Thiamine (Vitamin B1) - A common deficiency in disorders of energy metabolism, cardiovascular and nervous system dysfunction

Hello all, I just wanted to ask if any of you that is doing thiamine megadosing were using benfotiamine and how was their reaction to it? I've started five days ago with thiamine HCL 1.8g and on the first day, I felt very energetic. To the point that I went running in the evening and did my best time for a 5km run (with 25% of the training in zone 5 and 65% in zone 4!). Everything changed when two days ago I've started benfotiamine 600mg (+1.2g HCL) and 1200mg (+0.6g HCL) the day after. All of a sudden, depressive mood, anxiety, pain in the back after the first day of "benfo". The reason why I started megadosing is that I wanted to try something for my very mild fibromyalgia-like symptoms that I'm having for a few years: mild depression, occasional back pains (which appear and disappear suddenly), brain fog, and irritability. I'm taking 300mg of magnesium (citrate) with 450mg of potassium (also citrate) and 600mg of NAC, and also occasional vitamin C. Should I quit "benfo" for now or, because it is more bioavailable, reduce uptake? Even a minimal dose of "benfo" (300mg pill) is giving me a depressive mood. Or maybe should I just continue taking it and just cope with the paradoxical side effects?
 
KS said:
Hello all, I just wanted to ask if any of you that is doing thiamine megadosing were using benfotiamine and how was their reaction to it? I've started five days ago with thiamine HCL 1.8g and on the first day, I felt very energetic. To the point that I went running in the evening and did my best time for a 5km run (with 25% of the training in zone 5 and 65% in zone 4!). Everything changed when two days ago I've started benfotiamine 600mg (+1.2g HCL) and 1200mg (+0.6g HCL) the day after. All of a sudden, depressive mood, anxiety, pain in the back after the first day of "benfo". The reason why I started megadosing is that I wanted to try something for my very mild fibromyalgia-like symptoms that I'm having for a few years: mild depression, occasional back pains (which appear and disappear suddenly), brain fog, and irritability. I'm taking 300mg of magnesium (citrate) with 450mg of potassium (also citrate) and 600mg of NAC, and also occasional vitamin C. Should I quit "benfo" for now or, because it is more bioavailable, reduce uptake? Even a minimal dose of "benfo" (300mg pill) is giving me a depressive mood. Or maybe should I just continue taking it and just cope with the paradoxical side effects?
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Hey!

The reaction to benfo is interesting. The derivatives affect different people in different ways. If you felt better on HCL, then it might just be best to stick to using HCL.

Alternatively, you might simply be taking too much. Benfo is much stronger than HCL, meaning that you need less total thiamine. Some of the symptoms you describe can be found in people who take too much.

You could either try benfo along with a lower dose (or no HCL), or alternatively, stick with HCL only and see how you respond.

The fact that you had a positive response to HCL only is a fair indication that you may be of the "responders". The majority of people are not responsive to HDT, so it is a good sign. Experiment with different forms and see. Some people do well with HCL, some with Benfo, some with TTFD, and some with a mixture of all. Others get no response from any form, because their problem is not-responsive to thiamine in general
 
monotonic said:
I thought the dose to cause anxiety was around 1500mg based on the book by Lonsdale/Marrs? Have you read their book?
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No, I've just read Elliot's articles and a bunch of threads on Reddit, mainly on the ciprofloxacin (which I also took years ago and only did half of the treatment because of stomach pains and feeling really unwell) subreddit. I started with 100mg of HCL and built up the dose to 1800mg in the course of the first day because I felt no side effects, quite the contrary, I've felt better and better. Why 1800mg? I just wanted to stop somewhere, and I've seen that most of the people on "ciprio" subreddit were taking doses like this. But yes, it is possible that I've overdone it!
Keyhole said:
Hey!

The reaction to benfo is interesting. The derivatives affect different people in different ways. If you felt better on HCL, then it might just be best to stick to using HCL.

Alternatively, you might simply be taking too much. Benfo is much stronger than HCL, meaning that you need less total thiamine. Some of the symptoms you describe can be found in people who take too much.

You could either try benfo along with a lower dose (or no HCL), or alternatively, stick with HCL only and see how you respond.

The fact that you had a positive response to HCL only is a fair indication that you may be of the "responders". The majority of people are not responsive to HDT, so it is a good sign. Experiment with different forms and see. Some people do well with HCL, some with Benfo, some with TTFD, and some with a mixture of all. Others get no response from any form, because their problem is not-responsive to thiamine in general
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Thanks, Elliot! I'll try to just take 600mg of benfotiamine without HCL today and see what happens. I must say that thiamine seems to be the first supplement that is really doing something for me. The magnitude of improvement on the first day was almost the same as when I tried Modafinil (yes, I've tried a lot of things for my brain fog), just not in the same areas (Modafinil was addressing mainly my attention span issues, thiamine made more energetic and somewhat changed my response to tiredness). I will report back within a week and encourage everyone with symptoms like me to try it.
 
I took Thiamax along with a multi b supplement for around 6 months. During that time I mainly took 100mg a day, though for around a month I took double that before deciding to drop back down to 100mg. I felt calmer and more energetic while taking the Thiamax, and an observation that I found interesting was that pouch of tobacco started to last longer - gradually at first.

A pouch of tobacco usually lasts me about 9 days. It crept from that to 11, then 13 days and just before I ran out of Thiamax, the pouch lasted 18 days, or double what it had before. While I'd given some thought to cutting down, I hadn't put serious effort into it other than choosing particular chores or tasks where I wouldn't take my tobacco with me so that I couldn't automatically roll a ciggie.

While I was on Thiamax, I could have tobacco in my pocket, have the urge arise but without the usual level of intensity and was easy to brush aside while I focussed on other stuff.

It didn't take very long at all, maybe a month, for my previous smoking rate to return after I ran out of Thiamax and despite still taking multi B.

In the post about EMF sensitivity, there is mention that acetylcholine can be out of wack so I'm wondering if an increase in tobacco consumption is an attempt to balance that.
 
I wish I would have come across this thread when it started. Reading the articles, stories and all the symptoms is like a reflection of my life the last 10 years (some 50 years), started today with Benfothiamine 150 mg/day and Allithiamine 50 mg/day, will increase slowly.

Thanks Elliot!
 
Keyhole said:
Hey!

The reaction to benfo is interesting. The derivatives affect different people in different ways. If you felt better on HCL, then it might just be best to stick to using HCL.

Alternatively, you might simply be taking too much. Benfo is much stronger than HCL, meaning that you need less total thiamine. Some of the symptoms you describe can be found in people who take too much.

You could either try benfo along with a lower dose (or no HCL), or alternatively, stick with HCL only and see how you respond.

The fact that you had a positive response to HCL only is a fair indication that you may be of the "responders". The majority of people are not responsive to HDT, so it is a good sign. Experiment with different forms and see. Some people do well with HCL, some with Benfo, some with TTFD, and some with a mixture of all. Others get no response from any form, because their problem is not-responsive to thiamine in general
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The last month or so I've started to get more tired/fatigued, and pain in the upper stomach/back. Then I stumbled upon Thiamine, and decided to try it.

When people say go slow I have no idea what it means and it varies immensely between people, so this is me going slow.

This is my fourth day, first day 150 mg Benfo and 50 mg TTFD in the afternoon, next day 150 mg Benfo + 50 Mg TTFD in the morning + 150 mg Benfo at lunch. Third day 2x150 mg Benfo + 50 mg TTFD in the morning and 150 mg Benfo + 50 mg TTFD at lunch .
This morning 2x150 mg Benfo + 2x50 mg TTFD and plan to take 1x150 mg Benfo and 2x50 mg TTFD at lunch.

Now I begin feeling the taste of garlic in my mouth, quite a lot, and food taste garlic (even though no garlic in it) but I don't smell garlic. And I wake up around 2 AM with pain/headache etc. the last two nights.

My plan is to stay with Benfo at 450 mg and increase to TTFD to 4-500 mg or higher until I feel energised, good idea? My fatigue isn't reduced yet.

Or, should I just go directly for higher amounts of TTFD like 5-600 mg or even higher to get a positive (more energy) reaction? I'm taking all the other minerals/vitamins that EONutrion have in their assisting products.

Can the smell have to do with the 4 (I think) different detox pathways in the body, methyl, sulphur, glutathione, and (can't remember the 4th)?

Lots of questions…:)
 
Ok, another bad night. Decided to skip the Benfo and just do TTFD today, took 150 mg with breakfast and my body said "Hell no!"

So, I will wait until I'm back to "normal", take 50 mg TTFD /day the first week and if I'm ok take 100 mg/day the second week, and so on.

On the positive side, my body "responds".
 
worldbridger said:
Ok, another bad night. Decided to skip the Benfo and just do TTFD today, took 150 mg with breakfast and my body said "Hell no!"

So, I will wait until I'm back to "normal", take 50 mg TTFD /day the first week and if I'm ok take 100 mg/day the second week, and so on.

On the positive side, my body "responds".
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I though I'd write a quick update after supplementing with Thiamax for a few months.

When my wife and I started the Thiamine supplements, I experimented trying Benfo for a week and then Thiamax for a week to see if there was a difference. It was huge. I thought I had a head cold taking the Benfo (it was still wintry here) as my right ear canal swelled up to the point I couldn't hear at all on that side. Then it would go away on the Thiamax week and come back on the Benfo week. As I thought I just had a lingering ear issue (yet had no other symptoms of a virus and haven't had ear issues in decades), it took me a while to figure it out.

The Benfo was tossed out and since then and both of us take Thiamax daily (1 capsule) with B-12. Both of us have a big increase in energy and metabolism. My mental acuity throughout the day has sharpened noticeably. I spend a lot less time scrolling Twitter and more time digging into more complex books and papers. Because of the climate here, we find that by March, the "winter depression/depletion" kicks in hard. The Thiamax helped with this as well. The "psychic" weather seemed to be much less severe than usual.

My wife also has a number of food intolerances and the Thiamax has helped with her metabolism and lessening the impact when she has to eat "bad" things. We're both pretty sure we'll be taking it for good. I've gone a few days here and there without it and noticeably feel "depleted" quickly and my mind starts falling down into negative feedback loops without any event to really trigger that.
 
Hello,

Fist off, thanks @Keyhole for bringing this topic to the front as openly and clearly as you do. Your whole work is invaluable.
Like many, I may correspond to the "functional deficiency" profile with regards to some symptoms, and I would especially like to thank you by ordering from your company. However, I see that every products are sold out for now, I assume your communication from these last years resulted in this success, cheers.
Is a replenishment supposed to happen soon, and, if yes, hopefully when about ?

Thank you again for the quality of what you're bringing to us. Wishing you health and strength.
 
ELT said:
Hello,

Fist off, thanks @Keyhole for bringing this topic to the front as openly and clearly as you do. Your whole work is invaluable.
Like many, I may correspond to the "functional deficiency" profile with regards to some symptoms, and I would especially like to thank you by ordering from your company. However, I see that every products are sold out for now, I assume your communication from these last years resulted in this success, cheers.
Is a replenishment supposed to happen soon, and, if yes, hopefully when about ?

Thank you again for the quality of what you're bringing to us. Wishing you health and strength.
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Hi ELT,

Thiamax is about to be restocked within the next two days in the USA, and approximately 1 week after that in UK/EU.

Our other products are gradually being restocked over October/November!

However, I see that every products are sold out for now, I assume your communication from these last years resulted in this success, cheers.
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Yep! It was a combination of greater awareness of the topic, word of mouth recommendations, and actually making good products :-D Either way, we didn't accurately anticipate the demand so unfortunately went out of stock across the board.

They are on their way back very soon.
 
I did the most stupid thing, didn't want to be without thiamine and because Thiamax was out of the stock at the moment I
ordered Benfothiamine to try it out and to have at least something by hand.
I took 2 pills a day, one in the morning and one afternoon- that's 500 mg total.
First 4 days it was great but then my muscles started to hurt like crazy, that feeling like you are gonna get cramps all day long.
So I quit.
With same amount per day my husband is feeling great. :huh:
I guess now I know what's better for me but it's definitely interesting
Long live @Keyhole , you have a great product and thank you ;-D
 
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