That was a beautiful video and Dr Derrick Lonsdale is someone whom we can emulate. It's really inspirational that he continued researching and writing well into his 90s.
Thiamine (Vitamin B1) - A common deficiency in disorders of energy metabolism, cardiovascular and nervous system dysfunction
- Thread starter Keyhole
- Start date
Breo
The Living Force
Thank you for making this very inspiring and educating video about Dr. Lonsdale, where we can learn what an exceptional doctor, researcher and human being he has been.
To understand his model of bioenergetics as the essential principle behind health or disease - and the key function of B1 in it, is so empowering. Thank you for all your work, Keyhole!
May Dr. Lonsdale RIP.
Matty F
Jedi
Hi everyone. Some great information in this thread and I feel thiamine would help my son. He has sinus bradycardia which is a slight heart murmur. Also some emotional issues. I’ve purchased some Thiamax 100mg tablets and wanted to start small so opened the tablet and put a small amount in water. Obviously this doesn’t taste nice (even when I added orange).
My son hated the taste and now refuses to have anymore. Does anyone have any tips to make it taste nice? It would be much appreciated. Thanks
My son hated the taste and now refuses to have anymore. Does anyone have any tips to make it taste nice? It would be much appreciated. Thanks
How old is your son? And how much does he weigh?
Purchase some empty gel capsules and then make your own. Alternatively, can try him on a full capsule!
Matty F
Jedi
Hi Keyhole! Firstly just want to thank you for all the great information you’ve given us all.
I think the empty gel capsules are a great idea. My wife has a different outlook to me and doesn’t want to try a whole capsule as she thinks it’s too much. Will look into the empty capsules. Thanks again.
Wow. This is amazing information. More important than the iodine information as a place to start IMO. Thanks @Keyhole !
Taking NAC and glycine away from B1, how long does one wait? Half hour, an hour? Also I just finished the iodine thread. Are you supposed to separate NAC and Glycine from the other cofactors? I've been taking them all of them together, with Iodine after breakfast.
Apologies for being selfish and asking directly instead of going back to look in the iodine thread. Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this information. It's quite fascinating.
Taking NAC and glycine away from B1, how long does one wait? Half hour, an hour? Also I just finished the iodine thread. Are you supposed to separate NAC and Glycine from the other cofactors? I've been taking them all of them together, with Iodine after breakfast.
Apologies for being selfish and asking directly instead of going back to look in the iodine thread. Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this information. It's quite fascinating.
Both are necessary for energy production:
The failure of thyroxine to influence the oxygen consumption of thiamine-deficient mice - PubMed
The failure of thyroxine to influence the oxygen consumption of thiamine-deficient mice
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I've read the entire thread and I haven't seen anyone mentioning the role of vitamin C in activation of thiamine disulfide. Keyhole talked about the importance of glutathione in activation of TTFD, but in this article they say that it is the vitamin C that does the activation and the glutathione converts the spent vitamin C into the active form for another round of activation. I don't know if this also applies to TTFD, but in this case, glutathione had an indirect role, and vitamin C direct:
Thiamine-sparing action of ascorbic acid on some lactobacilli and the rat due to thiamine disulfide activation - PubMed
Thiamine-sparing action of ascorbic acid on some lactobacilli and the rat due to thiamine disulfide activation
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Another interesting connection with thiamine is found with vitamin D:
Vitamin D and phosphorylation of thiamin - PubMed
Vitamin D and phosphorylation of thiamin
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Another thing to add to the pile, taking selenium with the NAC may also help produce glutathione. When I take selenium alone it feels toxic in the doses I was originally using (400mg) but a smaller dose along with NAC seems to make a big difference. You can get them combined in a supplement.
At some point I realized thiamine was becoming ineffective without taking magnesium along with it. Then I started taking it with a magnesium B-complex which worked well. I went through the known cofactors noticing they helped, but then it often seems taking all this stuff results in a vitamin overload of sorts.
The best thing you can do to reduce the need to play vitamin tag is probably to get good sleep and to spend some quality time outdoors.
But then the ability to notice when you need anything for your health is a deep aspect of self-regulation. This requires expanded awareness and self-history. What is better than taking an avalanche of vitamins is to know, from the state of your body and your past history, what vitamins to take and when to rest, move, meditate, etc.
And my own health seems to be dependent on some cursed rubik's cube combination lock of all the above factors. I could devote all my attention to it but then I'm at risk of having an unhealthy preoccupation with health when the point of all this is to be more free from health related concerns.
Not to downplay the usefulness of the information posted above, it fills in some blanks. But I am thinking about the "operational efficiency" of supplementation and how to create a feedback loop that will better keep all these factors in check.
At some point I realized thiamine was becoming ineffective without taking magnesium along with it. Then I started taking it with a magnesium B-complex which worked well. I went through the known cofactors noticing they helped, but then it often seems taking all this stuff results in a vitamin overload of sorts.
The best thing you can do to reduce the need to play vitamin tag is probably to get good sleep and to spend some quality time outdoors.
But then the ability to notice when you need anything for your health is a deep aspect of self-regulation. This requires expanded awareness and self-history. What is better than taking an avalanche of vitamins is to know, from the state of your body and your past history, what vitamins to take and when to rest, move, meditate, etc.
And my own health seems to be dependent on some cursed rubik's cube combination lock of all the above factors. I could devote all my attention to it but then I'm at risk of having an unhealthy preoccupation with health when the point of all this is to be more free from health related concerns.
Not to downplay the usefulness of the information posted above, it fills in some blanks. But I am thinking about the "operational efficiency" of supplementation and how to create a feedback loop that will better keep all these factors in check.
Since the thiamine story reminds me of a vitamin D story, I wondered if there is some kind of negative feedback in the production of active forms of thiamine. And it seems that there is:
This means that a body has a natural regulation of production of active forms of vitamins, and not that there is something wrong with the body when it doesn't react positively with small nutritional doses. And when you are using high doses of such vitamins, you are simply overriding natural body mechanisms of such control.
Is there another solution to such problem other than taking high doses? In the case of vitamin D there is an option of taking the form (calcifediol) that is closer to the active form of vitamin D which produces much more active form than the other form (cholecalciferol).
There is also a question of pharmacodynamics, which can play a role in devising a proper protocol with vitamins. It seems that you cannot have a permanent high levels of active forms, but you can get temporary bursts, which may last for several hours.
I found another interesting thing about thiamine:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
This means that a body has a natural regulation of production of active forms of vitamins, and not that there is something wrong with the body when it doesn't react positively with small nutritional doses. And when you are using high doses of such vitamins, you are simply overriding natural body mechanisms of such control.
Is there another solution to such problem other than taking high doses? In the case of vitamin D there is an option of taking the form (calcifediol) that is closer to the active form of vitamin D which produces much more active form than the other form (cholecalciferol).
There is also a question of pharmacodynamics, which can play a role in devising a proper protocol with vitamins. It seems that you cannot have a permanent high levels of active forms, but you can get temporary bursts, which may last for several hours.
I found another interesting thing about thiamine:
However, several aspects of experimental data on the non-coenzymatic function of thiamine focused on its relationships with hormonal factors. On the one hand, thiamine and dopamine showed a close relationship in biosynthesis processes. Thiamine biosynthesis involved two independent pathways: synthesis of the thiazole and production of the pyrimidine moieties of thiamine, which are then coupled to form thiamine. L-tyrosine acts as an indispensable factor in the biosynthesis of the thiazole moiety of thiamine. L-tyrosine is the common precursor of the biosyntheses of both dopamine and thiamine. Tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate-limiting enzyme of catecholamine biosynthesis: It converts the L-tyrosine into L-dopa, a precursor of dopamine. Thiamine deficiency decreased tyrosine hydroxylase in the brain. These observations suggest that thiamine influences dopamine synthesis through its interactions with both L-tyrosine and tyrosine hydroxylase. Indeed, thiamine deficiency reduced synthesis of dopamine and decreased catecholamine turnover (dopamine + noradrenaline) in the hypothalamus and other brain regions. Moreover, cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) levels of thiamine decreased in patients with Parkinson’s disease. Parkinson’s disease patients under levodopa therapy had significantly higher CSF levels of thiamine diphosphate and total thiamine than those not treated with this drug.
Effects of 17β-Estradiol on Dopamine D2 Receptors in Thiamine-Deficient Female Rats Consequences on Sucrose, Alcohol, Water Intakes and Body Weight
Discover the impact of thiamine deficiency on 17β-estradiol's modulation of dopamine D2 receptors. Explore the effects of bromocriptine mesylate and sulpiride on water, sugar, alcohol, and food consumption in thiamine-deficient female rats. Gain insights into the interplay between thiamine and...www.scirp.org
Cerebrospinal fluid levels of thiamine in patients with Parkinson's disease - PubMed
Thiamine is an essential cofactor for several important enzymes involved in brain oxidative metabolism, such as the alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase complex (KGDHC), pyruvate-dehydrogenase complex, and transketolase. The activity of KGDHC is decreased in the substantia nigra or patients with...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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