The forgiveness lesson

[Trobar]

If I may the marriage to a sociopath was inevitable when taking into consideration your childhood experiences and parents. You were attracted to the sociopath becuase thats what your being was familiar with at that time.

I believe a big part of forgiving others is forgiving yourself. As a child to be tramatized it is something that is out of your control and the ingrained trauma stays with you because of the unfortunate makeup of our human body. For example I was tramatized at around 11 years old and I surpressed this trauma in my body and didn;t remember this traumatic event until I was 28. This trauma impacted my life subconciously for 17 years. There was no other way for your paretns to act that was in their program. Unfortunitaly you were born into it without any say or choice but now you have a choice. First choice is to forgive yourself and UNDERSTAND THEM. Gain knowledge from this and heal your emotions. I don't think its about forgiving others its about learning and moving forward in the best way for you.

You will always have these memories but its how these memories interact with your being that matters. EE breathing that is here on the forum can help heal your emotions and then only after you see clear you can learn and see those tramatic people for who they are and create a life for yourself where those type of people are not in it....You don't have to forgive them its not black and white its not I either forgive or I don't forgive.

To use them as knowledge as moving toward a life that you wan't I would put on priority list ahead of forgiving and maybe oneday after you have climbed that huge moutain you can look back down at them and you will have a different intellectual/emotional oppinion of them. You may even feel sorry for them...who knows. Doing intese work for a long time changes your persepctive as you are no longer the same when you come out on the other end.

I say get busy working toward your goals in and effort to understand yourself and heal yourself and create your reality than after that is done ask yourself do I forgive them.

Hello Menna,
You wrote: "If I may the marriage to a sociopath was inevitable when taking into consideration your childhood experiences and parents. You were attracted to the sociopath because thats what your being was familiar with at that time.
That is almost exactly what the psychologist said to me.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I do appreciate it.

 

[Persephone]

Hi Trobar,
thank you very much for sharing. I have not been through this kind of experience, so I can't speak from direct experience, but I live with someone who has been and, curiously enough, the people that we have come close to us in the last few months (I'll write a post about this later) have all experienced this kind of trauma. One in particular, a relatively young man(30 years old) was physically, sexually and psychologically abused by several members of his family as a child and told me that 3 things helped him a lot to heal from this (which illustrate some of the relevant advice you have been given here) :
1) Expressing all his anger to the people involved (this was really very helpful for him)
2) the desire to understand how these people had behaved the way they had (they themselves had been in some way abused and there were cases of extreme violence and murders in his family story) so as not to unconsciously and even if only minimally, perpetrate this pattern
3) the desire to make sense of it so that he could help other people who are going through such experiences (he began first by helping dogs who were badly treated and traumatised).
He told me that he has not "forgiven" his abusers, but that he has deeply accepted what happened (this took years) and no longer feels anger towards them.
The phase he is going through now is to accept/forgive himself for not being able to react, defend himself, accept that it is not "wrong" to feel weak or vulnerable. He had built himself a "character" of a strong, tough man who doesn't need anyone and he used to get angry every time someone, or a situation put him, mostly involuntarily, in a situation where he could feel weak. This was a handicap in his relationships with others and in his life in general. He started readingThe Wave (in French) and following Sott and maybe one day he will be able to tell his experience in this forum.
Thank you again as through your sharing and those who have tried to help you in this thread I'm keeping learning about this.
You have already come a long way towards healing/integrating your life lesson and wish you to continue to make great strides !

 

[Trobar]

Hi Trobar,
thank you very much for sharing. I have not been through this kind of experience, so I can't speak from direct experience, but I live with someone who has been and, curiously enough, the people that we have come close to us in the last few months (I'll write a post about this later) have all experienced this kind of trauma. One in particular, a relatively young man(30 years old) was physically, sexually and psychologically abused by several members of his family as a child and told me that 3 things helped him a lot to heal from this (which illustrate some of the relevant advice you have been given here) :
1) Expressing all his anger to the people involved (this was really very helpful for him)
2) the desire to understand how these people had behaved the way they had (they themselves had been in some way abused and there were cases of extreme violence and murders in his family story) so as not to unconsciously and even if only minimally, perpetrate this pattern
3) the desire to make sense of it so that he could help other people who are going through such experiences (he began first by helping dogs who were badly treated and traumatised).
He told me that he has not "forgiven" his abusers, but that he has deeply accepted what happened (this took years) and no longer feels anger towards them.
The phase he is going through now is to accept/forgive himself for not being able to react, defend himself, accept that it is not "wrong" to feel weak or vulnerable. He had built himself a "character" of a strong, tough man who doesn't need anyone and he used to get angry every time someone, or a situation put him, mostly involuntarily, in a situation where he could feel weak. This was a handicap in his relationships with others and in his life in general. He started readingThe Wave (in French) and following Sott and maybe one day he will be able to tell his experience in this forum.
Thank you again as through your sharing and those who have tried to help you in this thread I'm keeping learning about this.
You have already come a long way towards healing/integrating your life lesson and wish you to continue to make great strides !

Hello Persephone,
Thank you for sharing your perspective. Almost all the individuals that abused me are dead. I never confronted the pedophile. My parents I did confront and they denied absolutely everything as if it had not happened. There was nothing even remotely close to asking for forgiveness. There was only denial denial denial. They have both died. I did confront my former husband and he also denied everything. My former husband is still alive and due to my youngest son, contact with his father did not end with divorce. When my son reached the age of 18, I completely eliminated all contact with him. I don't think there is such a thing as a 'one-size-fits-all' answer to my individual lessons. However, I have benefitted greatly by sharing mine and I have benefitted and continue to benefit from all the replies to my initial post.

 

[Persephone]

Hello Persephone,
Thank you for sharing your perspective. Almost all the individuals that abused me are dead. I never confronted the pedophile. My parents I did confront and they denied absolutely everything as if it had not happened. There was nothing even remotely close to asking for forgiveness. There was only denial denial denial. They have both died. I did confront my former husband and he also denied everything. My former husband is still alive and due to my youngest son, contact with his father did not end with divorce. When my son reached the age of 18, I completely eliminated all contact with him. I don't think there is such a thing as a 'one-size-fits-all' answer to my individual lessons. However, I have benefitted greatly by sharing mine and I have benefitted and continue to benefit from all the replies to my initial post.

I forgot to say that my friend didn't get any apologies, but when he confronted them he didn't expect anything, he just wanted to express his deep anger. Perhaps the expectation of something make the action less effective or ineffective ?
But I agree, there is no 'one-size-fits-all' answer
As for marrying a psychopath and having a child of him, I know something about it, since I went through the same thing. If on the one hand I have settled my account with my ex-husband, I am still struggling to have the most right attitude towards my son who is now 22 years old and who has been brainwashed by his father in spite of all my efforts. But this is another story... (you can read about it in my introduction if you ever feel like it )

 

[Trobar]

I forgot to say that my friend didn't get any apologies, but when he confronted them he didn't expect anything, he just wanted to express his deep anger. Perhaps the expectation of something make the action less effective or ineffective ?
But I agree, there is no 'one-size-fits-all' answer
As for marrying a psychopath and having a child of him, I know something about it, since I went through the same thing. If on the one hand I have settled my account with my ex-husband, I am still struggling to have the most right attitude towards my son who is now 22 years old and who has been brainwashed by his father in spite of all my efforts. But this is another story... (you can read about it in my introduction if you ever feel like it )

Hello again Persephone,
I did not receive or expect apologies. However . . . I wanted one. Boy oh boy did I ever want an apology! I understand very much about your attitude regarding your son. I have 3 sons. In spite of the fact that they have all suffered abuse from their father, in many ways they don't/can't believe that he is as cruel and dangerous as I know he is.

 

[Menna]

Hello Menna,
You wrote: "If I may the marriage to a sociopath was inevitable when taking into consideration your childhood experiences and parents. You were attracted to the sociopath because thats what your being was familiar with at that time.
That is almost exactly what the psychologist said to me.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I do appreciate it.

Yes, well its logical.

I suggest focusing on healing yourself and learning about these peoples programs so you can build up your knowledge base and create a cleaner machine/being so you can avoide these certain people in the future using your knoeldge and cleaning your machine you can now attract "better" people into your life with a better magnetic pull so to say. Knowledge will prevent and healing emitions/intellectual centers will attract.


The psychopath next door and other books give this knowledge and you can relate to your own experience to build wisdom...experience and knowledge = wisdom. I would do these things first before you worry or concentate on forgiving or maybe it can happen in unison. You will have to decide the approach.

You may not want to recongnize it or validate it right now but these negative entities gave you experiences and through work you can now turn it into wisdom...The C's say that is why or part of why we are here. I must say the experiences are rather rude and don't need to be as drastic for us to use/learn but it appears this is the way it is.

 

[Trobar]

Yes, well its logical.

I suggest focusing on healing yourself and learning about these peoples programs so you can build up your knowledge base and create a cleaner machine/being so you can avoide these certain people in the future using your knoeldge and cleaning your machine you can now attract "better" people into your life with a better magnetic pull so to say. Knowledge will prevent and healing emitions/intellectual centers will attract.

Actually . . . I have been doing exactly that for the last 20 years. What I mean is that I have read hundreds of books and articles. I read the Sociopath Next Door the year it was published. I bought 3 extra copies and sent them to my three sons. The mask of sanity etc.
However, "The Molecules of Emotion" by Candace Pert taught me that my emotional challenges begin with a thought. Events and experiences color and shape who we are. I never ask for help. I tell myself "I can do this, I can get through this, I can handle this, I don't need help". etc. Although in many ways this has served me well, my armor doesn't let anyone in. This makes me feel 'safe'. I'm smart enough to understand where most of my imbalances lie. This is better than nothing. I do value this 'knowing'. It does feel like this journey is so very long. Posting here has already helped me immensely.

The psychopath next door and other books give this knowledge and you can relate to your own experience to build wisdom...experience and knowledge = wisdom. I would do these things first before you worry or concentate on forgiving or maybe it can happen in unison. You will have to decide the approach.

I am focused on forgiving myself and perhaps I will be able to understand who these people are when they are not manifested here and perhaps forgiveness is possible.

You may not want to recongnize it or validate it right now but these negative entities gave you experiences and through work you can now turn it into wisdom...The C's say that is why or part of why we are here. I must say the experiences are rather rude and don't need to be as drastic for us to use/learn but it appears this is the way it is.

I have made quite a bit of progress with this that you mention. For example, the Jehova's Witness fanatical parents taught me to actually live and not just wait and wait and wait. The JW parents provided me with a frame of reference for what I did not want to be as a parent. The pedophile taught me to be very vigilant and very protective of my children. There has been an abundance of lessons available. I think of these lessons as my precious jewels. I paid a very high price for them. If you ask my three sons what is the most important lesson taught by your mother? They will all answer "What is the lesson? What did you learn from that experience". I accept that I am STS. I am definitely a candidate because I want to be good and do good.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.

 

[Menna]

You are letting people in by posting and networking here. Congrats, onward and upward Other people’s words can lead to new perspectives and levels for you thus it’s not a bad idea to stay engaged Like you are. Others thoughts can finish your painting by providing another color you don’t have or provide a piece to a puzzle that wasn’t included in your box so to speak.... provide what you can’t “see”

EE breathing if you haven’t tried can help your being your intellectual center will be calmer thus your thoughts healthier thus your emotional center healthier as you mentioned you learned from the molecules book your intellectual center triggers your emotion so by healing/improving the function of your intellect you give your emotional center a chance to breath and it’s not controlled by intellect it can be its own center it’s own person within you that in balance with the other two you can work to find the real you. I find you just need to give your centers a brief rest from the everyday programs and it does wonders even if the break is only a moment you now can recognize this new moment in you What it took to get their and how to get back home....take care

 

[Persephone]

I have made quite a bit of progress with this that you mention. For example, the Jehova's Witness fanatical parents taught me to actually live and not just wait and wait and wait.

We definitely have several things in common Trobar . My parents were also (my mother still is) Jehova's witnesses, then my father left the sect and big conflicts ensued between him and my mother. This led me to research and study metaphysics, religions and philosophies in order to understand, to find answers.

I'm smart enough to understand where most of my imbalances lie. This is better than nothing. I do value this 'knowing'.

This has also been my case for years, reading and studying a lot and being smart enough to understand... intellectually. But this was not enough to release, process and integrate the emotional stuff. What helped me a lot at a certain point, was the 5 rhythms dance, a work, through movement, music and breathing on 5 basic emotions: fear, anger, sadness, joy and compassion. Among other things I realised that often in my case, anger, beyond the repressed "right" anger, was a protection against feeling sadness and grief. Every time someone's words or behaviour (directly or indirectly) could bring me to touch this deep buried pain I would automatically get angry to avoid feeling it because I was so afraid that it would overwhelm me, that my heart wouldn't be able to bear it.
I also find that E.E. is a powerful tool for releasing blocked emotions and regulation, it helped me with what was left....

It does feel like this journey is so very long.

Yes, it is a long process and this taught me patience (which was by far my strong suit), towards myself and towards others too, and what accelerated the process considerably was to recognise and accept that I could not get trough alone. It wasn't just a mental understanding. I had been living with the thought of suicide for a while and at some point I realised with my whole being that I could not leave yet, that this was not what my soul wanted because I had not shared, passed on the lessons I had learned in my life, small as they were, but in order to do so I had to cleanse my mental and emotional programming which had been pushing me towards darkness for too long, so to speak. For the first time, after many years I truly prayed for help, a help for achieving this.
Help came a few months later in the form of a wonderful man who had the same quest as me and to whom I made the commitment to open up completely, to show my dark side, to share all my "secrets", the most buried ones, which I was ashamed to confess even to myself. He did the same with me. It was, and still is, the most liberating experience I have ever had.
This led me/us to study Laura's works and to register in this forum too and my work continues thanks to that, as it does for you.

As for your health problems, I also wonder if the suffering, or guilt, or whatever "negative" emotions you feel about your children are not also to take into account. In my case I have had a lot of trouble (and it's not over yet) with the guilt of not being up to the task (I know it's not the case, but the feeling is still there a bit) of preventing my son from being "trapped" by my ex-husband. I have certainly accepted to a certain extent that I have to let him live his experience and lessons but I must admit that the fear of "losing" him completely is still "working in the back".

 

[Trobar]

Hello,
I'm posting to once again thank everyone that replied to my post. In a sort of 'magical' way, the dark cloud that has been my constant companion has floated away. When I awaken every day, I realize immediately hat it is not there. I could write more here and I will not as even a 1000 pages cannot even remotely describe the relief and joy that all of you helped me achieve through the forgiveness lesson.
Sharing a topic that was so very personal was extremely difficult for me and I am sharing this because there are certainly others who hesitate to post here and ask for help. Thank you!

 

[Princess Lux 🌷]

I have just read this thread and share a similar experience with Trobar. I also would want some insight in my case. My family does not know what happened. I was four when my uncle sexually abused me until I was 10. I didn't know it is abuse and no one told me about it. I am the only daughter of my parents and I do not know how they will respond. I do not want my mother to worry nor my dad to be enraged although these are just my assumptions. My dilemma is whether or not I should tell them about what happened.

I also have times when I feel betrayed for how can one just do that to a person without consent or where there is a violation of one's free will esp to a child. I do not know how to process it. I ask myself sometimes what I want to happen so I can move forward but I dont think I have an answer too.

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

I have just read this thread and share a similar experience with Trobar. I also would want some insight in my case. My family does not know what happened. I was four when my uncle sexually abused me until I was 10. I didn't know it is abuse and no one told me about it. I am the only daughter of my parents and I do not know how they will respond. I do not want my mother to worry nor my dad to be enraged although these are just my assumptions. My dilemma is whether or not I should tell them about what happened.

Princess Lux, I am so dreadfully sorry for what you experienced. I would not be capable of advising you on what to do now, but I would ask a few questions first,.

1. Is your Uncle still alive.

2.Do you believe telling your parents at this late stage would benefit you/them.

If your Uncle is still alive maybe the police should be informed so no other child endures this?

If he is dead then only you know. It's in your past and you are now an adult so if you really want to share this with your parents only you can decide, I think.

 

[Princess Lux 🌷]

1. Is your Uncle still alive.

Yes and I saw him last month when I went to my grandma's house and tried to avoid him and just do as little contact with him as possible.

2.Do you believe telling your parents at this late stage would benefit you/them.

I do not know how will it be for them. As for me, I think I wanted to prove something to them that I wasnt the child they thought they know. They have always told me that I was different from my brothers and gaslight for the things they have endured from the day I was born. The incident I believe is one factor that has hindered us from having a connection, which I wanted to have. To this day, I am still seen in a frame where Im the hardest kid to put with. Since I am not a parent, I am curious that if you are my dad or mom, would you want to know? I felt rob of my time and the kind of life that would look like, if I wasn't abused.

I am now 28 and things started to have a lot more sense to me just last year why I grew up like that. I have worked on taking responsibility and accountability for my actions yet how can I do that when I am the victim and didnt ask for it? Should I be thankful for my suffering because I have developed compassion? To what extent should I be grateful? If I want to not identify with playing as the victim, how can I proceed? My uncle has a family now. I think I want justice but I dont know what will that look like. Do I want to see him in jail and leave his children to grow up not having a father? If the worse will happen and my father would want him killed, do I want that?

 

[Maya]

Everyone has the right to speak their own truth.
How it will affect villains in your story - well, just let the karma do it's work.

It's not that you will be telling any lies so you have to be worried how it would affect poor little them, right ?
And it's not revenge either. It's just truth and justice.

And you will probably save someone else by the way, by giving example.
You are not responsible for what happened to you. You were a child.

And most important, you are not what happened to you.
You are this grown, responsible and strong person realising these are only experiences and lessons.
Wondering how to learn, grow, make it better place for all of us. For your children.

Take care Princess Lux and Trobar, be strong, ease your pain with EE, let go and shine your light !
I thing you already know it all

 

[Zzartemis]

I'm really sorry sweetie that this happened to you as a child.

Here's the thing @Princess Lux 🌷 you, your siblings and your cousins all may in the future have children, or do have children. Those children and future children should be kept away from your uncle. I don't see any other way for their protection other than to tell what he did to you. THAT, in itself, removes any wrestling in your mind about family fallout such as your father's anger.

I can tell you what I'd do, but it is based on how I handle situations. I came through childhood unscathed, but in adulthood, I've been subjected to every form of abuse. Something happens to me when I see absuse of children and women....or even to myself...I fight back.

I think you should tell your mum and dad first. You need this healing. And hopefully, they can help you in where to go from there concerning that POS uncle of yours. I'd face the uncle, ask my parents to face him with me. Whether they'd do it or not, is unknown, but it would at least give them the ability to do what they might have done for their little girl, had they known. Your siblings should be told, to give them knowledge to protect their children.

As for the rest of the family, your cousins...I can't say how to do this....Maybe your brothers can tell the cousins.

On the other hand, this could all fly in your face and have outcomes where family members will question the truth, get angry at you for telling...You just can't tell how people will react.

Don't build up any senario in your imagination of how you think it should play out. I didn't tell any family members of my rape and other incident of horror, at the hands of a psychopath, until years later; some still don't know. I went through that alone, except for my, at the time, 16 year old son, and he went to his death wanting to kill the people who hurt me...that rage in my son was a constant worry to me because these people still walk the streets. With the rest of my family, it didn't play out in reality like I thought it would. They were simply overwhelmed by it.

I've known so many women who were victims of incest or molested by family friends, including my mother, that it boggles the mind. Hearing their stories, many a family was ripped up by it. So, that's why I'm advising you to steel yourself for any reaction from those you tell. However, the children in your family of today and tommorow need you to tell the truth.