Survival Experiments

nicklebleu said:
One thing that I would like to bring up that might sound gross, but might be a lifesaver in certain circumstances: Worms make very dense nutrition. I know this sounds gross (and I admit, I haven't tried that yet, although I am planning to do that in a short while). I guess to just fry them quickly in a pan would make them quite "crunchy". And they are almost everywhere ...

That is true for almost all insects - with some notable exceptions: moths and caterpillars come to mind. Some of them are toxic.

I'll report back once I have taken the leap!

Some crunchy fried worms might start sounding good if hungry enough.

I recently read somewhere that all birds, in the US at least, are edible. I believe that even goes for buzzards. Some insects
are considered a delicacy in some parts of the world, then there's fish.

But in that "NOW", worries about food, clean water, etc. may be somewhat more trivial than I currently expect, as the C's said, it's who
we are and what we see. Perhaps its about staying healthy enough to focus and think clearly about what will be happening.
 
Mark said:
I recently read somewhere that all birds, in the US at least, are edible. I believe that even goes for buzzards. Some insects
are considered a delicacy in some parts of the world, then there's fish.

But in that "NOW", worries about food, clean water, etc. may be somewhat more trivial than I currently expect, as the C's said, it's who
we are and what we see. Perhaps its about staying healthy enough to focus and think clearly about what will be happening.


What we see on a practical level, I think, translates directly into our resourcefulness in utilizing our knowledge and networks to take care of ourselves and others and give back. So I personally wouldn't feel silly or distracted if I was thinking about these things; the info could save lives down the road. :)


Also, an edible bird or animal just means non-poisonous. Considering the parasite load some carrion birds could carry, I would only resort to them as a last resort after roasting the petunias out of them.
 
Xico quote:
...also I am fully Keto-adapted, so hopefully we can get out alive of any event....

That is wonderful to be fully Keto-adapted, Xico, you are far ahead of me. How are you planning to find your meat and fats should there be a great catastrophe and you cannot buy it? Are you an experienced hunter, or do you count a cattle rancher among your close friends? Do you have preserved meat stocked, and how long will it keep edible? I would very much like to know what you are planning in this regard, as I know very little - indeed nothing - about emergency supplies for a Ketogenic diet.

Ynna
 
sitting quote:
My own belief is that a network is immensely more powerful. But circumstances might be forcing me to go the solitary route.

Mark quote:
It's sad that most people think of themselves as so independent and autonomous, when some sort of local, supportive network of some kind would also be of benefit. I'm guilty of that as well, we hardly ever even acknowledge each other in our neighborhood.

Those who will have a supportive network living close by during a catastrophe, a network who can contribute their emergency supplies and practical survival skills, will be very fortunate indeed. A group usually has a greater chance surviving, supporting each other in all kinds of ways, than a single person on his/her own. A group must be well organised, however: food and water rationed, hygiene strictly controlled, knowing how to care for sick and depressed people - they may be far away from their loved ones, uncertain about their well being, etc.

nicklebleu quote:
One thing that I would like to bring up that might sound gross, but might be a lifesaver in certain circumstances: Worms make very dense nutrition. I know this sounds gross (and I admit, I haven't tried that yet, although I am planning to do that in a short while). I guess to just fry them quickly in a pan would make them quite "crunchy". And they are almost everywhere ...

That is true for almost all insects - with some notable exceptions: moths and caterpillars come to mind. Some of them are toxic.

I'll report back once I have taken the leap!

Nancy2feathers quote:
I was thinking about growing some red wigglers. Could be a back up source of protein!

Can't wait to have your feedback on this one, nicklebleu! You and Nancy2feathers inspired me to go looking for earth worm recipes on the internet, and I found the interesting site of Deane Green, who is a modern day forager. There are some recipes on his website: http://www.eattheweeds.com/cooking-with-earthworms-2/. How do these sound:

Earthworm Saute; Earthworm Patties; Earthworm Meatloaf; Earthworm Applesauce Surprise Cake...

whitecoast quote:
Cool story. I'd personally be cautious about fasting for 3 weeks, since prolongued starvation can release cortisol which mines your tissues, organs and bones for nutrients to burn for fuel. Depending on your body fat %, it may not be worth the damage. Just my two cents though.

Lilou quote:
That reminds me of that tv show, Survivor. The contestants were severely calorie restricted in most cases - I believe they had a fairly steady diet of white rice, but little fat or protein. The fattest guy ended up being the winner - he was also the best fisherman. But the skinnies were very frail and some of them looked like they'd been in a Nazi Death Camp by the end of the show. (That early episode winner was Richard Hatch, who went to jail for not paying the taxes on his million dollar win)

So I agree with whitecoast, I would be cautious about fasting.

You are probably right, a long fast is not recommended. But I had to know if it is true that one can survive for a couple of weeks only drinking water. It's like those medical doctors who experiment on themselves to test something to know the value of their theory. Empirical knowledge gives confidence and lessens fear, so I dived in.
 
I've not tried anything quite as extreme as zero food and zero power. But I have over the last two winters as well as this one, not turned on the heating system. -This was to save money on heating bills, as well as to experience what it would be like to deal directly with cold for a few months.

-I set the thermostat so that should the indoor temp drop below 6 degrees above freezing, it would turn on the heating system. -This was to avoid damaging the plumbing. The heating typically comes on two or three times per Winter during those dangerously cold nights. It's pretty disgusting when it does as dust collected in the heaters produces a nasty-smell. Cooking flesh, if I understand it correctly. Yuck. I don't like it when the heat turns on!

Anyway.., aside from saving about $1500 per Winter on electricity, I have learned a few things...

1. My body takes about 2-3 weeks to adapt to the onset of the cold season. I'd feel cold and unhappy, until... Something shifts and then 10 degrees above freezing, while still not comfortable, doesn't really slow me down. The most difficult aspect is that my hands become cold and it is hard to work with them. -But I find that going over to other people's houses which are heated to normal "room temps" has me sweating and feeling uncomfortably over-heated even in light clothing.

2. Sleeping in a cold environment is really quite enjoyable. Getting into a cold bed is challenging, but after a few seconds, things warm up and it feels great to be under a heavy load of extra blankets. It can take quite a while for my toes and knees to warm up if I've gone to bed really cold, but in the morning it's like waking to find yourself in a lovely warm burrito hug. On really cold nights, I find breathing to be uncomfortable; my mucus membranes don't like it at all. I discovered that bunching up a bit of one of the thin cotton sheets near my face solved that; like breathing through a puff ball, it leaves enough gaps for fresh air to come in, but holds enough heat from my breath to keep the inside of my nose from freeze drying. -I recall reading that foxes and other furry animals would tuck their muzzles into their tail fur when sleeping for similar reasons.

3. The first Winter was the worst! My nose was constantly red and dripping from the cold, eventually became raw and painful, and I just couldn't seem to get warm enough ever. Two pairs of wool socks, many layers of leggings and sweaters.., and I'd still get so cold that I'd lose feeling in my toes and fingers. I was only a few months into Keto adoption the first time, so I was also feeling weird and a bit sick to my stomach. The whole experience was thoroughly miserable, but I stuck it out, figuring, "It's only four months. I may have to do this for real, so let's buck up and quit complaining." It was a very pleasant surprise when things got better after the first three weeks. Still, even then I'd sometimes get so cold that I'd be shivering uncontrollably and have to take a hot shower to warm up. With no hot water during a real emergency, I don't know what I would have done! -Probably have spent more time in bed under all those blankets. -And bear in mind, this is all in an environment which was *above freezing* at all times! My apartment retains some heat from cooking and light bulbs and body heat and such. I keep blankets over the window wells, and that helps keep some heat in. But being reduced to a shuddering mess in 12 degrees told me I wasn't doing well.

This (my third) Winter is much easier. Partly this is due to my having the routine down; I know what to wear and when to retreat to bed before I get too cold. I haven't needed any emergency showers to warm up. No deep shivering episodes. With my Keto diet well established, I notice that my hands and fingers rarely get so cold that I can't work; my circulation is obviously much better than it was. (Thank-you Pork and Butter!)

Mind you, I also spend time going out to heated places; my job place is very warm, and I'll visit cafes and such during my days off. I spend about a third of my total time away from home in warm places, so the experiment is not entirely realistic in terms of what an actual society-wide extended heatless Winter would be like.

The big lessons I've learned from the last three Winters are these: "Before you get too cold, retreat to bed with a book. There's a reason animals hibernate! Once you've warmed up you can get up for another couple of hours. It's okay to swing between certain body-temp boundaries, but getting too cold is hard to come back from, and without any heat resources, (like hot showers), it can be dangerous."

And the other lesson is that it's *not* business as usual in the Winter. I'm not an Eskimo; as well-adapted as I've become, I find I'm never quite comfortable; I vaguely feel like I'm surviving rather than living. I really value the warm months now!

And finally, I'd like to move at some point to live in a house with a wood stove. Electric heat is not a good plan.
 
Ynna said:
Those who will have a supportive network living close by during a catastrophe, a network who can contribute their emergency supplies and practical survival skills, will be very fortunate indeed.


Yes. I agree.

That sort of network I have. And even if one or two bad apples are in the cart, it can be tolerated. But in a spiritual and psychic "network", you really have to KNOW who and what they are. It takes a long time. And after that ... comes a lengthy period of refining sympathetic resonance. It's not easy, just ask the Crew.

A case in point -- my own family (and I love them dearly -- all good apples) is not part of my "network". Here detachment is vital. And it's also a way of easing the pain.
 
Woodsman said:
1. My body takes about 2-3 weeks to adapt to the onset of the cold season. I'd feel cold and unhappy, until... Something shifts and then 10 degrees above freezing, while still not comfortable, doesn't really slow me down. The most difficult aspect is that my hands become cold and it is hard to work with them. -But I find that going over to other people's houses which are heated to normal "room temps" has me sweating and feeling uncomfortably over-heated even in light clothing.

Thanks Woodsman for describing your experience :) - just to comment on your point above. After praticing cold theraphy and really cold showers over the last 6 months (some days i have had showers at water between 5-8 degrees celcius) - and then sleeping in a room around 15 degrees celsius - i too have gotten really used to cold temperature although i never really am fully comfortable as you mentioned. My fingers get the coldest too, though circulation has improved better under the Keto diet.

Just 2 weeks ago, i went back to the tropics (i am from Malaysia but i dont live there now) after a 4 month gap from the last visit, all the while doing cold theraphy - and i was really uncomfortable - it was 35 degrees C, and i was melting. It was very uncomfortable, and even in the cool air conditioning, i could not get used to the heat. I too felt like i was overheating, and i had trouble sleeping for 2 days in the heat despite air-conditioning, and daily cold showers (although the water temp is between 20-23 in the tropics). its interesting how that after 6 months of cold adaption, i am now unable to get used to the tropics, where i spent 20 years of my life :)!
 
We had a power outage in the middle of the night a few weeks ago. It was one of the coldest nights of the year with ice and snow falling. When I woke at 2:00 AM and noticed the power was off, I began to think about what it would be like if it didn't come back on for a long time. As I was warm in bed, it was easier to think. When I next woke about 6:00 AM, the power was still off. I got out of bed and it was down to about 42 degrees in the house. (We normally keep it at about 58 during the night, then up the heat to about 64 during the day.) So I put on layers of clothes and thought about starting the day. I work from home, so if the power wasn't on, I wouldn't be working. The water was still working, which was good. At least we could flush the toilet. Drinking water is always on hand, as we have a table top ceramic filter and keep jugs filled from that. I had just pulled out my camp stove and was about to make coffee when the power came back on and stayed on. So slowly, the house started to warm up, the sun rose and melted the ice.

I felt very thankful for the workers who had gone out during that storm to get our power back on. And I felt thankful to be warm. It was a very short experiment for me since most of the time I was in a warm bed. I can see the advantage of these experiments and the one I want to try is fasting, not only for the survival experiment, but for health benefits.

Regarding eating worms, etc., my area has hundreds of grasshoppers during the summer, so if I had no other food, I certainly would not starve.

Thanks for all the good info.
 
Note to a moderator:

Somehow I thought the thread 'Preparedness' is about cooking methods, but I have now discovered it is actually about different methods of survival, and so I have unnecessarily started this thread, 'Survival Experiments'.

Will it not be better to integrate these posts there?

So sorry about that!

Ynna
 
Thank you ynna, for starting it here, i'm not looking for survival preparedness, while, it's tomuch about stuff, things one "needs". Like you, i tried some years ago, to not eat. I read about breathatarians, and it inspired me. It was in the tropics, at an pacific beach. What if this needing to eat is a scam, i thought, all this killing and destruction for nothing? i had a deep sadness about how we treat this world. And from one minute to the next, i stopped consuming, had consumed enough, hate consuming.. And it was easy, when you make the decision, even not smoking. PTB keeps us afraid, needy. I think 24 days i did. After three days i felt good, light, not hungry. One thing: fruit(juice) is worse than nothing, if you break the fast, do it for proteine or fat!! Never sugar!

About sleeping in frost: find someone to sleep with, probably a skinny person is best.
About the network: My network will eat my emergency rations very fast..
 
Sitting quote:
...But the C's said "Do not be fearful! You are armed with much knowledge!" They did not say "Do not be fearful! You are armed with much goods!"

And therein lies the rub.

I've searched and searched, here and elsewhere. And it always comes back to spiritual and psychic preparation. It's in Laura's work ... in spades. It's in Castaneda's writings. I find it in both Taoist and Buddhist cannons.

Here are some interesting specifics:

To gain graduation, C's once mentioned it's done only through "karmic lessons & simple understandings." The key appears to be these simple understandings ... whatever they might be. I have a few guesses.

Upon graduation, we're granted "variable physicality." That means greater (but not total) facility for instant thought materialization, into events & objects. I think the key here is thought, it's intensity and its coherence. But I could be wrong.

Ra said "the dissolution into nothingness ... is the dissolution into unity." And the C's said "one on 4th density perceives objects in terms of their own union with all of them." In other words, unity.

And last but not least, a conduit construction. Alone or in a group. The C's have said "network needed". The Buddhist say "solitary".

It's been both a struggle and a fascination for me these past few months. Feeling the onrush of heightened energy.


I have pondered what you said above, Sitting. It reminded me that we shouldn't get so involved with survival - after the information in the Session of 14 March 2015 that the time is upon us for some big upheavals - that we forget about the bigger picture.

I recall something Gurdjieff wrote and quoted by Laura at http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,6399.15.html:

A man identifies with a small problem which confronts him and he completely forgets the great aims with which he began his work. He identifies with one thought and forgets other thoughts; he is identified with one feeling, with one mood, and forgets his own wider thoughts, emotions, and moods. In work on themselves people are so much identified with separate aims that they fail to see the wood for the trees. Two or three trees nearest to them represent for them the whole wood.

Thus, physically surviving the problems coming our way, should not be our only thought and goal. Keeping that in mind, we'll be practical and at the same time continue to work on ourselves - build that ark Xico is talking not on the edge of the wood but in the middle of it so that we may very much stay aware of all the rest of the trees surrounding us and making up the wood.
 
I do not believe that one can prepare for the apocalypse - even in principal. Except with knowledge. You can live for weeks without food but only days without water. Most preppers do not have the natural ratios worked out. They have a year's supply of food and a week's supply of water. In two weeks you are dead from thirst - or worse - you are sick as a dog from drinking contaminated water.

Also, in the event of an apocalypse, there will be two kinds of people: those with surplus and those without. Those without (a large number) will quickly become hungry and desperate and will attempt to take from those with (a small number). In the end, everyone will be left with nothing.

I live in Arizona which has a large LDS population. LDS believers are widely known to be preppers, so they store food. Guess what happens in a disaster? Large number of desperate people will seek out the LDS households because this is where the supplies are. A LDS friend of mine is a big believer in self defense, so he has guns and a large store of ammunition. He misses the point that when he is outnumbered 100:1, he isn't going to be able to shoot them fast enough. Plus he will have to sleep eventually.

In the apocalypse, everything you know goes away and you are left to your wits. Mostly you are left to your self-control. Saving food or going without electricity is no long term survival strategy. Knowing simple first aid is. In Arizona, knowing what a cottonwood tree looks like is a survival strategy because cottonwood trees require a year-round supply of water. Having a copy of the US Army survival manual handy is a survival strategy. Knowing the mathematics behind a parabola is a survival strategy (so you know how to make a solar oven out of stuff you can find). Keeping control over your panic in desperate situations is a survival strategy. Knowing your local geography is a survival strategy. Knowing the best route to the mountains on the highway is not because very quickly these will become clogged with abandoned vehicles.

The "Cs" are completely correct in that the only thing that you can truly prepare is knowledge. It is the only thing that fundamentally *cannot* be taken away from you.
 
Quote Mr.Cyan:
nicklebleu - fully second the worms and the insect advice - this will be the most abundant source of protein that will be easily and readily available in food scarcity, and is a good bet for survival. Next easiest source of food will be fishing either at sea or fresh water bodies. Hunting is difficult, and traps or snares are better; but will require a lot of effort.

The best thing to do is to experiment with eating worms and insects now - not only keeping them in mind as a possible food source in an emergency. (I hope I never have to eat creepy crawlies.) Mr.Cyan, are you going to test eating worms like nicklebleu, or grasshoppers? That will be fantastic, as we need to hear from people who have actually experimented with survival theories.

You mention fishing, hunting and snaring. Have you done any of this yet to prepare yourself in case you need to do it in real life? If yes, can you give some good advice on your methods that you have tested, please?

Fishing is possibly something I need to learn to do speedily. I have only been a gatherer up until very recently (long-time vegetarian). Don't know any angling techniques - hope I don't get all tangled up in the tackle. I do not even have any tackle... But perhaps a basic pole, line and hook will suffice? Perhaps an experienced angler here can give some practical tips for absolute beginners, "Fishing for dummies".
 
rs quote:
I do not believe that one can prepare for the apocalypse - even in principal. Except with knowledge. You can live for weeks without food but only days without water. Most preppers do not have the natural ratios worked out. They have a year's supply of food and a week's supply of water. In two weeks you are dead from thirst - or worse - you are sick as a dog from drinking contaminated water.

Also, in the event of an apocalypse, there will be two kinds of people: those with surplus and those without. Those without (a large number) will quickly become hungry and desperate and will attempt to take from those with (a small number). In the end, everyone will be left with nothing.

I live in Arizona which has a large LDS population. LDS believers are widely known to be preppers, so they store food. Guess what happens in a disaster? Large number of desperate people will seek out the LDS households because this is where the supplies are. A LDS friend of mine is a big believer in self defense, so he has guns and a large store of ammunition. He misses the point that when he is outnumbered 100:1, he isn't going to be able to shoot them fast enough. Plus he will have to sleep eventually.

In the apocalypse, everything you know goes away and you are left to your wits. Mostly you are left to your self-control. Saving food or going without electricity is no long term survival strategy. Knowing simple first aid is. In Arizona, knowing what a cottonwood tree looks like is a survival strategy because cottonwood trees require a year-round supply of water. Having a copy of the US Army survival manual handy is a survival strategy. Knowing the mathematics behind a parabola is a survival strategy (so you know how to make a solar oven out of stuff you can find). Keeping control over your panic in desperate situations is a survival strategy. Knowing your local geography is a survival strategy. Knowing the best route to the mountains on the highway is not because very quickly these will become clogged with abandoned vehicles.

The "Cs" are completely correct in that the only thing that you can truly prepare is knowledge. It is the only thing that fundamentally *cannot* be taken away from you.

Experimenting with survival techniques = knowledge. So we are in full agreement on that point, rs. (We try to discuss techniques/strategies here, and not so much what should be on one's survival list, unless it is relevant to the survival technique one was testing.)

After experimenting with not eating for 3 weeks, I now have the certain knowledge that I can survive that long without food (as long as I have water), and I know I have at least that long to find food sources, whereas someone who has never tried fasting, will start eyeing the corpses around him/her after not having eaten for only a couple of days, fearing that s/he is already in the last stages of the starvation process. Having lived through dark nights for a couple of weeks, gave me the knowledge of how to move in near total darkness in a very large house with several stairways (dangerous) located on a hilltop (no one will hear me scream for help), and I learned to overcome my fear of things lurking in the dark - I learned the self-control you mention above, having been afraid of the dark since my childhood days.

You are right that in a cataclysmic situation everything changes and you will not be able to keep to carefully laid plans and "survival rules". So it is wise to keep the Duke of Wellington's advice in mind when he was asked how his officers managed to regularly have victories over Napoleon. He said that his enemies' plans were like constructing beautiful harnesses and that they worked well - until it broke. Then they were doomed. But he (Wellington) planned his battles with ropes: when something goes wrong, he makes a knot and goes on.

One has to rely on one's knowledge, common sense and instincts in solving immediate problems and use whatever you have at hand, instead of always searching or waiting for the ideal solution.

Hope that you will be sharing your empirical knowledge of survival techniques with us, rs. For instance, you told us you know that a cotton wood tree can supply water, if I understood correctly. But have you actually tapped water from it yourself - how did you go about extracting water from this tree? How much could you extract from one tree? What did its water taste like?
 
rs said:
The "Cs" are completely correct in that the only thing that you can truly prepare is knowledge.

I agree. But there's a bit more.

There exist this corollary ... mentioned but not really driven home. So sometimes we forget.

It's that linkage of knowledge to a conduit. The conduit to a successful density transit. The density transit to then continued existence -- in a new realm. A realm where the living do not envy the dead.

That's the desired sequence.

Knowledge then is the initiator. Not the end product. And this is not surprising. The C's have said the ultimate goal for all consciousness is "union with the ONE." Knowledge being the vehicle to eventually get you there. You find this in most religions. But I could be all wrong.
 
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