Study and Discussion of the Moving Center

[Buddy]

I experience this a lot so I know it's true. When energy levels are high, there is the sense of being spring-loaded, or wound up and ready to blast off. However, there is a difference to what is commonly meant by these phrases, because it is not uncontrolled physical energy as is commonly understood as physical impulsiveness, though there may be some of that. What I mean is that there is so much energy available, the perceptual aspect of this state is that I can see what is about to happen or what I'm about to do before it happens or before my body reacts to do it because there is plenty of "time" to observe.

This state will drive me crazy if nothing is happening, something is happening so slow that comprehension outpaces it, stuff gets boring or stupid, or there is nothing to do. Not that this happens a lot because I stay busy, but if I don't, it will. I know because I regularly have the 'benefit' of experiencing both "ends" of the energy spectrum: being hyperactive and hypoactive.

I wonder am I making sense here, because as more people accumulate or otherwise access more energy somehow, they will experience this too, OSIT

Yes bud I experience this state too, OSIT. Apologies if I'm describing something else.

For me it's like I'm letting the centres that are being utilised/working at the present moment, simply 'do their job', that my consciousness 'rises' above these functions and is able to observe everything that is going on with a particular 'energy'. The flavour of this energy is very peculiar but enjoyable in the sense that its not simply just an emotional experience, but appears to permiaite all aspects of my being and my experience of life.

For example, Rather than worry about how someone perceives My voice or how I move, I don't identify with the worry, but I observe how it affects my movement and thoughts etc. From here I start to feel a 'different' kind of energy that flows through me and all that I do. I am able to observe everything ( well, as much as I know about myself just now ;D) from a 'higher' perspective, and in conjunction with this new energy, time slows or rather, my consciousness goes faster!

No, you're not describing something else. That's my experience as well. Thanks for sharing it!

 

[SeekinTruth]

I'm sorry if this a bit off topic. I wonder if the paleo diet is giving the positive instinctive part of the Motor Center the proper fuel to make the center work better. In other words produce more and better energy to work with.

If so, the Work on the self should give more results faster than on a less healthy diet? We've all experienced all sorts of cravings fade away, besides just food cravings on this diet. So maybe it puts us in a better overall state to do the Work by making the centers less inclined to try to do the work/use the energy of other centers?

Also the aspect of keto metabolism as the primary fuel for the body, instead of carbohydrates, is like a slow, consistent burning fuel that lasts much longer and can do more work on the same amount of calories, besides healing the body systems.

Combined with regular EE/breathing practice, it should really accelerate the Work.

 

[Laura]

How could we, in this school, have a sort of stop exercise? Any alternatives that are possible on ones own?

That is what is exercising me to no end. The intellectual man and the emotional man seem to be pretty well able to deal with things via the forum and some work on their own. But the moving centered man (and here I mean men and women) has a greater difficulty.

NB. There are 2 double postings in the Mouravieff part.

Can you quote the repeat for me so I can remove it?

 

[paralleloscope]

NB. There are 2 double postings in the Mouravieff part.

Can you quote the repeat for me so I can remove it?

1. The second paragraph: "The first attempts at internal..."- is repeated in the 10th

2. Past the middle of the 13th paragraph there starts the line "When the emotional centre is deprived of its normal functions..." - which is repeated in paragraph 14

 

[paralleloscope]

How could we, in this school, have a sort of stop exercise? Any alternatives that are possible on ones own?

That is what is exercising me to no end. The intellectual man and the emotional man seem to be pretty well able to deal with things via the forum and some work on their own. But the moving centered man (and here I mean men and women) has a greater difficulty.

The problem seems to be the lack of physical presence

The body tries in vain to adopt an ordinary comfortable posture. But the man's will, brought into action by the will of the teacher, prevents it.

I don't know if your presence and will as a teacher could be broadcast via technology (in some degree I think it can)? then maybe a pop-up thingie in the cass forum software or a mobile phone app could be a way, then there is the problem of the teachers need to overview the students safety, which probably flushes that idea if at all your will could be broadcast through the wires. Would the exercise work if the student was to evaluate his own safety in surroundings, probably not.

When reading of the stop exercise I dreaded the thought of getting to practice it. Though I'm likely a man 2 with a substitution of moving center in the emotionals place, I think it would be very helpful beacause of that.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Gurdjieff only used the stop exercise during the Prieure days, so I'm wondering if he used a different technique for the same purpose in his later years? He mentions the idea that new, unaccustomed, and often uncomfortable postures promote thinking in new ways, so perhaps part of this was accomplished via the 'movements' exercises, as well as physical exercises he gave to some students (e.g., sitting or standing with arms extended for periods of 15 minutes). He also gave a lot of exercises to folks seemingly with the purpose of fostering increased body awareness (akin to Levine's work): sensing different parts of the body, inner sensations, directing attention to one part then another, 2 or more parts at the same time. That sort of thing.

But the ability to see oneself at all times, and be aware of one's movements (and that includes expressions, gestures, postures, tics, habits, etc.) seems to be a different skill. It requires 'stepping outside of the body' in a sense, while also fully inhabiting it, and that may be a challenge for moving centered types who are so tied to their bodies and their expression. How can you practice external consideration if you have no ability to control how much your body 'leaks out' your emotional reactions, and not only that, no awareness of how your body expresses those reactions in the first place, for example?

I guess the question is, what is the exact purpose (and intended result) of the stop exercise? And is there another way to get the same?

 

[pstott]

From what I understand (from reading Gurdjieff and J.G. Bennett and others) and from attending the 4th way school at Claymont, West Virginia, the purpose of the "stop" exercise is to allow an individual to bring focus to sensing and analyzing their state at a given instant. On hearing "STOP" one is to freeze ones activity and if possible thoughts, feelings etc. - like taking a snapshot - and to focus the inner observer to be aware of this gestalt.

However this is not used frequently, and only under certain conditions by a teacher who has "earned the right" to issue the stop command (however one earns that right I am not sure).

Hope this helps.

 

[whitecoast]

Hi

How could we, in this school, have a sort of stop exercise? Any alternatives that are possible on ones own?

That is what is exercising me to no end. The intellectual man and the emotional man seem to be pretty well able to deal with things via the forum and some work on their own. But the moving centered man (and here I mean men and women) has a greater difficulty.

One possible (but limited) solution I thought up would be to compile a CD or DVD that has many blank tracks of unequal minute length, but one track announces a STOP command and a RESUME command that's five or ten minutes later. Putting the CD or DVD on shuffle and going about your chores, every 20 minutes to an hour the STOP command comes up and you freeze, taking a mental, emotional, and physical snapshot of your position. The randomness of it ensues the commands never get predictable, thwarting the ability of the machine to acclimatize too much.

This had a couple of drawbacks. You must wear headphones or have a sound system loud enough to hear it from anywhere in the house, and a non-participant needs to be there to ensure no injury comes to you or anything you're around or are holding.

Regardless though, this is probably the best solution a dispersed school can come up with. Maybe the shuffled playlist could be streamed online as well, so everyone can stop at the same time, but I'm not sure how necessary that synchronization is (plus, why use all that bandwidth just for silence?)

 

[Approaching Infinity]

One possible (but limited) solution I thought up would be to compile a CD or DVD that has many blank tracks of unequal minute length, but one track announces a STOP command and a RESUME command that's five or ten minutes later. Putting the CD or DVD on shuffle and going about your chores, every 20 minutes to an hour the STOP command comes up and you freeze, taking a mental, emotional, and physical snapshot of your position. The randomness of it ensues the commands never get predictable, thwarting the ability of the machine to acclimatize too much.

This had a couple of drawbacks. You must wear headphones or have a sound system loud enough to hear it from anywhere in the house, and a non-participant needs to be there to ensure no injury comes to you or anything you're around or are holding.

Regardless though, this is probably the best solution a dispersed school can come up with. Maybe the shuffled playlist could be streamed online as well, so everyone can stop at the same time, but I'm not sure how necessary that synchronization is (plus, why use all that bandwidth just for silence?)

I don't think this idea, or any in which the one giving the command is not physically present, is really feasible. First of all, as you mention, it requires the participant to be responsible for their own safety, and this isn't possible given the nature of the exercise. I think the presence of a teacher is essential. As Gurdjieff mentions, it is the trust in the teacher that allows the participant to submit fully to putting themselves in such a vulnerable and potentially harmful situation. And as Ouspensky mentions, simply avoiding any potentially tricky movements or postures (which is what one would be tempted to do without a teacher present, and in order to not harm oneself) misses the point.

 

[Turgon]

I guess the question is, what is the exact purpose (and intended result) of the stop exercise? And is there another way to get the same?

I thought this was part of that intended purpose

Ordinary man, even if he comes to the conclusion that work on himself is indispensable—is the slave of his body. He is not only the slave of the recognized and visible activity of the body but the slave of the unrecognized and the invisible activities of the body, and it is precisely these which hold him in their power. Therefore when a man decides to struggle for freedom he has first of all to struggle with his own body.

"I will now point out to you only one aspect of the functioning of the body which it is indispensable to regulate in any event. So long as this functioning goes on in a wrong way no other kind of work, either moral or spiritual, can go on in a right way.

"You will remember that when we spoke of the work of the 'three-story factory,' I pointed out to you that most of the energy produced by the factory is wasted uselessly, among other things energy is wasted on unnecessary muscular tension. This unnecessary muscular tension eats up an enormous amount of energy. And with work on oneself attention must first be turned to this.

"In speaking of the work of the factory in general it is indispensable to establish that it is necessary to stop useless waste before there can be any sense in increasing the production. If production is increased while this useless waste remains unchecked and nothing is done to stop it, the new energy produced will merely increase this useless waste and may even give rise to phenomena of an unhealthy kind.

Therefore one of the first things a man must learn previous to any physical work on himself is to observe and feel muscular tension and to be able to relax the muscles when it is necessary, that is to say, chiefly to relax unnecessary tension of the muscles."

I believe Ouspensky also alluded in ISOTM that Gurdjieff moved with a feline grace. So I wonder if he went through a process, not too dissimilar to what Peter Levine talks about, of eventually releasing all that stored energy and repeat bodily tension's/stress from stored trauma's in order to move forward in his intellectual/emotional development. And that was due to reconnecting with his bodily awareness.

A lot of Levine's body awareness exercises, like in Gurdjieff's 'Stop' Exercise require's a person to have someone else their to help guide the process. But from the above quote, it seems the main goal is release unnecessary tension of the muscles. Maybe utilizing the body awareness techniques of body exploration talked about in 'In An Unspoken Voice' is a good start. As long we can find someone whom we trust to help with the guiding process. My experience with it and having a somatic therapist has shown me that it's a pretty simple process. You are kind of there as support and to help lead the person into exploration of their own body, and that having that support voice every once in a while, helps to limit the amount of intellectual ramblings and fear that's associated with uncomfortable sensations, osit.

On a side note, I'm pretty perplexed, even after reading this thread as to how someone would know if they are moving centre dominated. I believe I am, but this is based on my inability to stay in the same place for too long. I always need to keep moving...

 

[Laura]

From what I understand (from reading Gurdjieff and J.G. Bennett and others) and from attending the 4th way school at Claymont, West Virginia, the purpose of the "stop" exercise is to allow an individual to bring focus to sensing and analyzing their state at a given instant. On hearing "STOP" one is to freeze ones activity and if possible thoughts, feelings etc. - like taking a snapshot - and to focus the inner observer to be aware of this gestalt.

Well, perhaps having an alarm on the watch that you have someone else set for you to go off at three or four times during the day (planning it so it will be times when you aren't driving), at which point you stop whatever you are doing, recapitulate your thoughts as far back as you can from that moment, write them down, and write down exactly how you are feeling in your body, and how aware you are, or something like that?

It's not perfect, but it's an interesting exercise nonetheless.

Ark and I used to play a little game all the time - still do occasionally. Whenever either of us would ask the other, at any odd moment, "what are you thinking?" the other had to respond with not only how they felt, but exactly what they were thinking at that moment, and had to follow the train of thoughts backward as far as possible. You'd be surprised how that sharpens your awareness and keeps you in yourself.

 

[go2]

I guess the question is, what is the exact purpose (and intended result) of the stop exercise? And is there another way to get the same?

The “stop exercise” places awareness and effort in the body. It seems to me this exercise is intended to most benefit those whose center of gravity of personality is in the feeling or thinking center. The Work balances and connects three centers. Balance for a moving centered man would require effort in the other two centers, to raise them up to the level of knowing and presence in the moving center.

The exact purpose is strengthening will and attention…..

The body tries in vain to adopt an ordinary comfortable posture. But the man's will, brought into action by the will of the teacher, prevents it. The struggle goes on not for life but till the death. But in this case will can conquer.

This exercise taken together with all that has been said is an exercise for self-remembering. A man must remember himself so as not to miss the signal; he must remember himself so as not to take the most comfortable posture at the first moment; he must remember himself in order to watch the tension of the muscles in different parts of the body, the direction in which he is looking, the facial expression, and so on; he must remember himself in order to overcome very considerable pain sometimes from unaccustomed positions of the legs, arms, and back, so as not to be afraid of falling or dropping something heavy on his foot.

It is enough to forget oneself for a single moment and the body will adopt, by itself and almost unnoticeably, a more comfortable position, it will transfer the weight from one foot to another, will slacken certain muscles, and so on. This exercise is a simultaneous exercise for the will, the attention, the thoughts, the feelings, and for moving center.

Modern men and women have little knowledge of the possibility of effort beyond physical comfort to effort in the realm of pain, discomfort, fear, failure, and exhaustion. Physical labor or sitting meditation requires will to go on beyond pain and exhaustion of the body. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a labor intensive farming life, which early on pushed the limits of physical effort beyond city life, with its machine assisted physical labor and emphasis on mental labor. So, for me, it was thinking where I discovered how lazy I am. I would rather build a rock wall all day long, than think for a few minutes. I sweat to extend thinking beyond automatic reading and day dreaming.

Will is strengthened by showing up day after day, when sloth and impatience tempt me.
Will is strengthened when I struggle to resist expressing negative emotion.
Will is strengthened by effort to externally consider, when self-pity and pride beckon.
Will is strengthened when I continue to Work, even though I don’t understand,
even though I am tired, even though progress is imperceptible, even though I am…...

 

[Laura]

I guess the question is, what is the exact purpose (and intended result) of the stop exercise? And is there another way to get the same?

The “stop exercise” places awareness and effort in the body. It seems to me this exercise is intended to most benefit those whose center of gravity of personality is in the feeling or thinking center. The Work balances and connects three centers. Balance for a moving centered man would require effort in the other two centers, to raise them up to the level of knowing and presence in the moving center.

The exact purpose is strengthening will and attention…..

So, any suggestions about how to work with moving center focused people?

 

[mamadrama]

Fwiw, these exercises remind me of the Alexander Technique. Might be something in here worth exploring further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_technique

The Alexander Technique teaches the ability to improve physical postural habits, particularly those that have become ingrained and conditioned responses. The technique can improve performance, self observation and impulse control and relieve chronic stiffness, tension and stress.

The technique is named after Frederick Matthias Alexander, who, in the 1890s, developed its principles as a personal tool to alleviate breathing problems and hoarseness during public speaking. He credited the technique with allowing him to pursue his passion for Shakespearean acting.

The Teaching Process
F.M. Alexander's approach emphasizes the use of freedom to choose beyond conditioning in every action. The technique is applied dynamically to everyday movements, as well as actions selected by students.

Because of a change in balance, actions such as sitting, squatting, lunging or walking are often selected by the teacher. Other actions may be selected by the student, tailored to their interests or work activities such as hobbies, computer use, lifting, driving or performance in acting, sports, speech or music. Alexander teachers often use themselves as examples. They demonstrate, explain, and analyze a student's moment to moment responses as well as using mirrors, video feedback or classmate observations. Guided modeling with light hand contact is the primary tool for detecting and guiding the way past unnecessary effort. Suggestions for improvements are often student-specific.[2]

Exercise as a teaching tool is deliberately omitted because of a common mistaken assumption there exists a "correct" position. There are only two specific exercises practiced separately; the first is lying semi-supine. Resting in this way uses "mechanical advantage" as a means of releasing cumulative muscular tension. It's also a specific time to practice Alexander's principle of conscious "Directing" without "doing." The second exercise is the "Whispered Ah," which is used to coordinate and free breathing & vocal production.

Freedom, efficiency and patience are the prescribed values. Proscribed are unnecessary effort, self-limiting habits as well as mistaken perceptual assumptions. Students are led to change their largely automatic routines that are interpreted by the teacher to currently or cumulatively be physically limiting, inefficient or not in keeping with anatomical structure. The Alexander teacher provides verbal coaching while monitoring, guiding and preventing unnecessary habits at their source with a specialized hands-on assistance. This specialized hands-on requires Alexander teachers to demonstrate on themselves the improved physical coordination they are communicating to the student.[3]

Alexander developed his own terminology to talk about his methods, outlined in his four books. These terms were created to describe the sometimes paradoxical experience of learning and substituting new improvements.

 

[go2]

So, any suggestions about how to work with moving center focused people?

A pilgrimage is a traditional way to engage the moving center in sustained effort. The Camino de Santiago is an ancient pilgrimage route in your neighborhood. I walked this way in 2008, from Porta St. Jacques in the Pyrenees to Santiago de Compostela in 32 days. The Camino de Santiago has a developed infrastructure of dormitories which are inexpensive. I spent about 20Euros a day for a room and board. New people, new places, a new experience of time, etc. requires attention and effort as inertia and habit of everyday life are left behind.

I spent a few hours each morning recapitulating my life as I walked. It was as if I walked away from a life which no longer had meaning. Recapitulation required effort and attention of three centers as I walked. There are probably many other Work experiments which could be facilitated by walking many miles with a backpack while engaging the thinking and feeling centers in various efforts.

I came to a new relationship with the motor center. It complained of being tired, having painful blisters, hating cold showers, being wet, anything to get me to stop this stupid effort. Well, I finally made an essence promise to the body that it could “die with its boots on” if it stopped complaining and trying to decide when it was time to rest. That was important to making effort in this Work. I had not realized how much I was ruled by physical desire and comfort.

Perhaps, we could organize a group traveling the “Camino de Santiago” together and experimenting with “stop exercises” and “go further exercises” to discover the meaning of “super efforts” for the moving center. Gurdjieff was famous for taking groups of dancers, seekers, political escapees, etc. on long difficult journeys to hardened the body and strengthen the will. Pilgrimage was a useful effort for me and might possibly be a school effort for a group who could schedule a month away from home. We could be wandering “seekers after truth” for a month.

I don’t know if this “wild” thought is useful, but I have wanted to suggest its possibility for some time. It was a moving center experiment which began the effort to strengthen will, for me. :)