Tools for observing and analysing the self?

[Buddy]

It sound like to just notice everything, like no-man's-land wrote to "record" the chains of reactions, to make a movie of every situation somehow. First the film is maybe just in black and white, later it is in colour and at last there is also sound on the film. With these different steps I mean, because it is somehow difficult to track everything all at once, especially the inner-voice at the same time of observing.

I don't think we have to worry about tracking everything at once. My conscious effort is to have my attention on my surroundings, trying to pay attention to objective reality, left and right. My nervous system is for processing data as it arrives and bringing it all into my awareness and to project the 3D world so that I can sense and react to it. My intent towards it all is to not add any new thoughts and feelings to what I observe so as to avoid getting sucked into internal considering.

Sometimes what you may have to do is go back and forth with your attention, observing your inner cognitive factors and physical sensations as an integral, co-occuring part of your entire life domain or context and notice what's going on around you at the same time. Sort of like when you're looking for something and your eyes move back and forth to cover and notice as much of the area that you can see.

We already know the amygdala responds preattentively to stimuli, so try not to be taken by surprise or at least be ready with a useful mental state and exercise self-control tied to your overall Aim.

If you don't notice as much as you can and make the effort to be present to yourself at all times, you may miss the fact that it was the red-and-white checkered tie that might have stimulated 'feelings' of discomfort. :)

 

[Mrs. Peel]

So I'm wondering if it is possible of sharing experiences of observing the self, or even techniques? How to accurately analyse and to look "on" oneself, techniques for analysing, or writing a journal and view oneself from different angles?

One of the first times I realized how I was perceived by others took place at work probably 20 years ago. I had two female friends Phyllis and Cathy, I ate lunch with almost daily. On the days we didn't eat together, they both went for a walk in the park. I asked if I could join them, and did so a couple times.

One day shortly before lunch I stopped in Phyllis' office to ask what time we were leaving for the walk. She looked at me and said "Cathy and I don't want you walking with us anymore." I thought she was joking. She wasn't. She explained rather curtly that I ruined their walk with my negative, bossy, and sarcastic attitude.

I was dumbfounded. What? what? WHAT? I thought I was being bright, organized, and witty! I was reallyl hurt. Now, I guess Phyllis could have been a bit more diplomatic about it, but that wasn't her way. I was Phyllis' secretary, and from them on, things were really tense between us, until she left the company.

I tried calling Cathy (she worked upstairs) to just have lunch together after that, and she made up some excuse and started hanging out with another secretary. I found out later that both of them were telling other coworkers about different things I'd said and done, and they were so skewed from what *I* perceived I had said and done.

My husband used to work there before he was laid off years ago, and recently he told me some of the stuff the guys I worked for said about me back then, and I was totally shocked again, as I was perceived soooo differently by them than what I thought of myself.

These days, I try to put myself in the other person's place before I say, do, or act a certain way. How would I feel if they did/said that to ME?? How would I perceive myself if I were them?

It's really easy to second guess yourself tho.. :/

 

[obyvatel]

I write down some things that stand out during my efforts of self-observation - thoughts, feelings and events in a particular day for example. I periodically go back and read the observations that I wrote down in the past. Once a pattern emerges clearly through repetition, I start asking "why". Why did I think/feel/do things the way I did? Here the information of the recommended psychology books play an invaluable role. So far all the important, recurring patterns that I have discovered in myself relates to childhood events/environment. Many times I have tried to hold the "why" question regarding some patterns while meditating (EE/POTS) before going to bed at night.
Answers have come in various ways - sometimes I read something in a book or here in the forum, do some more digging and find the answer. (incidentally, these types of coincidences where my question coincides with what is discussed in this forum or plays out in a more subtle way through some other events almost the very next day has become quite common). Sometimes I spontaneously recall some childhood event which is connected to my "why" question. Once I can intellectually connect the dots (i.e establish causality), I try to go back to the past event and feel what I could have felt in that situation. I am not too good at this feeling part but recently I have made some good breakthroughs. The intensity of some of the feelings have come as a jolt to me.
The patterns that I have been able to uncover do not immediately go away - but it is easier to recognize them when they come up again. I have found that more I can access the intensity of the emotion connected to the seed event, the easier it gets to catch the pattern/program early on.
I have a long way to go - but what I have found so far clearly showed me I am asleep - reacting to present events based on the past. Intellectually reading about the mechanical nature/sleep and actually seeing it is quite different.

 

[Iron]

This is one of the points of the work where a big part of my confusion lies.
Were start and were ends the "putting oneself in the shoes of another".
If you have not interacted with a person for a decent amount of time, its hard to know what programs/sore spots a person has.
And with some people you are set up for failure.
I dont know what you said then Mrs. Peel, and how accurate is their evaluation of you at the time.

Yes this is a situation that demands constant practice, to see how the other would perceive you.
But for example, lets take Laura, and some of you moderators for example.
Sometimes you guys take posts and dissect, and people take in the wrong light what is said. Im sure that you guys are taking the poster stance and perceived state of mind into account, but it does not seem to make a lot of difference in the reactions.

I say this not as a attack, but as I perceive things. Mods write things in the most loving way, but people still take in the wrong light. Mods can say things in the most direct way, for sometimes this is the most efficient way, but people still take in the wrong light. I can be totally wrong in my perception though. What I'm saying is, what about the "doomed from the start" situations?

 

[Iron]

Sorry for the two posts but Im having difficulties posting related to the computer Im using.

What about the situations doomed from the start?
Were the people dislike you for being ( insert whatever characteristic ) ?
Or when people have cognitive distortion to the point of taking things said in the wrong light?

 

[Buddy]

This is one of the points of the work where a big part of my confusion lies.
Were start and were ends the "putting oneself in the shoes of another".
If you have not interacted with a person for a decent amount of time, its hard to know what programs/sore spots a person has.

Hi Iron. Are you referring mainly to situations only on the forum or in daily life, or both?

The reason I ask is because it appears to me that, at least on the forum, Mods and Admin can get to know a person pretty well just from observing posting activity.

 

[Iron]

Yes, mainly in daily life.
In the posting situations, the mods are able to see what is coming before it is obvious to everyone.

Yes those strange situations where prejudice in part of another sets you for failure.
Right now I cant see how putting oneself in the shoes of another can help in such a situation.

However Im not saying that it does not help, Im just requesting some help to see how.

For instance, in the situation of Mrs Peel. If she had more awareness of how the other perceive her, how would that affect the outcome of the situation?

Hi Iron. Are you referring mainly to situations only on the forum or in daily life, or both?

The reason I ask is because it appears to me that, at least on the forum, Mods and Admin can get to know a person pretty well just from observing posting activity.

 

[Alada]

Yes those strange situations where prejudice in part of another sets you for failure.
Right now I cant see how putting oneself in the shoes of another can help in such a situation.

Well that's a difficult thing to make a general statement about, always there's gonna be the context to take into consideration and the type of person.

If you're fairly certain your dealing with a pathological type for example, that's going to dictate what kind of external consideration you make. Or you might notice emotional programs running that would colour things another way, or might just be something silly and mechanical and so on. So in each case you have to think about how that applies to 'putting oneself in the shoes of another'. It doesn't always mean being 'nice', and remember as Gurdjieff noted 'sincerity with everyone is a weakness'.

As a kind of regular example, a member of our extended family, lets call this person 'N' is often quite difficult to be around. Very critical, judgmental, sometimes rude, likes to complain and most of all 'N' loves to suffer and to let others know just how much. Now we invited 'N' over last Christmas to share the day with the rest of the family, much to my partners dismay, and I was not even sure if it was the right thing to do but decided to play it by ear.

So non the day 'N' settles in and in no time at all is standing over my shoulder criticising the way I am preparing the Christmas meal! 'N' offers to take over the task at hand, "here let me do that". What to do?

Well, it struck me that what 'N' really was was uncomfortable, there were strangers there too not just the regular family. The criticism and awkward attempt to take over was 'N's way to find something to do, to slip into something routine as a kind of escape. I didn't need to be offended, but 'N' needed to be doing something to feel at ease. So sure, why not, I needed some help really anyway and needed the practice of accepting it when offered! So 'N' prepped the veg, helped make the gravy, I let everyone know how helpful 'N' had been and how great the gravy was in particular - which it was!

A few hours later there haven't been any awkward incidents, no complaining, none of the usual jibes at others, in fact 'N' is having a great time wearing a party hat and sporting a stick-on 70s style droopy black mustache from a Christmas cracker - the last person in the world you'd think would have gone for that! In the end it was good to have 'N' there, not stressful as it has been in the past.

It took ages to figure out how to cope with 'N', I had failed many times before and didn't even feel like I wanted to be considerate! In the end it was about putting the other person at their ease without getting drained in the process, it made life easier for everyone. So its not always about trying to do things to make the other person feel good/better in an obvious way if that's where the confusion is. Sometimes it requires firmness, sometimes more strategic thinking is needed. Everyone is going to be different, I guess the more we practice the better we can get.

 

[Iron]

Much thanks Alada!!

This post speak a lot to me.

Strategy. Strategy, coupled with external considering and relating everything to the background in question!
Diferent strokes for different situations.

Its much clearer now!

 

[Mrs. Peel]

However Im not saying that it does not help, Im just requesting some help to see how.

For instance, in the situation of Mrs Peel. If she had more awareness of how the other perceive her, how would that affect the outcome of the situation?

Well, most of this happened when I was in my 20s and still had a lot of life lessons to learn. When I did find out how I was perceived back then, I wasn't mature enough to take it as constructive criticism. I "reacted" more with a "how dare you say that about me, it's not NOT true!!" I really didn't change much, nor did I take it to heart, other than to pity myself because I was so misunderstood, OSIT.

 

[kenlee]

I think that when we think of ourselves as already conscious then the ego falls into a trap of self calming by thinking itself already conscious. I think the basis of this self calming is having our chemical emotions think for us and unconsciously equating the experience of these chemical emotions with conscious awareness and not being able to differentiate chemical emotions from real emotions.

I have noticed that, within myself, everything is mixed. The chemical emotions and the situation that may have triggered it can drive my thinking at any moment and I’ll get totally lost in that situation.

Then at another moment I may make an effort to look at something from as many angles or points of reference as possible, not letting my chemistry and/or the situation overwhelm my thinking and I’ll study a given situation using constant observation of my inner states, observing what’s going on around me, making efforts to observe how I’m affecting others and noticing how they are affecting me, questioning my own subjective interpretations of these observations, questioning my own sincerity on how much I really want to get to the truth of the situation, making efforts to put myself in the other persons place and feel what they may be feeling, imagining how they might be seeing me through their own eyes (not that I’m accurate on this but I’ll use my imagination to make this effort), and then if I continuously make this effort then something new may enter into my consciousness and I might see and then feel for this person or situation in a different way then before and then maybe, with this new knowledge “ever present” in my awareness (at least for a moment), this might give me that momentary victory to be able to act differently in that situation, in that moment, and to actually separate myself from my habitual reactions and, maybe, be able to externally consider another person.

But what I find to be my “enemy” in all this is when I’m feeling comfortable with myself and then stop the inner questioning/observing since I don't see the need to do it and this can go on for long periods of time where I fall into a kind of trap where my chemistry will do the thinking for me. The hormones will come first, then comes the thinking, instead of the other way around.

Then in this self calmed state I believe myself to be conscious and “self remembering,” but actually it's more like an identification with a thought, an identification with a mental picture image of myself as being conscious, reinforced by chemical emotions, and I’m not self remembering or observing myself at all but it’s really the exercise itself of self remembering, and this image of myself as being conscious, that my thinking brain is really identified with.

But I think this self observation and self remembering has to be done with all three centers and each center has its own language and one must learn these languages and each center has to be taught to participate in this self remembering as a totality. From that, then a space between ourselves and our ”self” opens up so we can see ourselves within this inner separation but it really has to be always present (something to keep striving for) and I think it really has to be like a monkey on our backs, always in front of us and ever present because once the guard is let down then its very easy to get trapped by our own machine.

 

[okiron]

Saw something today.....
I saw my own energy being drained by petty tyrants (co-worker;twins). The more they drained me, the more energized and happy they became! And I, on the other hand, being so drained projected sometype of aura around me. It's almost as if, I unconsciously set out to prey on others! It showed me, though the effects I had on the people I had business transaction with! Their facial and poster showed, they were afraid of me or so it appeared to me that way. Even the sound in their voices sounded meekly and they would avoid eye contact with me as much as possible by looking away or looking downward. So, in the exchange they would refuse my business offer (politely i might add) and than, they would leave in such haste. There must have been like four transaction all the same scenario!
And what befuddles me, is that somepart of me observed this and recognized it and made a mental note, what really was going on but I didn't know what that might be at the time. Until later this evening I knew. I WAS FEEDING OFF OF OTHERS! Eeeeks!
I've forgotten about the feeding dynamics....I was so caught up in the inner movements of my centers, that I lost valuable observation.
"The predator's mind is no easy task in observing it in oneself."
okiron

 

[Laura]

Saw something today.....
I saw my own energy being drained by petty tyrants (co-worker;twins). The more they drained me, the more energized and happy they became! And I, on the other hand, being so drained projected sometype of aura around me. It's almost as if, I unconsciously set out to prey on others! It showed me, though the effects I had on the people I had business transaction with! Their facial and poster showed, they were afraid of me or so it appeared to me that way. Even the sound in their voices sounded meekly and they would avoid eye contact with me as much as possible by looking away or looking downward. So, in the exchange they would refuse my business offer (politely i might add) and than, they would leave in such haste. There must have been like four transaction all the same scenario!
And what befuddles me, is that somepart of me observed this and recognized it and made a mental note, what really was going on but I didn't know what that might be at the time. Until later this evening I knew. I WAS FEEDING OFF OF OTHERS! Eeeeks!
I've forgotten about the feeding dynamics....I was so caught up in the inner movements of my centers, that I lost valuable observation.
"The predator's mind is no easy task in observing it in oneself."
okiron

Can you give some specific examples of what you mean? Like things you said and did and things the others said and did?