The Universe: Nemesis, the suns evil twin.

DreamGod

Jedi Master
Windmill knight said:
Ok, so I finished watching now. They suggest that the source of the disturbance in the Oort cloud is Tyche, the hypothesized giant planet, and then they reassure us that Tyche is not large enough to send a rain of comets our way. We'll see.

Now I have a question for any astronomers or physicists out there. According to the theory, the orbit of Nemesis is 26 million years and we still got some 10 million years before it returns. It is estimated to be 1/10th of the size of the sun. The Cs said that Nemesis was 56 percent the mass of the sun. So how would the orbit change if it is indeed around half the sun? Is it possible to rationally speculate on this point?

Here are two numbers, period (28.2 million years) and size (3.4% of sun´s mass).

Session Date: January 30th 2010

Laura, Ark, Ottershrew, Joe, Andromeda, Belibaste, Nomad, Burma Jones, PoB, Alada, Ailén, Scottie, Psyche

Q: (L) [Talking to others in the room with fingers on planchette]

A: More people is good! 5D is watching closely.

Q: (L) And who do we have with us this evening?

A: Timorone Cassiopaea

Q: (L) And why are you so slow this evening?

A: Energy is variable.

Q: (L) Well if the energy is variable, are we going to be able to deal with Ark's questions tonight?

A: Yes. Ark knows the answers, we will help to access them! Pay attention, Ark!!

Q: (Ark) I know the answers, so I don't have to ask, right?

(L) Well, they said they'll help to access them.

(Ark) I see.

(L) So, ask.

(Ark) 1998 [session about] sun's companion. So, I asked the question: how close would it come, and the answer was, "Distance depends upon other factors, such as intersecting orbit of locator of witness". I don't know what that means. Who is the witness?

A: You on Earth. Earth can be on opposite side of sun at time of closest approach.

Q: (Ark) Okay, I am the witness. Now but it says that it depends upon other factors such as intersection. Now, are these factors not determined? I mean, it's not determined where the earth will be at the time of the closest approach?

A: No, due to gravitational factors in outer solar system.

Q: (L) So that suggests that things can speed it up or slow it down?

(Ark) I don't understand because gravitational factors are also deterministic. I mean, are there some gravitational factors that are not known to us? Like what, black holes?

A: Other bodies not known to earth science.

Q: (Joe) Like giant UFOs!

(Ark) Must be so...

A: Dark...

Q: (Ark) Dark?

(Burma Jones) Dark matter?

(Ark) There is no dark matter. Is there dark matter?

A: Yes

Q: (Joe) Now you're in trouble!

(Ark) But, as far as I know, we are able to predict the orbit of the solar system in the galaxy. And the galaxy is pretty much known.

A: There are anomalies that are not explained!

Q: (Ark) Alright. That's progress. I did some calculations...

(L) Well why don't we ask what the anomalies are?

(Ark) Gravitational anomalies.

(L) Well, what do you mean?

(Ark) I mean Pioneer trajectory has anomaly, all kinds of rotating galaxies have anomalies...

(L) But you just said it was all predictable.

(Ark) Oh, it's predictable on a more or less... I mean, they are small anomalies, not big anomalies. I want to ask about my numbers. So, I put numbers. We were asking for these numbers years ago, you were evasive, and you even admitted that you are evasive for a good reason. Nevertheless, I did calculations with what I could - of course garbage in/garbage out as everyone knows. So, I put for the period 26 million years. Is it approximately true?

A: Very close 28.2 million years.

Q: (Ark) Then I had to put another number which was not told to us. I was asking about the mass of this companion star, and I was told that it was "much less than the sun". So, in my calculations, I put half a percent of the mass of the sun. Is it approximately true?

A: 3.4, closer

Q: (Ark) 3 percent?! And not half a percent?? That would mean that when it approaches, it will induce perturbation of the solar system.

A: Indeed!
 

Soluna

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
Windmill knight said:
I don't think that the distance of 1 light year makes any difference, because we don't know for how long the Oort cloud has been disturbed. It's just that they noticed the disturbance when making the infrared survey last year, but that could have been happening for centuries already. Also, what they are saying to calm the audience is that the disturbance is caused by Tyche, the hypothetized giant planet, and they say it's not big enough to launch comets at us. It's much speculation on their part with a good dose of wishful thinking - or intended disinformation.

(bold by me)

If they took the survey last year - given the speed of light, and the distance the cloud is from us, would that not imply what we were 'seeing' was in fact, the cloud one year prior(the way we look at things)? Observation of things so far away seems like tricky business to me, considering the light of what we are seeing took a long time to get here to be observed!
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I've wondered for some time now if the Maunder Minimum was not the first sign of the close approach of a companion star. That began almost 400 years ago.
 

Gawan

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Pashalis said:
Possibility of Being said:
Don Genaro said:
That's something that occurred to me - they probably only need to buy themselves a year or two tops so they just put it a few light years away...

Anyone knows what approx. speed they travel with throughout the space when they get kicked out? I know it depends on a few factors, like their masses, the dwarf's speed, an angle between those bodies and so on, but is there a range that can be assessed roughly?

good question. also I'm wondering if it is possible in such an event that the smallest comet particles arrive first and then it get's bigger and bigger over a time?

Have for example a look in this article from Laura:

From Where I Sit: Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head

Possibility of Being said:
Charlie Prime said:
The Ort Cloud is 1 light year from from earth. Light travels 186,000 miles per second.

Comets travel about 20 miles per second.

It could be a while.

Hi Charlie Prime,
Thanks. It would make a few thousand years, quite a while. So, that's another thing that doesn't make much sense in the whole context.

As for the distance the wave could (hypothetically) also play it's role, since the future is open and when and how something is happening. So that there could be variables in it that are non-linear.
 

Graalsword

Jedi Council Member
Windmill knight said:
I don't think that the distance of 1 light year makes any difference, because we don't know for how long the Oort cloud has been disturbed. It's just that they noticed the disturbance when making the infrared survey last year, but that could have been happening for centuries already.[...]

That´s something I thought too. The disturbance must have been being produced since more time ago, while Nemesis began to get close. Therefore some of the comets we see could be part of that shooting from the Oort Cloud.
 

Charlie Prime

The Force is Strong With This One
Thanks for the welcome guys. If you've not seen these movies Another Earth and Melancholia, you really should. Both feature the approaching planet meme. They are both quite good.

Another Earth: Trailer Link, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1549572/

Melancholia: Trailer Link, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527186/

The interesting thing to me has always been that if a moon or comet hit the other side of the earth, you would have about 8 hours to think about it. I would spend that time having birthday parties for everyone in my family all day long, eating cake and laughing and hugging.
 

Richs

Dagobah Resident
Pashalis said:
Charlie Prime said:
The Ort Cloud is 1 light year from from earth. Light travels 186,000 miles per second.

Comets travel about 20 miles per second.

It could be a while.

assuming this data as pointer (if correct?) this would mean the following:

1 lightyear is the approx dictance of about 9.500.000.000.000 kilometers.

if a comet travels at 20 milles an hour (46.67 km/sec) this would mean the comet travels 168012 km in one hour.

That's true, but it was stated a comet's normal speed is about 20 miles per SECOND, not per HOUR. So, the time to travel to the Earth's vicinity can be a LOT shorter.

now when you divide 9.500.000.000.000 kilometers with 168012 you get = 56543580,22046044 hours (2355982,509185852 days/6454,74 years).

so it would take about 6450 years for a comet from the ourt cloud to reach earth?

Dividing 6450 years by 3600 (60 seconds X 60 minutes = 1 hour) you get: 1.792 years.
 

Cosmos

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Richard S said:
Pashalis said:
Charlie Prime said:
The Ort Cloud is 1 light year from from earth. Light travels 186,000 miles per second.

Comets travel about 20 miles per second.

It could be a while.

assuming this data as pointer (if correct?) this would mean the following:

1 lightyear is the approx dictance of about 9.500.000.000.000 kilometers.

if a comet travels at 20 milles an hour (46.67 km/sec) this would mean the comet travels 168012 km in one hour.

That's true, but it was stated a comet's normal speed is about 20 miles per SECOND, not per HOUR. So, the time to travel to the Earth's vicinity can be a LOT shorter.

now when you divide 9.500.000.000.000 kilometers with 168012 you get = 56543580,22046044 hours (2355982,509185852 days/6454,74 years).

so it would take about 6450 years for a comet from the ourt cloud to reach earth?

Dividing 6450 years by 3600 (60 seconds X 60 minutes = 1 hour) you get: 1.792 years.

actually the "20 miles per hour" in my post is a typo. it should have meant "20 miles per second" (46.67 km/sec).
so I think I calculated it right.

Edit: 46.67 km/sec = 2800,2 km/minute = 168012 km/hour
 

Richs

Dagobah Resident
Pashalis said:
Richard S said:
Pashalis said:
Charlie Prime said:
The Ort Cloud is 1 light year from from earth. Light travels 186,000 miles per second.

Comets travel about 20 miles per second.

It could be a while.

assuming this data as pointer (if correct?) this would mean the following:

1 lightyear is the approx dictance of about 9.500.000.000.000 kilometers.

if a comet travels at 20 milles an hour (46.67 km/sec) this would mean the comet travels 168012 km in one hour.

That's true, but it was stated a comet's normal speed is about 20 miles per SECOND, not per HOUR. So, the time to travel to the Earth's vicinity can be a LOT shorter.

now when you divide 9.500.000.000.000 kilometers with 168012 you get = 56543580,22046044 hours (2355982,509185852 days/6454,74 years).

so it would take about 6450 years for a comet from the ourt cloud to reach earth?

Dividing 6450 years by 3600 (60 seconds X 60 minutes = 1 hour) you get: 1.792 years.

actually the "20 miles per hour" in my post is a typo. it should have meant "20 miles per second" (46.67 km/sec).
so I think I calculated it right.

Edit: 46.67 km/sec = 2800,2 km/minute = 168012 km/hour
OK, that makes more sense.
 

thorbiorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Apart from any twin orbiting on a regular basis, I saw a claim that stars sometimes enter the Oort cloud:

The following from Oort cloud - solar system — Astronoo is not very flowing English, or may be a poor translation, but the point it makes is that apparently the Solar system sometimes gets close to other stars.
Oort cloud
This remote region of the solar system and invisible hosts billions of light bodies frozen to limit the attraction of the Sun. That orbit very fragile, almost stationary, comets most distant from the Sun can be affected by any gravitational force, the stars closest to the solar system. The solar system is subjected during its journey through the galaxy, gravitational influences that can disrupt this balance and cause falls of comets in the heart of the system and therefore to the planets. Astronomers estimate that the stellar gravitational perturbations can be very high because some stars pass "near" the Sun. On average, a star passes within 10 000 astronomical units from the Sun every 36 million years and less than 3000 astronomical units, every 400 million years. Edgar Everhart, American astronomer, found that if a comet enters the solar system with an orbital inclination greater than 20 °, it has an even chance of being ejected out of the solar attraction.
And there was:
Based on an earlier paper (E. Mamajek 2015) that indicated Sholz's star passed very close or into the outer edges of the Oort Cloud, so the Fuentes et al looked at the radiant for 340 Solar System objects with hyperbolic orbits. They further focused on 8 such objects. They posit radiants for these objects should be scattered all round our sky. Some were scattered, some were clumped close to a single radiant. They link that effect to Sholz's start (small red/smaller brown dwarf binary) star entering the Oort Cloud and coming within ~.0.6 of the sun, ~70,000 years ago.
About Sholz's star: Scholz's Star - Wikipedia
On Oort cloud - Wikipedia they say that:
Gliese 710 has the potential to perturb the hypothetical Oort cloud in the outer Solar System, exerting enough force to send showers of comets into the inner Solar System for millions of years, triggering visibility of about ten naked-eye comets per year,[13] and possibly causing an impact event. According to Filip Berski and Piotr Dybczyński, this event will be "the strongest disrupting encounter in the future and history of the Solar System".[14]
Is it possible we have not only Near Earth Object but also Near Solar System Stars, and just like we don't know all the NEOs so perhaps also the NSSS is a field that can grouw.
 

thorbiorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The heading of the thread includes "evil twin" but I prefer "your own little brother" or "companion star" even though I will also use Nemesis.

In this post I use information in a transcript to try and zoom in on where one might look for the companion of the Sun.

In Pierre's book from 2014 Earth Changes and the Human Cosmic Connection there is a chapter about Nemisis, which is one of the names. I then tried to find out what the situation is today, but did not get much new information. In a chapter from the early 2000s the researchers behind Oort Cloud Formation and Dynamics give a review of the different proposals and the reasons. If one looks at the English Wiki and the German Wiki they are almost sure there is no companion to be found, otherwise it would have been found, they argue. (Say those who miss out on a NEO passing between us and the Moon every so often). The Russian Wiki on Nemesis mentions that the orbit of one small planetoid Sedan is very hard to explain without another serious influence. 90377 Sedna - Wikipedia mentions that the orbit of Sedan reaches out to about 937 AU with an orbital period of 11,400 years, while also coming as close as 76 AU. Moving from strict science to the more popular, there is one British author, Andy Llyod who has written extensively about the possibility of a planet X or a dark star, as he calls it and he has also studied ancient traditions, including the more mystical and symbolic.

Having looked at what the current situation appears to be, the next will mainly be from the C's point of view:
A: What we are saying is the sun is a proton and its twin is an electron!
In a later session:
A: Solar system, in concert with “mother star,” is revolving around companion star, a “brown” star.
[...]
A: Less, much less. Distance of closest passage roughly corresponds to the distance of the orbit of Pluto from Sun.
And
Q: (A) I am trying to write down some things about a cosmology, and I have some questions mainly about the coming events. First there was the story of the sun’s companion brown star which is apparently approaching the solar system, and I would like to know, if possible, details of its orbit; that is, how far it is, what is its speed, and when it will be first seen. Can we know it? Orbit: how close will it come?
A: Flat eliptical.
Q: (A) But how close will it come?
A: Distance depends upon other factors, such as intersecting orbit of locator of witness.
Q: (L) What is the closest it could come to earth… (A)Solar system… (L) Yes, but which part of the solar system? We have nine planets… which one? (A) I understand that this brown star will enter the Oort cloud… (L) I think they said it just brushes against it and the gravity disturbs it…
A: Passes through Oort cloud on orbital journey. Already has done this on its way “in.”
Q: (A) You mean it has already entered the Oort cloud?
A: Has passed through.
Q: (A) So, it will not approach…
A: Oort cloud is located on outer perimeter orbital plane at distance of approximately averaged distance of 510,000,000,000 miles.
It seems that if the companion will affect the Oort cloud on its way "in", it would also do so on the way out? Using the above data to get and idea of the Oort cloud, then 1 astronomical unit (AU) corresponds to "1.495978707×10^11 m, or about 150 million kilometres (93 million miles) 510,000,000,000 miles / 93,000,000 miles per AU is equal to 510,000/93 AU which is 5484 AU or about 5500 AU. The Wiki puts the Oort cloud from 2,000 to 200,000 au (0.03 to 3.2 light-years). 5500 AU is above 2000 AU and as an average does not preclude there will be many or smaller objects further out. The area of the Oort cloud at the distance of 5500 AU is only 0.07-0.08 light years out, a distance which light would reach in about 3-4 weeks, while the time out to the distance of Pluto is covered in a few hours.

The orbit of Pluto varies between 30 and 50 astronomical units, that is 30-50 times further away than the average distance between the Sun and the Earth. Assuming the companion gets this close might it also perturb the Kuiper belt? About the Kuiper belt there is Kuiper belt - Wikipedia
The Kuiper belt (/ˈkaɪpər/),[1] occasionally called the Edgeworth–Kuiper belt, is a circumstellar disc in the outer Solar System, extending from the orbit of Neptune (at 30 AU) to approximately 50 AU from the Sun.[2] It is similar to the asteroid belt, but is far larger—20 times as wide and 20 to 200 times as massive.[3][4]
[...]
The Kuiper belt was named after Dutch-American astronomer Gerard Kuiper, though he did not predict its existence. In 1992, Albion was discovered, the first Kuiper belt object (KBO) since Pluto and Charon.[7]Since its discovery, the number of known KBOs has increased to thousands, and more than 100,000 KBOs over 100 km (62 mi) in diameter are thought to exist.[8] The Kuiper belt was initially thought to be the main repository for periodic comets, those with orbits lasting less than 200 years. Studies since the mid-1990s have shown that the belt is dynamically stable and that comets' true place of origin is the scattered disc, a dynamically active zone created by the outward motion of Neptune 4.5 billion years ago;[9] scattered disc objects such as Eris have extremely eccentric orbits that take them as far as 100 AU from the Sun.[nb 1]

In 2010 there was a discussion of the Electric Universe theory including Session 12 December 2010 there was
Q: (L) [...]Anyhow, the conclusion that he draws is…- and he also points out that it seems that Sirius is heading in our direction; we are getting closer to Sirius - so, he theorizes that Sirius is our companion star. Is he correct about that?

A: Not Sol’s companion; but look in that direction for clues to your own little brother.
[...]
Q: (Ark) Is the axis of the Solar System Wobbling?

A: Not enough to make a difference. But the Galaxy is

(Discussion about the Galaxy and Solar System)

Q: (Ark) That means that the companion star is in the ecliptic plane?

A: Yes. Part of the capacitor.
Next is a screen shot from Stellarium where one sees Sirius in the lower part of the picture. The lines are according to the ecliptic. 0 degrees latitude is the straight line just below the star Pollux located in the star sign Gemini. To the left one finds a part of Cancer, to the right one finds Taurus with the eye of the Bull being Aldebaran. Below we find the stars in Orion:
1575642983542.png
The worst time of the year to watch this area of the sky will be when the Sun is located on the ecliptica in the Sign of Gemini which is number three and is standing so near Pollux that we can't see it. This happens astronomically in June-July. To have a chance from the Earth of studying the sky where the C's suggested then looking from August to May would be better. The Earth will be closest to any solar system objects in this section of the sky, when the Sun is located in the opposite star sign of Gemini. This will happen six month from June-July which takes us to December-January when the Sun is in Sagittarius, in the sidereal sense, that means with the sign of Sagittarius behind. If we wish to find "the right area" above Sirius and are looking for Gemini, then the two bright stars Castor and Pollux are easy to find. One could also locate Orion and then look above and to the left. Probably you will not see a companion of the Sun next time you go out. When and if some aid like a telescope would probably be needed, maybe even special equipment, but personally I sense a thrill when looking out and knowing there is something out there we do not yet know, something on the way. If nothing else perhaps you find Sirius. It is a bright star and only about 8.2 light years away. In one session there was:
Q: I also noticed that the word 'Osiris' could also be slightly modified to say 'of Sirius.' Comment, please.

A: Sirius was regarded highly in your "past."

Q: What was the foundation of this regard for Sirius?

A: "From whence cometh, is seen that which knows no limitation."

Q: Could you elaborate on that?

A: Could, but will not.

Q: Why?

A: Because you can!
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
When trying to work out how long it might take for comet materials disturbed from the Oort cloud and Kuiper regions to reach the inner orbits and start affecting us in earnest, one might consider how long it took the Voyager spacecraft to get from Earth out to and beyond Pluto.

They were launched in 1977, and only very recently (like in early November of this year if I'm not mistaken) has Voyager 2 officially left the Solar System. That's about 42 years. -And it was traveling at 54,000km/h. -Which is 15,000 meters per second. For reference, a rifle bullet will travel between around 1000 and 1500 meters per second. So.., the Voyager spacecraft was moving about 10 x faster than a fast rifle bullet. And it took 42 years to reach the limits of the solar system.

So.., how long does it take before inbound comets reach us? It depends on their speed and starting time. How long ago did the C's say Nemesis was bowling through these debris fields? And how fast do comets fly? The rest is just math.

Anybody..?
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Anybody..?
Well, calling all astrophysicists here for a better view, yet take a sungrazing comet like this one:

"It shows the comet zooming toward the sun at nearly 373 miles per second (600 kilometers per second). That's a mind-boggling 1.34 million mph!"

or, 31.68 million mpd., assuming the speed is constant and not accelerated by solar forces - and at what distance from the sun does that happen at being a factor.

Whatever the case, the math on this one seems to be stepped up a notch or two.

 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Okay. Here's some stump math from a non-mathematician. I did a lot of rounding to keep long numbers manageable.

At Solar System scales, things are measured in Astronomical Units (AU). An AU is roughly measured as the average distance from Earth to the Sun.

1 AU in Km = 149,598,000 Km

"The Kuiper Belt is a disk-shaped region past the orbit of Neptune, roughly 4,400,000,000 to 14,900,000,000 km (30 to 100 AU) from the Sun." Special Exhibits

So the Kuiper belt is approximately 4.5 to 15 Billion Km away.

Assuming Nemesis is about the same size as one solar mass, (for the sake of argument), and that since NASA was able to use the Sun to slingshot a spaceship up to aprox 21 Km/second (Voyager 1) around it...

Animation_of_Voyager_1_trajectory.gif
(From Wikipedia) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Animation_of_Voyager_1_trajectory.gif

Let's assume comets disturbed and slungshot by Nemesis will travel at similar speeds. (And yes, that is one huge bellyache of a rough estimation, but at least it gives a starting point for this ignorant layman).

SO.., assuming big rocks incoming at 21 Km/s...

(Which is about .66 Billion Km/Year)

A comet traveling from the nearest edge of the Kuiper belt at 21 Km/s would take about 7 years to reach us. From the furthest edge, (Where Nemesis would first interact) about 23 years.

Those clocks would have started when Nemesis first entered the Kuiper Belt. Whenever that was. Does anybody know?
 
Top Bottom