This turned me upside down: Making one guy to believe that apocalypse 'happened'

[neema]

For me the importance of it being fake or real was not paramount. They screened thousands of people to find someone that they could manipulate at will. His slight disconnect could be that he was not fully “awake”, and at all times under some sort of “control”.

To me even if its not fake, the whole setup was fake. I mean bring people in just to get him to react a certain way? Tell them exactly what to say and do to hopefully evoke the right outcome? This stuff is behavioral science 101, imo. And the whole show was heavily edited and cued to evoke also a response from the viewer.

I agree that the whole thing stinks of some sort of psychological experiment.

But the thing that really shocked me, I guess by now I should know better, is how easily the ordinary people in his life went along into fooling this poor guy for their own selfish gain/kicks.

If its not a fake, then that is truly a scary signs of the times. I mean really whats next, reality TV witch hunt trials?

 

[Masamune]

Ok, this is just my opinion so take it just as that - an opinion. When I watched the show I did wonder all the time if the guy Steve was acting or not. He doesn't give much clues because as others have noted, he is kind of shallow in his reactions. But at the end I was inclined to believe it was real precisely because he under-reacted, and because many of his reactions were there but were very subtle. I would expect from an actor to show-off how emotionally charged he was and how upset, etc, and I would expect to hear lots of 'bleeps' trying to convince the public he's for real. But he wasn't. In fact, I found all the other actors (the two guys and the girl) rather fake, with Steve being more convincing.

Since Derren Brown has made his career out of studying human psychology and how to manipulate people, and has done a large number of similar shows, he probably knows very well how someone would react in such a situation. He could possibly coach an actor to respond in a spaced out, dissociated type of way to the horrifying situation presented to him in order to increase the realism of the show.

 

[ocean59]

For me the importance of it being fake or real was not paramount. They screened thousands of people to find someone that they could manipulate at will. His slight disconnect could be that he was not fully “awake”, and at all times under some sort of “control”.

How do we know he actually screened thousands of people (this being from the 'it is real' POV)? Perhaps he simply 'auditioned' thousands of actors (this being from the 'it is fake' POV). You say it doesn't matter whether or not it was real, but then immediately go into assumptions based upon its reality.

And the whole show was heavily edited and cued to evoke also a response from the viewer.

Most definitely, whether or not it was 'real.'

But the thing that really shocked me, I guess by now I should know better, is how easily the ordinary people in his life went along into fooling this poor guy for their own selfish gain/kicks.

I didn't see any evidence of this. The guise being presented to his friends and family was to wake Steven up to a better way of seeing things, to take responsibility for his life. Were it actually real, this could have served to benefit him, assuming we also believe the earlier 'raw' footage in the beginning.

Since Derren Brown has made his career out of studying human psychology and how to manipulate people, and has done a large number of similar shows, he probably knows very well how someone would react in such a situation. He could possibly coach an actor to respond in a spaced out, dissociated type of way to the horrifying situation presented to him in order to increase the realism of the show.

I think this is very likely what has occurred here. The whole point was to prey upon people's inner desire to believe that a sleeping individual could be 'saved' by such tactics, and thus believe the ploy.

 

[Don Genaro]

A lot of food for thought here. Is it fake or isn't it? As I watched it, I had the strange sensation that it was working on a few different levels. That DB was not only manipulating the protagonist but was also directing some of his hypnotic suggestions at the general public. I've watched a lot of him in the past and there was one particular moment that struck me as I could see he was using his "suggestions" and was directing them straight at the viewer. I think it's around minute 19/19:30 when, between scenes, it goes to black and white, he addresses the camera and says "Today, is the day, of the end of the world." He nods his head when saying "Today" and "day" as well as using a heavier vocal emphasis on the above bolded parts. Now, maybe I'm reading too much into it but I did recognise this as the sort of thing I've seen him do before- using body language (his head here- I've seen him use his hands on other occasions to sort of beat a rhythm to whatever he's saying to give it more emphasis). Knowing his penchant for hypnotizing folk and not just individuals but groups also, I'm thinking he'd be only too delighted to have a crack at pulling a stunt on the general public. You know, letting the public in on a secret whilst he secretly plays on the public mind Would it be paranoid of me to think that maybe he has a Dec. 21st "special" planned in the style of WOTW? Probably. But I still couldn't help thinking of the Psychic Projectors theme. That Derren Brown is projecting thoughts into Steve Brosnan/the publics' mind. Is somebody projecting into Derren Brown's mind?

Edited to add: The Comets:Virus:Zombies was just a little too weird as a theme. It was like he'd been reading the forum!

 

[Guardian]

Since Derren Brown has made his career out of studying human psychology and how to manipulate people, and has done a large number of similar shows, he probably knows very well how someone would react in such a situation. He could possibly coach an actor to respond in a spaced out, dissociated type of way to the horrifying situation presented to him in order to increase the realism of the show.

I think this is very likely what has occurred here. The whole point was to prey upon people's inner desire to believe that a sleeping individual could be 'saved' by such tactics, and thus believe the ploy.

If Brown is a real hypnotist, he could have hypnotized an actor to get exactly the performance he wanted?

There also an element of "don't worry if you're a slacker, if something bad happens you'll magically turn into the person you want and/or need to be." Poof...instant hero, just add zombies.

 

[neema]

How do we know he actually screened thousands of people (this being from the 'it is real' POV)? Perhaps he simply 'auditioned' thousands of actors (this being from the 'it is fake' POV). You say it doesn't matter whether or not it was real, but then immediately go into assumptions based upon its reality.

Point is, say this was NOT fake. Say the family “had” good intentions. You believe it is acceptable to do this to someone, to “teach them a lesson”? Forget about putting yourself in the place of the universe, talk about a huge violation of free will.

To me this guy is the result of his environment and upbringing. When the mother speaks of the son not appreciating all that she does for him, it just appears to me anyway, that she is an enabler who is contributing to the apathy of the son to make herself feel like a “good mother”. I mean if he is 21 why is she making him breakfast? If I’m not mistaken he was the younger child and treated that way for a very long time. Also he briefly mentioned how his older brother would “beat the crap” out of him when they were younger. Point is “they” all contributed to his condition, and to single him out this way is very telling imo.

In the end, really put yourself in the shoos of this kid? How would you feel if “your” family did this to you? Would you see it as no big deal? I know for me, because of the betrayal I would feel in the fundamental trust I have with my immediate family, I could no longer trust that family. I would no longer see them as “family”. Remember, the “road to hell was paved with good intentions”, and the “apple does not fall too far away from the tree”.

Personally when I think about it I say it was a fake, do to the fact that he didn't react as I would expect someone who was just imo abused and traumatized.

Well unless the money he got was a really nice amount to “pacify” him.

Fwiw.

 

[Ekios]

How do we know he actually screened thousands of people (this being from the 'it is real' POV)? Perhaps he simply 'auditioned' thousands of actors (this being from the 'it is fake' POV). You say it doesn't matter whether or not it was real, but then immediately go into assumptions based upon its reality.

Point is, say this was NOT fake. Say the family “had” good intentions. You believe it is acceptable to do this to someone, to “teach them a lesson”? Forget about putting yourself in the place of the universe, talk about a huge violation of free will.

I have huge concerns on that matter too, I'm still wondering, in case the whole thing is real, if it is "legal" to do that to someone, nor to say if it is "normal" ... (for what normality is worth in our days)

In the end, really put yourself in the shoos of this kid? How would you feel if “your” family did this to you? Would you see it as no big deal? I know for me the betrayal of the fundamental trust in my immediate family would instantly evaporate. I would no longer see them as “family”. Remember, the “road to hell was paved with good intentions”, and the “apple does not fall too far away from the tree”.

I think, in a manner of speaking, that I would have "kill them all" ... when I try to put myself in his shoes, at the end in the kitchen, the second the emotion of joy to have them back a bit diminished ? I would have probably made one hell of a mess, things would have fly around the room, and a lot, lot of curses would have been engaged ... (this is why I don't think anyone in my family would ever try that, i'm far too much attached and emotional when it comes about them)

Personally when I think about it I say it was a fake, do to the fact that he didn't react as I would expect someone who was just imo abused and traumatized.

Well unless the money he got was a really nice amount to “pacify” him.

Fwiw.

I still don't know about the reality of that show, and actualy for me it is a secondary question. What matters imo is what it shows us, the possibilities of how our world could be actually working right under our hypnotized little noses ...

 

[neema]

I still don't know about the reality of that show, and actualy for me it is a secondary question. What matters imo is what it shows us, the possibilities of how our world could be actually working right under our hypnotized little noses ...

Yes I agree. At least something positive can come out of this very inhumane experiment. By seeing how easily we can all be manipulated and controlled.

 

[Masamune]

If Brown is a real hypnotist, he could have hypnotized an actor to get exactly the performance he wanted?

Yes I think he is a very good hypnotist, at least from what I have seen on his tv appearances. From what I have seen from his other shows a small proportion of the general public are highly susceptible to hypnosis and that is why he does these large screenings before shows. He could have hypnotized him to be calm and non violent during the show.

Also, one would think that he wouldn't risk doing something so obviously fake when he has real talent in manipulating people. If people found out and could prove that it was fake then he would lose respect and some of his audience. Unless of course, his real purpose was the manipulation of the audience which he has done before:

TV illusionist Derren Brown's audience were more than just rooted to their seats last night - they were completely stuck.

Brown's latest stunt saw him persuading viewers of his Channel 4 show they were temporarily immobile.

And it seemed to work - a Channel 4 spokeswoman revealed that more than 50,000 people rang the channel within three minutes of the screening to say they were stuck to their chairs.

Of the 4.1million viewers who watched the show, one in four is estimated to have been affected by the stunt.

 

[Don Genaro]

TV illusionist Derren Brown's audience were more than just rooted to their seats last night - they were completely stuck.

Brown's latest stunt saw him persuading viewers of his Channel 4 show they were temporarily immobile.

And it seemed to work - a Channel 4 spokeswoman revealed that more than 50,000 people rang the channel within three minutes of the screening to say they were stuck to their chairs.

Of the 4.1million viewers who watched the show, one in four is estimated to have been affected by the stunt.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I remember one show (but can't remember the details) where he was setting someone up by driving them on a certain route with certain landmarks which were preplanned hypnotic suggestions for the trick he was pulling off. I couldn't help but wonder if the entire show was loaded with suggestions for the public but like I said above, I noticed some moments where he seemed to be using his suggestions on the viewer...

 

[ocean59]

If Brown is a real hypnotist, he could have hypnotized an actor to get exactly the performance he wanted?

Interesting twist I had not considered before, but entirely possible for sure. Though the more I watch anything by him, the more I think that his level of 'control' over his shows and everyone involved, is the key point to maintaining what may really be a simple charade.

 

[ocean59]

Point is, say this was NOT fake. Say the family “had” good intentions. You believe it is acceptable to do this to someone, to “teach them a lesson”? Forget about putting yourself in the place of the universe, talk about a huge violation of free will.

Totally agreed. There are huge issues here, of a Truman Show type. Not to mention all the implications of encouraging others to violate free will, because, they too, know what is 'best' for someone. We are all on our own paths, learning our own lessons.

Honestly, when I saw Darren Brown put Steven to sleep in the bus, and then watched him wake up the next day (with supposedly nothing else at all happening in between), my first thought was 'This could not have been achieved without drugs.' And then I thought, maybe it is real? Maybe Steven signed a legal contract he didn't read, giving away his legal rights, and unintentionally agreeing to be subject to such abuse?

These grave violations on just about every ethical standard imaginable are what drove me to keep watching, and come to a conclusion, one way or the other, as to whether or not it was all 'for real' or just another Blair Witch Project. Once I decided fully that it was fake, I no longer worried so much about those concerns, and was more upset for wasting my time with it than anything.

But for sure, there are extremely important moral and ethical quandaries, especially since so many people out there DO seem to think it is real (and many of them probably now think it is OK to do such things, when they deem it is in someone else's 'best interest). Scary stuff.

In the end, really put yourself in the shoos of this kid? How would you feel if “your” family did this to you?

As others have said, I would be highly upset, probably wanting to punch someone in the face (and I am a pacifist!). I didn't finish watching the last 20 minutes, but my understanding is that he didn't act upset at all when it was revealed. Perhaps the conditioning going on here is on a whole other level indeed - subtly influencing the TV watching audience at large to accept things that are reprehensible, in a most insidious way.

There is definitely some hypnosis going on here, imo, the question is more about who is being hypnotized, and to what ends...

 

[Masamune]

Point is, say this was NOT fake. Say the family “had” good intentions. You believe it is acceptable to do this to someone, to “teach them a lesson”? Forget about putting yourself in the place of the universe, talk about a huge violation of free will.

Maybe Steven signed a legal contract he didn't read, giving away his legal rights, and unintentionally agreeing to be subject to such abuse?

In the end, really put yourself in the shoos of this kid? How would you feel if “your” family did this to you?

I wouldn't trust someone like Derren Brown to be able to "improve" someone so I don't think it is a good way to get some kid to grow up. If it was real he didn't seem very changed from the experience from what I saw but they didn't really go into that very much. As for the violation of free will concerns, I think he probably knew very well what he was getting himself into signing up for a Derren Brown show. DB has done a large number of shows in the past where he secretly does things to people who agreed to be on the show, sometimes really good and sometimes really horrible. I would never want to be on a show like that but I guess some people are in to that type of thing.

 

[Soluna]

Totally agreed. There are huge issues here, of a Truman Show type. Not to mention all the implications of encouraging others to violate free will, because, they too, know what is 'best' for someone. We are all on our own paths, learning our own lessons.

Whilst I was watching this - The Truman show is exactly what came to my mind as well. When Derren is sat behind the screens, watching Steve 'grow', he has a huge 'heart warming' smile of pride on his face. Is he proud of Steve 'growing' under his 'tutelage', or is he proud that his manipulations have made Steve 'feel' brave, or appear brave - or is he proud that this comes across in the 'filming'? Regardless of whether Steve was a complicit actor or not, everything was fake in the sense that every outcome of every possible act of 'courage' was carefully planned to succeed - 'nothing could go wrong', no zombie would get close enough to harm Steve, no 'meteor' would land close enough to injure him, or even the cavorts of the bus would not leave a scratch on him. It was definitely a 'cotton wool' apocalypse.

I was thinking more on the 'why's - and some other possibilities occurred to me.

The production 'showed' how a very apathetic, lazy and inconsiderate 'every day' person - could rise to the challenge in a crisis and better themselves - to prove brave and selfless. So there would be no need for people to change the way they are, until a crisis came along, because 'that' would be when they would show how brave and selfless they could be.

 

[Ben]

I watched it, and all I could think was how much more interesting it would be to see this guy in one year's time rather than after reuniting with his family.