The horrific situation / the place of "pleasure"

[foofighter]

Re: The horrific situation

So with all this crap going on, both in the big and the small, what is there to be happy about? To be honest, not much I feel. Little things, mostly. We had karaoke yesterday, and that was good for the moment, but it is only a temporary getaway really. Reality is still there, in various shades of black. I'm feeling as pessimistic as you right now.

I wish you all the best, foofighter, in your child custody battle. What a horrible situation....

Thanks. We filed our response today, and it actually feels really good, although we are at the same time very worried about the childrens situation. The psycho has managed to shoot himself in the foot in so many ways it is unbelievable, to the point where he might end up in jail. Just now we even found written letters from himself where he explains his sick inner fantasies, kind of like Einhorns diary as it is in Lauras new book "Almost Human". Bizarre.

Speaking of what makes me happy btw, before the children were taken, what was truly happy moments was when I could see the kids change and grow out of their previous way of being (lying, crying, making excuses, bullying each other), and started being more responsible, calm, caring, and respectful of one another. That made me really happy to see. Maybe G was right that the only pure emotions are those for another.

 

[Marcus-Aurelius]

Re: The horrific situation

...this profound certitude that future could be better if I acquire WILL to make it as I want it to be....

I don't quite understand what you mean here. How, exactly, do you want the world "to be", and how will the acquisition of "will" make the future "better"...?

I was rather talking of my own future than of the world one, have missed the "my". I personnally think that to be controlled by what is around me, as I currently am, is not what I have been sent here for. Freeing myself from these influences, that is acquiring will, should make my future better or so I think. I think my future will be better as through will and knowledge gained to acquire it, I will be able to ACT when and where needed, participating constructively to the creation. This is my feeling.
Thanks to point this out, as one with a more strenghtened will may also want to impose it on others.

 

[PepperFritz]

I personnally think that to be controlled by what is around me, as I currently am, is not what I have been sent here for. Freeing myself from these influences, that is acquiring will, should make my future better or so I think. I think my future will be better as through will and knowledge gained to acquire it, I will be able to ACT when and where needed, participating constructively to the creation. This is my feeling.

I understand what you're saying. I just want to add that it is even more important to recognize that we are "controlled" by our own mechanical responses to the influences around us, and that the first step in "freeing" ourselves is becoming knowledgable about our own "machine", identifying all of our contradictory and opposing Little I's so that the real "I" can begin to emerge. After all, how can we even KNOW what kind of future we want, how can we even KNOW what our "will" is, if we do not know who "I" is? And how can we even begin to see OBJECTIVELY the influences around us, if we are not able to see OURSELVES objectively? In that respect, the first order of the day is learning to see ourselves, others, and the world around us from the perspective of OBJECTIVITY, rather through the distorting prism of our own SUBJECTIVITY -- i.e., our emotional issues, programs, mechanical behaviour, buffers, sacred cows, and wishful thinking, etc.

:)

 

[Psalehesost]

Re: The horrific situation

I'd like to ask a question though, does anyone experience joy and terror at the same time?
I've been feeling that, as well as a calmness and alertness. Doesn't always last that long but its duration seems to be getting longer.
Also, there seems to be a sort of pleasure (and I'm not sure that word quite fits exactly) in 'seeing' the terror of it all. A bitter joyfulness with observing perhaps?

There is a feeling that sometimes occurs - it is not "colorful", but it is "bright", and when present, all is taken in good humor - with a tinge of amusement, though not of exactly the same kind as is "humor", being finer (in the sense of fine vs coarse impressions and substances).

It reminds me of Castaneda's "don Juan" speaking of Warriors being able to face the unexpected because they are "filled with awe".

I think it is a form of "higher emotion" sometimes coming through - but not often, in my case. Still, sometimes it does happen (usually in the rarer occasions when my emotions "open up" somewhat while I am unusually "conscious" and the predator's mind is unusually calm and inert). It is, I think, the emotion that would make one perfectly able always to "enjoy" a petty tyrant - and the state of the world - if only it lasted.

OSIT, as for all of the above.

 

[ana]

Re: The horrific situation

I would even venture to suggest that we have a responsibility to seek out and enjoy at least one of the following, at least once a day:

- a good belly laugh
- the pleasure of the the sun and a breeze on your face
- appreciation and pleasure at the sight and scent of a beautiful flower
- the wonder of a spectacular sunrise/sunset and/or beautiful natural scenery
- the joy of wonderful music (preferably while dancing)
- the comfort and pleasure of hugging and/or petting a loved one (whether human or animal)
- the excitement of learning/discovering something new
- the satisfaction of creating something, or at a job well done
- the comfort and pleasure of a good meal prepared with loving hands
- etc etc

Count on me

 

[Psalehesost]

Re: The horrific situation

I would even venture to suggest that we have a responsibility to seek out and enjoy at least one of the following, at least once a day:

- a good belly laugh
- the pleasure of the the sun and a breeze on your face
- appreciation and pleasure at the sight and scent of a beautiful flower
- the wonder of a spectacular sunrise/sunset and/or beautiful natural scenery
- the joy of wonderful music (preferably while dancing)
- the comfort and pleasure of hugging and/or petting a loved one (whether human or animal)
- the excitement of learning/discovering something new
- the satisfaction of creating something, or at a job well done
- the comfort and pleasure of a good meal prepared with loving hands
- etc etc

Knowledge (#7) and creativity (#8) are a given to strive for, and a necessity for progress as far as I know. Laugher (#1) has also been described (by Gurdjieff) as having the positive effect of eliminating emotional toxins that would otherwise build up. But as for several of the others, I do not think they can compare, amounting - OSIT - to nothing more than pleasure-seeking (and confluence with same). Perhaps as a substitute for "higher emotions" a small amount of such may in some cases be needed to help keep people going (in the case where "unconflicted neutrality" doesn't do the job), but ideally, is it not something to be eliminated? Or am I missing some distinction?

 

[PepperFritz]

...as for several of the others, I do not think they can compare, amounting - OSIT - to nothing more than pleasure-seeking.... ideally, is it not something to be eliminated?

In my understanding, there is nothing inherently "wrong" with seeking and experiencing "pleasure". As in all things, balance and context is all. Remember: The Law of Three dictates that there is right and there is wrong and then there is the specific situation that determines which is which. The degree of conscious, objective awareness that we apply to our pursuits and experiences would seem to be key. Gurdjieff specifically spoke against "mechanical pleasures" ("Mechanical pleasures destroy you, you are lost in them"), which seems to be on the same level as "mechanical suffering". (“A Man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering”.) He also spoke against "unearned pleasure", and in support of "objective pleasure".

Knowledge (#7) and creativity (#8) are a given to strive for, and a necessity for progress as far as I know. Laugher (#1) has also been described (by Gurdjieff) as having the positive effect of eliminating emotional toxins that would otherwise build up. But as for several of the others, I do not think they can compare....

If one is operating under the assumption that any "pleasure" that does not have a specific "purpose" is somehow detrimental to the Work and/or becoming an STO candidate, then I can certainly see how one's efforts in that area could lead to a rather bleak and depressing outlook. OSIT.

The above reflects my own current understanding of Gurdjieff's teaching, which could be skewed. Hopefully, if that is the case, others will present a more accurate perspective....

 

[Aaron r]

Re: The horrific situation

Hi, I think there is a C's quote somewhere about not greiving for bursting the illusionary bubble of our 3d reality but see the balance in creation.

 

[Bar Kochba]

Re: The horrific situation

Since I've actually started making observable progress with the work, 90% of my stress has disapated. I have accepted the universe as is, and have faith that all is as it should be in my life. I take tremendous pleasure in raising my children and learning from them. The world is chaotic and falling apart around me but I'm still here, providing for my family and giving them a comfortable life. I take pleasure in knowing they are happy. I am very fortunate.

 

[ana]

Re: The horrific situation

...as for several of the others, I do not think they can compare, amounting - OSIT - to nothing more than pleasure-seeking.... ideally, is it not something to be eliminated?

In my understanding, there is nothing inherently "wrong" with seeking and experiencing "pleasure". As in all things, balance and context is all. Remember: The Law of Three dictates that there is right and there is wrong and then there is the specific situation that determines which is which. The degree of conscious, objective awareness that we apply to our pursuits and experiences would seem to be key. Gurdjieff specifically spoke against "mechanical pleasures" ("Mechanical pleasures destroy you, you are lost in them"), which seems to be on the same level as "mechanical suffering". (“A Man will renounce any pleasure you like but he will not give up his suffering”.) He also spoke against "unearned pleasure", and in support of "objective pleasure".

Knowledge (#7) and creativity (#8) are a given to strive for, and a necessity for progress as far as I know. Laugher (#1) has also been described (by Gurdjieff) as having the positive effect of eliminating emotional toxins that would otherwise build up. But as for several of the others, I do not think they can compare....

If one is operating under the assumption that any "pleasure" that does not have a specific "purpose" is somehow detrimental to the Work and/or becoming an STO candidate, then I can certainly see how one's efforts in that area could lead to a rather bleak and depressing outlook. OSIT.

The above reflects my own current understanding of Gurdjieff's teaching, which could be skewed. Hopefully, if that is the case, others will present a more accurate perspective....

I do agree, Law of three will give us the answer, is the key.

And on having fun and being positive here there are some Cass transcripts:

941205
Q: (L) Okay, is this wave that is coming our direction going to
give us an experience that is going to change our assumptions?
A: Catch 22: One half is that you have to change your
assumptions in order to experience the wave in a positive
way.

941210
Q: (L) I would like to know if there is anything T*** G***
could do to enhance his recovery from cancer?
A: PMA. Positive Mental Attitude.


970111
(L) Then, I had an idea that when we think hard, meditate and
make conscious choice, then more universe is created along
this path, than along the other. I've said it... so that you're
balancing the good universe choice creations; making more of
them, than there are of the mindless, thoughtless, just choosing
because you don't know any better... (T) Well, isn't that what
the lizards are doing? (L) Yes, it is... (T) They're manipulating
it to make negative. But, they can never make more than there
is, more negative than positive, because the universe is
constantly seeking balance. So, every place they make a
negative, there's some place else that becomes a positive.
You can never make more. You can try. A: True.


980314
A: My dear, all of these maladies are correctable and you are
close to the heart of an enormous and expanding knowledge
base that will prolong your current 3rd density existence if
only you will allow the lessons to "click" into place.
Networking with those in your presence now has already
proven to be an explosively positive and expansive experience
for you. It is potentially beneficial to millions who will be
contacted through networks that are yet to be realized. So,
trust... watch... look... listen... and learn... Grow and expand,
evolve and transform and rejoice with the quadrillion times
quadrillions to benefit from this sharing!!!

020223
Q: (V) Well that's cool.
A: Keep in mind that the 4th density STO perspective
has a tendency to exclude certain factors by virtue of
choice of realm frequency. This means that the lesson
profile of 4th density STO is to enhance the energy by
association in networks that do not include ongoing
contact with STS, and so their perspective is on the
positive STO experience.

960109
A: You are doing well in your probing of the knowledge
within on this issue, we suggest continuance, after all, learning
is fun!

941124
A: Absolutely don't let others distract you. You have suffered
many attempts at distraction away from truth. Now follow
some proclamations: Pause. All there is is lessons. This is one
infinite school. There is no other reason for anything to exist.
Even inanimate matter learns it is all an "Illusion." Each
individual possesses all of creation within their minds. Now,
contemplate for a moment. Each soul is all powerful and can
create or destroy all existence if know how. You and us and
all others are interconnected by our mutual possession of all
there is. You may create alternative universes if you wish and
dwell within. You are all a duplicate of the universe within
which you dwell. Your mind represents all that exists. It is
"fun" to see how much you can access.

941126
Q: (L) Now for the questions...
A: Who am I Laura? You are slipping
Q: (L) Well, you told me last time that I didn't have to ask
every time. Okay, who do we have with us tonight?
A: Fun. Q: (L) Your name is fun?
A: Silly.
Q: (T) We're being silly or we're just going to have a fun silly
evening?
A: Laura needs to lighten up a bit.

950114
Q: (T) Are there dudes and dudesses up there?
A: Yes, cool dudes and dudesses! [laughter]
Q: (L) Now, come on, stop it, I am trying to get a question in
here!
A: Stop what?
Q: (L) Stop fooling around, I want to get these questions
done.
A: But we are having fun, is there anything wrong with that?

950422
Q: (L) Okay, there was conscious communion between
humans and other powers in the building of this pit. What
group of humans was this?
A: It's fun learn
950708
A: Isn't this fun?!

950916
Q: (RC) Will there be another war in heaven between the
angels?
A: Assumptions are fun to deal with.


960127
Q: (L) How do you spend your 'time?'
A: Teaching, sharing, assisting.
Q: (L) What do you do for fun?
A: That is fun!

960329
A: Learning is fun!
960629
Q: (L) I just want to make sure that I am doing the most I can
do. I don't want to have to come back to 3rd density. If I can
accelerate things a little...
A: You cannot, so just enjoy the ride. Learning is fun!

961130
A: Not likely, and what would be the benefit? Learning is
necessary for progress of soul. Remember, we are not here to
lead by the hand. We will help, but some answers are for you
to decipher, and you have been extraordinarily good at this,
my Arkadiusz, since very early childhood. This is how you are
building your power center. All there is -- is lessons and
learning is fun. More fun even than teaching.

980815
A: See for yourself. Remember, learning is fun and energizes. 990619
A: No we are not. We are posing a question in order to
stimulate intellectual debate and inquiry. Learning is fun, after
all!

000722
A: You will know soon enough. As we have said before:
learning is fun!

As I see it, experience the joy of being without reason and expectations has nothing to do with not to do the job, one can also have real fun working, learning, growing, sharing, and having new experiences each moment.
Maybe one has to ask himself am I able to enjoy learning?

 

[PepperFritz]

Maybe one has to ask himself am I able to enjoy learning?

Well said. I know for myself, without the fun and pleasure involved in learning to see myself, others, and the world around me more objectively, without laughter, beauty, nature, and my delightful animal companions, I would go stark raving mad; completely bonkers. Does that translate into a "buffer against reality"? I don't think so. I think these are all essential and equally important components of that "reality", which balance the "horror". Simply put, our objective reality is more than just horror, as the C's constantly remind us -- and if we lose that perspective, then we WILL resort to "buffers against reality".... OSIT....

 

[JEEP]

Re: The horrific situation

970111
(L) Then, I had an idea that when we think hard, meditate and
make conscious choice, then more universe is created along
this path, than along the other. I've said it... so that you're
balancing the good universe choice creations; making more of
them, than there are of the mindless, thoughtless, just choosing
because you don't know any better... (T) Well, isn't that what
the lizards are doing? (L) Yes, it is... (T) They're manipulating
it to make negative. But, they can never make more than there
is, more negative than positive, because the universe is
constantly seeking balance. So, every place they make a
negative, there's some place else that becomes a positive.
You can never make more. You can try. A: True.

If this is the case, there must be an enormous conglomeration of positive energy building up of unimaginable proportions! I'd be interested to know how this is being manifested currently or if it's being held in reserve to wash over the earth all at once or something else altogether? Thoughts?

 

[PepperFritz]

If this is the case, there must be an enormous conglomeration of positive energy building up of unimaginable proportions! I'd be interested to know how this is being manifested currently....

Probably in the everyday lives of decent human beings, performing quiet acts of selflessness within their own families and communities, people and activities unlikely to make the STS-controlled evening news, but nonetheless contributing to the STO frequency of the planet. And groups like this one, working diligently and persistently to provide information and Knowledge to others, and to anchor their own signal/conduits in anticipation of the Wave....

 

[Bar Kochba]

Re: The horrific situation

Objective learning IS fun/pleasurable. I lose massive quantities of sleep at night because, after the kids go to bed, I read. Before I know it, it is late and in 3 hours "time" for work! "Time" flies when your having fun.

 

[Dick]

Re: The horrific situation

I know exactly how you feel, but I can't change the way people are programed, if they don't want to change. I would get depressed about the way things are, but then realize the opportunity we have with the knowledge we continue to get from SOTT, and other sources. I pity those who refuse to listen and refuse to learn, because its more comfortable where there at, even if it in denial, and expecting leaders to change the system. I actually feel relieved to learn answers to questions I've been asking for 50 years. So I actually feel graditude.