from our experience that this kind of people in most cases do not answer to anyone.
 

OutSky

The Force is Strong With This One
Remarkable stories guys.
Corvus said:
Think when it comes to external consideration that it works to certain degree, when the environment is normal to certain degree or polite. The more the environment is pathological and extreme you can throw external consideration out of the window, you can apply it but then your existence would not be of long duration. One is theory and another is reality and practice.

When it comes to psychopaths you can avoid them if your encounter is only temporary but if it is more often like in a workplace then hardly you can avoid it, the worse if you try it because if being more sensitive,(as many here are) psychopath will test you to see how you react and will sense what you are all about, and the more you are sensitive more inclined he will be to drain you or worse depending on the environment, because every sensitivity(being of different inclination) is perceived as weakness. You can run but you can not hide forever, and sometimes the more you are externally considerate the other can see it as a sign of weakness and go more and more into your personal space the more you are considerate and so there has to be limit to external consideration if you have some internal consideration or dignity and love for yourself, and have to make a stand. Those kind of pathological s know only the language of violence(be it verbal, emotional or physical) and many will only then back up.

And in extreme situations being considerate and dead do not think is very useful, but it is individual choice, and those Indians in Castaneda s book where almost all exterminated, and giving due where due is needed does not always work, more correctly it works other way around most often, injustice rules on this planet, if majority of these Indians lived enough to see it.

And there should be made clear distinction between being externally considerate and nice because some see it as same and act considerate because of naivety or fear of conflict even when that tactic does not show results, and that is one of the main reasons with ignorance and selfishness why humanity is where it is today when it comes to those souled individuals.
msante said:
As you seem to know, to be externally considerate is not to be nice or complacent, is to do what must be done in the right way and in the right moment. To act with this level of rightness one need first to know very well oneself and to have a great power over oneself, and second (just as G say) "a knowledge of men, an understanding of their tastes, habits, and prejudices". The solution to an interaction with a Petty tyrant not always will be to hide or run away, sometimes you will need to be firm and determined, even harsh. Others times you will need to be humble and prudent, even submissive. What will tell you what the right action is will be the context of the situation. To be externally considerate is a deliberate, well-planned strategy, not an out-of-control and impulsive emotional reaction. Nobody says that it is easy, but this seems to be the right path.
Indeed msante, however I endorse most of all said by Corvus, and next I’ll expand on this with my own life experience. There are different ranks of tyrants and in spite that nowadays our reality has an abundance of petty tyrants, still many persons had little experiences with them, or dealt with less lethal of them. The way to deal with them (lethal ones) that I’ve been practicing is something like this:

Castaneda said:
The object of the Warrior is, of course, to utilize whatever is necessary to stand against the Petty Tyrant, to draw the line and hold it, and - if necessary - to strategically systematically harass the Petty Tyrant until they are drained of energy, and with their last, desperate burst, they do something so stupid, so destructive, that finally, due to the forbearance of the warrior who knows the nature of the Predator, the Petty Tyrants receive their "due" - generally at their own hands. And thus the dynamic ends.
Nevertheless by now I’m still being challenged in the extreme and I don’t feel much confidence to get this over. At this point I’m literally trying to remain alive. I don’t know if I’ will make it.

After all, in retrospect, we may add that many powerful heroes, warriors, alchemists faced these tyrants throughout history and they failed. Then should a tiny alchemist like me just give up and let the quest to next life? Oh, I feel this latter option so wrong.

Undoubtedly many of us, some more others less, are living throughout the troubles caused by lethal “petty” tyrants. In fact if one goes through the literature written by those who succeeded to increase their knowledge well higher above the blind man, we realize that many of these ones fought or are fighting with tyrants to the point of exhaustion. These 3D clashes in practical terms are a gift and a curse since they are awful by their very draining aspects that tend to consume us and even may force us to quit the Work. Let’s face it, the latter situation that imbues a defeat is a disaster but not really uncommon. If we succeed, lesson learned, great you are then an expert to overcome 3D adversities and move on. But remember that as matter of fact when Castaneda asked to Dom Juan if was usual tyrants defeating the “new seers,” surprisingly Dom Juan answered something like, “off course, and in this case the defeat is total; is the end for the seer.”

Laura said:
By considering externally a man does that which makes life easy for other people and for himself. {ourselves]"
Yes I long practiced, as is my natural tendency the above consideration numerous times, but at times it doesn’t work at all, such as now. Compromising me or giving up things, attitudes, only brought even more encouragement to the tyrants, that I’ve dealt, to continue their brutality. The main issue is that in these times many “tyrants” are psychopaths who not only want their things (whatever they are), they relentlessly want also take you from your stability, take your home (in any sense) and destroy you; this is a great bonus of energy to them. Thus they study us and tempt us to do the evil/negative retribution. However though I deeply disapprove them, still I don’t feel in myself this evil or hate feeling against these “detrimental” beings. But I believe that most of the usual people quickly fall in this trap. That’s why we see wars all along this terran civilization.

Once the C’s told us that when you became completely unconcerned with yourself (so your wellbeing) then you stop wanting things, you are then truly STO, and in this moment you disappear and is transferred to a STO world. I believe this is accurate. And thus here I find my greatest contradiction. So, am I ready for this leap? Are you?

I mean, in my current state of being I sense that giving up partly or completely what I want, or simply conceding to the extern evilness (what it demands even if a little thing) is wrong. I fear that sometimes when you are compromising, actually you are covertly being induced to give up your soul and will. Do you remember this?
September 13th 2009 said:
A: Acceptance of torture is the "mark of the beast."
 

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
By considering externally a man does that which makes life easy for other people and for himself. {ourselves]"
Exactly. Sometimes, this means not taking the load of work in order to make others feel useful. If the person is guilty of their own laziness/incompetence and you don't do this, you end up threatening them!

I recently changed my job location so I have been settling in with new co-workers.
I have a co worker that was being passive aggressive which made working with him difficult. He was taking more and more work load even when we were not completed with the other projects. This really made it difficult as the work load would shift to me as he was not fully competent of what he "volunteered" for. He couldn't say no to the supervisor who had no issues with passing out more and more work, forgetting what was already on the table to do!

It was clear later that he himself was trying to show that he is a better worker than the 'new guy' (me) to the supervisor. I never cared about things like that, but as soon as that was realized, I started to play "dumb" with things in order to let him take charge of these projects.
He quickly saw how he put too much on his plate and started to manage better with letting the supervisor know that we are already swamped.

So, sometimes it's best to not disrupt the status quo in a situation because the people may identify strongly with certain roles. Unfortunately, many of us see better solutions but these solutions threaten the identification of people.

It's the same with how the anthropogenic global warming nonsense can keep going on, despite being so distant from the truth. People follow the hierarchy and unfortunately this is the way things operate here. It still bothers me in general, but I don't see a way around it until the s^&* really hits the fan and these programs get quickly dumped in favor of survival.
 

sid

Jedi
Hello all

I have been wanting to post on this thread for a while but kept getting held up with other things. Over the last few years my exposure to petty tyrants have grown immensely and that has mirrored my own personal growth. I have been under constant attack and what helped me in dealing with those attacks effectively was to keep re-reading the Castaneda and Gurdjieff material on Cass Wiki, the regular C’s sessions and forum threads. I also re-read the Wave series followed by RA material to build up my internal strength again. And, of course, all the latest recommended books which have been extremely helpful in understanding the human machine better. It’s not easy facing a petty tyrant and I understand now what Don Juan meant by depletion of vital energies when defeated by a petty tyrant. And if you are successful in overcoming a petty tyrant, the Universe throws a bigger tyrant at you. The attacks are incessant and relentless until you start recognising the patterns and develop mental strength to defend against them.
Below are some of my observations and learnings.

You see, a tyrant has spent his/her whole life conniving and manipulating others to reach a position of power and not one to be easily dethroned. Tyrants have a lot of internal chatter and debates, they have multiple strong I’s within them which are always at odds with each other. This is a mental exercise they engage in to build up talking points should they have to talk someone down or manipulate the authorities above them. Spend an hour talking to a tyrant where you disagree with even a single point they are putting across and you are going to come away fully deflated with no productive outcome from the engagement.

Tyrants feed on negative emotions hence why they also become good negotiators. Here I am referring to people who have climbed the corporate/social ladder, not the garden variety types. Since they have spent most of their life arguing and manipulating, they understand people’s pressure points. They are also good at avoiding other petty tyrants as they fear that their own pressure points may get pushed and weaknesses exposed. Getting into an argument is like going to a war for them where they want the sweet taste of victory. I have personally and repeatedly seen a tyrant walk into a negotiation meeting almost stoned and sleepy who then came alive as the arguments began. He got extremely worked up and loud blowing steam in all directions trying to talk the other party down. And I observed and spoke to him five minutes after the meeting and he was all smiles and fully rejuvenated ready for the next challenge. It was as if, his mind was not impacted at all from the episode and ready to take in more information. Or, they don’t take in all the information, only the bits that can be used again someone at a later point. A very good example of suppressed emotional centre I think.

Tyrants are excellent at faking emotions to the point of making themselves vulnerable and putting their neck out for the chop to gain favourable positions. I am talking about the real clever ones here. They can do so by playing on people’s empathy. Their target can have only small amount of empathy for they know how to maximise it towards themselves. Its like, how do you deal with a man who is hell bent on suicide?

Tyrants like to be the big guy in the room hence they would always prefer to work with people who are below them on social/corporate ladder. They would do it at the expense of great losses to a corporation as an example. Ego comes before everything else. They are already good at manipulation so, it is easy enough to explain away irrational decisions or over blown budgets or failure of departments or underperforming employees reporting to them. I have read “Thinking Fast and Slow” and I can state first hand from experience as well that when leaders of big organisations or countries are faced with tough decisions concerning tyrants, they often choose to think with system 1 and decide on emotional thinking. And I have already mentioned that tyrants are good at faking emotions to make themselves look like a victim. Hence not only they remain in their respective positions but also gain further control within the said organisation. I have seen and observed tyrants in multiple organisations who were hated and despised by over 95% of other employees including middle management and yet they continued progressing and gaining more bonuses until either they hit retirement age, or the organisation went down due to the cumulative effects of attrition from all tyrants within the said organisation.

Tyrants are good at hiding their tracks simply because most people are either average or below average in their thinking capacity at times struggling to even put 2 and 2 together. They cannot understand how the game is being played. I have seen examples where the tyrants have not even tried to hide anything and yet get away with it. Ah, there is only so much a modern-day honest and hard-working office worker can do when surrounded with so many technological distractions. Not many can kick the hornet’s nest and come away unscathed. It’s too much effort to engage your System 2 so, let’s not bother. What’s in it for me anyways!!

Try fighting a tyrant directly and you’d be worn down in no time. Eventually you would start getting anxiety attacks when dealing with them and even when confiding about this to your loved ones. This would culminate into worsening of heath, lowered self-esteem, obsessive behaviour, inability to express yourself clearly, eating disorders, hay fevers, increased common cold, flu, irritability and likely a life-threatening disease.

You see, most people think that they are genuinely good and believe there is good in others. And when such people are conversing with others, they do so with lowered defences and are open to receiving curses and attacks. This happens at a sub-conscious level. Imagine an employee performance review in an organisation where the boss is a petty tyrant. The employee will enter the meeting thinking about his/her recent achievements and would expect those to be confirmed by the boss. At this point, the employee has dropped his/her guard and there is a direct line open to the deep emotional centre which can be exploited by the boss. During the meeting, even the smallest of negative feedback will hit home like a bullet and most would come out of the meeting swearing, crying or complaining. All positive feedback would just feed our internal consideration even more. This is because most of us are fickle minded and often overrate ourselves in our abilities. And we want our peers and especially bosses to constantly praise us for those overstated abilities. Our whole ego is built on this like a giant sandcastle on a beach ready to be washed away by the next high tide. And that tide can come anytime unexpectedly.

Why do we need a self-reinforcement of our positive traits? Is it that important in the grand scheme of things when everything around us is an illusion? Make one wonder!

Well, so, how do you deal with a petty tyrant?

Do what Don Juan says. Learn the art of Stalking. Never ever speak your mind in the presence of petty tyrant. A dialogue taken from the movie, Godfather – “Never let anyone know what you are thinking”. You see, everything that you say or even think can be used against you at the most inappropriate time and place. When in a conversation with a petty tyrant, let him/her talk and give feedback but never tell them what you are thinking or give feedback to them about their behaviour. They are looking for ammunition against you at a sub-conscious level hence don’t give it to them on a silver platter. They may not even know or realise this. Their mind is not theirs but the predator’s mind looking for food. You should be striving to deprive them of their food.

Practice astute observation of petty tyrant’s behaviour and your own too. “Forbearance and control” as Don Juan says. When in proximity of tyrants, observe their body actions, mannerisms, language, tone and choice of words. You will observe that they contradict themselves every few minutes. This is their internal chatter coming out. They have a selection of words which are used inter-changeably to confound the listeners. You will notice how they use those words to push emotional buttons in other people at specific junctures. You will also begin to see that most of those people including yourself have a limited and specific set of emotional reactions emanating from System 1 thinking and are effectively machines as Gurdjieff describes us. Once you realise this, you will laugh on everyone and your mechanical suffering. You can thank the petty tyrant silently in your mind for this realisation.

If you need to achieve something which requires support and approval from the petty tyrant, never present that as the best and final solution to the problem you are trying to solve. Present multiple options and covertly present your hidden choice as a solution to tyrant’s pain points. Show full support to his/her decision-making process and watch him miraculously pick the option you wanted all along with full backing. The devil is in the detail and depends on the language and tone you would employ. This comes with experience of observation and learning emotional detachment. Do not be emotionally attached to your day to day work in an organisation. It is simply a means to put a roof above your head, food on the table, clothes to wear, money to buy books and pay for the internet to read Sott and Cass forum every day. Your spiritual progress is going to come from the latter not former. It doesn’t matter if you have a solution to save the organisation millions of dollars, all you’d be doing is helping further the STS control system and feeding your internal consideration. The petty tyrant will have none of it as it wasn’t his/her idea. Few months later, he/she would do the same and get his/her kudos and bonuses whilst you sulk away in your tiny office with no windows complaining about the monotony of boring life.

Understand this statement, “You incarnated on Earth to be a slave to the STS system willingly so as to create enough strife for yourself to accelerate the learning of lessons.” Keep reminding yourself of this every day and eternal peace will come to you eventually. Also thank your STS overlords for giving you the opportunity.

Since most organisations are STS oriented, you might as well “Do what the Romans do when in Rome”. Learn to play the game without stepping on someone – it’s doable. The way to bring down a tyrant is to gain favour from an even bigger tyrant. Same as the Don Juan’s slave driver story. Once the bigger tyrant has your back, start pegging away at your tormentor bit by bit. The trick is to enjoy whatever suffering you are going to endure as well as the one your tyrant will bring upon himself/herself due to the folly of his/her actions. Never speak against the tyrant or raise your tone of voice in a meeting. Make it a boring affair and string lengthy conversations about pointless issues. Sometimes a tyrant would setup a meeting to grind an axe or talk you down on something that upset him/her. Your conversation about pointless issues will change the theme of the meeting and tire out the tyrant. The issue may still be brought up but often very late and the tyrant would be more worried about next meeting. Keep a record of every action and decision made by the tyrant which has costed the organisation. A time will come when you’d need to retell this in two minutes to a higher authority to influence decisions to your benefit. Information is power so, learn to use it properly when the time is right.

During this process, you’d come to so many realisations. The whole thinking process changes, it’s like you are reborn man. You finally being to let go of limiting emotions. You learn to not be driven by your empathy. All your self-importance and sacred cows are massacred piece by piece which is fantastic. You would conclude that you are not trying to dethrone the tyrants but decode their machine and then use them against themselves. Tyrants who are not complete psychopaths are suckers for pity and would show empathy to the right kind of victim. Use the pity ploy to gain their favour. Once you have complete control of the relationship, the tyrant would simply fall at his own sword. As RA says, it was decided in the current Universe by the Logos that the process of polarising to STO or STS can be accelerated by putting them together on sub-logi such as Earth whilst enforcing the veil. In such setting, an individual internalises a learning much faster and hence able to choose a polarity with strong decisiveness and no second thoughts of turning the other way. And for that, we must be thankful to the beings or entities who have decided to take the path of STS. They have a long road ahead of them where they must eventually choose the path of STO to progress further.

Taken from Cass Wiki -
The virtues of the warrior are control, discipline, forbearance, timing and will. These relate to proper use of attention and energy. The discipline is not mechanically following any fixed routine, it is the presence of mind needed to face impossible odds, that which is out of the ordinary. Forbearance is the capacity to wait, not to be overrun by emotion or be worn out by stress or fatigue. Timing is the recognition of the opportunity, the "cubic centimetre of chance," as Castaneda puts it. Control is the capacity not to react mechanically, to observe the self under the most demanding circumstances, without fear or resentment and with presence of mind.
These virtues are forged and tested in the encounter with the 'petty tyrant'. (See the article of this name for more.) Overcoming the petty tyrant is not the goal of warriorship but it is a step on the way, a test. The warrior does not fight to claim the petty tyrant's position for himself but for self-perfection and freedom seen as abstract goals separate from any specific self-interest. If the warrior by defeating a petty tyrant may bring freedom to others, this is a windfall benefit, engaging every petty tyrant for the purpose of making a better world is not the warrior's goal, the warrior has greater adversaries.
Hope this was helpful. The fight is never ending and it’s a fight for our mind!!
Thank you Laura and the crew for dedicating your life to uncovering so much and debugging the universe. Who know what else we may learn in upcoming times.
 

Konstantin

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I have some examples of External Consideration on my mind.

A few years ago when I became FOTCM member I didn't know what my family will think about that. I didn't know if I should tell someone. In moments like that when you are excited you have the urge to tell someone, to talk about it.
I knew that they have a lot of prejudice and generally people here are very religious and everything that goes out of their personal religious standards will look to them as a big sin.

So I read the books ( e-books) on Pc, on a tablet, I start to buy supplements, iodine and generally tried to be with most of the things that were discussed and tried by the members of this forum. to say it short and clear, to do the "work" or at least to try to do it.

And I found myself in situation where They started to ask me what Am I reading all the time and what am I doing on that forum.
I could not mention the C`s for example because people will think that It some kind of a cult probably or some kind of an organization that wants just to play with your mind.

In order to make my life easier and continue with the work, and in the same time help my friends and family with their prejudices I just never talk about this forum, and I have never mentioned the Cs.
( and the situation will probably stay like that for a long time as it looks to me from this standpoint).

I know how will that look in their minds. Ouja board and all that. That is a joke for them that they were doing in their childhood.

This way I protected myself from nasty questions and qualifications and I am externally considerate toward them because their belief system is now allowing them to accept that. In the same time, I am protecting this forum and this community from external attacks from people who are not in line with this.
There were situations when I could use some knowledge to help someone and if they would ask me from where I know that my answer is that I read it in a book. This is more natural for them and they can accept it.


As I mentioned people are very religious here. As I was growing as a person and as I was learning I come in the situation when I realized that Jesus is just an imaginary character, and generally how the mainstream organized religion is just a big scam. My whole life for me something was not right with the story of Jesus. I mean, It sounded to me like some tv story and people were believing in that with all their hearts. I always knew that something is not right. But I couldn't say that loudly because I knew what will people think about me.

For holidays my family and friends usually go to church to light a candle and to say a quick prayer silently in their minds.
For a few times we have some conversations about religion and on a few occasions, I came with the idea that Jesus is probably an Imaginative character and that lot of things in the Christianity as we know it is not true.

They looked me astonished and they told me not to speak such a thing because God will punish me for that. I realized that it is too much for them and I am keeping my mouth closed from that moment about this subject. From time to time when a conversation is going that way I am trying to listen more and to talk less and if I have to say something It is in a line with other people believes.

I do go to the church with them and I am lighting a candles when they did not because I believe that God will save me or as people say here God will give me a good health, but because I am externally considerate toward them and by doing that I could keep that nice bond between me and my friends and family. So, in the end, everybody is happy

This way I am externally considerable because I am helping myself to continue in my learning path and in the same time I try not to be seen from my family and friends as a black sheep or a crazy person who does not know what is talking about.

These are the situations that came to my mind while I was writing this post.

Thank you, Laura, for starting this thread.
 

Joe

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I do go to the church with them and I am lighting a candles when they did not because I believe that God will save me or as people say here God will give me a good health, but because I am externally considerate toward them and by doing that I could keep that nice bond between me and my friends and family. So, in the end, everybody is happy
Good example of external considering Konstantin. Depending on your own ideas about it, next time you go to church to light a candle to ask "Jesus" for something, maybe you could think of it as sending a message to the other JC, or just musing on that idea and how history is so terribly distorted. I like lighting candles in churches.
 

solarmind

Dagobah Resident
speaking about Castaneda, a few years ago, when I opened one of his books and started to read them, I literary had a feeling that book is "reading" me ... it was a very intimate experience ... through my process of reading Castaneda, it created in me a certain way of looking at the world around me ...
 

Laura

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For majority of young spirit their family will provide the most learning experience until they are mature enough to do their mission/life calling. If you have distortion/weakness that you are working on this reincarnation I can guarantee you that your immediate family will provoke you to be the worst you can be until you resolve those issues. Remember hell isn't a place out there somewhere but inside of you due to your imbalance. Before you enter this reincarnation you basically have a laid out scenario of your life and task to solves including parents, spouse, job, etc. Your parents will provoke a lot of your weakness but if you resolve those problems it won't imprint on you as life goes on (if you suppress them then become unconscious mind). Example if you are a doormat probably you will get 2 self center bullies for parents until you learned to stand up for your self. Remember the most basic spiritual law is self responsibility so you can't keep on blaming all the bad things that happened to you to others evil players in the game of life (call it partners in learning). You will only be assigned great parental spirit to guide you once your soul are reasonable develop enough to do mission in this world (as example in mastery of sto). Your spouse probably teach you intimacy (body, mind and spirit) so maybe you should learn to readjust to your spouse emotional frequency also intellectually (discuss ideas on deeper level). Adjusting your energy level is prerequisite to sto being as you learn to understand others. Your children or pets can teach you unconditional love. The first time you hold your baby most parents learn responsibility and to really give for the first time. Everything that happen to you you summon it to provide lesson when the time is right. You will make a lot of mistakes but live and learn. Inner balance is gained as a result of your abilities to handle life adversity in non destructive way (numerous re balancing too). In the beginning you may seems to be very angry at the world but as you progress you learn that this world is gigantic classroom full of spirit still learning some more advance than others (who may choose different alignment sto/sts) so don't be upset if some toddler can't do rocket science or calculus. The real human sickness is the failure to use your full potential to create good life. As you hold back your potential to expand, to make better conditions, to experience deeper feelings of delight in every way, you continue a vicious circle.
All of the above is a rather simplistic, standard New Age take on spiritual realities that is partly right, partly wrong and leaves out a LOT.

Have you read The Wave or Secret History? There's a whole lot more going on in the realms of existence than this little essay accounts for.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
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Understand this statement, “You incarnated on Earth to be a slave to the STS system willingly so as to create enough strife for yourself to accelerate the learning of lessons.” Keep reminding yourself of this every day and eternal peace will come to you eventually. Also thank your STS overlords for giving you the opportunity.
sid,

Is the above quote some paraphrase or your own conclusion of the "terror of the situation" that Gurdjief talks about? I think many of your ideas sound like lessons personally learned and deserve at least a "like". I just get confused when quotes are used without reference.

On being "slaves" to an STS system I think we are trying to escape as most slaves don't enjoy being slaves even to benevolent masters eventually.

On the "Terror of the situation" there is a good SOTT Radio show transcription that talks about Gurdjief

Behind the Headlines: Who was Georges Gurdjieff? Interview with William Patrick Patterson
WPP: Who can see into the future really? But it certainly doesn't look good. The question for each individual; whether there's a large war or not, there's nothing I can do about it. As Ouspensky said: 'they are big creatures.' But what I can do is Work on myself to become more and more available for higher energies and to develop a kesdjan body; some people call it an astral body but it's a little more than that; and eventually a soul.

So whether the world will end with us fighting with sticks and stones or not, I can't tell, and I can't influence, but I can influence my world and develop myself no matter what is happening, and I think that should be the basis for everyone. And in doing that, you receive higher and higher energies and transmit them, and if enough people come to doing that, it will certainly have an influence. Whether it has an influence large enough to avert our suggestibility for reciprocal destruction; I don't know. I hope so.

In 'All and Everything', Gurdjieff talks about the "terror of the situation" and he says if this property, this need to periodically destroy each other's existence is to disappear, then it will be with Time alone; and Time is a capital T; thanks, either to the guidance of a certain being with very high reason to certain exceptional cosmic events. He says no more than that, but that's perhaps reason for not rejoicing but for praying and hoping.

Laura: Yes, indeed.
 

T.C.

The Living Force
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Think when it comes to external consideration that it works to certain degree, when the environment is normal to certain degree or polite. The more the environment is pathological and extreme you can throw external consideration out of the window, you can apply it but then your existence would not be of long duration. One is theory and another is reality and practice.
That obviously depends on how we define external considering, though. Whatever it is that you are calling external considering is not what we mean when we're using the term in a Work context. Your statement above seems to miss the whole point of Laura's opening post.

The point is, the more pathological our environment is, the more we need to be externally considerate in order to forge ourselves into something that is capable of operating in such an environment. Don Juan's attributes of warriorship: Control, Discipline, Timing, Forebearance and Will are the very things we need to develop in ourselves and we develop them through external considering - figuring out how to interact with other people (whether they're tyrannical or not) in the way that will work out best for us and best for them. What you say below is perfectly compatible with an 'existence of long duration in an extreme and pathological environment', essential for it, actually.

Because...

...there should be made clear distinction between being externally considerate and nice because some see it as same and act considerate because of naivety or fear of conflict even when that tactic does not show results, and that is one of the main reasons with ignorance and selfishness why humanity is where it is today...
Exactly. Another way of saying this is that the reason why the world is in such a mess is because people are afraid to do anything about it from fear, ignorance, selfishness. Not very warrior-like; only considering inner-ly, not externally. I think the biggest pitfall for people who are trying to be externally considerate is that they see it as 'not rocking the boat', not drawing attention to themselves, not bring active but reacting instead. But sometimes with a petty tyrant, becoming the active party, bringing up the issue, refusing to budge, standing your ground, are what is needed. Sometimes not; just depends on each situation.

When Laura asks for examples of external considering, I think anyone who ever read Gurdjieff and thought about it would have been trying to be externally considerate at all times. We're constantly interacting with other people, and I can't imagine why anyone would take their eye off the ball and not try to be externally considerate.

Of course, there's a difference between 'trying' and 'being'. One reason external considering is so difficult is because you have to think a lot, and that takes energy. And so, what often happens is that we will be faced with a person or a scenario and if we're watching ourselves, we'll see that 'plan A' would be selfish and not at all considerate. So we think a little bit, and as soon as we come up with a 'plan B' that seems less selfish, we'll go with that. But there's often plan C, plan D, maybe dozens of plans that are better, if we just put in the effort to think about it a bit more.

It requires the ability to put oneself in another's shoes, to assess them on as many levels as you can to determine who they are and what they're about, to try and determine what they're aiming at, to try to understand what it is that they're really asking for. Sometimes, they might just be asking to drain your energy. Well, we don't want that, right? So with certain people, we would want to get away from them as quickly and easily as possible. But with others, the situation we are in with them might require that we do give up some energy in the short-term, so as not to cause a much bigger energy drainage further down the road.

I had the pleasure I staying with an old friend of my mum's recently who I knew when I was a small child, but hadn't really seen for many years. It turned out that she liked to talk - A LOT. I mean, you'd mention one topic (I brought up the local sports stadium, for example) and she would then go off for fifteen minutes: who plays there now; who doesn't play there now, and why; where the previous team has gone; concerts they've had there; the political situation between the local authorities, sports authorities, and how there's a deadlock and the community are missing out; how teams won't play there because the facilities aren't as good... I could go on, as she would.

But this was every single interaction, every moment you're in the house. It's draining, it's mundane, the way she would explain anything she was talking about made it mundane and boring. She would go all around the houses, including many friends and relatives of hers, recounting unnecessary details about each single experience.

But I was only going to be seeing her for four days. Now maybe if for some reason I'd found myself in the situation of having to live with her, I might act differently, but instead of risking offending her by cutting her off, getting up and walking off, telling her I don't have time to talk, and then being stuck in a house with a frosty atmosphere, I sat there, patiently listening, trying my best not to allow my mind to wander off and dissociate (because that's the effect she would have), sip my drink, smoke cigarettes, and practice discipline, forbearance, etc.

I got to Work on myself, and it cost me energy to do it. But if I'd been impatient and egotistical, it could have been a bad situation.

Knowing myself, I know I find it more difficult to be externally considerate when I'm tired, or hungry or something like that. But, I could give many examples of when I was trying to externally consider from any day over the last week. Yesterday morning, I was driving down a narrow, busy, one-way street with cars parked either side and the driver in front of me stopped just after a space and began to parallel park into it. They were taking it slow and steady, and so I just stayed a good way behind them so as to not put any pressure on them at all and give them as much time as they needed. That way, they get to perform the manoeuvre at their own pace, and I would think that would end up being the fastest way they could do it - so it's best for them and best for me, because I get past sooner. Now, of course, there was a part inside me that really wanted to drive up much closer so as to put the pressure on and get them out of the way sooner, and someone used to habitually acting on their 'criminal/predator's mind' might feel perfectly justified in doing that - because it does make a kind of sense. But I just played the statistics: if I was in this situation ten times, I think they'd get parked faster more times if I just stay back and give them room.

So, some situations are simpler than others. The more complex they are, the more difficult it is to determine what the best course of action will be. And since I am not an omnipotent genius, I have found that unfortunately, I have to take a trial and error approach. That means often doing the wrong thing and having to learn from it. But it's the observation of the result of my actions and the analysis of how I could have done it better that matters more in the end. At the moment, I'm really trying to learn how to speak my mind without coming across as a jerk. Being honest with people in the right way, trying to figure out when to be brief and get straight to the point, or when to sugar-coat it a little, or even when not to talk at all. Every time I try it, and observe the result, there's always things I learn and take away and try to remember so that next time I'm in a similar situation, I can try to do it better.
 
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