The forgiveness lesson

[Princess Lux 🌷]

And most important, you are not what happened to you.
You are this grown, responsible and strong person realising these are only experiences and lessons.
Wondering how to learn, grow, make it better place for all of us. For your children.

Take care Princess Lux and Trobar, be strong, ease your pain with EE, let go and shine your light !
I thing you already know it all

Thank you for your words @Maya ! I must admit that I was carried by my emotions while typing earlier. I have meditated about it and I have hope and at a little peace with the experience. I still have occasional crying moments and I think, Id just alot some time for that and guard myself not to drown.

Don't build up any senario in your imagination of how you think it should play out.

This is true. Last year, I thought of telling my brother about it but since he is staying at another city, we didnt really had the chance to talk and catch up on some things though I have already told him last time that I will tell him a secret. Que sera, sera.

 

[Mark7]

Tobar, you have been through a lot, time does heal.

On the subject of relational forgiveness it basically states that forgiveness is a two way street - it's dependent on the perpetrator/s accepting and admitting that they have caused harm, taking full responsibility for it and committing to change - but even then they don't earn forgiveness until they can fully demonstrate that change for a long period of time and it doesn't mean that the victim has to re-enter any kind of relationship with them. I don't think too many abusers would authentically take those steps.

On the subject of psychological forgiveness it talks about letting go of any need of personal revenge or hatred, but that it shouldn't be pressured until the victim has developed or regained self respect because hatred and anger or rage can be a proper response to abuse. Forgiveness doesn't mean that the perpetrator/s escape retribution, just that we personally lose any personal investment in that happening.

In any case, maybe taking it a bit easier on yourself as far as forgiveness goes for now will be helpful and concentrate on the sorts of things that can help you strengthen self respect as well as processing anger as others have said.

What is painful for me is not being able to stop caring for someone even after being hurt. One doesn't even know if that hurtful person has a soul than can even feel a pang of conscience for past misdeeds. What good is caring for a person who has no soul and cannot suffer or learn from mistakes? If they have a soul and eventually learn and change, the shame may be too much for them to ask for forgiveness, and even hate you somehow. You really just don't know sometimes, and there is nothing that can be done except accept the thing you cannot change. This is the pain of lost love, of a son or daughter gone astray, watching your country go insane, and not having closure after the disappearance of a loved one.

Maybe something can happen someday that will heal even the past. The power of love can be pretty surprising and awesome, but you have to accept that there really is no hope for some people. We really don't know. We can't pray for people to change, that would be a violation of their will, and perhaps Dharma. Remember Ceasar.

 

[Renaissance]

I also have times when I feel betrayed for how can one just do that to a person without consent or where there is a violation of one's free will esp to a child. I do not know how to process it. I ask myself sometimes what I want to happen so I can move forward but I dont think I have an answer too.

If you haven't done so already, talking to a professional who specializes in this would probably be a helpful step in working toward processing what you have gone through. This may also help with how you go about talking to your family about it too. It is good to be prepared with how members of your family could respond, and some preparation for different situations can be helpful. Denial from others can be a really powerful so it will be good to know what you may be up against.

You also mentioned that your uncle now has a family. If there is the possibility that he may be abusing his own child or children (or other children that may be in his life), this is also important where a professional could help you through the ideal steps to take too.

 

[Princess Lux 🌷]

Hi @Renaissance !

I have also thought of talking to a professional. What I wanted to achieve is to work on the trauma to be out of my system so I went to a bodytalk therapist instead to a therapist where I will "just talk about it." I have decided that I will talk about it with my brother, so fingers crossed.

 

[Menna]

I have been seriously ill for the last two years. I know that the root cause of my illness is the fact that I am
"stuck" in what we perceive to be the past. My history includes incest as a child, fanatical abusive cult members for parents and marriage to an abusive sociopath. I have thus far not succeeded in forgiving these people and I am certain this is the major obstacle that hinders my recovery. Learning to forgive is a profoundly challenging and valuable lesson for me.

I do not wish to revisit the sordid details of my past experiences. This is very painful and I have already addressed this in therapy with a psychologist.
I am posting because perhaps some of you that read this post have struggled with this lesson. Intellectually . . . I am able to understand that STS will always include those that abuse others. Emotionally . . . I still feel so much anger that I have failed to forgive them. I do want to forgive and I want to forgive while I am still here.

I would value and appreciate your input on this subject.

There is no fail there is only what is learned at this point in your cycle…You will forgive when you are ready and you want to forgive. Give it “Time”

Do you have interests or goals you want to achiever or work towards that take mental emotional and physical effort? Do you care more about achieving your wants than holding on to the past from a negative active force type of way that clouds your intellectual emotional and physical bodies? Right now you don’t. One of the many lessons you can learn from what happened to you is to let go. Can you take a loss and let it go and truly move forward? Who knows this time 3 years from now maybe you will or sooner.

Survivors more forward FWIW

And

They are still abusing you if you are actively carrying it around with you. Let them go the abuse hasn’t stopped and it will never turn off like a light switch but you need to make efforts to subside the % of mental and emotional abuse that you carry around little by little you can reduce it to where you can operate as a person that suffices in this world and in your life. It will never 100% leave you until you leave this life cope while you make measurable improvements. Give yourself a week of being active and being immersed in activities and interests can you do this?

 

[Renaissance]

Hi @Renaissance !

I have also thought of talking to a professional. What I wanted to achieve is to work on the trauma to be out of my system so I went to a bodytalk therapist instead to a therapist where I will "just talk about it." I have decided that I will talk about it with my brother, so fingers crossed.

Bodytalk looks interesting. I've looked into it before and I think these types of modalities may be quite useful for processing stored trauma in the body. Just be aware that talking with family may bring some unique challenges. I was thinking about talking with a traditional therapist in the sexual abuse field may be of help in navigating this aspect. Just a thought.

 

[Princess Lux 🌷]

Bodytalk looks interesting. I've looked into it before and I think these types of modalities may be quite useful for processing stored trauma in the body. Just be aware that talking with family may bring some unique challenges. I was thinking about talking with a traditional therapist in the sexual abuse field may be of help in navigating this aspect. Just a thought.

It is! I have wanted to talk about it in the forum but just havent had the time to research yet because I wanted to finish reading some books and I find it interesting how they develop a kind of knowing for your traumas. I remember my therapist said that it is a science. Looks like Im drifting off the topic here. hihi I posted it here but I dont think I have given enough info for all to understand. I will surely look into it when I know more.

Thank you @Renaissance :D

 

[Happy Poo]

I have been seriously ill for the last two years. I know that the root cause of my illness is the fact that I am
"stuck" in what we perceive to be the past. My history includes incest as a child, fanatical abusive cult members for parents and marriage to an abusive sociopath. I have thus far not succeeded in forgiving these people and I am certain this is the major obstacle that hinders my recovery. Learning to forgive is a profoundly challenging and valuable lesson for me.

I do not wish to revisit the sordid details of my past experiences. This is very painful and I have already addressed this in therapy with a psychologist.
I am posting because perhaps some of you that read this post have struggled with this lesson. Intellectually . . . I am able to understand that STS will always include those that abuse others. Emotionally . . . I still feel so much anger that I have failed to forgive them. I do want to forgive and I want to forgive while I am still here.

I would value and appreciate your input on this subject.

Hi Trobar, thank you for sharing my heart goes out to you.
I'm struggling with a similar thing, what you said really stuck a chord deeply, although what I've been through is very different, but I'm still facing the same dilemmas.
Thank you for sharing and raising this subject.
So many thoughts come to mind.. But they definitely aren't there to be able to put a helpful response.. It's really difficult to put things into words sometimes, what you said really got me thinking and I've been working on a poem that goes into this subject kind of, although the experiences it's based on are probably not very relevant to what you have been through..
Been doing this for the sake of self healing and am hoping it may help others, or if not will be of some use to someone. . As without some kind of forgiveness i found that inner peace is really difficult to attain in my experience, so it's not always about them in some cases, but about finding and reclaiming health.

And also I'm pretty certain that some folks who have done me wrong will never admit it, and in some cases may even bragg about it! Very frustrating.

A thought was, they dont even have to know I've forgiven them, it's more about finding peace inside, self help. And it doesn't mean i will forget what they did.. Or allow a couple of them back into my life or anywhere near me if i can help it - their negative energies are so intense that it wouldn't be wise. Some people definitely deserve the benefit of doubt and are victims just like me, and I've done them wrong too as they are very loving people who have experienced many difficulties themselves, but others definitely don't deserve the benefit of doubt and I've had to detach myself completely as they are very harmful, selfish and almost psychopathic. But i know that if I'm carrying round feelings of resentment, it ends up really weighing me down, and consuming me which isn't good in any way.
I guess it depends on each situation too .. It would take a long time to explain and like you don't feel it's good to go into great detail and would take pages and pages! Just some thoughts.


Bless you for sharing, love to you.

 

[Happy Poo]

Hi Trobar, thank you for sharing my heart goes out to you.
I'm struggling with a similar thing, what you said really stuck a chord deeply, although what I've been through is very different, but I'm still facing the same dilemmas.
Thank you for sharing and raising this subject.
So many thoughts come to mind.. But they definitely aren't there to be able to put a helpful response.. It's really difficult to put things into words sometimes, what you said really got me thinking and I've been working on a poem that goes into this subject kind of, although the experiences it's based on are probably not very relevant to what you have been through..
Been doing this for the sake of self healing and am hoping it may help others, or if not will be of some use to someone. . As without some kind of forgiveness i found that inner peace is really difficult to attain in my experience, so it's not always about them in some cases, but about finding and reclaiming health.

And also I'm pretty certain that some folks who have done me wrong will never admit it, and in some cases may even bragg about it! Very frustrating.

A thought was, they dont even have to know I've forgiven them, it's more about finding peace inside, self help. And it doesn't mean i will forget what they did.. Or allow a couple of them back into my life or anywhere near me if i can help it - their negative energies are so intense that it wouldn't be wise. Some people definitely deserve the benefit of doubt and are victims just like me, and I've done them wrong too as they are very loving people who have experienced many difficulties themselves, but others definitely don't deserve the benefit of doubt and I've had to detach myself completely as they are very harmful, selfish and almost psychopathic. But i know that if I'm carrying round feelings of resentment, it ends up really weighing me down, and consuming me which isn't good in any way.
I guess it depends on each situation too .. It would take a long time to explain and like you don't feel it's good to go into great detail and would take pages and pages! Just some thoughts.


Bless you for sharing, love to you.

I should correct myself, when I said it's, "not always about them" i meant, they may never understand what they've done is wrong, and trying to get them to understand, in my experience, or say sorry would just be totally pointless, so what they think about it is irrelevant. I don't care what they think in some cases! Not interested. It's like Some people seem to enjoy the pain they cause others, which is even more difficult to get over.. Apologies this is difficult to put into words.

 

[Wandering Star]

I should correct myself, when I said it's, "not always about them" i meant, they may never understand what they've done is wrong, and trying to get them to understand, in my experience, or say sorry would just be totally pointless, so what they think about it is irrelevant. I don't care what they think in some cases! Not interested. It's like Some people seem to enjoy the pain they cause others, which is even more difficult to get over.. Apologies this is difficult to put into words.

When I look back and I see what they have done to me and I calmly analyze it, I see a program that comes from generations. It is inherited from father to son over and over again.

For example, I remember what my wife told me about a conversation with her grandmother when our marriage began.

Does he hit you honey? -asked her grandmother to my wife.

No grandma, never! - my wife replied.

You don't know how glad I am that this is finally over with you! -replied her grandmother.

All the women had violence at home in their family.

Of course there is no excuse for hurting someone, but we all know how powerful the programming that is imposed on us from a young age is.

Understanding is important and I believe that it is what leads to healing and to acting more precisely according to the law of three.

Cheer up.

 

[Happy Poo]

When I look back and I see what they have done to me and I calmly analyze it, I see a program that comes from generations. It is inherited from father to son over and over again.

For example, I remember what my wife told me about a conversation with her grandmother when our marriage began.

Does he hit you honey? -asked her grandmother to my wife.

No grandma, never! - my wife replied.

You don't know how glad I am that this is finally over with you! -replied her grandmother.

All the women had violence at home in their family.

Of course there is no excuse for hurting someone, but we all know how powerful the programming that is imposed on us from a young age is.

Understanding is important and I believe that it is what leads to healing and to acting more precisely according to the law of three.

Cheer up.

Funny you should say, as it was violence from a guy that happened to me, who was linked to someone close to me, which is one of the things I was referring too in my post, and i understand that his programming was really negative from a young age.. He didn't have the good fortune to have be brought up in a loving environment like i did.
And so I also understand that he will never understand, or apologise.. And don't expect him to, (if that makes sense). And he kind of enjoyed it to cut a long story short. But yea, it's not nice to be on the receiving end. So i agree with you, and this is a path to forgiveness, well I hope so..

 

[Voyageur]

The incident I believe is one factor that has hindered us from having a connection, which I wanted to have. To this day, I am still seen in a frame where Im the hardest kid to put with. Since I am not a parent, I am curious that if you are my dad or mom, would you want to know? I felt rob of my time and the kind of life that would look like, if I wasn't abused.

I am now 28 and things started to have a lot more sense to me just last year why I grew up like that. I have worked on taking responsibility and accountability for my actions yet how can I do that when I am the victim and didnt ask for it? Should I be thankful for my suffering because I have developed compassion? To what extent should I be grateful? If I want to not identify with playing as the victim, how can I proceed? My uncle has a family now. I think I want justice but I dont know what will that look like. Do I want to see him in jail and leave his children to grow up not having a father? If the worse will happen and my father would want him killed, do I want that?

On the other hand, this could all fly in your face and have outcomes where family members will question the truth, get angry at you for telling...You just can't tell how people will react.

They have always told me that I was different from my brothers and gaslight for the things they have endured from the day I was born.

To reiterate upon what others have said, it was never your fault obviously, and to proceed externally may require disclosure. To proceed internally alone, which you have been doing for 18 years based on your age and when this happened, you will need to ask many questions to further evaluate (which you are doing) and find solid ground.

All in all, it is a difficult situation, one that does not reassure with the position of your family through your words, as understood - as @Zzartemis said, they might make your life (including from the uncles side) extremely difficult, however only you can know.

One of my initial thoughts is that:

My uncle has a family now

Which means he has children, children who might one day also suffer as you have, which no doubt is of mind. Be that as it may, families that already harbour feelings against (in your case you have stated examples) can go to great lengths to protect against threats. It might be reasonable to say that they, or some, could see your truth as a threat. To know what they might do is to be forearmed.

You have brothers, can you confide to one or both of them, if not already done so? Any brother worth his salt would want to know. If not so, it might be enough to have at least one person who shares in your burden and can offer further advice.

Since I am not a parent, I am curious that if you are my dad or mom, would you want to know? I felt rob of my time and the kind of life that would look like, if I wasn't abused.

Your uncle is either your father or mother's brother, now if your were the daughter of any number of people here and they knew - and they would want to know, I sure would, they would probably not hesitate to take a harsh stand. If your father alone knew and could bear it, and at minimum put this uncle on notice, that might help. If there is a priest or a nun, that might also help. So far, though, you have unburdened to this network and that may also help you find a way through this to move onwards.

Others have provided their personal thoughts, so take it slow and network.

Lastly, I do not know if you have read from the romance thread or not. Can say that from reading, so many situations come up along these lines that it might be worth delving in. If anything, some stories might help to gain insights into those, fictional and yet real, people who also suffered.

 

[Happy Poo]

Just like to some balance to the comment i put about how some folks cannot or won't be able to understand that the things they have done have/are hurting others.

I've also found that in other cases, of people whom we may feel have let us down in some way, is that they may be very open to talking and sorting things out. And I've found that opening up and talking to them is really beneficial for us both.

And in one instance, that again would take a long time to explain properly, doing this was a great help even if it was one of the hardest things I've had to do.
It took a long time to think things through about how i was going to go about putting things into words, practicing and kind of rehearsals to myself. Trying to express in a more diplomatic and kind way, whilst at the same time being honest about how i felt on the situation. The person I'm referring too, is a close family member and he was also relieved that i was being honest, and felt better too. We both had the chance to open up to each other about what we thought deserved attention and sorry's. I've also said stuff which I knew was wrong in anger and it actually only made me feel worse about the situation. This gave me the opportunity to apologise about this and clear feelings from my conscience.
What i found really difficult was being honest, as the last thing i wanted to to was hurt anyone.
But with a lot of introspection, practice and patience was more able to put things in such a way that it was beneficial to both of us, instead of saying things in anger, due to past wounds from painful experiences - which is how i used to deal with things.
At the time i was afraid to do it, and during these difficult conversations, felt very uncomfortable to say the least. But when i was honest, they too felt better and it actually gave them a chance to open up too.
I mean, every situation is so different but just thought I'd share this to add balance to what i said before.
In this particular case, sharing my true feelings in a more loving way brought us closer together, and brought healing to us both, which was actually a wonderful feeling and It was like a weight lifted that had been there for a very very long time.

 

[Princess Lux 🌷]

You have brothers, can you confide to one or both of them, if not already done so? Any brother worth his salt would want to know. If not so, it might be enough to have at least one person who shares in your burden and can offer further advice.

I do have a brother I can trust and plans to tell him about it soon.

Not to put the thread off topic, I think on my part, I will have to be prepared and accept however things will turn out and if forgiveness shall be asked or not.

I appreciate the time and the input you all have given. Thank youuu!

 

[Happy Poo]

Just like to some balance to the comment i put about how some folks cannot or won't be able to understand that the things they have done have/are hurting others.

I've also found that in other cases, of people whom we may feel have let us down in some way, is that they may be very open to talking and sorting things out. And I've found that opening up and talking to them is really beneficial for us both.

And in one instance, that again would take a long time to explain properly, doing this was a great help even if it was one of the hardest things I've had to do.
It took a long time to think things through about how i was going to go about putting things into words, practicing and kind of rehearsals to myself. Trying to express in a more diplomatic and kind way, whilst at the same time being honest about how i felt on the situation. The person I'm referring too, is a close family member and he was also relieved that i was being honest, and felt better too. We both had the chance to open up to each other about what we thought deserved attention and sorry's. I've also said stuff which I knew was wrong in anger and it actually only made me feel worse about the situation. This gave me the opportunity to apologise about this and clear feelings from my conscience.
What i found really difficult was being honest, as the last thing i wanted to to was hurt anyone.
But with a lot of introspection, practice and patience was more able to put things in such a way that it was beneficial to both of us, instead of saying things in anger, due to past wounds from painful experiences - which is how i used to deal with things.
At the time i was afraid to do it, and during these difficult conversations, felt very uncomfortable to say the least. But when i was honest, they too felt better and it actually gave them a chance to open up too.
I mean, every situation is so different but just thought I'd share this to add balance to what i said before.
In this particular case, sharing my true feelings in a more loving way brought us closer together, and brought healing to us both, which was actually a wonderful feeling and It was like a weight lifted that had been there for a very very long time.

Just to say, (always saying to myself it's good to be open about stuff so trying not to be hypocritical).. The family member I'm referring to is my brother, and I regret saying some things in anger in the past.

Because of my own stress.. And some recent lessons and experiences, (which would take way too long to explain), Realised that I was wrong in some of the things I said and the way it was said. So felt it important to say that. Anyway thanks to whoever is listening and apology if this is noise..