Tips and experiences ordering recommended books

fabric

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
nemo said:
The 110 $ were payed via paypal 2 months ago! Now a month later I haven`t heard or received anything yet :mad:.

That sucks. I ordered my set through them and I got them in about 6 weeks. I got a confirmation email from a Dan Fontaine (apparently takes care of north american orders). I can forward his email addy if you don't have it (if you are located in NA that is).
 

Johnno

The Living Force
nemo said:
When Amazon can`t deliver (which, thanks to the SOTT-booklist happens more and more often) I can recommend Abebooks. No bad experiences at all so far.*
*but do make sure to buy from sellers who are rated *** - ****. Best so far: By The Way - Books.
I'd recommend By The Way as well when ordering on Abebooks. They always have interesting stuff.

Just a note, Abebooks was bought by Amazon last year.
 

nemo

Jedi
The Gunslinger said:
I ordered my set through them and I got them in about 6 weeks

So there`s still hope :D.

Johnno said:
Just a note, Abebooks was bought by Amazon last year.

That`s great. Makes it easier for them to compile reading-profiles :).
 

RedFox

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Well, every so often I go searching for the harder to find/more expensive books on the reading list (I've been lucky to get a few while they where still bargins).
The Cosmic Winter is now about £350 on amazon :(

So on my searches I happened to run across something rather important I feel, an on line academic version!

*edit, I've removed the link after reading the thread linked below by bedower/pepperfritz*

The Copyright notice says 'Attribution Non-commercial', so hopefully this is not breaking forum rules (posting links to copyrighted material). Its also been on there since 10/29/2008
Please could a mod confirm this is ok? It seems like a bit of a grey area to me in this case. If I could buy the book I would.....maybe one day I'll be able to buy one of the last physical copies left in circulation :/

I can't see any other books by Clube on there. Haven't tried looking for and of the others on there yet either.
Hope this is of some use (and not breaking copyright)!
 

nemo

Jedi
Redfox,
since I`m on this forum I bought some pricey books, pricey for me that is.
But there are limits! Like 350 Pounds for a book.
I`d try to check the libraries first if I were you.
If they don`t have it or there`s no bigger library near you I`d read it online and ask questions later :cool:, fwiw.

Regarding my previous posts on this thread:
Today I got the Gnosis-books from praxisinstitute (four months after ordering).
Better late then never :D!
 

Gawan

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Hi RedFox,

or also any other member.
If you maybe still studying in a university, or know someone who does, there is a very good chance to get borrowed these rare books over the library, or of a library network.
So it happened to me, I used -remote borrowing- and got the book ("the cosmic winter") from another library of another city.

fwiw.
 

bedower

Jedi Master
[quote author=nemo today] I`d read it online and ask questions later , fwiw.
[/quote]

The ethics of this is discussed extensively in this thread .

It's especially difficult for those of us who are having real trouble getting hold of the prescribed books; it can be a handicap. It puts us at a disadvantage when the topic of whichever book it is comes up in the threads, osit. Not to mention that only small excerpts are ever quoted, so we miss out on the rest of the knowledge.

So what do we do? Try to muddle through on the forum without the books? Or set ethics and author royalties aside and read the book on-line if we can?

It's a conundrum, and although both the questions above were brought up in the linked thread, I'm still struggling to find an answer that I can live with!
 

nemo

Jedi
bedower said:
Or set ethics and author royalties aside and read the book on-line if we can?

What`s it to the author if you
a) buy books secondhand
b) borrow books from the library
c) borrow books from a friend
d) lend books to friends
or e) read books online

The author doesn´t care because in all cases he get`s nothing.
Only if you buy a NEW copy does the author get royalties.

bedower said:
It's a conundrum, and although both the questions above were brought up in the linked thread,
I'm still struggling to find an answer that I can live with!

Not sure about answer, but here are more questions:
What about a dead author? Do we have to be considerate to the author`s inheritants or copyright holders?
Is it in general unethical to borrow books or buy them on the fleamarket, ebay or secondhand bookstores?
If you were an author would you rather prefer your books only being read if you personally profited from each "act of consumerism"?
Would you as an author mind if for one sold copy 9 more people would read it?
Does Victor Cube even get a fragment of a cent if you buy it for 350 $ from that AmazonMarketplace-seller?
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
nemo said:
Not sure about answer, but here are more questions:
What about a dead author? Do we have to be considerate to the author`s inheritants or copyright holders?
Is it in general unethical to borrow books or buy them on the fleamarket, ebay or secondhand bookstores?
If you were an author would you rather prefer your books only being read if you personally profited from each "act of consumerism"?
Would you as an author mind if for one sold copy 9 more people would read it?
Does Victor Cube even get a fragment of a cent if you buy it for 350 $ from that AmazonMarketplace-seller?

This is quite a good example of legalistic thinking and missing the crux of the matter.
 

PepperFritz

The Living Force
Nemo:

Many of the questions you pose were asked and extensively discussed in the following thread:

Good Website for Free Books

I have an extensive background in copyright issues, and provided some detailed answers/responses in that thread that may expand your understanding of those issues....

:)
 

nemo

Jedi
anart said:
This is quite a good example of legalistic thinking and missing the crux of the matter.

I can see my post is biased and tries justifying reading books without paying. That`s actually not my attitude.
My comment should have been more balanced. And yes I have a tendency not to see the woods for all the trees :(.

Pepperfritz said:
Many of the questions you pose were asked and extensively discussed in the following thread:
Good Website for Free Books
I have an extensive background in copyright issues, and provided some detailed answers/responses in that thread that may expand your understanding of those issues....

I should have read the rec. thread before commenting. But I`ll read it now!
Also curious about your answers :)
 

RedFox

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Well, having read the link posted by bedower/pepper fritz, and me and others having made enquires in the past that Cosmic Winter is still probably under copyright despite being out of print. So to have the easy (law breaking) option of reading/downloading on line is probably quite STS.....
So I've removed the link from above. My apologies. I actually feel quite relieved having removed it.

If I knew the £350 (or at least part of it) was going to clube/napier I'd not hesitate in buying it (once I had raised the funds). Part of me must have wrongly concluded that because buying it off amazon is of no help to them that the on line version was probably the same (and thus ok to do!)...hmm

Next time I find myself in a grey area, I'll try and do more research before deciding a course of action especially if it feels 'easy to do'.
 

bedower

Jedi Master
[quote author=nemo today ] What`s it to the author if you
a) buy books secondhand
b) borrow books from the library
c) borrow books from a friend
d) lend books to friends
[/quote]

This is not quite the same thing to my mind. All authors expect all of the above, osit, and take these points into account.

or e) read books online

The author doesn´t care because in all cases he get`s nothing.
Only if you buy a NEW copy does the author get royalties.

Reading books online when the author is still alive and these books under copyright is exactly what is discussed in the thread linked by Pepperfritz and myself. I'm only guessing here, but I think the author would care very much, precisely because they get nothing - i.e. payment for their work. Read what Laura, as a published author, has to say about it. And Laura has put a great deal of her work online freely, both here in this forum and on the Cass site.

What about a dead author? Do we have to be considerate to the author`s inheritants or copyright holders?

Following the ethics of this question, the honest answer has to be 'yes, we do'.

Is it unethical to borrow books or buy them on the fleamarket, ebay or secondhand bookstores?

Again, I'm guessing authors would take this kind of thing into account.

If you were an author would you rather prefer your books only being read if you personally profited from each "act of consumerism"?

That would be ideal. Maybe I'd make some money that way, were I an author! ;D

Would you as an author mind if for one sold copy 9 more people would read it?

Honestly speaking, no I wouldn't. I'd be delighted that people would want to read my book, even if I lost the 'royalties'. But there is no way of asking authors whose books are place on-line without their consent how they feel about it.

Does Victor Cube even get a fragment of a cent if you buy it for 350 $ from that AmazonMarketplace-seller?

I've no idea what their arrangements are.

Nemo, please don't think I'm attacking you in any way. As someone who's having real problems getting hold of the recommended books, reading the occasional one that appears on-line would be the perfect solution for me (and for any other forumite having the same problem!). It's a question of ethics and honesty. Being wilfully unethical and dishonest would mar the Work I'm trying to do on myself, osit. Following your suggestion of reading on-line and asking questions later is a BIG temptation for me, and as Oscar Wilde said; "The only way to get rid of temptation is by giving in to it!". But that would give me a really BIG guilt-trip, and I have enough guilt on my plate that I'm trying to deal with, without adding more. Just my opinion, fwiw.

Dear oh dear, time for a :cool2:, I think!
 

Johnno

The Living Force
Interesting blog on the second hand royalties side of things here. It's already being done in Europe with artworks that are commanding much higher prices than when the artists commissioned them.

Quite a good read with a lot of varied opinion from authors, people in the trade and customers.

http://www.teleread.org/2008/12/25/should-second-hand-book-stores-pay-royalties/
 

Bobo08

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I have the book Cosmic Winter scanned out in a pdf file. Given that it is so difficult and costly to get it, and the book really needs to reach a wider audience, I would be willing to send it privately to members of this forum who need it. Please send me a private message if you want a copy.
 
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