Survival Experiments

[Xico]

Xico quote:

...also I am fully Keto-adapted, so hopefully we can get out alive of any event....

That is wonderful to be fully Keto-adapted, Xico, you are far ahead of me. How are you planning to find your meat and fats should there be a great catastrophe and you cannot buy it? Are you an experienced hunter, or do you count a cattle rancher among your close friends? Do you have preserved meat stocked, and how long will it keep edible? I would very much like to know what you are planning in this regard, as I know very little - indeed nothing - about emergency supplies for a Ketogenic diet.

Ynna

Hello Ynna:

well in my case I do have some hunting experience, I know how to prepare my own meals, I don't know if you have read that it is also recommended to start doing your own canning, so you can keep stews, meats, fats as lard,pork,and butter for a bit longer, so this is what I am working on.
if worst come to worst, I strongly believe that the Universe will provide, one just need to ask.

I hope this helps.

 

[rs]

rs quote:

In Arizona, knowing what a cottonwood tree looks like is a survival strategy because cottonwood trees require a year-round supply of water.

Hope that you will be sharing your empirical knowledge of survival techniques with us, rs. For instance, you told us you know that a cotton wood tree can supply water, if I understood correctly. But have you actually tapped water from it yourself - how did you go about extracting water from this tree? How much could you extract from one tree? What did its water taste like?

As I mentioned, a cottonwood tree requires a year-round supply of water, so if you see a live cottonwood tree, you know that there is underground water. You don't tap the tree itself, it is a marker where to dig a well for ground water.

This is specific survival advice for the American Southwest. Another survival tip is visit museums that display how "native" peoples lived. For example, the native Indians here used to make a kind of flour out of the seed pods of Mesquite trees. You grind up the pod and add water and you can bake something like a cracker or tortilla. The result is not exactly gourmet food, but it is palatable and has a certain sweetness to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus_sect._Aigeiros

 

[sitting]

I have pondered what you said above, Sitting. It reminded me that we shouldn't get so involved with survival -

You always fight as hard as you can. But ultimately you also need "reckless abandonment." In the end, we are souls -- energy identities that are indestructible. So there's no real reason to fear.

 

[Woodsman]

I think the best way to prevent issues with haves and have-nots during a crisis, is to turn as many people into 'haves' as you can while things are still relatively plentiful.

Unfortunately, this is tough to institute. -Especially since many people equate the idea of putting food aside with 'Prepping', which is a scary thought they'd rather push aside.

I'd like at some point soon to put together a canning party in my area, but it's difficult planning such a thing; everybody is so caught up in their lives, including me. But I think it would do some good to make it happen and to advertise it well enough so that it at least gets people thinking. By itself, it would be a drop in the bucket, but if every household can hear about it and think to just put aside at least a week or two's worth of basic food stuffs, then it could serve to take the panic edge off things should shit hit the fan all of a sudden.

But I've been talking about this for almost a year and have not done anything to make it happen, other than to collect some equipment and names of people who would be interested. Life is not going to provide space on its own; I'm going to have to get forceful to make things move.

One thing I've also done, is to store a few big bags of rice. They're cheap, and while rice isn't the sort of thing I'd want to eat, it can be good to give out to people who are carb-based eaters. You can also trade with the stuff. If every family has two or three big bags of rice in their pantry, that alone could make a difference; keep people calm knowing they have a food safety net for a week or two, during which they can form networks out of strategy rather than fear.

 

[rs]

I think the best way to prevent issues with haves and have-nots during a crisis, is to turn as many people into 'haves' as you can while things are still relatively plentiful.

Unfortunately, this is tough to institute. -Especially since many people equate the idea of putting food aside with 'Prepping', which is a scary thought they'd rather push aside.

I once read something about how primitive people "store food". They don't have refrigeration, canning, freezing, etc. Perhaps they can salt something or pickle it, but for the most part, if you don't eat it, it goes bad.

The answer is surprisingly simple. They stored the food in the bodies of their family and tribe. Whoever had food shared because to not share meant it would go bad and you would never know when you did not have food and somebody else did. In other words, if you shared with someone else, it was expected that they would also share with you when the situation was reversed.

While this seems egalitarian and generous and all of that, the simple bottom line here is that it is efficient to do this. In other words, its not that primitive peoples are inherently more sharing, (the whole "noble savage" meme) its just a simple reality that their world requires this kind of behavior.

Unfortunately most people in a western "its all about me" culture are simply not going to get it.

 

[annp]

I think the best way to prevent issues with haves and have-nots during a crisis, is to turn as many people into 'haves' as you can while things are still relatively plentiful.

Unfortunately, this is tough to institute. -Especially since many people equate the idea of putting food aside with 'Prepping', which is a scary thought they'd rather push aside.

I'd like at some point soon to put together a canning party in my area, but it's difficult planning such a thing; everybody is so caught up in their lives, including me. But I think it would do some good to make it happen and to advertise it well enough so that it at least gets people thinking. By itself, it would be a drop in the bucket, but if every household can hear about it and think to just put aside at least a week or two's worth of basic food stuffs, then it could serve to take the panic edge off things should shit hit the fan all of a sudden.

One thing that might help to steer it away from the 'scary prepping idea', is that it's just way more efficient in the long run and a way to save money. If people have a store of healthy food on hand, that also does not contain strange chemicals, they are far less likely to resort to running to the nearest fast food place or grab processed foodstuffs from the grocery when they are tired from working a long day or running errands. Most people know what it's like to return home to an empty refrigerator when they have been too busy to think about grocery shopping, much less cooking. Always having a store of food on hand, just makes sense. Considering the harsh winters we are experiencing, that itself is a good reason to have a food supply. Spring may be here, but so are spring storms and flooding - who knows when a day will come when it might be tough to even make it a mile or so to the nearest store?

Just a thought that might get some people to reconsider the idea of storing stuff. Maybe just need to make it a more common sense thing than a panic thing. ;)

 

[MusicMan]

I do not believe that one can prepare for the apocalypse - even in principal. Except with knowledge. You can live for weeks without food but only days without water. Most preppers do not have the natural ratios worked out. They have a year's supply of food and a week's supply of water. In two weeks you are dead from thirst - or worse - you are sick as a dog from drinking contaminated water.

Also, in the event of an apocalypse, there will be two kinds of people: those with surplus and those without. Those without (a large number) will quickly become hungry and desperate and will attempt to take from those with (a small number). In the end, everyone will be left with nothing.

I live in Arizona which has a large LDS population. LDS believers are widely known to be preppers, so they store food. Guess what happens in a disaster? Large number of desperate people will seek out the LDS households because this is where the supplies are. A LDS friend of mine is a big believer in self defense, so he has guns and a large store of ammunition. He misses the point that when he is outnumbered 100:1, he isn't going to be able to shoot them fast enough. Plus he will have to sleep eventually.

In the apocalypse, everything you know goes away and you are left to your wits. Mostly you are left to your self-control. Saving food or going without electricity is no long term survival strategy. Knowing simple first aid is. In Arizona, knowing what a cottonwood tree looks like is a survival strategy because cottonwood trees require a year-round supply of water. Having a copy of the US Army survival manual handy is a survival strategy. Knowing the mathematics behind a parabola is a survival strategy (so you know how to make a solar oven out of stuff you can find). Keeping control over your panic in desperate situations is a survival strategy. Knowing your local geography is a survival strategy. Knowing the best route to the mountains on the highway is not because very quickly these will become clogged with abandoned vehicles.

The "Cs" are completely correct in that the only thing that you can truly prepare is knowledge. It is the only thing that fundamentally *cannot* be taken away from you.

rs, I like the way you think, and everything you have said makes perfect sense.
Those in different countries, need to seek out their own local knowledge.

I think the first thing that most people are going to miss are their mobile phones, once their batteries go flat, they will be without their network of virtual friends. Many many devices these days rely on batteries, so if you need them, you will need to prep up a solar/wind powered generator to charge them. If the power network is out, the phone networks will more than likely be out as well.
You can bet the only actual networks still running will be the police/emergency/military ones.

As for weapons, you will soon run out of bullets, but if you have a boomerang, bow and arrow or fishing gear, then you can still hunt for your food. If you have a machete, you will be able to cut stuff, and if you have a steel and flint you can make fire. You might need to prep some basic tools for building a shelter, even ropes, twines, cottons, needles etc. Basic medical supplies too.

I guess the list can be almost endless, and it will depend on how much you can carry in your rucksack.
I like the idea of having a fully equipped stash, then all you need is a means of getting to your safety zone safely.

 

[Trobar]

I think the best way to prevent issues with haves and have-nots during a crisis, is to turn as many people into 'haves' as you can while things are still relatively plentiful.

Unfortunately, this is tough to institute. -Especially since many people equate the idea of putting food aside with 'Prepping', which is a scary thought they'd rather push aside.

I once read something about how primitive people "store food". They don't have refrigeration, canning, freezing, etc. Perhaps they can salt something or pickle it, but for the most part, if you don't eat it, it goes bad.

The answer is surprisingly simple. They stored the food in the bodies of their family and tribe. Whoever had food shared because to not share meant it would go bad and you would never know when you did not have food and somebody else did. In other words, if you shared with someone else, it was expected that they would also share with you when the situation was reversed.

While this seems egalitarian and generous and all of that, the simple bottom line here is that it is efficient to do this. In other words, its not that primitive peoples are inherently more sharing, (the whole "noble savage" meme) its just a simple reality that their world requires this kind of behavior.

Unfortunately most people in a western "its all about me" culture are simply not going to get it.

Hi rs,

Hurricane Andrew in 1992 was a valuable learning lesson for me. The most valuable lesson I learned was that the community where I was living in Miami, Florida, USA actually behaved as a community. Granted, the outcome of the destruction was somewhat short-lived and cannot be compared with long term shortage of food and potable water.

However, I did see neighbors and 'strangers' helping each other out with no violence or looting. My point is that although knowledge does indeed protect us, many of us (yours truly included) have habits of anticipating outcomes and needless worrying that limit our ability to CREATE a harmonious collective solution to a dire situation.

Having worked as a midwife taught me that when a mother is in the "transitional" stage of a birth, although it may appear to those that do not understand, that she is in trouble, it is actually the opposite. These signs of transition - are actually very good news as a - birth - is soon to arrive.

Your post and the example of the tribal behavior resonated for me because in what we perceive as the present, we are a tribe. Those of us that are city dwellers can easily forget that we are a collective of humans that lean on each other every day.

Thank you for your post.

 

[Paragon]

I don't know about eating worms! I'd have to be mighty hungry. I've never been to the far east, but hear they eat grass hoppers and other creepy crawlers. Maybe if someone else cooked it, it'd be easier to swallow?

Good luck, nicklebleu. You are a brave man! ;D Maybe they'd be more palatable if they were mixed up in Pork Rind Ketobread or sauted with onions and mushrooms or something.

Even if you don't have to eat the crawlers, N2F, you'll at least have plenty of fishing bait!

Yes they certainly do! I was once offered (well actually a lot more than once ) a selection of insects, having been BBQ'd, by a hawker in Bangkok. I politely declined!

I'm also not sure about eating worms to survive, I would be more inclined to do so if I was with a group who went through that challenge together. If alone, well, I'd probably skip that meal!

 

[Shared Joy]

I do not believe that one can prepare for the apocalypse - even in principal. Except with knowledge. You can live for weeks without food but only days without water. Most preppers do not have the natural ratios worked out. They have a year's supply of food and a week's supply of water. In two weeks you are dead from thirst - or worse - you are sick as a dog from drinking contaminated water.

Also, in the event of an apocalypse, there will be two kinds of people: those with surplus and those without. Those without (a large number) will quickly become hungry and desperate and will attempt to take from those with (a small number). In the end, everyone will be left with nothing.

I live in Arizona which has a large LDS population. LDS believers are widely known to be preppers, so they store food. Guess what happens in a disaster? Large number of desperate people will seek out the LDS households because this is where the supplies are. A LDS friend of mine is a big believer in self defense, so he has guns and a large store of ammunition. He misses the point that when he is outnumbered 100:1, he isn't going to be able to shoot them fast enough. Plus he will have to sleep eventually.

In the apocalypse, everything you know goes away and you are left to your wits. Mostly you are left to your self-control. Saving food or going without electricity is no long term survival strategy. Knowing simple first aid is. In Arizona, knowing what a cottonwood tree looks like is a survival strategy because cottonwood trees require a year-round supply of water. Having a copy of the US Army survival manual handy is a survival strategy. Knowing the mathematics behind a parabola is a survival strategy (so you know how to make a solar oven out of stuff you can find). Keeping control over your panic in desperate situations is a survival strategy. Knowing your local geography is a survival strategy. Knowing the best route to the mountains on the highway is not because very quickly these will become clogged with abandoned vehicles.

The "Cs" are completely correct in that the only thing that you can truly prepare is knowledge. It is the only thing that fundamentally *cannot* be taken away from you.

I agree with you rs and Sitting, indeed knowledge is what is needed and applied also. Otherwise how could we really make use of it??
Therefore all preparation could be gathering and application of knowledge, not just accumulation of whatever goods we deem to be helpful.
I think that by walking the walk of preparedness we discover those simple truths and karmic understandings that we came to know. We have to be active, alert and flexible - not obsessed, frighten and rigid.

Why not enjoy this whole process of getting prepared? Why not consider it a drill of touching new territories we've never been before, and wouldn't have been without this transition period?

I think doing all these exercise of canning, learning new skills, getting a community started, and all other things mentioned, should be done with a sincere effort, but not despair. By trying to do some of these things, seeing what can be done, accepting what can't be done, we are contributing to the universal knowledge.

Weren't we told that this is a unique opportunity?

Well, I think that we aren't suppose to overdue anything, but we must try to discover new or old vistas, according to what our environment could provide and need. Maybe we'll teach, maybe we'll fight, maybe we'll disappear, but certainly will be something we haven't experienced. Until then, let's engage in what is at hand.

Thank you ALL, for your contribution, everything is so valuable!
Joy

 

[Shared Joy]

......
Well, I think that we aren't suppose to overdue anything, but we must try to discover new or old vistas, according to what our environment could provide and need. Maybe we'll teach, maybe we'll fight, maybe we'll disappear, but certainly will be something we haven't experienced. Until then, let's engage in what is at hand.

Thank you ALL, for your contribution, everything is so valuable!
Joy

My mistake, it should be overdo

 

[Tracy Anne]

Really enjoying this post.

I had the experience of the Christchurch earthquake in 2011. Though not in the city centre, I was driving into Christchurch at the time and stopped at a cafe not far from the outskirts of the city. It was there that I felt it. A friend and I drove on around the outer area to my cousins farm on the way....just north of the city. The shops where packed with people stocking up on food and there was no chance of getting petrol as the line of traffic was enormous. We stopped to get a few supplies for my cousin, luckily living on a farm she had plenty of most things as she lived in a remote hill area, which wasnt damaged by the earthquake.

I think initially petrol was the first requirement of a lot of people. We had a full tank so could have driven on out of the area if need be. I guess people did not know if supplies of food could be bought in because of extensive damage to roads and buildings so again food and water was a priority.

Will never forget the urgency and slight panic of people including myself. So I can only imagine what it would be like on a global scale.

I was able to think clearly and forecast what could be or might happen but my friend went into a strange mood and was cracking jokes......clearly an inappropriate response as we were hearing on the radio that many people had been killed. No phone signal available so it felt horrible not to be able to call family to let them know we were ok, initially.

What did I learn from this experience? To keep things in your car at all times....water, warm clothes, blankets, dried food, even spare medication and reading glasses. Of course a first aid kit.

The way my friend acted by laughing and making jokes was infuriating and I couldnt get through to him about the seriousness of the situation. But then he was English and not accustomed to the earthquake drills we grew up with at school and also in the workplace so I was able to think on the spot.

 

[Tui]

Tracy Anne quote:

I had the experience of the Christchurch earthquake in 2011. Though not in the city centre, I was driving into Christchurch at the time and stopped at a cafe not far from the outskirts of the city. It was there that I felt it...

What did I learn from this experience? To keep things in your car at all times....water, warm clothes, blankets, dried food, even spare medication and reading glasses. Of course a first aid kit.

The way my friend acted by laughing and making jokes was infuriating and I couldnt get through to him about the seriousness of the situation. But then he was English and not accustomed to the earthquake drills we grew up with at school and also in the workplace so I was able to think on the spot.

Thank you, Tracy Anne, for this contribution. A bad experience for you, but you kept calm and had a clear head because you were prepared by the drills. I have nothing in my car except a small bottle of water and a very basic first aid kit. I will definitely remedy that as you suggest above, in case something bad happens when I am on the road or need to very quickly leave my home because of some disaster.

Sounds if your friend was very scared and did not have the faintest idea how to handle a dangerous situation.

 

[michaelrc]

"KNOWLEDGE PROTECTS, IGNORANCE ENDANGERS"...Most folks on this forum are here for "KNOWLEDGE". What is it that we have learned from this forum about the cosmos and it's cycles? I don't think, "KNOWLEDGE PROTECTS, IGNORANCE ENDANGERS", has ever been interpeted to mean a guardian angel that somehow protects us. I also don't understand the meaning of, "IT'S NOT WHERE YOU ARE, IT'S WHO YOU ARE", to be interpeted in the manner that we will not transition out of our bodies ( come hell or high water), because we were prepared for neither.

"KNOWLEDGE", about the cosmos and it's cycles was meant to empower us, not have an opposite effect.

If we do nothing for ourselves with this "KNOWLEDGE", then whose problem do we become?

I hope this doesn't sound presumptuous?



.

 

[Tracy Anne]

Tracy Anne quote:

I had the experience of the Christchurch earthquake in 2011. Though not in the city centre, I was driving into Christchurch at the time and stopped at a cafe not far from the outskirts of the city. It was there that I felt it...

What did I learn from this experience? To keep things in your car at all times....water, warm clothes, blankets, dried food, even spare medication and reading glasses. Of course a first aid kit.

The way my friend acted by laughing and making jokes was infuriating and I couldnt get through to him about the seriousness of the situation. But then he was English and not accustomed to the earthquake drills we grew up with at school and also in the workplace so I was able to think on the spot.

Thank you, Tracy Anne, for this contribution. A bad experience for you, but you kept calm and had a clear head because you were prepared by the drills. I have nothing in my car except a small bottle of water and a very basic first aid kit. I will definitely remedy that as you suggest above, in case something bad happens when I am on the road or need to very quickly leave my home because of some disaster.

Sounds if your friend was very scared and did not have the faintest idea how to handle a dangerous situation.

It is interesting to know how people can react differently in a crisis situation. We assume that everyone will be alert and be able to make rational sensible decisions but this is not the case. Some people become paralysed with fear or just carry on like nothing is happening around them, and yes some, like my friend, make jokes to cope with the stress. What I did find though, was he just went along with my decisions and didnt have any input, which put a lot of responsibility on me, however it was a good opportunity to test out my skills and I surprised myself.

My husband (Esoterica) and I like to go camping on the weekends (in summer) with basic equipment as we really enjoy getting out in nature. Soon I would like to go with even more basic equipment.....maybe a test survival night just to see how we would fare.

Ynna glad you found the car advice useful. I must add a few things like a small single cooker, a small pot to boil water too, and some waterproof clothing. Especially when driving at night you never know what you might encounter. A torch would be useful.