'Survivors' by Terry Nation British TV series 1975-19

[Gwenllian]

And I also thought of how and if it is even possible to make people see this pathology - say, I find myself in a group of peeps and a dangerous pathological is wreaking havoc, but upon calling him out, everyone else will just excuse him/her, a la "But we need each other, don't make waves here." etc. And that's just one possible scenario.

My thoughts exactly. Many people simply don't want (cannot?) see, even with repeated evidence. People have these huge programs of 'judge not lest ye be judged' and they just throw all common sense out of the window because of it. I see it every day. Pathological people hurting others purposefully, and when the victims are told the truth about them, they still choose the side of the pathologicals... It's quite disheartening. And since psychopaths in hard times will try to take over and lead people for their own gain and since many people are authoritarian followers afraid of thinking by themselves and too happy that s.o. volunteers to guide them, there's yet another recipe for disaster...

If such a situation would occur, and there are atleast some people (or even one person) who would agree that there is (or are) a pathological person within the group manipulating and causing distress, I would then rather leave the group with the people who agree that this person is causing havoc, than to stay and see how ignorant everyone is being with more and more (emotional or even physical) damage being done. Would it be wiser to leave and put energy and effort into other things? Or would it be best to stay as there is the possibility that when the damage done by this pathological person becomes so obvious and so problematic that atleast some more people would notice? But then as you guys say, there are the "forgive and forget" people, and such dynamics in a group can be quite tiring, like having a repeated harmful cycle going on. So maybe then the best thing would be to leave and to try to atleast form some kind of balanced group, if possible, and to spread awareness of this type of people, and at the same time work on things that are important, like sharing food, thinking about what to do next and so forth. I could be wrong here in my thinking, so fwiw.

If the past (of pathology) is of indication of future, pathologicals won't allow to choose as they are parasites. their strength is other obedience. freedom is as contagious as pathology. Literally all freedom struggles are full of these examples. The only choice is educating the non pathologicals rather secretly , thus countering/cutting the wings of pathologicals. If more pathologicals survive than normal people, the game is already lost.

I've only seen the first 3 episodes, but similar questions have been on my mind. If pathologicals try to usurp power within a group, then they will not allow anyone to walk away so easily. Obedience is their source of power, and to see someone leave the group of their own accord will send shockwaves throughout and the narcissistic rage the pathological feels will then be turned against the person leaving. At that point it could be costly to your life if you were to leave, because they might use you as a message to others who would even think about it.

Yes, you will see that in 'Law of the Jungle'.

I could be wrong, but I think this is why it's important, early on, to watch out for pathological behaviour in anyone and separate them from the reasonably minded. It might even have to become a game of chess to alert other's to the danger's of the situation. Being Wise as a serpent, but gentle as a dove.

I agree. We could think of some kind of strategy, practise in different circumstances maybe?

I saw this during the Occupy Movement, how many people wanted to do good, but a few pathological types were so charismatic that they could win over the allegiances of a few and form these little 'cliques'. And even though they were just a few, because they were unified under these pathologicals, they were intimidating and could attract other's to them, just like the show. It then became a situation of trying to camp together with them which was impossible, because slowly they would encroach more and more, win over others who were unsure of themselves and easily influenced. I watched this go on wondering how to combat this? A lot of the reasonably minded people would get fed up and let them do as they please or leave the movement.

Yes, I have seen the same happen in the home education community. One person has taken over completely, dominates and controls the information that is coming out, keeps others in the lurch, spreads malicious gossip about professionals, because he is making money off the people that trust him and come to him for legal advice. It is quite horrendous to watch. I decided to step out, because there was nothing I could do. Although I have been secretly informing others who wish to hear about this pathological person. He also uses sexual abuse as a weapon, although it seems to others that are naive that he just loves women and wishes to support them by giving them a cuddle and kisses. In front of his wife and children. He oversteps the boundaries of all concerned and goes for the weaker type of woman and man that look up to him.
But he is just talk. He talks and talks and talks, but you can't make head or tails of what he is saying. Which is of course another way of confusing his victims.
At one point I tried to warn people about the ways of the bureaucracy they have to deal with and he immediately attacked me and questioned the validity of what I was saying.
I have given him quite a bit of thought over the years and have learnt a lot by just observing him and the others around him. When there are people that question him others immediately come to his defense. Astonishing. They are like little children that want to please the parent. That is my impression anyway.

 

[Gwenllian]

I've watched the first three episodes, and not that it was intentional on the part of the producers, but did chuckle a bit when I noticed that most all of the survivors were smokers. I have not looked for the 2008 version, but wondered if the smoking had been cut. With the anti-smoking campaigns in full swing, I suspect no smoking in the newer production.

That's true ;). But later on there is a bit of a spin for anti smoking as I understood it, it was subtle though (in the 1975 version).

Yes and there is a subtle anti-meat stance, when Charles says that you cannot survive on meat alone!

Although, herbs and homeopathic medicine are introduced to the viewers. Even one of the characters survives the plague as the only one in a hospital, because he always used homeopathic remedies! Which reminds me of an article on SOTT where it was said that people that used these remedies during the 1918 epidemic had survived.

Episode: Mad Dog
While searching for the rabies/hydrophobia connection, I found this:

Given that viruses are under intense evolutionary pressure to optimise their structure and to compete with both immune systems and other strains, I doubt that it's a negative adaptation, and I'm finding it hard to believe it's exactly neutral. Rabies has been around a while and even the slightest negativity would have vanished; it would have to be exactly neutral and that seems unlikely.

I suspect that the fact that rabies is spread through virus in the saliva is the key here. A sufferer will over-salivate, and have muscle spasms if they try to swallow -- all these are geared towards getting the virus out of the current victim and into the environment. Virus which stays in the patient dies with them -- it only survives if it escapes.

So making the patient scared to drink water could prevent them washing away all that produced virus-laden saliva... making it an advantage.

Thanks for this. I watched 'Mad Dog' yesterday and I had to pause afterwards and do something else, just to process the events. I was telling my kids about the role of water afterwards and my eldest son tried to look it up, but couldn't find the answer.
As they said these dogs turned wild hunting in packs are a serious problem and a threat to the safety of humans. I was wondering why the dogs had left the urban areas. Wouldn't all these rats serve as food?
And I was wondering how safe meat would be. Could we eat rabbits, sheep and other animals when all kinds of diseases crop up? I was wondering if and how animals survived the plague and other diseases.

"Gone to the angels" is a very sad chapter. What I saw in this one is also how people are attached to their beliefs, their "God" that will not save them of the Plague and how some people accepted everything "in the name of God". No rebellion, no anger.

In fact, there is no anger in this series, for now, and the only one who is sometimes angry is the old woman with an accent. This woman expresses emotion and feelings but the rest of the crew very little. Maybe to express emotions is not very "British", I don't know. Maybe if you are confronted to something like this anger gives place to acceptance? But anger is a very human feeling, where is anger in the Survivors? And if there is anger, is it acceptable?

I was just thinking about this...

I would say anger is very acceptable, as long as people do not take it out on others. Maybe that is what really happened to Barney? All that latent outrage that they couldn't express due to their cultural upbringing? And all that stiff upper lip outrage finds another way.
Having said that, most people do not accept healthy anger and outrage. Not their own and that of others.

 

[loreta]

I would say anger is very acceptable, as long as people do not take it out on others. Maybe that is what really happened to Barney? All that latent outrage that they couldn't express due to their cultural upbringing? And all that stiff upper lip outrage finds another way.
Having said that, most people do not accept healthy anger and outrage. Not their own and that of others.

Mariana, you have surely a point here. I think you are right. This scene make me remember the story of Frankenstein where the mob go against him because he is "different". In Frankenstein, he kill a little girl, but the mob go against him with anger for many reasons, it is a mob anger of poor people that are ignorant and that are unable to think intelligently and that take justice in their hands. Barney is the scapegoat. And people that can not express anger with intelligence do always things that are regrettable.

 

[Muxel]

probably completely cut off from the network here.

I have had this thought; each time it suggests to me the necessity of sponging up as much as I can. In Terry Pratchett's Small Gods, the main character who has absolute (eidetic) memory is made to memorize the entire Library of Ephebe (fictional counterpart of the Library of Alexandria) before it is to be burned down. So I suppose DNA (i.e. Being) is the most viable way:

I watched 'Mad Dog' yesterday and I had to pause afterwards and do something else, just to process the events.

Yes - it certainly was a tough episode.

As they said these dogs turned wild hunting in packs are a serious problem and a threat to the safety of humans. I was wondering why the dogs had left the urban areas. Wouldn't all these rats serve as food?

Hmm... maybe the dog packs were experiencing overpopulation in the cities, or maybe there was no more food for the rats and the rat population crashed.

And I was wondering how safe meat would be. Could we eat rabbits, sheep and other animals when all kinds of diseases crop up? I was wondering if and how animals survived the plague and other diseases.

I'm not sure. The episode New Arrivals points out that farm animals have lost their "natural immunity" because of all the drugs they're given, thus the post-apocalypse animals are "vulnerable". I do not agree. Cows are full of E. coli because they are fed grain. Disease, I think, is Nature's way of addressing an imbalance. I think hunter-gathering is "safe" since it does not meddle with Nature:[quote author=Wikipedia]In traditional nomadic herding, reindeer herders migrate with their herds between coast and inland areas according to an annual migration route and herds are keenly tended.[/quote]On cometary plague, well, I thought it's not so much a "plague" but rather the oft-described "corruption of the atmosphere":[quote author=New Light on the Black Death: The Cosmic Connection]Before the earthquake, a pestiferous wind spread so poisonous an odour that many, being overpowered by it, fell down suddenly and expired in dreadful agonies[/quote]Some fanciful guesses: Extreme radiation causing superaccelerated fatal mutation? Deadly ozone/free-radical gas?[quote author=New Light on the Black Death: The Cosmic Connection]claimed that in September floods of frogs and serpents throughout India had presaged the coming to Europe in January of the three pestilential Genoese galleys[/quote]Is a comet airburst something like an EMP? Because if so:
[quote author=http://www.naturalnews.com/034344_EMP_weapons_electronics_modern_civilization.html]When "detonated," an EMP weapon produces a pulse of energy that creates a powerful electromagnetic field ...[/quote]... it could explain the Fortean phenomena.

 

[shellycheval]

Knowing what we know about a probable future makes watching this series a vastly different experience on an emotional level than just watching it as escapist entertainment from "normal" life--the irony makes it difficult going at times. It is the same for me when watching films like The Road and Children of Men except the slow pace of this series and the focus on working out details of everyday survival clearly make this a primer for what not to do under the same circumstances, as well as provide suggestions for how to make do--like the idea of a foot pump to retrieve gas from underground storage tanks.

And after two of them knew the truth about Wendy's murder, they still kept him because he was needed/useful. Sure, he murdered someone, but he's got a good pare of spare hands, so why not keep him?? Greg's last decision was extremely poor, not just because of his total lack of perspective of the overall situation, but even using his own very narrow reasoning which seems to be strictly confined to the number of people they have, what about the fact that Price has made them lose 4 spare hands?

The character, Greg's false logic regarding Barney is especially maddening--his argument about having to kill Barney because they can't allow a killer to continue to live among them because of the safety of the children is completely turned around when he decides to allow Price to live because they need him--when Price has been more of a liability than an asset all along, makes no sense. I like to think that this is the result of poor writing rather that a reflection of reality, but who can know?

For a while now I have felt gratitude almost daily for the blessing that remain in my life like a nice home, clean bed, good roof, enough good food, clean water. I am especially happy having electricity--it goes out often enough around here for a long enough time (up to 10 days once) to make me very conscious of what life will be without it. This show works for me as a very visual incentive to "make hay while the sun shines" and work out strategies for surviving hard times.

SeekinTruth

However, many of us will probably be facing these situations alone, probably completely cut off from the network here.

By alone, I mean, those that have been acquiring the knowledge that will be crucial, yet must somehow try to convey it to others (that likely have no clue) in "the heat of the moment." Many, many of us will be put to the test as far as our level of discernment and external consideration is concerned, yet getting across what needs to be understood by others. And all this without being able to network about it if we feel unsure of certain things. It's really been going around and around in my mind.

Me too.
shellycheval

 

[Gwenllian]

I finished watching the entire thing -- all 3 series. Among many other things, the one thing I've been thinking about is that many of these scenarios (and more/worse) are very likely to happen in the near future. However, many of us will probably be facing these situations alone, probably completely cut off from the network here.

By alone, I mean, those that have been acquiring the knowledge that will be crucial, yet must somehow try to convey it to others (that likely have no clue) in "the heat of the moment." Many, many of us will be put to the test as far as our level of discernment and external consideration is concerned, yet getting across what needs to be understood by others. And all this without being able to network about it if we feel unsure of certain things. It's really been going around and around in my mind.

I am not sure whether I dreamt it up or whether I read it on SOTT, but I guess that telepathy would help? I am not sure whether it applies to me, but it seems to me that we can tap into this collective reservoir of the subconscience and in such a way support each other? So, we wouldn't be alone.
Also, under some circumstances we may still have access to Laura's books?
And I suspect that in these situations EE and the diet will play a crucial role. If we can continue to make a connection to our higher selves. Anyway, that is how I see it ATM.

I have finished watching all episodes and I have felt really depressed after the last ones.

** Spoiler alert**
The unmistakable faith in government, law enforcement, money (fractional banking is even touched upon), a political system with a leader (king), flag and all is so depressing. I thought I was going mad afterwards.
How keen people seemed to be to return to the old system despite their lessons and hardships and their hard earned independence. If something good came out of a disaster of these proportions surely it would be our independence, self-reliance and confidence? But without looking at the mistakes of the past they adopt the old system without even batting an eye.

Jenny gets the chance to stay with a good man in Scotland (a man that isn't angry the whole time, but is more sensitive to her needs, I would say), where it is safer, healthier and a better environment for her children. But instead, she returns to England. Well, this is an interesting lesson for me to consider. Also, the fact that she leaves behind her kids to chase after her man was upsetting. Maybe we women have to find that normal?

**

Anyway, I was thinking. At one point Charles I believe says that you need lots of people to make a community work. I remember a children's book that used to be one of my favourites, 'Farmer Boy' by Laura Ingalls Wilder. Here you have this big farm with only six people running it (parents and four kids). From time to time people come and help them, shearing sheep, slaughtering. But all in all, they manage as a family and still manage to sell horses, surplus butter and so on. They are almost self-sufficient. They make their own clothes, candles. They only buy their shoes and utensils from travelling salesmen.
Perhaps they had simpler needs, which makes it easier?

 

[MK Scarlett]

Also, under some circumstances we may still have access to Laura's books?

Yes agree. Lauras' books have to be kept in any circumstances, there are also important as reserves of candles, soaps or fat, at least it is my point of view. It could be our reserve of "bon sens" and trully useful to spread out the Truth and find answers on a specific question as they are now, as they will be "after".

[...]Anyway, I was thinking. At one point Charles I believe says that you need lots of people to make a community work. I remember a children's book that used to be one of my favourites, 'Farmer Boy' by Laura Ingalls Wilder. Here you have this big farm with only six people running it (parents and four kids). From time to time people come and help them, shearing sheep, slaughtering. But all in all, they manage as a family and still manage to sell horses, surplus butter and so on. They are almost self-sufficient. They make their own clothes, candles. They only buy their shoes and utensils from travelling salesmen.
Perhaps they had simpler needs, which makes it easier?

Simpler needs making life easier makes totally sense to me. Just go to the essential...

 

[Ollie]

From my experience today of being out on a U3A ramble (University of the third Age - pensioners), and an incident that occurred, one thing that is going to be important is knowledge of first aid procedures and what to do in an emergency situation. It transpired that none of us knew how to deal with something as simple as a 'grand mal' epilepsy attack. Other than calling the emergency services. As it happens all turned out well and the person concerned was eventually taken to hospital.

In the 'Survivor's' scenario we are likely to face far more serious problems, so a working knowledge of first aid procedures may be good training to invest in now.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

However, many of us will probably be facing these situations alone, probably completely cut off from the network here.

By alone, I mean, those that have been acquiring the knowledge that will be crucial, yet must somehow try to convey it to others (that likely have no clue) in "the heat of the moment." Many, many of us will be put to the test as far as our level of discernment and external consideration is concerned, yet getting across what needs to be understood by others. And all this without being able to network about it if we feel unsure of certain things. It's really been going around and around in my mind.

My thought exactly. Watching this series, it finally dawned on me that we probably won't, contrarily to what I was wishfully thinking, be all together as a community in the future, but rather, since we are literally from everywhere in the world, we will have to build new communities, each one of us, far from each other, with strangers.

I won't lie, it made me depressed. I realized that being so far apart from each other was maybe in some way 'intended'? Like little beacons of Truth (well, trying as best as we can to be at least) to be able spread these little nuggets of knowledge we were able to acquire here in this new world. Who knows if electricity, technology will be available? And I don't know about you guys, but to me, being cut off from you'all, not knowing if members here are doing OK, etc. is a very, very difficult thought indeed.

Well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, I guess. Just one of the many possibilities...

 

[agni]

What bothers a lot is what is going to happen to Nuclear Plants if they are not maintained ?
There are 435 of them on a planet.

104 in US
58 in France
50 in Japan
33 in Russia
20 in India
18 in Canada
16 in UK
10 in Sweden

:(

 

[MK Scarlett]

From my experience today of being out on a U3A ramble (University of the third Age - pensioners), and an incident that occurred, one thing that is going to be important is knowledge of first aid procedures and what to do in an emergency situation. It transpired that none of us knew how to deal with something as simple as a 'grand mal' epilepsy attack. Other than calling the emergency services. As it happens all turned out well and the person concerned was eventually taken to hospital.

In the 'Survivor's' scenario we are likely to face far more serious problems, so a working knowledge of first aid procedures may be good training to invest in now.

Yes, this could be an evidence, but I think you're right to focus on it. I always was amazed by seeing how people react when someone is suffering in front of them. I would like to tell a little story: Four years ago, we went with my husband, my first daughter and her "fiance" and my younger daughter spend the day outside by taking the "train" (actually the RER as we name it here...). At a moment a young woman felt bad and I had not saw it instantly because she was on my back, three rows behind me. But after have heard some noise, I returned to realize this woman was not well at all. By thinking she was maybe pregnant and felt faint, I went to see her, but she was not able to speak. Nobody had until there the idea to stop the train by emergency. Maybe it was better, because before to do it, I realized than we were arriving in a station and were stopping. As we were in the first wagon, I decided to run until the driver by the outside. I knocked at his door and explained to him what was happening. He did not start the train before rescue was arrived and take out her in a wheelchair. At this moment I was thinking it was better to not have stop the train before the station, because rescue would have had many problems to take out her in the middle of the fields.

What amazed me in this story is how I could see by myself how much people was not ready to do anything to help this woman, totally congealed by what passed in front of them, incapable to take a decision. I saw my mother many times in my life run to help wounded persons, by car accident, or also to probably save the life of a little girl who was playing the swing during a stop on the back home way. Several of these episodes touched me and stood out a lot to me. I did not decided to have a job in health/medicine like my mother, but that gave to me the curiosity about diseases and others emergencies we could have to face. I also can tell than before to get this curiosity, my son had an accident in front of me when he was a baby and I had to make face a situation which literally upset me, and I had been unable to react properly, except by crying with all the voice I had. At least, that warned a man who came to see what was happening and maybe saved my son's life. But if nobody had walked by there...

So, get training about emergency is a very good point, but manage our emotions too, especially when the emergency is about someone we love, someone we have to protect by definition, any person we care especially as a child of ours. My mother used to work in hospital and she never left her emotions take the controleven when it was about us, her children. The use/training of this knowledge all along a life surely gives a better control of itself, by taking some distance, for sure.

My thought exactly. Watching this series, it finally dawned on me that we probably won't, contrarily to what I was wishfully thinking, be all together as a community in the future, but rather, since we are literally from everywhere in the world, we will have to build new communities, each one of us, far from each other, with strangers.

I won't lie, it made me depressed. I realized that being so far apart from each other was maybe in some way 'intended'? Like little beacons of Truth (well, trying as best as we can to be at least) to be able spread these little nuggets of knowledge we were able to acquire here in this new world. Who knows if electricity, technology will be available? And I don't know about you guys, but to me, being cut off from you'all, not knowing if members here are doing OK, etc. is a very, very difficult thought indeed.

Well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, I guess. Just one of the many possibilities...

I agree with you Mrs.Tigersoap by thinking what could happen if electricity was cut. I guess we could try to stay connected by the EE "field" which could be the least. Couldn't it be an idea? Just a thought.
And yes we will cross that bridge in a way or another...

 

[loreta]

I am looking at the second series and I like them as much as the first ones. The second series are, it seems to me, more "practical". One thing that I don't understand is how come the survivors don't have medicines? This can be tragic and it is in one chapter. If you were taking food from stores why you did not went to a pharmacy? Strange.

I have a weird story me too concerning how people can not react in front of a wounded. Some years ago there was an accident in front of the building where I was living, a biker against a truck. From the third floor I hear someone yelling: "Ambulance!". I fled downstairs and what I saw was incredible: I saw the young biker on the ground, evidently bad hurt and around him, making a big circle, all the people just watching. They were just watching. So I broke the circle and went directly to the young man and took his hand and told him in his ear that everything was ok, that the doctors were coming... Then some people reacted and some came near the young man.

I was very sad to see that people are unable, sometimes, to help for many reasons: fear, timidity, etc. Even if it hurts I think you have to do something, and sometimes just talking to the person that is wounded is enough while waiting the ambulance. So in a case of surviving, where no ambulance is coming try to save a person is vital. That's why to know a little about how to help is extremely important.

 

[Corvus]

The unmistakable faith in government, law enforcement, money (fractional banking is even touched upon), a political system with a leader (king), flag and all is so depressing. I thought I was going mad afterwards.
How keen people seemed to be to return to the old system despite their lessons and hardships and their hard earned independence. If something good came out of a disaster of these proportions surely it would be our independence, self-reliance and confidence? But without looking at the mistakes of the past they adopt the old system without even batting an eye.

I don't see from where does hope for better system with this kind of men in this world comes from. If history is lesson, and if teaches that after numerous cataclysms people emerged again with sts hierarchical societies which were based on level of cruelty, coldness and lust the individual was ready to take to attain higher positions in the pyramid, then there's nothing new really. You can't expect from men with no inner insights or knowledge, consciousness to act positively when his life force is concentrated on selfish needs. How can that person be not selfish then. You can not expect from people that are mechanical in nature to not react in the same way when building a society, thinking and acting. Only thing they know is their years old programs that dominate them, here and there there is a spark that becomes overshadowed with personal fears and selfish needs. They do not see the alternative for their existence. STS is everything that exists for them.

About sharing some knowledge with them I don't think it will give something more positive. Most people, even if they hear you will do nothing because they are unfamiliar with that topic or lack evidence. So even if they are more open then others they will continue to behave the same way. So the end result is a waste of energy if you're lucky. If not you would be officially be crackpot so you would lose any influence altogether. With this kind of info being circulated on the internet most people are lazy to investigate it, and there is no life threatening situation. now have in mind that things would be much more worse in the future. Do you think they would be interested when the only thing to do would be to fill their bellies at any cost necessary. Nazi Germany is good example for what are people ready to do when their existence comes under threat. I think in future it would be much worse then that. Most people with good intentions tend to look at other people thorough their lens of perception, even that working on self, forgetting that the difference in their perception and their mental receiver can be enormous. Maybe the wiser way be to expose person as a something that is more familiar to people, like saying that he is like a greedy , corrupt politician, but then it wouldn't probably have much success because there would be always that authoritarian types. Not mentioning that the question of psychopathy would be solved, and the group would be widely open to it.

There can't be no cohesion in the groups without knowledge and consciousness among every member. Good example is the group in this series, even if they were more positive and had good intentions in comparison to some other groups they tended to make curve in their primary direction and end up on opposite direction in the 9-th episode( I watched only first 9 episodes so far.). So the men with some work on oneself and knowledge is in more inferior position then common men. i see the only way to influence group in more positive direction is through getting on higher position in group, but because of the nature of sto reality and no rules of engagement in sts reality it isn't an easy task. Individual can't adhere to strict rules and planning for every situation either because the reality is fluid and has many surprises. But I have hope there could be at least one individual who is maybe ready to do the right thing, not necessary work on oneself, but doing for the benefit of whole group not individual sts leader.

I find that series had many contradictions, or is it a good example of changing tides and personalities. In the second episode when those fascist want to murder that men Abby protests against killing, and in the 9-th episode she decides to end another men life. What I found it peculiar is when she sheds tears doing it, showing the viewer that she is sorry. But would the person who is sorry do that? Words and body language not matching actions. Also I found it interesting when that old lady says about democratic voting when Abby got bossy. when she asked everyone if someone is against proposed rule nobody said anything which I found peculiar, sign of fear and authoritarian obedience. Which is maybe the norm that was required of Brits because of their history and culture. I found it illogical when the rule was introduced that prohibited separate meals. Didn't see the point of it. Maybe the point was being preparation for house scanners? And when the real culprit for murder is found Gregy decides he is to much power hungry to let it all go because the "cohesion" of the group and their authority would be jeopardized. Even if we take for granted that they survival would be jeopardized if everyone left it does not hold the water because they did it just fine before that. And then Abby also says that locking Tom up is inhuman after they killed another person. Talking about moral priorities. True value of men is measured when he has power.
In reality the things would be worse. One example is maybe situation in Libya and Syria. Raping, stealing, etc... many people are animals and the only thing that is holding them back is the system retribution for their crimes, if there is no that, then they are free to go because the only rule they value is: Might is right. Interesting times when you realize your "nice" neighbor is your greatest enemy. In those situations the good thing is to have something for self-defense because the jungle is full of beasts. With working on oneself, meditating, EE, helping others in some possible way and gathering food, that is my priority.

 

[Carl]

I was very sad to see that people are unable, sometimes, to help for many reasons: fear, timidity, etc. Even if it hurts I think you have to do something, and sometimes just talking to the person that is wounded is enough while waiting the ambulance. So in a case of surviving, where no ambulance is coming try to save a person is vital. That's why to know a little about how to help is extremely important.

I think this describes the problem quite well, i.e. fear and timidity. When reading about the bystander effect I was horrified at the weakness of people in such situations. We are so totally conditioned to stand in paralysis while we wait for some authority to tell us what to do. I can't imagine they're all stood thinking "not my problem", but more like "I don't know what to do! I better just not do anything..". I think it stems from the lack of character building in society these days, nobody can look at a situation like that objectively and decide it's their responsibility to break their conditioned social shell and reach out to another in need.

In the outbreak of a major catastrophe/breakdown, these people are the ones who are going to be looking for any authority figure to lead them, and the psychopaths and disturbed individuals will be ready and willing to step into that role.

However, many of us will probably be facing these situations alone, probably completely cut off from the network here.

By alone, I mean, those that have been acquiring the knowledge that will be crucial, yet must somehow try to convey it to others (that likely have no clue) in "the heat of the moment." Many, many of us will be put to the test as far as our level of discernment and external consideration is concerned, yet getting across what needs to be understood by others. And all this without being able to network about it if we feel unsure of certain things. It's really been going around and around in my mind.

My thought exactly. Watching this series, it finally dawned on me that we probably won't, contrarily to what I was wishfully thinking, be all together as a community in the future, but rather, since we are literally from everywhere in the world, we will have to build new communities, each one of us, far from each other, with strangers.

I won't lie, it made me depressed. I realized that being so far apart from each other was maybe in some way 'intended'? Like little beacons of Truth (well, trying as best as we can to be at least) to be able spread these little nuggets of knowledge we were able to acquire here in this new world. Who knows if electricity, technology will be available? And I don't know about you guys, but to me, being cut off from you'all, not knowing if members here are doing OK, etc. is a very, very difficult thought indeed.

Well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, I guess. Just one of the many possibilities...

I don't think it will be a matter of preaching the truths of the universe to try and recruit people, although later on if we form groups, we can certainly try to share our knowledge bit by bit 'round the campfire' so to speak. It will be more a matter of leading by example. Being a calm, genuine person who looks out for others, can detect pathological types, and faces reality objectively. If we can sincerely develop these characteristics before the 'time comes', maybe we will naturally attract and form networks with those like us (paying close attention to signs of pathology, of course). And let's not forget that the coming events will definitely play their own part in what we will become, shaping our personalities according to our experiences and actions.

I think that, short of a paraphysical way of communicating (which we can't rule out), we will be left on our own as you said. So we better get as much out of our network as possible, and apply it in the here and now!

 

[agni]

I was very sad to see that people are unable, sometimes, to help for many reasons: fear, timidity, etc. Even if it hurts I think you have to do something, and sometimes just talking to the person that is wounded is enough while waiting the ambulance. So in a case of surviving, where no ambulance is coming try to save a person is vital. That's why to know a little about how to help is extremely important.

I think this describes the problem quite well, i.e. fear and timidity. When reading about the bystander effect I was horrified at the weakness of people in such situations. We are so totally conditioned to stand in paralysis while we wait for some authority to tell us what to do. I can't imagine they're all stood thinking "not my problem", but more like "I don't know what to do! I better just not do anything..". I think it stems from the lack of character building in society these days, nobody can look at a situation like that objectively and decide it's their responsibility to break their conditioned social shell and reach out to another in need.

In the outbreak of a major catastrophe/breakdown, these people are the ones who are going to be looking for any authority figure to lead them, and the psychopaths and disturbed individuals will be ready and willing to step into that role.

Yeap. People do seem rather scared when they do not know what to do, it does seem to paralyse them. I have first hand encounter with this, and short experiment on this.

First time, (not trying to invoke pity or anything, just for the reference sake). I had been bleeding pretty bad when I was a 14 or so when I ripped my arm open in an accident, I walked through the city for 1 or 2 miles to home, all I got was that blank look from strangers, does seem like some sort of paralysis. No adult men or women stopped to ask me if I was okay or need any help. It's just kind of mind boggling, it was a bleeding kid for god sake, yet nothing from

Second time, I was smoking with a friends outside the building where we saw a man from the building who seemed to be suffering from dimentia (or something like this) wondering in the middle of the road. He seemed like have no idea what is going on and could barely stand. I intentionally hesitated for a few seconds to see if any of the people I was smoking with would react to this... nope, did not happen until I've started walking towards the man. Only after someone did a first move action to help happened.

Pretty bizzare, what the hell ?