The astral plane vs 5D

David Topi said:
About astral travel, thanks for the advice but it is something I regard as normal, does not generate any fear and it is an "ability" that anyone do have or can get if you just work on it. My main difficulty is controlling the conscious exit of the body, as this is a part I am particularly interested in, so to have a fully controlled projection.
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I do not see any of those as reasons to do something. I had no fear of drinking alcohol when I was abusing it. I may have had a fear of living life and interacting with others, but I had no fear of alcohol itself. I also have a lot of potential abilities. Which of those should I explore and why? Just having the potential does not mean I should develop it.

David Topi said:
In any case, thanks for the concerns, I believe it is a great tool for exploration in parallel with a fully personal and spiritual development within the 3D parameters, so it can be combined. I do not believe there is any other "way" to explore the unknown but go a see it for yourself (I maybe wrong, and nobody says it is easy, but ok, it is part of my own growth I guess).

cheers
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Why do you believe it is such a great tool? Simple curiousity or maybe you read it in a book or maybe you met someone who was influential in your life for whom it was a great tool? Where does this belief that this is a useful tool come from?

Everyone I have met who considered out-of-body experiences or lucid dreaming as a primary goal in their lives was either crazy as a loon or at least had serious problems keeping up the quality of their everyday life. I have met people who as a consequence of their journey of personal development had some experiences with OOBEs who I have a great deal of respect and admiration for.

I was quite into the idea of lucid dreaming and had got to the point where I had them often. I could fly around in my dreams, isolate objects and use them to enter into new dreams, and have really odd conversations with the people I met in those dreams. It was better than television, but none of it helped me one bit in being useful to other human beings or being comfortable in my own skin for that matter. I was still crazy as a loon. It took some pretty big shocks to let go of that fixation on lucid dreaming and a lot of the other baggage that went with it. For one thing, I felt really special about being able to enter a lucid dreaming state more and more often. It was a great way to forget about everything I really needed to be doing to grow.

It sounds like you have made up your mind, but I would feel negligent towards others reading these threads if I did not put these warnings out there. Again, if nothing else, read "Amazing Grace" before you conduct your experiments. If you think you are ready for the things that live in those realms (if they are indeed anything other than our own internal ghosts), then you are probably their lunch.
 
Hi David Topi,

Is the website at _www.davidtopi.com your site? If it is, I can see that you have already formed, and invested in, quite a few beliefs (akashic record, spirit guides, conscious manifestation of reality, etc.). It is my experience that it is difficult to have an open mind to new concepts if they contradict or otherwise threaten beliefs in which one has already invested. Sacred cows are the enemy of the open mind, OSIT, and can interfere with properly assessing the wisdom of certain actions or approaches.

In fact, on this forum, we use a network of various perspectives to provide insight greater than the insight of any single member, as it provides a method of shining light on self deception, faulty logic, emotional attachment to ideas, self importance, etc. So far, it seems to me those who have responded on this thread have not only provided some interesting feedback to your question but have also provided compelling thoughts on your interest in astral travel, ranging from trying to warn you off from putting yourself unnecessarily in danger to wasting your time with a distraction from helping others and developing yourself in this present dimension and density.

There are a few questions you might want to consider asking yourself, which could result in opening new lines of inquiry and growth. For example, how do you know the entity you encountered was your father and not some other entity that has access to all of your thoughts? How critical are you of the information that you have encountered over the years and have added to your sum of knowledge, and what methods of discernment do you apply? Is it possible you have allowed some information into your mind without sufficient critical analysis and, if so, has it become the foundation upon which other information has been received? What are your motivations to focus your energy and attention into wanting to wander what you call the astral plane instead of applying that energy to other pursuits? What role might self importance play in your motivation? What protection do you have to safeguard against attachments and possession? How can you honestly know that it will be sufficient?

The answers to questions like these will only come from the surface layer. For example, we rarely know the deeper reasons to our motivations and when we question ourselves, we give ourselves reasons that satisfy our immediate curiosity. We might tell ourselves our motivation is to learn. But under that layer is another layer to be probed, which might reveal the desire to learn is part of a deeper pattern of wanting to have extensive knowledge so we can always be the person with the right answer and therefore important or valuable. And as we strip away the layers, we might get a little closer to the reason behind the need to feel valued, like perhaps a childhood rejection from a parent.

Of course, these examples are my own projections and I only offer them as illustration. But I think you might derive great value in trying to get to the deeper layers behind why you are, depending on how you view it, putting yourself in a dangerous position or feel so self assured in your abilities to assess the situation and protect yourself from powerful, sinister forces. To me it seems that you value your own thoughts on these matters too much and I am concerned such self importance will prove hazardous.

Gonzo
 
To me it seems that you value your own thoughts on these matters too much and I am concerned such self importance will prove hazardous.
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I saw it too, so I said this:

If you get into affairs of dragons, you will be lunch. I think as I mentioned, first learn the lessons of life. Have you read the material Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Mouravieff or five major in psychology? if not, can be a good framework to begin to question you many many things to think about yourself and life was an illusion. What I mean by this is that if you put in doubt and you approach the reality of your experience and reliability of your sacred cows can stop drawing things on paper. It is necessary to empty the cup before making a move.
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Too much confidence in what he believes. The fact that he has written books means that possibly the topics covered in them and in their therapy sessions (akhasic records and other) are their sacred cows. Honestly, with all due respect, I see New Age, no more than that.

osit
 
Hi guys!
see my answer here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,25470.msg308778.html#msg308778

it is the same as I was saying to anart, it is part of a paradigm until proved wrong, therefore, it is just lessons and growth and this is why I am here :-)
 
If you are a compulsive reader, here is a list of important books:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4718.msg31032#msg31032

Happy reading!
 
Álvaro said:
If you are a compulsive reader, here is a list of important books:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4718.msg31032#msg31032

Happy reading!
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thanks! plenty of them on my kindle already, about 500 in the list to go! :-)
 
david, you did pique my interest with your conversations to your dead father.
My father died few years ago, and since then, we have been able to "communicate" with him. Me, my sister and my mother, have had "conversations" and have perceive him. There is plenty of people who communicate with their dead relatives so it is not anything extremely extraordinaire. We do not see dead people around, it is just our father. So, I asked plenty of questions, how is your life and environment there? how do you get your "energy"? how do you perceive "time"? etc. The answer were a pretty much description of what here we believe 4D is going to be: instant location, feeding on energy, no time but perception of events in sequential order, etc. So for a long time, for me, the astral plane has been equivalent to 4D.
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how do you 'communicate' with this entity that you claim is your father? is this via channelling or does he sorta appear at certain times of the day to you and your family? also perhaps the more important question is, how do you know he is really your father?
from what I've seen so far, entities seem to easily able manipulate people to think they are a certain person. laura's comments are very apt on this matter, in my opinion.
 
moksha said:
david, you did pique my interest with your conversations to your dead father.
how do you 'communicate' with this entity that you claim is your father? is this via channelling or does he sorta appear at certain times of the day to you and your family? also perhaps the more important question is, how do you know he is really your father?
from what I've seen so far, entities seem to easily able manipulate people to think they are a certain person. laura's comments are very apt on this matter, in my opinion.
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We have seen him "appearing" while we were partly asleep, specially my mother. Also, we "smell" him at home sometimes (the personal odour that we all have, so suddenly you notice it is there), and he has been moving few objects at my sister's place as well that were personal stuff connected to him, so we knew if was there.

After that, we started talking with him mentally, you know, sort of talking to your self out loud, but several thoughts do came that was indeed the same kind of answer that my father would give us. Same for my mother and my sister, meaning, it was not just myself.
Because I also use from time to time a ouija board and I learned also to dowse, we started getting more and more confident that it was him via different methods.

I have been looking always for neg entities just in case, cleaning energetically our homes, removing attachments from ourselves anytime I noticed something, etc, meaning, trying to make sure we were not getting deceived. Bit by bit this mental conversation turned into something more "solid", I was getting answers to questions. Then I was mailing my sister and my mother, my questions, so they asked the same and they got pretty similar answers. At this point it was very interesting, I was asking for everything I could think of, and sometimes the answer was "son, I can not tell you that, I do not know!". More or less I formed my beliefs of the astral planes based on what my father was explaining. Or If I was reading something in a book, I asked about it, sometimes it seemed to match, sometimes it did not.

Of course, some stuff could be purely my own imagination, my subconscious, my higherself, or you name it, but it is ok, it contributes to our way of learning, to keep asking questions, to improve what we believed to be true, etc.
In any case, I know of a few people working with an enhanced sensibility to be able to connect very easily with their deceased friends of family, and their modes of doing so are not much different of what I experienced, so that gave me confidence that at least i was not imagining the whole thing.

Not so long ago there was a kind of "bye-bye", our father said to us that he was moving "a level higher" and the feeling he is around is less and less frequent. What this "higher level" is, is still work in progress. All my original question about the Astral plane vs 5D in this thread comes just for the sake of trying to understand where "could he be", so to speak.
 
Several possibilities come to mind: your father is earthbound - hasn't gone into the light/5D. This is fairly common and normal in the time immediately after death. It's okay to chat with the individual, but you really need to do differential diagnosis, including regarding status and disengage. This situation can persist into spirit attachment. In the case of some entities, this persists only for about 40 days, at which time the temporary "astral body" dies and releases the soul energy to 5D.

It can also be a magnetic soul imprint - like a tape recording only of a soul essence that has a limited ability to interact, but tends to manifest the same way over and over.

The PK effects suggest some element of attachment to someone where the energies of the living person are what is used to "move things."

The fact that you are having the conversations in your head also strongly suggest spirit attachment. It's not uncommon either. I had one case where the son didn't want to say goodbye to his father and the father wanted to stay also and they agreed that when the son died, they would go to 5D together. The guy was in his seventies, so he didn't have long to wait. His father had been attached to him for about 40 some years or more and he was hunchbacked due to the energy congestion.
 
How, exactly, do you "remove attachments"?

See, what you are describing is actually quite normal and ordinary - I've seen it 100 times if I've seen it once, and it always plays out the same way.
 
Laura said:
Several possibilities come to mind: your father is earthbound - hasn't gone into the light/5D. This is fairly common and normal in the time immediately after death. It's okay to chat with the individual, but you really need to do differential diagnosis, including regarding status and disengage. This situation can persist into spirit attachment. In the case of some entities, this persists only for about 40 days, at which time the temporary "astral body" dies and releases the soul energy to 5D.

It can also be a magnetic soul imprint - like a tape recording only of a soul essence that has a limited ability to interact, but tends to manifest the same way over and over.

The PK effects suggest some element of attachment to someone where the energies of the living person are what is used to "move things."

The fact that you are having the conversations in your head also strongly suggest spirit attachment. It's not uncommon either. I had one case where the son didn't want to say goodbye to his father and the father wanted to stay also and they agreed that when the son died, they would go to 5D together. The guy was in his seventies, so he didn't have long to wait. His father had been attached to him for about 40 some years or more and he was hunchbacked due to the energy congestion.
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thank you Laura, he died 3 years ago, and it was only 5 months ago when he got his "goodbye", all that time we had indeed those conversations.

It could be all that, guess it does not ever mind, the end results were good, meaning, it opened the way to a bigger understanding of reality. When I have a negative spirit attached (a lower astral entity or a 4D STS) the feeling is very different. They come sometimes just to get our energy, but sometimes to amplify any negative feelings and emotions in order to generate more fear-based energies that can be drained up to their "superiors". I did not feel that at all during those conversations with my father. However, who knows! It helped changing an old paradigm into a new one, so guess this was the important thing about all this experience (otherwise I would not be here, for instance! )
 
Laura said:
Several possibilities come to mind: your father is earthbound - hasn't gone into the light/5D. This is fairly common and normal in the time immediately after death. It's okay to chat with the individual, but you really need to do differential diagnosis, including regarding status and disengage. This situation can persist into spirit attachment. In the case of some entities, this persists only for about 40 days, at which time the temporary "astral body" dies and releases the soul energy to 5D.
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Laura, forgot to ask, so what is your take on the Astral plane vs 5D? I mean, the astral body before it goes to 5D, where do you "locate it", within the 3D limits or in some sort of parallel level of existence?
 
David Topi said:
However, who knows!
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That's the whole point, David - you don't know. Yet, you think you do know and you don't question yourself. This is very dangerous and a sign that your cup is full. In fact, most of your posts indicate that your cup is full. From an esoteric standpoint, this is not a positive condition. You've been given a lot of input over the past few days on this forum - if you are sincere, you'll take it in and it will change your impression of yourself. If you are not sincere, you'll push back against it assuring yourself that you are correct and everyone else is wrong; that you're just 'misunderstood'.
 
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