The forgiveness lesson

[Trobar]

I did not and I believed the text is so general it cannot by any means be used to track, intimidate or harm anybody (i.e. Trobar). I would not share the story if I had even a little doubt otherwise. I am sorry if I messed it up. Of course what you say is a very important to keep in mind. If mods think the previous post should be deleted, be it. Trobar, if you want me to delete the FB group post, I apologize for possible damage and will do so immediately. You are right, Renaissance. I should have asked. Have gone way too much ahead of myself, thinking of potential benefit without ensuring privacy and safety of members. I'm very sorry. Awaiting suggestions...

Please delete the FB group post.

 

[anka]

Please delete the FB group post.

Done. I apologize for the short-circuit thinking, Trobar. Never occurred to me how stupid I was about to act. Don't know what to say or do now. Is there anything else I can do to help fix this?

 

[Cassandane]

I have been seriously ill for the last two years. I know that the root cause of my illness is the fact that I am
"stuck" in what we perceive to be the past. My history includes incest as a child, fanatical abusive cult members for parents and marriage to an abusive sociopath. I have thus far not succeeded in forgiving these people and I am certain this is the major obstacle that hinders my recovery. Learning to forgive is a profoundly challenging and valuable lesson for me.

I do not wish to revisit the sordid details of my past experiences. This is very painful and I have already addressed this in therapy with a psychologist.
I am posting because perhaps some of you that read this post have struggled with this lesson. Intellectually . . . I am able to understand that STS will always include those that abuse others. Emotionally . . . I still feel so much anger that I have failed to forgive them. I do want to forgive and I want to forgive while I am still here.

I would value and appreciate your input on this subject.

Although I don't know you, I can't help but care about your plight, and I would like to hazard a guess that what you are suffering from now is PTSD. I say this having endured 16 years of incest and child abuse myself...followed by 30 years of therapy and reading dozens of books pertaining to psychology, how the brain works, and the effects of trauma.

My take on PTSD:
Post - After things are (mostly) over
Traumatic - Acute and/or chronic shocks
Stress - The tremendous effort it takes to survive the above.
Disorder - I don't think of PTSD as a disorder. PTSD is a perfectly natural and orderly progression of internal events that follows the cessation of a long period of extreme stress.

What's going on when a person is suffering from PTSD:
As an abused child, a person's world narrows to focus only on survival. Terror, hyper-vigilance, and holding oneself in constant readiness for degrading and humiliating assault become normal facts of life. When the need to constantly steel oneself for battle is no longer there, the effect can be one of a speeding train suddenly running out of tracks at the edge of a precipice. The situation is almost as difficult to deal with as abuse: Who am I, now that I do not have adults screaming that I am _________ (insert cruel epithet of the day)? What the heck do I do with myself now that everything I've known and had to push against for so long has gone?

People naturally gravitate toward the known and familiar, which is why many abuse survivors immediately jump into abusive marriages or gangs once they are free - or in order to get free - of the original abusers. Often they get seriously ill and allow the allopathic medical establishment to apply its frequently barbaric methods that are so similar to abuse. We conjure up new situations that repeat what we've just gone through because it's all we know. Even our minds get in on the act and bring up memories that cause us to revisit the way we once were. Or worse yet, the memories don't reach our conscious minds, but their ghosts do, in the form of a smell, a hated word or phrase, or a face, and then we go back into survivor mode and overreact to something in the present.

How do you deal with a life that does not offer such extreme stress? It can seem so dull and boring that you can't stand it. It is like a death, the death of a way of life you are used to, and eminently suited to dealing with, since you have survived it. The effects of grief are legion. People call them 'stages'. The first is disbelief: It can't be over! Then anger, the first step toward acceptance of the situation, a sort of 'who moved my cheese?' anger, a feeling that things are out of control. When you've been used to expending an enormous amount of energy trying to survive, anger is also a natural vent for the energy you no longer need to use.

For what it's worth, in my opinion it is not yet time for you to forgive those who abused you. It is time for you to end the abuse you are continuing to heap on yourself. Abuse is all that the terrified, pre-verbal child inside you knows. Circumstances have ingrained terror in you as the primary way to deal with the world. What other way could there be? Your task is to find out.

How? I can tell you what worked for me. What works for you may be different. Things to look for when changing your inner landscape are things that will satisfy basic needs, such as the need to be loved and the need to feel safe. Whatever you try should appeal to you on an emotional, not necessarily an intellectual, level. Remember the pre-verbal child inside.

I immersed myself in flowers. I would spend hours examining the perfection of rose petals and how a rose bush spends the entire summer producing dozens of mostly perfect rosebuds. Then I realized that the bush doesn't care whether the buds are perfect. It sends nutrients even to the damaged or deformed ones, and in the end they produce rosehips just like the perfect ones. I thought that perhaps there is also hope for me. For the winter, I would send away for plant and bulb catalogues and look at the pictures before bed. I often dreamed of peacefully walking in gardens and fields of wildflowers. It cut down considerably on the nightmares.

It may help to move away. Different scenery can produce different landscapes in the brain. I took an opportunity to move to a different country. Yes, to some extent it will follow you, but it's easier to spot the patterns in your own thinking when you're removed from the original situation. Step away from the past as much as you can so you can investigate other ways of being. A wound will never heal when it is constantly being torn open again and again.

A therapist once asked me what I would do to comfort my small daughter if she had suffered an upset. The therapist suggested I give myself the same caring and sympathy I would give to her. Sometimes it can be helpful to project love onto another being so you can see it in action and experience it vicariously. This seems weirdly circular, but I'm sure I was raising myself while I was raising my children.

I feel in my heart, though, that it is not by accident that some people suffer horrendous abuse. I was talking on the phone to my sister one day, and a memory came back to me of myself when I was about 4 years old. I remembered being full of energy and always running around and getting into things, a reckless, noisy, holy terror! I was largely heedless of other people and just wanted to explore the world. It was a view of myself I'd long forgotten and had long since ceased to be. Some time later, I found myself wondering about the person I might have been if I had not been crushed by abuse. It occurred to me that I might never have developed empathy and concern for other people - or considerable strength - if I had gone on my merry way and lived a 'normal' life. It may well be that, used properly, suffering abuse can be a tool for setting oneself on the path to STO.

I don't know if any of this will help you, but I could not hear of your suffering and say nothing if I could offer you any hope.

Hugs!

 

[Trobar]

Done. I apologize for the short-circuit thinking, Trobar. Never occurred to me how stupid I was about to act. Don't know what to say or do now. Is there anything else I can do to help fix this?

Hello Anka, I have not been able to respond to the most recent posts because although each post has been helpful in many different ways, I have also been feeling overwhelmed. However, I must respond to you. You were absolutely not stupid! You are not stupid. I am certain that posting on FB was completely well intentioned. Unfortunately, when any one of us posts, there is no way we can crawl into someone's mind and know the other stuff they may be carrying around. I have a like/dislike relationship with the internet. I have been somewhat paranoid since the very beginning of owning a computer and utilizing the internet. I know it is NEVER private. Yes. we can work with very sophisticated encryption and then there is the subject of highly skilled hackers. etc. I was hacked about 20 years ago and it just made matters worse. There is no way that you could have known this and thus your post of FB was not inappropriate. An idea to consider is to just acknowledge that this happened. Give it it's due reverence and lose your attachment to it. LOL! I'm better at giving advice then I am at accepting advice. Be well. Be peaceful.

 

[Renaissance]

Hello Anka, I have not been able to respond to the most recent posts because although each post has been helpful in many different ways, I have also been feeling overwhelmed. However, I must respond to you. You were absolutely not stupid! You are not stupid. I am certain that posting on FB was completely well intentioned. Unfortunately, when any one of us posts, there is no way we can crawl into someone's mind and know the other stuff they may be carrying around. I have a like/dislike relationship with the internet. I have been somewhat paranoid since the very beginning of owning a computer and utilizing the internet. I know it is NEVER private. Yes. we can work with very sophisticated encryption and then there is the subject of highly skilled hackers. etc. I was hacked about 20 years ago and it just made matters worse. There is no way that you could have known this and thus your post of FB was not inappropriate. An idea to consider is to just acknowledge that this happened. Give it it's due reverence and lose your attachment to it. LOL! I'm better at giving advice then I am at accepting advice. Be well. Be peaceful.

I'm heartened to see how forgiving you are to Anka. Seems to me you're actually damn good at it, and that's quite the beautiful lesson.

 

[Arwenn]

I’m really sorry to hear about what you have been through, @Trobar Something that I’ve learned from my personal experiences is that sometimes guilt, shame & self-loathing is worse than feelings of anger and resentment towards those that wronged you. Like others have mentioned before, sometimes, the person you really need to forgive is yourself. You were not to blame.

I’m not sure if you have read Laura’s Wave series of books- this part came to mind from Ch 15, relating a cathartic release that Laura had during a breathing/meditation session one night:

I had absolutely no control over any of it at all. If I attempted to slow it down, stop it, or switch my mind in another direction, the inner sensation of explosive eruption rapidly took over, all the muscles in my body would begin to clench up and I was no longer in control. I could only sit there as a sort of instrument of grief and lamentation, and literally sob my heart out for every horror of history in which I had seemingly participated or to which I had possibly been a witness. I think that there were even some that I was simply aware of and in which there had been no participation. And some of them were truly horrible scenes.

Plague and pestilence and death and destruction. Scene after scene. Loved ones standing one moment, crushed or laying in bloody heaps the next. Rapaciousness, pillaging, plundering; rivers of blood and gore; slaughter, carnage and butchery in all its many manifestations passed before my eyes; holocaust and hell. Rage and hot anger, bloodlust and fury, murder and mayhem, all around me, everywhere I looked. Evil heaped on evil like twisted, dismembered bodies. And the grief of centuries, the unshed tears of millennia, the guilt, remorse and penitence, flooded through me; melting, thawing and dissolving the burdensome shell of stone that encased my petrified heart; washing away the pain with my tears — an ocean of tears.

At the same time as this release of the worlds of accumulated guilt and grief of many lifetimes was going on, there was the voice in the background, ever soothing, ever calming, intoning over and over again: “It’s not your fault. There is no blame. It’s not your fault. You didn’t know.” And I came to understand something very deep.

I understood that there is no “original sin”. I understood that the terrors and suffering mankind experiences here in life on earth are not the result of some sort of mistake or error or aberration. They are not punishments. They are not something that one can be saved from, for I understood that every scene of terrible suffering and heart-rending cruelty was the result of ignorance

...I could see that all so-called evil and wickedness was a manifestation of ignorance and that there is no person, no matter how holy and elevated they may think they are in this life, who has not reveled in the shedding of another’s blood in some other time and place

...When anyone did something that hurt me, I knew that I had done such things as well. I could no longer feel any judgment or criticism of anything or anybody because I knew that, at some place and time, it was myself I was judging. It had been a learning process, and I grew from each experience. I learned what not to do by doing it. And, in a very real sense, this is the reason for pain and suffering. It is like an automatic guidance system that keeps a person on the path of learning.

 

[altomaltes]

Hi.
This type of things involving childs concern me and make sad at great extent.
I've an innate connection whith them. Dozens of times, totally extrangers from 4 years ran from their parents to me on the street before their astonished ( and sometimes embarrased) parents. I've many events under this age also, but they cant´t run. This type of things lead to some really hilarious situations sometimes, and got the parents really confused others .
Unafortunately, I`ve also experiencie mastering forgivenes as a child and young age, not at your extent, but from many sources, fueled mainly by the envy to me.
From my experiencie (and many others), forgiveness is misundestood. If someone has damaged you, the best thing tou can do is avoid further damage. The only means to do this is break the emotional links, especially the negative ones, and not to try to condone or minimize (or maximize) the facts. This unburies that to a conscious level, making it manageable.

The reason of this post is to show you a demanding experiencie of someone with no more options that master the forgiveness. Is a long text, but the first paragraph holds the keys. This lady not only bloked his ascendent evolution bus also the needed descendent one of the perpetrator. This isuue (the descending path) is touched in "Darkness over Tibet", from Theodor Illion.

Melissa experiencie

Like Melissa, I´ve also a faint memory of a "family reunion" on other plane at age 15, amidst attacks from several fronts, in an sharp altered state of counciessness, whith people to that my "eartly version" looked like "roman gods" .

Hope It helps.

Caso.

 

[Nienna]

I'm heartened to see how forgiving you are to Anka. Seems to me you're actually damn good at it, and that's quite the beautiful lesson.

I agree with Renaissance, Trobar. The thing is, is that anka did not think before acting. There could be someone else that this happens with who will not be so forgiving. I think that the best thing that could happen in this situation is if anka has learned some valuable lessons. Those are to honor other people's privacy, to think before acting and, for him since he owns an NO computer, to be a professional and act professionally when engaged with others. Also, maybe he should look at why he acted the way he did.

 

[Trobar]

Hi Trobar, I've attached an article on forgiveness in regards to sexual abuse that I found helpful - well some of it. It's from The Journal of Psychology and Theology. It breaks forgiveness down into three types - judicial, psychological and relational. It talks about how pressuring victims into forgiveness can actually be harmful to the victims, there are probably times where forgiveness can be STS. It could be, and I'm open to being mistaken, that the pressure that you're placing on yourself to forgive is the root of your illness - and that's what your body is screaming 'no' to.

One of the statements it makes that I don't agree with is it suggests praying for the perpetrator/s and we've learned here that is generally not a good idea if the perpetrator/s haven't asked for that. It also mentions having an inner desire for the perpetrator/s healing - but even that could be STS if that's not what the perpetrator is asking for.

On the subject of relational forgiveness it basically states that forgiveness is a two way street - it's dependent on the perpetrator/s accepting and admitting that they have caused harm, taking full responsibility for it and committing to change - but even then they don't earn forgiveness until they can fully demonstrate that change for a long period of time and it doesn't mean that the victim has to re-enter any kind of relationship with them. I don't think too many abusers would authentically take those steps.

On the subject of psychological forgiveness it talks about letting go of any need of personal revenge or hatred, but that it shouldn't be pressured until the victim has developed or regained self respect because hatred and anger or rage can be a proper response to abuse. Forgiveness doesn't mean that the perpetrator/s escape retribution, just that we personally lose any personal investment in that happening.

In any case, maybe taking it a bit easier on yourself as far as forgiveness goes for now will be helpful and concentrate on the sorts of things that can help you strengthen self respect as well as processing anger as others have said.

Not an easy journey for sure, but a worthwhile one.

Hello Jones,
Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it. Thank you for sharing the article on Forgiveness.

 

[Trobar]

Thank you Trobar or your courage - your great courage - in starting to share what you have lived through and are still living the ghost of.

There is not a great deal of comfort I am equipped to offer you but maybe a suggested perspective.

The only person I suggest you ever need to forgive is yourself. You do not need to start with forgiving those who have willfully done you such great harm. This 'give freely of forgiveness to others' / 'turn the other cheek' mantra of our culture is lethal to my mind as a first insisted upon step to healing. You do not need to forgive the unforgivable - your righteous anger is a natural, healthy and absolutely necessary stage that deserves support and respect/honoring. You have great reason to be angry - that is a sign of your fighting for your god given right to be, to be whole and to not be so harmed by those who abused their 'power' over you, especially when so young and so vulnerable when you had no say in the matter.

Rather I suggest consider working towards using your anger to explore and come to understanding of what form of creatures could be and act so depraved when they should have been so loving and caring. We do not need to forgive the vampire who drains our blood, but we can strive - through knowledge input - to understand why the vampire exists, how it is made, how it differs from us and why it behaves the way it does - and how therefore we come to be in relation to it. This brings greater capacity to comprehend the seemingly incomprehensible. It in no way makes it right, or lesser, but it can help us to see better how and why this happened. But this understanding does not have to lead to any form of forgiveness - far from it - it may never come or be necessary - this is something we must only freely chose to come to when and if we are fully ready, and then only if it truly helps us to overcome the teeth marks they have sunk venomously into us. And if it never comes, so be it. Such behavior does not warrant forgiveness.

However that knowledge and comprehension may lead us to the most vital forgiveness - that of forgiving ourselves. This is the only and essential journey when facing abuse. Because the abused victim quite often internalizes the experience as being due to some fault or cause of their own (I wasn't worth loving, I didn't fight back hard enough, I allowed this to happen, why didn't I resist more? What's wrong with me that I brought this down upon myself? etc). This can be the hidden shadow side of the anger turned in upon self.

It is important I think to powerfully and unequivocally acknowledge that you were utterly blameless - you did not deserve or bring these terrible abuses upon yourself. You were given no choice in the matter - and that forgiving the child who succumbed to these intolerable pressures and experiences is a pivotal possible turn in the path that is in your power to walk, step by faltering step and in your own good time. I say again, that that child was and still is blameless. That child was harmed through no fault of its own. That child deserves your love and your forgiveness and your compassion as it does mine and all of us here. And that child is rightly enraged about what it went through. Only if and when this makes any sense and starts to process will you then perhaps begin to come through this. But as for your abusers, no matter what they could and should have been and meant to you - the hardest part is to let them go. To cast them off from you as being not of you but rather done unto you. They are not you and you are not them. You are a free child of a universe that loves you as well as makes them - and accepting that paradox as being equally valid but in some way separate parts of our complex reality might help you to accept the terrible lesson you have been through and begin to heel yourself.

Easily said. Harder done. My heart goes out to you. All I can offer you is the thought that others here are with you, will try to stand alongside you and offer support. But only you can choose which journey you want and feel able to make, and how and when you are ready to attempt it; no one should tell you that but you.

Hello Michael B-C,
I'm working on forgiving myself. I was particularly struck by your comment "you do not need to forgive the unforgivable". It never occurred to me that anything is unforgivable.

My perspective on these matters has changed in the last 20 years. I think that STS behavior that is all about cruelty can be the manifestation of profound ignorance. Or . . . it can be a manifestation of what I will refer to as an unflinching belief that the behavior is justifiable. Or . . . it is frequently a manifestation of mental illness, and then there is the probability that it is the behavior of an organic portal.

I think of the young people who are recruited and persuaded to join the armed forces. These people are trained to become murderers. Needless to write that they are brainwashed to believe that they are being trained to protect the population of the country they serve. They are not taught the truth that they are being trained to murder. Then . . . many of them suffer PTSD and require therapy so that perhaps they can transition back into what should be a civilized society. Some of them return from war and continue to murder.

So . . . my question to myself is: Is it possible that these acts of murder hold some value in that this might contribute to the evolution of their souls? I always end up thinking that some of these people know more about murder than the rest of us can even imagine. I'm referring to 'knowledge'. Knowledge always holds value. Even when the knowledge is that their choices and their behavior is beyond horrible. I think that perhaps some of them will not continue to murder in any location they manifest within. Because . . . they are experts in the unspeakable horror they generated with their choice to murder. This is a very extreme example of my thinking and when I apply this thinking to my own life, I question whether all these variations of "unforgivable" acts should be judged by us as "unforgivable". When I think of the acts of cruelty that I have suffered, I initially think of these people as souls. I give them the benefit of the doubt. I do not think of the material manifestation. . If any of them were/are organic portals, then we are looking at a dead end street. However, if they are indeed souled physical manifestations, then their horrific choices presents an opportunity to learn and to improve. What a horrible way to learn? YES! A very very horrible way to learn. I don't know who is souled and who is not. However, my thoughts and my feelings within this 'now' is that there is no deadline to figure it all out. Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it.

 

[Trobar]

Although I don't know you, I can't help but care about your plight, and I would like to hazard a guess that what you are suffering from now is PTSD. I say this having endured 16 years of incest and child abuse myself...followed by 30 years of therapy and reading dozens of books pertaining to psychology, how the brain works, and the effects of trauma.

My take on PTSD:
Post - After things are (mostly) over
Traumatic - Acute and/or chronic shocks
Stress - The tremendous effort it takes to survive the above.
Disorder - I don't think of PTSD as a disorder. PTSD is a perfectly natural and orderly progression of internal events that follows the cessation of a long period of extreme stress.

What's going on when a person is suffering from PTSD:
As an abused child, a person's world narrows to focus only on survival. Terror, hyper-vigilance, and holding oneself in constant readiness for degrading and humiliating assault become normal facts of life. When the need to constantly steel oneself for battle is no longer there, the effect can be one of a speeding train suddenly running out of tracks at the edge of a precipice. The situation is almost as difficult to deal with as abuse: Who am I, now that I do not have adults screaming that I am _________ (insert cruel epithet of the day)? What the heck do I do with myself now that everything I've known and had to push against for so long has gone?

People naturally gravitate toward the known and familiar, which is why many abuse survivors immediately jump into abusive marriages or gangs once they are free - or in order to get free - of the original abusers. Often they get seriously ill and allow the allopathic medical establishment to apply its frequently barbaric methods that are so similar to abuse. We conjure up new situations that repeat what we've just gone through because it's all we know. Even our minds get in on the act and bring up memories that cause us to revisit the way we once were. Or worse yet, the memories don't reach our conscious minds, but their ghosts do, in the form of a smell, a hated word or phrase, or a face, and then we go back into survivor mode and overreact to something in the present.

How do you deal with a life that does not offer such extreme stress? It can seem so dull and boring that you can't stand it. It is like a death, the death of a way of life you are used to, and eminently suited to dealing with, since you have survived it. The effects of grief are legion. People call them 'stages'. The first is disbelief: It can't be over! Then anger, the first step toward acceptance of the situation, a sort of 'who moved my cheese?' anger, a feeling that things are out of control. When you've been used to expending an enormous amount of energy trying to survive, anger is also a natural vent for the energy you no longer need to use.

For what it's worth, in my opinion it is not yet time for you to forgive those who abused you. It is time for you to end the abuse you are continuing to heap on yourself. Abuse is all that the terrified, pre-verbal child inside you knows. Circumstances have ingrained terror in you as the primary way to deal with the world. What other way could there be? Your task is to find out.

How? I can tell you what worked for me. What works for you may be different. Things to look for when changing your inner landscape are things that will satisfy basic needs, such as the need to be loved and the need to feel safe. Whatever you try should appeal to you on an emotional, not necessarily an intellectual, level. Remember the pre-verbal child inside.

I immersed myself in flowers. I would spend hours examining the perfection of rose petals and how a rose bush spends the entire summer producing dozens of mostly perfect rosebuds. Then I realized that the bush doesn't care whether the buds are perfect. It sends nutrients even to the damaged or deformed ones, and in the end they produce rosehips just like the perfect ones. I thought that perhaps there is also hope for me. For the winter, I would send away for plant and bulb catalogues and look at the pictures before bed. I often dreamed of peacefully walking in gardens and fields of wildflowers. It cut down considerably on the nightmares.

It may help to move away. Different scenery can produce different landscapes in the brain. I took an opportunity to move to a different country. Yes, to some extent it will follow you, but it's easier to spot the patterns in your own thinking when you're removed from the original situation. Step away from the past as much as you can so you can investigate other ways of being. A wound will never heal when it is constantly being torn open again and again.

A therapist once asked me what I would do to comfort my small daughter if she had suffered an upset. The therapist suggested I give myself the same caring and sympathy I would give to her. Sometimes it can be helpful to project love onto another being so you can see it in action and experience it vicariously. This seems weirdly circular, but I'm sure I was raising myself while I was raising my children.

I feel in my heart, though, that it is not by accident that some people suffer horrendous abuse. I was talking on the phone to my sister one day, and a memory came back to me of myself when I was about 4 years old. I remembered being full of energy and always running around and getting into things, a reckless, noisy, holy terror! I was largely heedless of other people and just wanted to explore the world. It was a view of myself I'd long forgotten and had long since ceased to be. Some time later, I found myself wondering about the person I might have been if I had not been crushed by abuse. It occurred to me that I might never have developed empathy and concern for other people - or considerable strength - if I had gone on my merry way and lived a 'normal' life. It may well be that, used properly, suffering abuse can be a tool for setting oneself on the path to STO.

I don't know if any of this will help you, but I could not hear of your suffering and say nothing if I could offer you any hope.

Hugs!

Hello Cassandane,
I visited a psychologist for several years and it was very helpful. He explained that he was required to document a diagnosis whenever he submitted a claim to my health insurance. The diagnosis was PTSD. He also explained about what happens when an individual suffers 'trauma' and he also explained the clinical definition of the word syndrome. What was important to me was knowing that my individual response to the abuse was common, natural and understandable. He reminded me frequently that I was not an object that was broken. He frequently reminded me that I was a dynamic human being with the intelligence to understand the abuse and to heal from the abuse. The abuse has served me well. What? !!! How can that be? !!!

It has taken what feels like a very very long time to understand this. I have indescribable compassion and empathy for others who have suffered abuse. You . . . understand this and you share it as you have done within your post. I thank you for sharing your lovely . . . loving post.

 

[Trobar]

I’m really sorry to hear about what you have been through, @Trobar Something that I’ve learned from my personal experiences is that sometimes guilt, shame & self-loathing is worse than feelings of anger and resentment towards those that wronged you. Like others have mentioned before, sometimes, the person you really need to forgive is yourself. You were not to blame.

I’m not sure if you have read Laura’s Wave series of books- this part came to mind from Ch 15, relating a cathartic release that Laura had during a breathing/meditation session one night:

Hello Arwenn: Thank you for your post. I really do appreciate it. I am working on forgiving myself. I have read all of Laura's books and most of the material on the recommended reading list. I think it is a good idea to share that when I read material I usually think I understand what I am reading, and then . . . 10 years later I realize I didn't understand it at all! LOL! This is particularly so when it comes to Laura's work. Thanks again!

 

[Menna]

I have been seriously ill for the last two years. I know that the root cause of my illness is the fact that I am
"stuck" in what we perceive to be the past. My history includes incest as a child, fanatical abusive cult members for parents and marriage to an abusive sociopath. I have thus far not succeeded in forgiving these people and I am certain this is the major obstacle that hinders my recovery. Learning to forgive is a profoundly challenging and valuable lesson for me.

I do not wish to revisit the sordid details of my past experiences. This is very painful and I have already addressed this in therapy with a psychologist.
I am posting because perhaps some of you that read this post have struggled with this lesson. Intellectually . . . I am able to understand that STS will always include those that abuse others. Emotionally . . . I still feel so much anger that I have failed to forgive them. I do want to forgive and I want to forgive while I am still here.

I would value and appreciate your input on this subject.

If I may the marriage to a sociopath was inevitable when taking into consideration your childhood experiences and parents. You were attracted to the sociopath becuase thats what your being was familiar with at that time.

I believe a big part of forgiving others is forgiving yourself. As a child to be tramatized it is something that is out of your control and the ingrained trauma stays with you because of the unfortunate makeup of our human body. For example I was tramatized at around 11 years old and I surpressed this trauma in my body and didn;t remember this traumatic event until I was 28. This trauma impacted my life subconciously for 17 years. There was no other way for your paretns to act that was in their program. Unfortunitaly you were born into it without any say or choice but now you have a choice. First choice is to forgive yourself and UNDERSTAND THEM. Gain knowledge from this and heal your emotions. I don't think its about forgiving others its about learning and moving forward in the best way for you.

You will always have these memories but its how these memories interact with your being that matters. EE breathing that is here on the forum can help heal your emotions and then only after you see clear you can learn and see those tramatic people for who they are and create a life for yourself where those type of people are not in it....You don't have to forgive them its not black and white its not I either forgive or I don't forgive.

To use them as knowledge as moving toward a life that you wan't I would put on priority list ahead of forgiving and maybe oneday after you have climbed that huge moutain you can look back down at them and you will have a different intellectual/emotional oppinion of them. You may even feel sorry for them...who knows. Doing intese work for a long time changes your persepctive as you are no longer the same when you come out on the other end.

I say get busy working toward your goals in and effort to understand yourself and heal yourself and create your reality than after that is done ask yourself do I forgive them.

 

[Trobar]

Hi.
This type of things involving childs concern me and make sad at great extent.
I've an innate connection whith them. Dozens of times, totally extrangers from 4 years ran from their parents to me on the street before their astonished ( and sometimes embarrased) parents. I've many events under this age also, but they cant´t run. This type of things lead to some really hilarious situations sometimes, and got the parents really confused others .
Unafortunately, I`ve also experiencie mastering forgivenes as a child and young age, not at your extent, but from many sources, fueled mainly by the envy to me.
From my experiencie (and many others), forgiveness is misundestood. If someone has damaged you, the best thing tou can do is avoid further damage. The only means to do this is break the emotional links, especially the negative ones, and not to try to condone or minimize (or maximize) the facts. This unburies that to a conscious level, making it manageable.

The reason of this post is to show you a demanding experiencie of someone with no more options that master the forgiveness. Is a long text, but the first paragraph holds the keys. This lady not only bloked his ascendent evolution bus also the needed descendent one of the perpetrator. This isuue (the descending path) is touched in "Darkness over Tibet", from Theodor Illion.

Melissa experiencie

Like Melissa, I´ve also a faint memory of a "family reunion" on other plane at age 15, amidst attacks from several fronts, in an sharp altered state of counciessness, whith people to that my "eartly version" looked like "roman gods" .

Hope It helps.

Caso.

Hello altomaltes, WOW! I am very grateful that you shared the "Melissa experience". It might as well have been myself writing a lot of it! I did have difficulty reading it. I had to pause again and again before I could continue reading it. There is so much material available on abuse. For the most part, I have avoided reading it as it always felt like I was revisiting the abuse and I simply could not manage the emotional pain of it all. The fact that I was able to read the "Melissa experience" is a good sign. I am a tiny bit wiser now and a whole lot stronger now. Thank you!

 

[Trobar]

I agree with Renaissance, Trobar. The thing is, is that anka did not think before acting. There could be someone else that this happens with who will not be so forgiving. I think that the best thing that could happen in this situation is if anka has learned some valuable lessons. Those are to honor other people's privacy, to think before acting and, for him since he owns an NO computer, to be a professional and act professionally when engaged with others. Also, maybe he should look at why he acted the way he did.

Hello Nienna,
You wrote "I think that the best thing that could happen in this situation is if anka has learned some valuable lessons.". Learning valuable lessons is ALWAYS a good thing. I think the best thing that could happen in this situation is if any of us reading these posts are able to learn. Thank you for expressing your views.