The Transition

[Don Genaro]

I think things tend to evolve naturally and focuses change over time based on new data, or so you'd hope if the goal is to become as objective as possible.
I viewed things somewhat similar to yourself when I first got here, however I think their can be quite a lot of filtering and projection going on - assumption of what the focus is. So it can be quite hard to tell how much of the evolution is actually in your own understanding.
In retrospect I would think that the 'transition to 4th density' was one of the driving impetus that was relayed in the first C's sessions way back when they started, but more as an aid to getting us to where we are now in our understanding of the 3d world.

Yeah, I thought it might be both but it might indeed have a little bit more to do with my understanding :)

 

[Renaissance]

In that respect, it would serve no one (self or other) to involve yourself in an emergency situation without taking some time to think about it. This could be done as easily as looking for an alternate exit while rushing in to help.

Not too long ago I read The Unthinkable: Who Survives When Disaster Strikes - and Why where the author describes some helpful accounts of survival in disaster type situations. Apparently the survivors of people who are in airplane crashes, building fires and the like are almost always those who look at the exit signs before the disaster happened. One example is given of a man and his wife who survived an airplane crash. When boarding the husband walked up and down the aisle making note of the various exits. When the airplane came down many people survived the initial impact but died soon after because they froze in inaction OR took the longer route to the front. The man's wife was one who froze, but her husband was able to snap her out of it and they went together to the closest exit and were among the few survivors. The man had been in a fire as a young boy and had always made it a practice to look at the exists wherever he went. He had a plan of action which seems to act as an anchor in tumultuous events.

Often life or death hypotheticals are given that bear little resemblance to our everyday lives. Yet I think there is an element of decision making that is magnified by these situations and is also ever useful to develop in our normal everyday lives. Fortunately the cosmos usually allows for time to look at a situation and learn from it. If not, we'll repeat it until we do. And then sometimes we'll only learn a lesson after the fact (or should I say *most times!*). But still, it seems we've only really learned something when we can apply the information we've learned as the situation is happening. We can give back to the Universe in real time. Gurdjieff called this "self remembering". Here's part of the entry for "Self Remembering" from the Cassiopaea Glossary:

This is the 4th Way practice of dividing attention. Normally, one is in a state of constantly shifting identification. Self-remembering can be used to break this automation.

In its basic form, the practice involves being aware of one's inner state, including body, emotions and thinking, while also paying attention to an external object or activity. Self-remembering can bring presence of consciousness into human activity which usually is mechanical and simply happens.

Self-remembering is a prerequisite of self-knowledge and work on the self. Self-remembering is not simply analysis of self based on past data. It is by definition an activity that takes place in the present and concerns the present. It is not for example 'recapitulation,' which concerns the past.

A simple exercise of self-remembering is becoming conscious of one's body, emotion and thought and then alternatingly look at objects, while holding all these present to one's attention. One notices that one very easily falls into identification, where attention is drawn to a single object from its divided state.

Current cognitive science can describe a facet of 'self remembering' in terms of acting in "system2" rather than being driven by "system1". Daniel Kahneman discusses these two modes of thought/behavior in his book Thinking Fast and Slow which is discussed here. Here's his definition:

System1 operates automatically and quickly, with little or no effort and no sense of voluntary control.

System2 allocates attention to the effortfull mental activities that demand it, including complex computations. The operations of System2 are often associated with the subjective experience of agency, choice and concentration.

There's much more in the thread (and the book) that explains the two systems and some important information on how system1 distorts or bypasses system2, but I think this might suffice for a general picture. But it does seem that just acting in 'system 2' isn't enough. It must be a fine tuned to be able to process and face objective reality. We must first develop an accurate knowledge base of ourselves, others and the environment in order to make a real choice and not just react. It's one thing to think how you would act in a certain situation, but it is another to be conscious enough to remember how you want to act and then follow though when presented with the choice.

 

[astrozombie]

Thank you,Renaissance.

That was another well thought out post. I plan to have one of my own someday. :D

Seriously, though. I want to thank everyone who is doing extra leg work to clarify many of these concepts to us newbies.

I do not expect anybody to do for me what I can do for myself but there is an extensive amount of reading to do and I am doing my part in that.

It does not encourage laziness, it promotes interest and stimulates the desire to learn more.

Your patience is much appreciated! :)

 

[Nienna]

If you hear a stranger cry out for help and you instantly take action, with no regard for your own safety, you probably have 4D potential.

If you take the necessary time to evaluate the situation that will increase the chances of both of you getting out alive, you are probably 4D "eligible".

In laymen terms, which I am.

Hmmmm. Why would these criteria make you more of a 4D candidate? You do realize that there is both STO and STS in 4D? So actually walking away from a stranger crying out for help may also make you eligible for 4D, yes?

What makes us 4D candidates, according to the Cs, is our awareness. Learning life's lessons here in 3D.

For me, wondering about what makes me a 4D candidate is a waste of my time. What if I'm an OP? I may never get to 4D regardless of how much I think about what will get me there.

But Working on myself to learn the lessons about myself, and objective reality here in 3D, will make me a better person, regardless of where I end up. These are of more concern to me than how to get to 4D.

fwiw

 

[SadEyes]

I'm not going to lie, I've also given up the idea of going to, or even the existence of 4D. It's no longer relevant. I realized too the selfishness I felt when I hoped for rapture from this world, which (like someone above me said) really makes me no better than Christians who tell all to pray to Jesus for only he can save us. I have a hard enough time now staying present and watching my emotions and thoughts. I still don't even understand what all of the lessons I'm supposed to learn are..at times I'm not even sure what karmic problems are popping up in my life because they need to be fixed. If I get wiped out tomorrow, and don't go to 4D, maybe I'll just try and reincarnate on a planet in some other galaxy...far away from this one.

 

[astrozombie]

Geez Louizzze... :D

I was just throwing my two cents out there in response to someone's question (although from the look of it, I actually owe you peeps some money now).

I know it's impossible to squeeze such an enormously complex, dynamic and multifaceted concept into a single example bit I gave it a shot and failed miserably. I know the confusing way in which I stated it didn't help but it was doomed to fail in any case. Another day, another lesson. :)

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

Thank you very much RedFox and Renaissance and others for your contributions. Obviously I agree that the focus should be on the here and now, to learn as much as we can in this 3rd density, and 4th density will be for the possible graduates. As a hypothesis for the work, is helpful know that human life can be much more than what we experience in this plane.

 

[A.K.]

Thank you all for your input.

I'm not sure if i'm right but i feel that we need to be responsible for our every action be it mentally or physically. And that we must respect the every right of existence that every living being learning their lessons here on 3D realm. I got this idea after observing cats especially the older ones.

Since we need to know simple understandings and clear some karma so as to 'go up' to 4D.What about people that have enlightened? Do they skip 4D and jump straight to 5 or 6D because they've clear all attachments, gain illumination?

 

[Keit]

Since we need to know simple understandings and clear some karma so as to 'go up' to 4D.What about people that have enlightened? Do they skip 4D and jump straight to 5 or 6D because they've clear all attachments, gain illumination?

Hmm...just in case there is a misunderstanding regarding the definition of "density", here it is. Simply put, you can't jump levels unless you've learned the lessons of a specific density, no matter how perhaps"enlightened" you are. To use the analogy from Flatland, it doesn't matter how knowledgeable or advanced a one-dimentional entity is, it still won't be able to fully grasp or understand how it is to be two-dimentional, not to mention three-dimentional until it actually becomes one. It's not only the matter of knowledge and understanding, it's also a matter of "experience", and for that one has to have a different "hardware" (using very limited definitions, of course). Hope it wasn't too confusing. :)

As for being "illuminated", here's what C's said about it:

Q: (T) Now, when those who move into 4th density make the move, will they experience a completeness or merge with all other densities of their being, at that point, even if it is for a short time?
A: For one immeasurably small instant, this is what is meant by "illumination"!
Q: (T) But, for that small instant, because there really is no time, maybe an instant or an aeon, depending on how any individual might measure it, we might experience
oneness with ourselves?
A: It may seem to last "forever."
Q: (L) Is this what is known as the "rapture?"
A: Some have attempted to explain instinctive thought patterns this way.
Q: (L) Is the moving into 4th density and the understanding we have of it, which is the possible transcending or leaving a 3rd density earth, which is under great assault in terms of cataclysmic activity and so forth, and moving to a place where none of that is apparent, is this what is known as the "rapture?"
A: Laura, you are reaching.

A: As we have told you before, if you will be patient just a moment, the universe is merely a school. And, a school is there for all to learn. That is why everything exists.
There is no other reason. Now, if only you understood the true depth of that statement, you would begin to start to see, and experience for yourself, all the levels of density that it is possible to experience, all the dimensions that it is possible to experience, all awareness. When an individual understands that statement to its greatest possible depth, that individual becomes illumined. And, certainly you have heard of that. And, for one moment, which lasts for all eternity, that individual knows absolutely everything that there is to know.
Q: (L) So, you are saying that the path to illumination is knowledge and not love?
A: That is correct.
Q: (L) Is it also correct that emotion can be used to mislead, that is emotions that are twisted and generated strictly from the flesh or false programming?
A: Emotion that limits is an impediment to progress. Emotion is also necessary to make progress in 3rd density. It is natural. When you begin to separate limiting emotions based on assumptions from emotions that open one to unlimited possibilities, that means you are preparing for the next density.
Q: (L) What about Love?
A: What about it?
Q: (L) There are many teachings that are promulgated that Love is the key, the answer. They say that illumination and knowledge and what-not can all be achieved through love.
A: The problem is not the term "love," the problem is the interpretation of the term. Those on third density have a tendency to confuse the issue horribly. After all, they confuse many things as love. When the actual definition of love as you know it is not correct either. It is not necessarily a feeling that one has that can also be interpreted as an emotion, but rather, as we have told you before, the essence of light which is knowledge is love, and this has been corrupted when it is said that love leads to illumination.
Love is Light is Knowledge. Love makes no sense when common definitions are used as they are in your environment. To love you must know. And to know is to have light. And to have light is to love. And to have knowledge is to love.

Q: One thing I do want to understand, since it is involved in all of this, is the idea of the 'Shepherd.' All of the ancient legends and stories and myths lead, ultimately, to something about the 'shepherd,' or the 'Shepherd King.'
A: Shepherd is most likely to be struck by lightning, due to staff, and thus "enlightened," or "illumened!!"

 

[A.K.]

Thanks Keit for bring it to perspective.

I understand that we need to complete certain lessons to graduate to the next density. From my understanding is that we do not need to be enlighten like Buddha, Jesus, Lao Zi or any of the great masters. What my question is that these masters have learned far more lessons that us and they do not ride the wave to go to upper densities unlike us wave riders so do these masters have the possibility to skip 4th density?

Another idea that popped up in my mind is during illumination, we will 'merged' with all our other selves be it an insect, a beast, other 'alien' forms or humans in different era across densities and dimensions. So for example will we be able to sort of shift from 3D consciousness onto other consciousness like those of higher densities? Something like moving up a tunnel and exit at the next higher density. Because we all share the same consciousness to put it loosely thus that 'tunnel' is formed during illumination.

Sorry for causing any confusion. But it's the best i can put it in text form.
Maybe i'm thinking too much & too hard.

 

[webglider]

quote from Keit:

Hmm...just in case there is a misunderstanding regarding the definition of "density", here it is. Simply put, you can't jump levels unless you've learned the lessons of a specific density, no matter how perhaps"enlightened" you are. To use the analogy from Flatland, it doesn't matter how knowledgeable or advanced a one-dimentional entity is, it still won't be able to fully grasp or understand how it is to be two-dimentional, not to mention three-dimentional until it actually becomes one. It's not only the matter of knowledge and understanding, it's also a matter of "experience", and for that one has to have a different "hardware" (using very limited definitions, of course). Hope it wasn't too confusing. :)

Keit, thank you for the analogy to Flatlands; I find it very easy to grasp and quite helpful. I actually don't aspire to 4th density; I'm having quite an adventure right here in 3rd just processing all the information that has presented itself since I found this website. I'm also trying to apply it in a way that is respectful. Ever since I was very little, I always had the desire to help others, but I never had the training as to how to do so effectively and respectfully. Often when I do try to help, I often muck everything up although, I'm getting better the more I practice external consideration. I also don't have the skills that I need, and perhaps I'm also lacking some courage that I wish I had

So I think that's what I need to do, to learn more about this density. I really am grateful that in this life I had a chance to have an education that allowed me access to books and ideas. However, for as long as I remember, I've always wanted to help people but now, upon reflection, a lot of that, though sincere, was mixed up with ego. It's embarrassing to reveal that my hero as a child was Mighty Mouse who was always introduced something like this, "Here he is to save the day, here comes Mighty Mouse on his way." I wanted to be Mighty Mouse. That is, I think, a negative program, but perhaps there may be something positive in it too.

In any case, each time I learn something - and I've learned a lot from SOTT, I'm still at or near the beginning. I love 3D earth; it breaks my heart to watch it unravel right before my eyes. I ache for the land, the people, the animals and all living things. If I do come back here, I hope that I can remember what I've learned in this life and apply it to the next.

 

[Global Warning]

This Poem by Czesław Miłosz is a nice view in my opinion

Yeah I know it and I guess I know you too.

Here's a question I don't see anyone asking; what happens to the children?

You think you are closer to 4 because you are older - but they were born later. :P

 

[r34117y]

This Poem by Czesław Miłosz is a nice view in my opinion

Yeah I know it and I guess I know you too.

Unfortunately this forum doesn't allow PMs, but if you know me, maybe you would like to message me somewhere outside forum? I had this strange notion of being known and I'm sure it's better to know each other, than just in one direction;)

I think I'm going to write a separate thread on my experiences, for now sorry for my private answer, but I couldn't find PM button (or it doesn't exist).

 

[Nienna]

This Poem by Czesław Miłosz is a nice view in my opinion

Yeah I know it and I guess I know you too.

Unfortunately this forum doesn't allow PMs, but if you know me, maybe you would like to message me somewhere outside forum? I had this strange notion of being known and I'm sure it's better to know each other, than just in one direction;)

I think I'm going to write a separate thread on my experiences, for now sorry for my private answer, but I couldn't find PM button (or it doesn't exist).

There is a reason we discourage private messaging. Please read this thread. This is for everyone's protection. Just because people say certain things does not mean that they are trustworthy or are as they appear to be on this forum.

 

[Global Warning]

Unfortunately this forum doesn't allow PMs, but if you know me, maybe you would like to message me somewhere outside forum? I had this strange notion of being known and I'm sure it's better to know each other, than just in one direction;)

I think I'm going to write a separate thread on my experiences, for now sorry for my private answer, but I couldn't find PM button (or it doesn't exist).

I don't have anything to tell you :P other than I've spent enough time with tomatos :P