The Amazing Liver and Gallbladder Flush

[ScarletBegonias]

I've been waking up with painful abdominal cramps the past few days. I think that happens when I don't take vitamin C. I gauge my current fat intake to be 45%. Should I flush my liver? Or can I just start taking magnesium.

If you have not started taking magnesium, you may want to consider it. Magnesium citrate is a good type and there is also a thread discussing magnesium that you may want to read if you haven't already, (http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,2354.0.html). Usually I will get cramps if I've eaten more than usual or a different type of food that doesn't "agree" with me. Perhaps one of these is the cause..?

I just want to report my experience with the liver/gall bladder cleanse that I tried. My original post about trying it is here.

Going on all veggies made me very nauseous. At this point, I can't even look a veggie in the face. I've been having some spirulina on my meat to give me a small amount of carbs.

The results were less than dramatic. As far as I could see, very few stones came out. What did come out, and not to be too graphic, is a lot of light-colored orange frothy stuff. As I had eaten my last sweet potato, I figure that that could have been it. There was also a small amount of what could have been small amount of cholesterol lumps.

On top of this, my intestinal tract has gone back to square one as I have had constant diarrhea. I did the cleanse one week ago.

Plus, I am still passing small amounts of the greasy stuff. So I see no improvement at all, and a worsening of my condition.

I appreciate you posting your experiences, Nienna Eluch, because I have been curious about this cleanse. It's helpful for me to see others' outcomes, because I have been hesitant to do it. I just don't want to be sick for a week just to be sick for another week three months later when I would repeat the flush. Maybe one day I will try it and if I do, I will report back.

 

[dugdeep]

I'm just catching up with this thread and want to give a warning to people - be VERY careful with this cleanse. Many people in the natural health industry are extremely leery of this protocol and some consider it quite dangerous. Andreas Moritz is also considered a bit of a charlatan in some circles.

First off, there's very good reason to believe the "stones" that are a result of this cleanse are not gallstones. It is much more likely they are an emulsification of the epsom salts and fat. I've read reports of people doing this cleanse over and over again and never having any fewer stones show up. This is likely because they aren't in fact gallstones, but are a product of the cleanse components themselves. This is similar to many of the colon cleansing products that give images of these large ropey discharges and say "look what came out of my colon!". If those discharges were analyzed you would likely find they are composed of the clay and fiber that were injested for the cleanse. I know a colon surgeon personally, (he's a good friend of mine) and he's been in some of the nastiest colons on the planet. He said he has never in his life encountered anything remotely like that inside a colon.

Back to the gallbladder flush, none of this is to say that nothing is happening on the cleanse. I know someone personally who was having a lot of liver issues and managed to get on top of them by doing this cleanse. But this may be simply attributed to chugging a lot of olive oil, which will cause gallbladder spasms and may get things moving again if they were stagnant.

The reason some health practitioners feel this cleanse is dangerous is that if someone has any sizable stones in their gallbladder, they run the risk of getting them lodged in the bile duct. By forcing a lot of bile out all at once, stones that are relatively stable otherwise may be pushed out. If they don't quite fit through the bile duct, they could become stuck. At that point you're looking at surgery, and they will probably remove your gallbladder.

I'm sorry I don't have any links to back up what I'm saying here. This is just what I've picked up over the years speaking with people in my industry (naturopaths, holistic nutritionists) and I wanted to get it out there to give people pause before undertaking it. I'm of the opinion that this is another one of these health protocols, like the Master Cleanse and Ionic Foot Baths, that circulate around holistic health circles but are actually just bunk. I could be wrong of course.

FWIW

[Edit: After some research I see the word is "saponification" not "emulsification"]

 

[SeekinTruth]

I'm not familiar with Andrea Moritz or his "Liver and Gallbladder Flush." But from personal experience and that of about a dozen or more other people using Clark's liver cleanse protocol, I've never known a case where each consequent cleanse didn't get out less and less stones. Since I counted the stones first few times I did it personally, the counts were roughly 250 to 300 for the first cleanse; 100 to 125 for the second; and around 30 to 60 all other times since.

In the case of Clark's cleanse, she claimed that after getting out from about 2000 to 3000 total stones, nothing else will come out, at which point she recommended to do a liver cleanse every 6 months to prevent more stones accumulating. Also these form and accumulate in the liver bile ducts, not in the gallbladder.

It's up to each individual to either try to experiment with Clark's cleanse or not. Again, I don't know anything about Moritz or his protocol. But the claim that the "stones" are likely an emulsification of the Epsom salts and fat in the case of Clark's cleanse doesn't seem to hold any water because there are cases where nothing comes out or very few (like 15 or 20) so why doesn't the same "emulsification" process occur every time when doing exactly the same protocol? Also how does the product of the "emulsification" process turn bright green (the color of bile not mixed with intestinal content) and then in cases where no more stones come out, there's no green residue?

I think that eating high carb, low fat diets have a large role in these stones forming. And shouldn't really even need to do this cleanse twice a year after getting the 2000 to 3000 (or whatever the count for each person) stones if you're on a high fat, low carb diet. OSIT. Again it's good to be skeptical and even more important to be careful and make sure you understand what you're doing and why with all experimentation. FWIW.

 

[dugdeep]

I've had a chance to do a little digging on this and here are a few links I found that discuss what is likely going on and why these can't be gallstones.

_http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=303645
_http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=184340
_http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1679907

I think this one is the most damning:
[quote author=http://www.naturalhealthlibrarian.com/ebook.asp?page=Gallbladder%20Flush]
DON'T FALL FOR THE OLIVE OIL GALL BLADDER FLUSH
The Lancet Volume 365, Number 9468 16 April 2005

Could these be Gallstones?

A 40-year-old woman was referred to the outpatient clinic with a 3-month history of recurrent severe right hypochondrial pain after fatty food. Abdominal ultrasound showed multiple 1-2 mm gallstones in the gallbladder.

She had recently followed a "liver cleansing" regime on the advice of a herbalist. This regime consisted of free intake of apple and vegetable juice until 1800 h, but no food, followed by the consumption of 600 mL of olive oil and 300 mL of lemon juice over several hours. This activity resulted in the painless passage of multiple semisolid green "stones" per rectum in the early hours of the next morning. She collected them, stored them in the freezer, and presented them in the clinic (figure). [see link for picture. I've never been able to insert pictures properly in the forum ]

Microscopic examination of our patient's stones revealed that they lacked any crystalline structure, melted to an oily green liquid after 10 min at 40oC, and contained no cholesterol, bilirubin, or calcium by established wet chemical methods.1 Traditional faecal fat extraction techniques2 indicated that the stones contained fatty acids that required acid hydrolysis to give free fatty acids before extraction into ether. These fatty acids accounted for 75% of the original material.

Experimentation revealed that mixing equal volumes of oleic acid (the major component of olive oil) and lemon juice produced several semi solid white balls after the addition of a small volume of a potassium hydroxide solution. On air drying at room temperature, these balls became quite solid and hard.

We conclude, therefore, that these green "stones" resulted from the action of gastric lipases on the simple and mixed triacylglycerols that make up olive oil, yielding long chain carboxylic acids (mainly oleic acid). This process was followed by saponification into large insoluble micelles of potassium carboxylates (lemon juice contains a high concentration of potassium) or "soap stones". The cholesterol stones noted on ultrasound were removed by surgery (figure).

A search of the internet reveals many health websites promoting so-called "gall-bladder flushing" or "liver cleansing" regimes. Some quote a Correspondence letter published in The Lancet3 on the subject. The 1-day purge usually consists of an overnight fast, then eating apples in the morning, taking only herbal tea through the day, and then in the evening a warm mixture of olive oil (2/3 cup) and fresh lemon juice (1/3 cup). Patients are instructed to then lie on the right side (although some say the left). It is claimed that the next morning the gallstones will pass in the stool.

We have shown that these flushing regimes for expelling gallstones are a myth, and that the claims made by some are misleading. The appearance of a letter in an establishment journal has been used to legitimise this practice for some time and the record should now be set straight.

We declare that we have no conflict of interest.
*Christiaan W Sies, Jim Brooker

Clinical Biochemistry Unit, Canterbury Health Laboratories, PO Box 151, Christchurch, New Zealand (CWS); and Gastroenterology Department, Waikato Hospital, Hamilton, New Zealand (JB)

1 Steen G, Blijenberg BG. Chemical analysis of gallstones. Eur J Clin Chem Clin Biochem 1991; 29: 801-04. [PubMed]

2 Varley H. Practical clinical biochemistry, 4th edn. London: Whitfriars Press, 1967.

3 Dekkers R. Apple juice and the chemical-contact softening of gallstones. Lancet 1999; 354: 2171.
[/quote]

Again, I'm not saying that this flush can't have any kind of benefit as there are reports of people feeling better afterwards. But if people are judging the merit of the clease by how many "stones" they got out, it really brings the whole thing into question.

 

[Aliana]

I just wanted to report my experience for those who may be thinking that this is a wonderful experience for all. It is not. I've been very weak and tired for almost the whole week because of this experience. And I am not in anyway looking to do this again, at this time.

Just to be clear, I am not blaming anyone or saying this cleanse is a bad thing, everyone is different and this could be very good for a lot of people. It just may not be a good thing for all people.

I read about this cleanse a year or so ago, but also read on one of the forums that there could be problems (the post may have been on curezone, but unfortunately I cannot find that post now). Apparently some people had experiences where a stone became lodged in a gall bladder duct and they had to be rushed to ER for gall bladder surgery. That frightened the heck out of me, so never had the courage to try this.

So, I don't know if this is complete baloney, but I decided to err on the side of caution. I am wondering if we can get the same detoxing by doing the coffee enemas and taking milk thistle or if that will only get rid of toxins while leaving the stones. I do take milk thistle regularly, need to do more of the coffee procedures, but none of it is fun - so i keep putting it off. However, spring seems to be a good time to detox and have been thinking about these protocols again. Just still a bit nervous - cannot think of anything I would like less than a midnight run to the hospital!

 

[jinga]

If anyone is looking for soursop leaves in Australia, please visits our website [link removed by moderator] for more information.

 

[truth seeker]

Hi jinga,

If you're interested in participating here, it would be great if you could post an intro in the newbie section of the forum. It doesn't have to be long, just a little about yourself and how you found the site.

 

[SMM]

Glad to have stumbled upon this, some handy information.

 

[whitecoast]

Recently my dad has come down with a number of problems with gallstones. He experiences gallbladder attacks after he eats semi-frequently. Some of the specialists he visited told him that the gallstones he has in his gallbladder move around and sometimes obstruct the pathway. They said that he should have his gallbladder removed. This is a worrying predicament for my mother and I because my grandmother died from the same type of surgery for the same type of condition. Having no gallbladder itself presents itself with a host of other health problems as well. He is open to trying a natural, non-invasive method of removing the gallstones, so that's what I've been looking into.

His diet is sort of healthier than most -- he hardly ever has vegetable oils, is about 80% gluten free (yes, it's not free enough but it's a start) and gets plenty of meat. His worst offense are cookies morning coffee and evening wine, which naturally will have to go when shifting to a candida detox diet to ease the flush of gallstones.

Here's the supplement list I've compiled from Gaby's Sluggish Liver Protocol and some of SeekinTruth's recommendations:
-apple cider vinegar
-milk thistle: 12 600mg/day
-must have active silymarin in it: 100mg x 3/day
-vitamin E: 1-1.2k IU/day
-vitamin D: 2-4k IU/day
-vitamin C: enough to get loose stools by adding 1 more gram
-alpha lipoic acid: 2-400mg/day
-phosphatidylcholine:(don't know the correct dosage on this one)
-magnesium citrate: a tablespoon before meals and during gallstone attacks

Also potential:
Swanson's "Liver Essentials Cleanse and Detoxify" and Swanson's "Herbal Liver Purifier"

I've encountered several flushing protocols online and in the thread, but I wanted to just given him maybe 2 weeks to settle into the diet and supplement schedule so his liver is more robust. After that, I'll assemble what's needed for the gallbladder and colon flushes.

Thoughts?

 

[SeekinTruth]

I would just caution that if he already has gallstone problems, eating fat can often trigger the spasms and pain as bile is excreted. After doing the flush, when he has some relief, there is the opportunity to use the sluggish liver protocols for support and use the diet as the main way to achieve a less "viscous" bile composition by eating lots of high quality fats. But again, the transition will be tricky because if he has stones in the bile ducts, just eating fat can trigger very painful spasms (the stones form in the liver bile ducts and then fall into the gallbladder).

 

[maryjk_99]

Hello whitecoast. My 78 year old (at the time) dad also had this recommendation for gallstones back in 2004. I just kept questioning them as to why surgery would be needed for a simple thing such as gallstones. It seemed to me a major surgery and suffering through recovery would not be best for an elderly man. Well, they put us both through all sorts of interviews but I remained unconvinced. Finally they offered an alternative which was effectively vacuuming the stones through a tube which reached down the throat. They also inserted a small screen which kept any small stones they missed from blocking the tubes. This remained in place for several weeks after which they used the same process to remove. They kept warning me this was no guarantee the stones would not return, but I just thought it may take another 80 years to form so I remained unconcerned about it. They showed us a small vial of stones which were removed asking if we'd like to take them home. Said no thanks

After the process my dad complained of a raw throat, which was expected, but this only lasted several days. Afterward he was fine.

Perhaps this treatment would be possible for your dad?

 

[whitecoast]

I would just caution that if he already has gallstone problems, eating fat can often trigger the spasms and pain as bile is excreted. After doing the flush, when he has some relief, there is the opportunity to use the sluggish liver protocols for support and use the diet as the main way to achieve a less "viscous" bile composition by eating lots of high quality fats. But again, the transition will be tricky because if he has stones in the bile ducts, just eating fat can trigger very painful spasms (the stones form in the liver bile ducts and then fall into the gallbladder).

Thanks SeekinTruth. Good call on doing the gallstone flush before the liver protocol. My next problem is that my dad is hypoglycaemic, so I'm a little cautious about having him fast after 2pm for ~20 hours. I think if he starts to get headaches or the shakes I could just give him a teaspoon of honey or something similar and just get him to hold it in his mouth if eating ANYTHING does actually harm the flush procedure... but if not he can just have some regular juice.

Hello whitecoast. My 78 year old (at the time) dad also had this recommendation for gallstones back in 2004. I just kept questioning them as to why surgery would be needed for a simple thing such as gallstones. It seemed to me a major surgery and suffering through recovery would not be best for an elderly man. Well, they put us both through all sorts of interviews but I remained unconvinced. Finally they offered an alternative which was effectively vacuuming the stones through a tube which reached down the throat. They also inserted a small screen which kept any small stones they missed from blocking the tubes. This remained in place for several weeks after which they used the same process to remove. They kept warning me this was no guarantee the stones would not return, but I just thought it may take another 80 years to form so I remained unconcerned about it. They showed us a small vial of stones which were removed asking if we'd like to take them home. Said no thanks

After the process my dad complained of a raw throat, which was expected, but this only lasted several days. Afterward he was fine.

Perhaps this treatment would be possible for your dad?

I wasn't really involved in any of the medical consultations or anything, so I couldn't ask unfortunately. :/

 

[will01]

I have just recently completed my second liver flush, using the Andreas Moritz method and thought I would post about my experience.

My transition to the Keto diet, starting in May 2013, had been straight forward and problem free. The only issue was an intense pain in the stomach region, the first episode around 6 weeks into the diet. After having a few more of these attacks, all around 4 - 6 weeks apart, I remembered reading in the Ketogenic Diet thread that more than a few forum members described a similar pain. Upon remembering this, I assumed that the pain was an adaptive response by the body to the diet change and that it would resolve in time.

This proved not to be the case and after another couple of attacks I began eliminating foods from my diet (all previously tested, some twice) thinking this may be the problem. With this, I thought I had the problem solved after eliminating eggs, which appear to be a problem food for many people. Wrong! The last attack was not only the usual pain, but gave me a fever/sweating/chills that put me down for half a day.

With this I decided it was time to see a doctor, but instead happened upon this thread. After reading the thread and purchasing "The Amazing Liver and Gallbladder Flush" ebook by Andreas Moritz, I decided to give the flush a try first. The first flush went well but did not produce any stones. I followed the instructions, but did not do the enema before and after the flush as I did not have the enema kit. I also didn't take any malic acid for the recommended 6 days before the flush, as I didn't have it either, but I was taking ACV in my bone broth each day. Moritz does say that it may take a few flushes before you see stones, so I was not concerned by this. The increase in energy after this flush was quite noticeable, but this could have been due to the fast required for the flush (I was still a bit skeptical about all this), as previous fasting had given a similar, though not as pronounced result.

For the second flush, I followed the instructions to the letter and this resulted in a successful flush producing many hundreds of stones, I would estimate in the range of 800 - 1000 in number. As LadyRodgers and cherylclift said, it makes you feel so much better, it is like a miracle! It wasn't as easy as the first flush though and I had to wait until the second day after the flush to pass the stones. This once again gave me fever type symptoms, a bad headache and put me in bed for another half day. Obviously a very strong detox reaction. I understand this result is not typical of the flush and may have been the result of a blockage somewhere.

After these results, I will continue flushing at the specified intervals. There have been no more attacks since the first flush and I have eaten some very high fat meals/days since starting to flush.

Also I would recommend to anyone with persistent pain to see a doctor. I have a bad habit of putting up with these things and was lucky enough to solve this one without a doctors visit.

Thanks to all posters for their valuable information in this thread, it was much appreciated. :)

 

[whitecoast]

So I managed to get my dad to have a second consultation, and it turned out that there was already damage and inflammation to the gallbladder and its duct, so even with a flush there was a lot of risk in not having it removed. I gave my dad the information on what foods to have, and what supplements to take, but he thought some of the stuff was too weird so he "decided" against doing it. You can lead a horse to water... Anyway, he had the day surgery about a month ago and got all his bandages off a few weeks ago. He's still alive, which everyone (especially my mom) is pleased about.

 

[will01]

Several weeks ago, I completed a third liver flush, having had good success previously. This one produced a mixed result.

The day before the flush, I ate some food that I hadn't had in a while (onions and potato chips at a relatives birthday) and ended up with mild intestinal pain the next morning. Unwisely, I decided to go ahead with the flush.

Once again, the epsom salts failed to produce a bowel movement and the pain increased to severe spasms across the lower abdomen. This time, I had to perform around 7-8 smaller enemas to clear the stones. This flush produced at least 3 maybe 4 times as many stones as the second flush, an unbelievable amount.

The pain stayed with me for a couple of days and was much worse than gallstone/liver pain. It did lessen over a couple of days, but I went to a doctor for tests. A blood test revealed a white cell count on the higher end of the range, but I was told it was not an infection. A CT scan was next and revealed "thickening of the bowel loops, appearance favours terminal ileitis and crohns disease or other inflammatory bowel disorder". At this the doctor had me admitted to the local hospital and put on IV antibiotics for 3 days. I left the hospital pain free, however as the pain had been decreasing before the antibiotics were administered, it would be impossible to say if they were necessary or not. Obviously, after following a mostly clean diet for 2 years previous, as well as detoxing my body, I was not pleased to have antibiotics and radiation pumped through me. As I had no idea what was happening to me, I went along with this and decided I could detox later.

A colonoscopy was performed a few weeks later and the results were normal. After speaking to the gastroenterologist and telling him of my diet and liver flushes, he said it most likely was an infection.

My diet since this problem occurred, has been very strict and there have been no problems since. Understandably, I am now going to avoid liver flushing until my body has healed as much as possible. I don't wish to discourage anyone from doing the flush and I believe it has benefitted me greatly(no more gallstone/liver pain and great energy). Many people have had success and no problems at all. The main thing is to listen to what your body is telling you and seek help if needed. This was a valuable lesson for me and I was glad I had this problem now rather than later.