Stuart Wilde?

johnw said:
I have read all of Stuart's books and found them an enjoyable and entertaining read.
The thing that stood out to me most was to be open to change, laugh and enjoy your existence, your power is yours so use it, don't abuse it.

One important point I picked up which wasn't put into print but that seemed to stand out to me was not to over analyze things-simplicity is a vital key.

We so often confuse ourselves and each other with drawn out theories, inturn being lead up paths which really need not be taken............................mind you sometimes those very paths do open some of us to unexpected surprises!
Hi John. Welcome to the forum.

As you read, you may discover that our thnking is quite a bit different from what you have outlined above.

Open to change - Certainly.

Laugh and enjoy your existence - Well, it all depends on the details, on what you mean by this. If it means turning your back on the horrors of the world and the terror of the situation that we are facing, then, no, not at all. If it means learning to confront the petty tyrants around you, and through that process, being able to face the terror of the world without flinching, then... maybe. I am able to laugh and enjoy my existence, but that is closely coupled with our work and facing the horrific realities of our planet day in and day out, something that does not make me laugh or enjoy being here. The suffering around us is immense.

Your power is yours... - What power? How does one use this power? It is too vague to know what you mean.

Not to over-analyze things - You'll find that here we analyze things over and over! It is part of the process of discerning the differences between the upward path of creation and the downward path of entropy. The further you go along the path, the more subtle are the differences and the clues. But you might say there is a mixture of simplicity and hard analysis. After one has learned a lesson, really learned it, then it is simple to see the programme. But it is still necessary to work on those you don't yet understand.

Theories and paths - Yes, many people get caught up in theories and build wonderful mental worlds and explanatory structures in their minds in which they seek refuge. These theories are divorced from the reality they attempt to explain, becoming rather examples of wishful thinking of how the world is. But we also need theories, or working hypotheses, to help us understand the world around us. However, we must remain open and ready to change our hypotheses when new data comes our way.

We learn from our mistakes, but we can also learn from the mistakes of others. That is the importance of a network - to benefit from the experience of others who are going in the same direction as we are. The network also helps us see ourselves and our programmes.
 
henry said:
johnw said:
I have read all of Stuart's books and found them an enjoyable and entertaining read.
The thing that stood out to me most was to be open to change, laugh and enjoy your existence, your power is yours so use it, don't abuse it.

One important point I picked up which wasn't put into print but that seemed to stand out to me was not to over analyze things-simplicity is a vital key.

We so often confuse ourselves and each other with drawn out theories, inturn being lead up paths which really need not be taken............................mind you sometimes those very paths do open some of us to unexpected surprises!
Hi John. Welcome to the forum.

As you read, you may discover that our thnking is quite a bit different from what you have outlined above.

Open to change - Certainly.

Laugh and enjoy your existence - Well, it all depends on the details, on what you mean by this. If it means turning your back on the horrors of the world and the terror of the situation that we are facing, then, no, not at all. If it means learning to confront the petty tyrants around you, and through that process, being able to face the terror of the world without flinching, then... maybe. I am able to laugh and enjoy my existence, but that is closely coupled with our work and facing the horrific realities of our planet day in and day out, something that does not make me laugh or enjoy being here. The suffering around us is immense.

Your power is yours... - What power? How does one use this power? It is too vague to know what you mean.

Not to over-analyze things - You'll find that here we analyze things over and over! It is part of the process of discerning the differences between the upward path of creation and the downward path of entropy. The further you go along the path, the more subtle are the differences and the clues. But you might say there is a mixture of simplicity and hard analysis. After one has learned a lesson, really learned it, then it is simple to see the programme. But it is still necessary to work on those you don't yet understand.

Theories and paths - Yes, many people get caught up in theories and build wonderful mental worlds and explanatory structures in their minds in which they seek refuge. These theories are divorced from the reality they attempt to explain, becoming rather examples of wishful thinking of how the world is. But we also need theories, or working hypotheses, to help us understand the world around us. However, we must remain open and ready to change our hypotheses when new data comes our way.

We learn from our mistakes, but we can also learn from the mistakes of others. That is the importance of a network - to benefit from the experience of others who are going in the same direction as we are. The network also helps us see ourselves and our programmes.
Hi Henry, and thanks for the welcome and words of wisdom........... much appreciated.

And no I do not turn my back on the 'horrors' of the world, although 12 years ago I did and lived on the edge of a beautiful forest. I grew my own food and lived very peacefully wandering the bush many many times in contemplation. After awhile I realized that what was happening was 'still' happening so back I trundled to the world of machines and such and dived back in for another swim so to speak.

The power I mentioned was more so referring to the unseen knowing as it were that we seemingly have no 'control' over. Sorry for my vagueness.
I didn't mean 'my' power, as I see myself as but a part of grand play. Together we all create the whole so to speak.
You mentioned Change, to me one of the gifts of this great illusion and experience.

You said: 'After one has learned a lesson, really learned it, then it is simple to see the programme. But it is still necessary to work on those you don't yet understand.'

Well put, and its seems that when you fool yourself into thinking that you are nearing an end, another process pops up and says 'gidday mate' (I'm Australian LOL)........... and off you go again soaking up theories and such. Expanding, growing, becoming...........................until you've worked or worn that one out, only to try on another.

I look forward to yours and everybody elses feedback in the future (although time is but an illusion! wink wink)
 
Hi there, I'm new here...thank you for having me. What a pretty website! Love all the shades of blue.

While googling Stuart Wilde this evening I came upon your website discussion on his teachings. Wow. It looks like I could really benefit~ Seems like an intellectual bunch in a way, searching for answers and analyzing the "truth" or at least trying to find it etc. I'm like that too!

Honestly, I was a little turned off by the drug induced experiences as I am rather conservative and while I experimented with mushrooms, LSD, Ectsacy etc. as a child I somehow felt these were just illusions, not the truth because truth was not outside,,not a substance to help you see better. I thought all good things were within.

Anyway, I did end up finding a book one day~ not long ago called Sixth Sense, by Stuart W. Lets just say the "mirror world" and "morph" was way beyond my comprehension at the time. I was more trying to learn how to develop certain parts of myself and be stronger.

Looking back now I see it as just wanting to be whole, part of the shadow..as I've always felt differnt and weird, as a girl I was a pretty nerd in a way. Never fit in etc, no backbone just a cute lil jelly fish roaming through life pulling things to it. It's been hellish in a way because I never felt I belonged to anything. Not even family. Family to me meant friends who understood me--sorta. I was poor growing up.

So then I landed into this aristocratic life in my early twenties, married a potentially prominent person. we had children . And while his education is to the top, JD, double majors, articles in the WSJ, mine is an 8th grade dropout, haha. Why did he marry me? Energy and good looks! And karma etc played into this I feel~

Ok back to topic. Stuart helped me firstly to see a great power. Soon, after reading Sixth Sense, I was etherically climbing rooftops and hanging out with the pigeons at first. Then my little body was soaring to a star looking at the earth below..how cool. I kept going getting my mind to go along, (and my mind is strong and analytical...tripple virgo big time)

I put the book away for a time and started living my life in the more here and now. Raising children, supporting a busy husband..then started accumulating things. Watches, big furniture, gardeners, nannies..I started thinking of status and how I could grow more of it, and I did...and continue to do so. and how miserable that chain of life can be,,,

Now its differnt though because I realized how sad I had become and empty. The more stuff you've got, the more complicated a life. I went to psychics,,,I went to a shaman,,,I went to an acupuntrist.\\ they never could tell me. THey didn't know or they were witholding thier perceptions..

But in that empty feeling of growing wealth I understood thy Taoist roots and a book I was given in 1994. The Tao of InnerPeace by Diane Dreher.

The less I care about money, the more creativity comes and the better more authenic being I am, the more gifts are bestowed.

Please try not to knock Stuart when he's helped so many people. I;d rather learn from a reformed dark person than a "sqeeky clean" person, as there is more hidden knowlege there.

As far as the Morph, I've seen it...not on drugs.// it;s beautiful and humbling. It's there if you try, if you are kind, generous and gratfeul and want to be a better person you will see it. However, If you are endlessly trying to pose and pretend to be spititual it will evade you.

With Love,
 
ohlove said:
Please try not to knock Stuart when he's helped so many people.
Could you quote specifically where you feel Wilde has been "knocked" here?

And what exactly are your specifications for someone being "helped"? Does that mean that people are happier because of Wilde? So what, the world is burning. We do not need someone to give us happiness. We need truth.
 
Quote': Believing that one source contains all knowledge is contradicting reality. If the concept was the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge provides all knowledge, then one is being deceived, because no one particular source can provide all knowledge. Therefore, when one believes in the deception, one has now trapped oneself within parameters of limitation. And, forevermore, the human race, will be poisoned by the very same problem which is reflected in several different ways: one is always seeking the truth through one pathway or religion, instead of seeking it through a myriad of pathways; and also believing in simplistic answers to very complex issues and questions".

If your 'world is burning', does that mean mine is as well?......................maybe, maybe not!

"We need truth', and indeed we have truth.................each unto there own.

We are, I am, All Is.........................................'argue for your limitations and they are yours'.
 
johnw said:
Quote': Believing that one source contains all knowledge is contradicting reality. If the concept was the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge provides all knowledge, then one is being deceived, because no one particular source can provide all knowledge. Therefore, when one believes in the deception, one has now trapped oneself within parameters of limitation. And, forevermore, the human race, will be poisoned by the very same problem which is reflected in several different ways: one is always seeking the truth through one pathway or religion, instead of seeking it through a myriad of pathways; and also believing in simplistic answers to very complex issues and questions".
In what context do you bring this up?


johnw said:
If your 'world is burning', does that mean mine is as well?......................maybe, maybe not!
If you think it isn't, then you aren't paying attention. The world is on fire - wake up.


johnw said:
"We need truth', and indeed we have truth.................each unto there own.
Actually, truth in the context in which Beau brings it up is objective truth - the real, objective truth of our reality and our condition - it is not a subjective 'each unto their own'. Do you understand the difference?


johnw said:
We are, I am, All Is.........................................'argue for your limitations and they are yours'.
Apologies, but, again, in what context do you bring this up - I'm having trouble following your point.
 
beau said:
And what exactly are your specifications for someone being "helped"? Does that mean that people are happier because of Wilde? So what, the world is burning. We do not need someone to give us happiness. We need truth.
Beau's point is spot on. We often see the association of truth and even love with happiness or inner peace in the New Age community. The tactic used is conversive thinking, which is the most common used by psychological deviants and their victims to spread their message. It takes a value and twists it to mean something else, often an opposing value. This is how people can seek happiness and feel at peace while their fellow man is being starved, tortured, and murdered. I wonder how many will continue to ignore this reality - until it lands on their own doorstep?
 
Could you quote specifically where you feel Wilde has been "knocked" here?
I'm sorry, this place seems for fighting, debating and all that stuff I left long ago. Beau, why are you asking me to point someone out and do quotes. I browsed this sight today, i felt dizzy.

Anyway, it just saddens me when others discredit a person, or a theory, a religion for example with no personal basis. and please don;t ask me to show you were someone did that, ok?

And what exactly are your specifications for someone being "helped"? Does that mean that people are happier because of Wilde? So what, the world is burning. We do not need someone to give us happiness. We need truth.
Yes, we sure do need the truth. It's wonderful you are seeking it, with such vigor. sincerely, more people like you are needed~ I wonder if you could be kind and gentle and still seek it..the truth.

In reference to "helped", I can speak for myself, of course as this is a personal thing in a way. But I do know Stuart has written maybe 15 or 16 books, sells out his seminars and events around the world etc. I didn't say happier, but it did make happiness available once I changed a few perspectives and healed some internal things.

I hope this makes things clearer~
With Love,
 
ohlove said:
Could you quote specifically where you feel Wilde has been "knocked" here?
I'm sorry, this place seems for fighting, debating and all that stuff I left long ago. Beau, why are you asking me to point someone out and do quotes. I browsed this sight today, i felt dizzy.
This place is not for 'fighting or debating' - it is for approaching objective truth - which means it is not for dream filled sleep of soft fluffy pillows of love and light. Your sense of 'fighting' is, most probably, merely your predator feeling threatened - it has such a lovely hold on you, with your 'love' and your 'happiness' - all dream-filled sleep while your world burns around you and you never even smell the smoke, much less feel the heat of the flames.

ohlove said:
Anyway, it just saddens me when others discredit a person, or a theory, a religion for example with no personal basis. and please don;t ask me to show you were someone did that, ok?
Does it sadden you when 'others discredit' a person who deserves it? What about Hitler - does it sadden you when people discredit him? And, apologies, but, if you state that this forum has discredited someone, as you did in your initial post, then you will be asked to show when it occurred - this is called 'data' - or offering information instead of opinion. Apologies if this upsets your sensibilities, but this forum is not for opinions.

ohlove said:
Yes, we sure do need the truth. It's wonderful you are seeking it, with such vigor. sincerely, more people like you are needed~ I wonder if you could be kind and gentle and still seek it..the truth.
Fascinating. What do you mean by 'kind and gentle'? Do you mean allowing lies to stand so as to not offend anyone? I'm just wondering how that serves the truth?

ohlove said:
In reference to "helped", I can speak for myself, of course as this is a personal thing in a way. But I do know Stuart has written maybe 15 or 16 books, sells out his seminars and events around the world etc. I didn't say happier, but it did make happiness available once I changed a few perspectives and healed some internal things.
Again, apologies, because I sense that you will not take this well, but why would selling out seminars to a sleeping populace be indicative of helping anyone? Why would writing 15 or 16 books that help the populace sleep more soundly, and thus, be better food, objectively help anyone? I realize these questions sound harsh to your sleeping ears, but, perhaps, if you start to consider them, you might stir a little. Also, a review of the basis of this forum might help you understand why you've met such resistance to your posts. fwiw.
 
Sleep? I'm awake here, listening to you and reading and taking it all in, forgive me I'm still finding my way around. These are my personal perceptions, what I'm feeling here. It feels sort of contentious, like some are looking for a fight.

Hitler..I don't think of him much, should I? I don't know much about him personally so dont' care if someone discredits him. Was Hitler writing books to help people become less troubled?

You seem hysterical the way you write . maybe you are frustrated with people like me who won't seem to listen? I'm sorry, but you have to tell what you would like people to see, or hear specifically. Data please!

Also, what do you do personally, to ensure people are more awake and less sleeping? Do you stomp your feet and hope if you yell louder they will get it? Is this method ever effective?

Anyway, I keep hearing loud & clear, the world is burning, but what exactly does this mean? Are you referring to greenhouse gas, global warming the rainforrest, the war in the middle-east, gang violence? And what does any of this have to do with Stuart's books and philosophies?

Thank you and with love,
 
Oh love, your posts seem to be quite vague.
Ohlove said:
Sleep? I'm awake here, listening to you and reading and taking it all in, forgive me I'm still finding my way around. These are my personal perceptions, what I'm feeling here. It feels sort of contentious, like some are looking for a fight.
Sorry, Ohlove, but i'm afraid this forum is not interested in investing time and efforts of its members in discovering of 'what' do you or anybody 'feels here'. And i think Anart was not 'loking for a fight' in any way as you percieved it, but was pointing to you repeatedly that this forum is not about picking a fight or debating, but for approaching objective truth about our world and ourselves. Did you read the forum rules? Did you understand the forum rules? Could you please write what is the purpose/s of your staying here? So far, your posts seem to me very vague and emotionally charged, twisting and distorting the meaning of what Anart have actually said to you. Please, note, this site is not for anybody's opinions or discussing anybody's feelings, it's a joint effort of the group to approaching the objective truth about our reality.
 
Ohlove said:
I'm sorry, but you have to tell what you would like people to see, or hear specifically. Data please!
Actually NO, we don't have to do anything. You want data? There are 5948 topics here covering hell lot of subjects, ideas, problems, solutions, etc - so, be our guest.

Ohlove said:
I wonder if you could be kind and gentle and still seek it..the truth.
What you are perceiving as lack of kindness is in fact called "directness". We cut through the crap and get straight to the point. I know it feels strange, uncomfortable, even hostile sometimes - it's partly because people in general DO NOT get straight to the point. They beat around the bush in their personal relations with spouses and friends, in their discussions, in their thinking, in their work. They lull each other in sleep, treading lighly to avoid ANY discomfort and doubt. Sure, they may be regarded as nice and gentle, but their kindness and gentleness is completely artificial - in other words - their nice appearance and conduct are LIES. And you won't find much market for this particular commodity here.
 
Ohlove, as has been mentioned, you need to read the rules of this forum. There you will find that our work is closely tied to the work of Gurdjieff, Mouravieff, Castaneda and the Sufi Shaykh, Ibn al-Arabi. Also, the fact is, these concepts are well represented in the work of several modern psychologists such as Martha Stout, Barbara Hort, Elan Goulomb, and particularly in Dabrowski's theories of positive disintegration.

As it happens, this work is quite similar to the most ancient traditions of Shamanic descent and ascent, the wisdom of the Mother Goddess, esoteric Christianity, the understanding that humankind possessed before the "fall." It is aimed at restoring man to his true estate before the "lie" entered in - the lie that seems to be being perpetrated by Stuart Wilde, et al.

For example, JohnW wrote:

One important point I picked up which wasn't put into print but that seemed to stand out to me was not to over analyze things-simplicity is a vital key.
This is one of the lies of the psychopathic "god" who took over our world over 6,000 years ago. It is reminiscent of a passage from Faust by Goethe, where the devil says to himself after leaving a prospective victim:

Contempt your capacity to think,
Which is man's greatest power;
Welcome misty things and sorcery
And the spirit of illusion,
Then I shall get you surely enough...
JohnW said:
We so often confuse ourselves and each other with drawn out theories, inturn being lead up paths which really need not be taken.
We aren't talking about theories here, we are talking about facts, data from confirmed ancient traditions long hidden and confirmed by modern psychology. Stuart Wilde, on the other hand, is the one who seems to be propagating theories which lead up paths that need not be taken except by the dissociated and delusional.

JohnW said:
I also have a short DVD speech of his he did in the 80's (judging by the hairstyles!LOL) which is quite interesting as he speaks of a certain 'Group' so to speak that has purposely 'set up' a system so as to 'trick' us and allow us, through our free will to give our power away mindlessly by chasing illusions etc.
Strikes me that Stuart Wilde, in the manner of the true psychopath, is accusing others of what he does himself. Because certainly, as has been presented here, Wilde's ideas are a system designed to trick and cause people to give up their power mindlessly by chasing illusions.

This particular view of the world that Wilde is promoting happens to be the same one taken by those individuals who are destroying our planet. Allow me to recall to mind something that Justin Raimondo wrote back in 2004:

Raimondo said:
Ron Suskind, former Wall Street Journal reporter and author of The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the White House, and the Education of Paul O'Neill, has a piece in last Sunday's New York Times Magazine that is the talk of the internet, and with good reason: it is a devastating portrait of this "faith-based" presidency, with its religio-cultural idiosyncrasies and foibles. But it is not only that. Suskind manages to capture, in a series of vivid anecdotes, the political psychopathology that motivates this administration and shapes its perception. Here is the money quote:

Suskind said:
"In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend – but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

"The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'"
Raimondo is right: it is psychopathology. He writes further:

Conceit, as I have pointed out before, has always been the defining characteristic of the imperialistic personality, but the sort of hubris exhibited above – "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality" – goes beyond anything the world has yet seen. The maddest of Roman emperors took care to propitiate the gods, even as they accorded themselves divine status. But none dared venture their own creation myth. This is not just a new kind of American, as Professor Ryn would have it, but a new species of madmen.
But it's not a "new species of madmen," it is the same old problem of humanity: psychopaths and their sweet, sophorific lies.

Now, allow me to give you a small orientation talk here from Gurdjieff:

Gurdjieff said:
There are two processes which are sometimes called 'involutionary' and 'evolutionary.' The difference between them is the following:

An involutionary process begins consciously in the Absolute but at the next step it already becomes mechanical — and it becomes more and more mechanical as it develops;

an evolutionary process begins half-consciously but it becomes more and more conscious as its develops. [...]

... it will not be difficult to establish whether humanity can be regarded as evolving.

"Are we able to say for instance that life is governed by a group of conscious people? Where are they? Who are they?

We see exactly the opposite: that life is governed by those who are the least conscious, by those who are most asleep.

"Are we able to say that we observe in life a preponderance of the best, the strongest, and the most courageous elements?

Nothing of the sort. On the contrary we see a preponderance of vulgarity and stupidity of all kinds.

"Are we able to say that aspirations towards unity, towards unification, can be observed in life?

Nothing of the kind of course. We only see new divisions, new hostility, new misunderstandings.

"So that in the actual situation of humanity there is nothing that points to evolution proceeding.

On the contrary when we compare humanity with a man we quite clearly see a growth of [false] personality at the cost of essence, that is, a growth of the artificial, the unreal, and what is foreign, at the cost of the natural, the real, and what is one's own.

"Together with this we see a growth of automatism.

"Contemporary culture requires automatons. And people are undoubtedly losing their acquired habits of independence and turning into automatons, into parts of machines.

It is impossible to say where is the end of all this and where the way out— or whether there is an end and a way out.

One thing alone is certain, that man's slavery grows and increases. Man is becoming a willing slave. He no longer needs chains. He begins to grow fond of his slavery, to be proud of it. And this is the most terrible thing that can happen to a man. [...]

"Man is a machine. All his deeds, actions, words, thoughts, feelings, convictions, opinions, and habits are the results of external influences, external impressions. Out of himself a man cannot produce a single thought, a single action. Everything he says, does, thinks, feels—all this happens. Man cannot discover anything, invent anything. It all happens.

"To establish this fact for oneself, to understand it, to be convinced of its truth, means getting rid of a thousand illusions about man, about his being creative and consciously organizing his own life, and so on.

There is nothing of this kind. Everything happens—popular movements, wars, revolutions, changes of government, all this happens. And it happens in exactly the same way as everything happens in the life of individual man. Man is born, lives, dies, builds houses, writes books, not as he wants to, but as it happens. Everything happens. Man does not love, hate, desire—all this happens.

"But no one will ever believe you if you tell him he can do nothing. This is the most offensive and the most unpleasant thing you can tell people. It is particularly unpleasant and offensive because it is the truth, and nobody wants to know the truth. [...]

"The greatest insult for a 'man-machine' is to tell him that he can do nothing, can attain nothing, that he can never move towards any aim whatever and that in striving towards one he will inevitably create another. Actually of course it cannot be otherwise.

The 'man-machine' is in the power of accident. His activities may fall by accident into some sort of channel which has been created by cosmic or mechanical forces and they may by accident move along this channel for a certain time, giving the illusion that aims of some kind are being attained. Such accidental correspondence of results with the aims we have set before us or the attainment of aims in small things which can have no consequences creates in mechanical man the conviction that he is able to attain any aim, 'is able to conquer nature' as it is called, is able to 'arrange the whole of his life,' and so on.

"As a matter of fact he is of course unable to do anything of the kind because not only has he no control over things outside himself but he has no control even over things within himself.

This last must be very clearly understood and assimilated; at the same time it must be understood that control over things begins with control over things in ourselves, with control over ourselves. A man who cannot control himself, or the course of things within himself, can control nothing. [...]

"The evolving part of organic life is humanity. ... If humanity does not evolve it means that the evolution of organic life will stop and this in its turn will cause the growth of the ray of creation to stop. At the same time if humanity ceases to evolve it becomes useless from the point of view of the aims for which it was created and as such it may be destroyed. In this way the cessation of evolution may mean the destruction of humanity.
[...]

"At the same time in examining the life of humanity as we know it historically we are bound to acknowledge that humanity is moving in a circle. In one century it destroys everything it creates in another and the progress in mechanical things of the past hundred years has proceeded at the cost of losing many other things which perhaps were much more important for it.

Speaking in general there is every reason to think and to assert that humanity is at a standstill and from a standstill there is a straight path to downfall and degeneration.

A standstill means that a process has become balanced. The appearance of any one quality immediately evokes the appearance of another quality opposed to it. The growth of knowledge in one domain evokes the growth of ignorance in another; refinement on the one hand evokes vulgarity on the other; freedom in one connection evokes slavery in another; the disappearance of some superstitions evokes the appearance and the growth of others; and so on.

... a balanced process proceeding in a certain way cannot be changed at any moment it is desired. It can be changed and set on a new path only at certain 'cross-roads.' In between the 'crossroads' nothing can be done.

At the same time if a process passes by a 'crossroad' and nothing happens, nothing is done, then nothing can be done afterwards and the process will continue and develop according to mechanical laws; and even if people taking part in this process foresee the inevitable destruction of everything, they will be unable to do anything. I repeat that something can be done only at certain moments which I have just called 'crossroads'...

"Of course there are very many people who consider that the life of humanity is not proceeding in the way in which according to their views it ought to go. And they invent various theories which in their opinion ought to change the whole life of humanity.

One invents one theory. Another immediately invents a contradictory theory. And both expect everyone to believe them. And many people indeed do believe either one or the other.

Life naturally takes its own course but people do not stop believing in their own or other people's theories and they believe that it is possible to do something.

All these theories are certainly quite fantastic, chiefly because they do not take into account the most important thing, namely, the subordinate part which humanity and organic life play in the world process.

Intellectual theories put man in the center of everything; everything exists for him, the sun, the stars, the moon, the earth. They even forget man's relative size, his nothingness, his transient existence, and other tilings.

They assert that a man if he wishes is able to change his whole life, that is, to organize his life on rational principles.

And all the time new theories appear evoking in their turn opposing theories; and all these theories and the struggle between them undoubtedly constitute one of the forces which keep humanity in the state in which it is at present.

Besides, all these theories for general welfare and general equality are not only unrealizable, but they would be fatal if they were realized.

Everything in nature has its aim and its purpose, both the inequality of man and his suffering.

To destroy inequality would mean destroying the possibility of evolution.

To destroy suffering would mean, first, destroying a whole series of perceptions for which man exists, and second, the destruction of the 'shock,' that is to say, the force which alone can change the situation.

And thus it is with all intellectual theories.

"The process of evolution, of that evolution which is possible for humanity as a whole, is completely analogous, to the process of evolution possible for the individual man. And it begins with the same thing, namely, a certain group of cells gradually becomes conscious; then it attracts to itself other cells, subordinates others, and gradually makes the whole organism serve its aims and not merely eat, drink, and sleep. This is evolution and there can be no other kind of evolution. In humanity as in individual man everything begins with the formation of a conscious nucleus. All the mechanical forces of life fight against the formation of this conscious nucleus in humanity, in just the same way as all mechanical habits, tastes and weaknesses fight against conscious self-remembering in man." [...]

"We have already spoken enough about the meaning of being 'born.' This relates to the beginning of a new growth of essence, the beginning of the formation of individuality, the beginning of the appearance of one indivisible I.

"But in order to be able to attain this or at least begin to attain it, a man must die, that is, he must free himself from a thousand petty attachments and identifications which hold him in the position in which he is. He is attached to everything in his life, attached to his imagination, attached to his stupidity, attached even to his sufferings, possibly to his sufferings more than to anything else. He must free himself from this attachment. Attachment to things, identification with things, keep alive a thousand useless I's in a man. These I's must die in order that the big I may be born.

But how can they be made to die? They do not want to die. It is at this point that the possibility of awakening comes to the rescue. To awaken means to realize one's nothingness, that is to realize one's complete and absolute mechanicalness and one's complete and absolute helplessness. And it is not sufficient to realize it philosophically in words. It is necessary to realize it in clear, simple, and concrete facts, in one's own facts. When a man begins to know himself a little he will see in himself many things that are bound to horrify him. So long as a man is not horrified at himself he knows nothing about himself. [...]

"When self-deceit is destroyed and a man begins to see the difference between the mechanical and the conscious in himself, there begins a struggle for the realization of consciousness in life and for the subordination of the mechanical to the conscious. For this purpose a man begins with endeavors to set a definite decision, coming from conscious motives, against mechanical processes proceeding according to the laws of duality. The creation of a permanent third principle is for man the transformation of the duality into the trinity.

"Strengthening this decision and bringing it constantly and infallibly into all those events where formerly accidental neutralizing 'shocks' used to act and give accidental results, gives a permanent line of results in time and is the transformation of trinity into quaternity.

The next stage, the transformation of quaternity into quinternity and the construction of the pentagram has not one but many different meanings even in relation to man. And of these is learned, first of all, one, which is the most beyond doubt, relating to the work of centers.

"The development of the human machine and the enrichment of being begins with a new and unaccustomed functioning of this machine. We know that a man has five centers: the thinking, the emotional, the moving, the instinctive, and the sex. The predominant development of any one center at the expense of the others produces an extremely one-sided type of man, incapable of further development. But if a man brings the work of the five centers within him into harmonious accord, he then 'locks the pentagram within him' and becomes a finished type of the physically perfect man. The full and proper functioning of five centers brings them into union with the higher centers which introduce the missing principle and put man into direct and permanent connection with objective consciousness and objective knowledge.

"And then man becomes the six-pointed star, that is, by becoming locked within a circle of life independent and complete in itself, he becomes isolated from foreign influences or accidental shocks; he embodies in himself the Seal of Solomon.
Facing the fact that you are a reaction machine is the first truth. Only then can you begin the laborious process of learning about your machine and waking up from the hypnosis that keeps you functioning as a machine. But coming to that realization can be quite painful and even unpleasant to the False personality. All we see here of JohnW and Ohlove is False personality. Is there an essence waiting to be born when the False personality dies? We don't know. But we do know the signs of the Predator, the buffers, the programs of the False personality:

Gurdjieff said:
...people live in personality. Personality has its own interests and its own tastes which have nothing in common with the interests and the tastes of essence. Personality ... is the result of the wrong work of centers. For this reason personality can dislike precisely what essence likes—and like what essence does not like. Here is where the struggle between essence and personality begins. Essence knows what it wants but cannot explain it. Personality does not want to hear of it and takes no account of it. It has its own desires. And it acts in its own way. But its power does not continue beyond that moment. After that, in some way or other, the two essences have to live together. And they hate one another. No sort of acting can help here. In one way or another essence or type gains the upper hand and decides.

"In this case nothing can be done by reason or by calculation. Neither can so-called love help because, in the real meaning of the word, mechanical man cannot love—with him it loves or it does not love.
[...]
Some think that there is no idea of the "love of mankind" in the system. Others think that Gurdjieff's ideas were thorough-going materialism, that he wanted to make people into machines, that there was no idea of the miraculous, no idealism, and so on, and so on.

Gurdjieff said:
"This is nothing," he said. "If you were to put together everything that people are able to say about this system, you would not believe in it yourselves.

This system has a wonderful property: even a mere contact with it calls forth either the best or the worst in people.

You may know a man all your life and think that he is not a bad fellow, that he is even rather intelligent. Try speaking to him about these ideas and you will see at once that he is an utter fool. Another man, on the other hand, might appear to have nothing in him, but speak to him on these subjects and you find that he thinks, and thinks very seriously." [...]

"People are very fond of talking about morality. But morality is merely self-suggestion. What is necessary is conscience. We do not teach morality. We teach how to find conscience. People are not pleased when we say this. They say that we have no love. Simply because we do not encourage weakness and hypocrisy but, on the contrary, take off all masks.

He who desires the truth will not speak of love or of Christianity because he knows how far he is from these.

Christian teaching is for Christians. And Christians are those who live, that is, who do everything, according to Christ's precepts. Can they who talk of love and morality live according to Christ's precepts?

Of course they cannot; but there will always be talk of this kind, there will always be people to whom words are more precious than anything else.

But this is a true sign! He who speaks like this is an empty man; it is not worth while wasting time on him.
Finally, let me explain one of the principles behind the operation of this forum from the writings of Boris Mouravieff:

The first task of someone who seeks the Way is to identify his basic type among the fundamental types of exterior man. Having done this, he must try to recognize and determine the nature of the deformation and the character of the imbalance in his Personality.

...the Tradition calls it the Mirror - and gives it this name because it helps the neophyte to recognize himself.

... A group of [seekers] containing all three basic types of exterior men and, within these three types, representatives of the six variations corresponding to the six sectors of the lower centres, when they are already quite advanced, forms what is called a living Mirror.

In effect, taken as whole a group constituted in this way possesses every chord natural to the human psyche; as a result, it is capable of every reaction that only the fully developed Personality of man 4 can experience when, in all his fullness, he is ready to cross the second Threshold.

Directed by an elder and faced with this living Mirror during a meeting, the [seeker] becomes transparent, to use a well-used expression. He is seen in every aspect or facet of his psyche.

Before such a group, he is incapable of dissembling his thoughts, his feelings or his passions behind a mask of lies.

Although socially speaking this may be a disagreeable trial, from the esoteric point of view it is a most useful opportunity, where he can try and gather precious information about himself, information that he sorely needs at the beginning of his work.

We will say again that the man 4, who has a fully developed and disciplined Personality, sees in the common run of men what the [seekers] who are on the steps of the Staircase see only collectively in a meeting that combines the elements we have just described.

We should know that everything is written on the human face; but one must know how to read it. The same goes for the human body; its attitudes, its behaviour, its walk, or the poses it strikes in different situations, all betray the inner content of the man.

Having learned to know himself, man 4 can decipher others.

A room full of spectators to a certain extent resembles the gathering of [seekers] we described. Indeed, it should contain representatives of all eighteen sectors of the lower centres of the human Personality. And it is common knowledge that if an audience is not influenced by some intervention from outside, by propaganda or by passion, its reactions are usually very sound.
Indeed, this process can be "socially unpleasant," but it is an act of true, unconditional LOVE for the soul of another (assuming that the other may have one which is not entirely certain!) Usually, if there IS a soul present, suppressed by the False Personality, it will understand the value of the Mirror in spite of the unpleasantness. When there is nothing BUT False Personality, no progress is ever made. As Gurdjieff said, quoted above, "But this is a true sign! He who speaks like this is an empty man; it is not worth while wasting time on him."

So, if you really prefer Stuart Wilde's intellectual theories, that is fine. Go find his forum and interact there.
 
ohlove wrote: Sleep? I'm awake here, listening to you and reading and taking it all in, forgive me I'm still finding my way around. These are my personal perceptions, what I'm feeling here. It feels sort of contentious, like some are looking for a fight.

Hi ohlove,
We are all asleep. It wasn't meant as a jab, but as objective Truth. The difficult part of it all is, that once we think we are waking up, we are lulled back to sleep. It has much to do with the love, light, soft, fluffy pillows all over the bed. ;)

ohlove: Hitler..I don't think of him much, should I? I don't know much about him personally so dont' care if someone discredits him. Was Hitler writing books to help people become less troubled?

Peg: Actually, we should all learn about him, and others of his ilk. That's part of what this forum is all about. Learning to identify those who seem to have no heart, no compassion, no empathy for others. They're called psychopaths, and this world is run by them. Just look about at all the suffering, then look at who it is benefitting. Hard for me to sleep while all THAT noise is going on.

ohlove: You seem hysterical the way you write . maybe you are frustrated with people like me who won't seem to listen? I'm sorry, but you have to tell what you would like people to see, or hear specifically. Data please!

Peg: Anart is probably the least hysterical person on this forum. She's straightforward, as are many people here. Frustration isn't the word I'd use, more like giving you what you asked for. Many people come here either not having read the guidelines, or not understand them. This forum IS ABOUT being honest and straight forward, cutting through all the little cycles and loops that people go through to approach another. And we do understand that you are new here so it may cause you a little frustration. That's normal, and that's your predator. If you manage to hang in there, you'll see exactly what they mean by that.

ohlove: Also, what do you do personally, to ensure people are more awake and less sleeping? Do you stomp your feet and hope if you yell louder they will get it? Is this method ever effective?

Peg: Yep! We do, in our own way. Maybe if we stomp loud enough, it may wake up a few more. No one is attacking you here, we just don't waste any time. If you were unaware of this, then perhaps reading some of the suggested material might clear things up. There's an endless stream of data, and many references about where to find it. Please take the suggestions of older members. They will direct you to the data you require.

ohlove: Anyway, I keep hearing loud & clear, the world is burning, but what exactly does this mean? Are you referring to greenhouse gas, global warming the rainforrest, the war in the middle-east, gang violence? And what does any of this have to do with Stuart's books and philosophies?

Peg: All of the above and more. It may not be burning in your back yard, but imagine for just one minute that you are dropped into the middle of Baghdad with nothing but the clothes on your back. Burning? Hell, it's getting incinerated. The problem with people in this country (USA) is that the majority of them go through life with blinders on. It's not happening in front of them, they aren't affected (ain't we got a lot to be thankful for? AMEN), so they don't give it anymore consideration than they do clipping their toenails. Just imagine for one minute you are in their place.

ohlove: Thank you and with love,

You are very welcome.

Peg
 
I heard about Stuart Wilde a while back, he reminds me a bit of Joe Rogan, David Icke etc. What they say always ends up as a mess for me, I understand where theyre coming from up until certain points, its like they enter wonderland and just make things up, like its based on something they concoct from reading other peoples ideas. Like a lot of it is OK, but then they say something that just seems like irrellevant, pointless opinions which they talk about as if its actually real. Its amazing really to see them give out loads of information on their ideas, and you can just sit there waiting for one shred of proof, but what you get is usually a "suggestion" that what they're saying is true, rather than anything thats actually substantial. And once these people get on these "personal" ideas of their own, they don't seem to break free of them, they just repeat it over and over, and maybe evolve it a bit, but basically keep the same idea until they die, it seems. And when you actually check out what some of these people say, you usually find that they're exaggerating loads of things just because it fits in with their method of ascension.

I get the impression that they think they're some kind of conduits for higher knowledge, and that it can only be attained through them, kind of like a delusional Jesus complex. And they can't really get out of it because they're in a sort of heirarchical system where they're always at the top, and when other people start to believe what they say, it makes them believe themselves even more, which can make the "noise" of their transmission even worse.
 

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