Trany Rapper - Heaven
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Cyre2067
The Living Force
Shijing said:
Thanks Shijing, the mirror process definitely hurts, but it's healthy in that it's not really 'me' that hurts but all the pseudo-me that has been built up over the years. The real me appreciates it, even while observing all the little I's in my head go off. It's a unique experience, one I've only been able to accept after study here with this most excellent group of people. Anart, Neema and Domi's posts all brought a glimmer of tears to my eyes, and I feel positively horrible about posting that video here - all is lessons indeed.
Laura said:
I read a few of them, not sure if I caught them all. I'll read the rest tonight. Thanks for the Links Guys.
Hey Norma, I did catch that one, and the one that preceded it. Both Excellent works. I totally failed in making the connection between the 'classic art' Darkmoon describes being twisted and how the same theme is present in all media. It was a little over-the-top in the movie Antichrist, which I only discussed here, there was no way I was going to actually watch it, and so the connection was made. For some reason it slipped by when it comes to foul language, as I mentioned previously, it was difficult for me to actually 'hear' it as foul in the context of a rap video and I found it hilarious.
Hey Pete, the aside about your nephew is interesting, and I can totally relate. Our teenager years are some of the toughest, at least they were for me, so any coping mechanism that lets you survive is useful. There were times I thought about suicide and even worse, pondered pulling a columbine (although that was before school shootings became a trend) - though luckily I had a good group of friends who kept me level when other kids made it their jobs to harass me daily. At least you are aware of his behavior and are concerned. My parents, teachers, etc were oblivious and as such I had no real guidance other then peers and the values I took from fiction. I'm sure he'll come around when he's ready.
Hi Megan,
Megan said:
Now that you bring it up, we were quite selfish as we 'entertained' ourselves. Sometimes, mostly girls who hung out with us, wouldn't sit with us for stretches at a time because they couldn't tolerate the language/discussion. We were causing other people 'psychic pain' by being so raunchy and we thought there was something weird with them because they didn't think it was funny. Odd how these experiences shape us, and we have no idea until much later, and after much work - then again, if this reality is projected and crafted as an STS feeding mechanism it makes sense. To be clear, I'm not trying to excuse the behavior, only reflect upon it and understand it as a means to uproot and dispel it.
Megan said:
I was using spellbinders as a comparison, to show how emotional hooks embedded and triggered later. As I was programmed to laugh at such filth in my youth, I continued to tolerate it up to the present in certain contexts which were 'away from adults' - thinking such thing were 'funny' because of a social mileu I had accepted as a teenager. Though that was merely my attempt at understanding, and I agree, it does seem horribly insufficient even if it may be accurate.
If I understand your question correctly, you want to know what I thought was funny? It was a combination of the language being so, uhm, slick, the rhyming in other words and the totally outlandish appearance of the rapper herself.
samy said:
I wonder samy if you have some of the same programming I did/do. That's why I watched/posted the video - because I thought it was funny. This is probably why the soldier's at Abu Gharib took pictures of tortured Iraqi's - They thought it was funny. What seems to be the case is that we are programmed to deny our essential reaction, to substitute our true feelings with false ones so that we gain approval in a specific social context. In my case it was a lunch table of peers, in Iraq it was in an Army unit. The pattern is the same even in different contexts, a saying I've come to use - same, same, but different.
Hey Al, also glad to see you post. :)
Exactly, the default here is STS, the default is to let someone(thing) else choose for you. In order to make a choice you have to learn in order to understand alternatives and then act on them if you so desire.
It is amazing how something so perverse (like the video I posted and my attitude towards it) can be transmuted by the moderators of the forum into something useful and valuable. Lead into gold indeed.
G
Gertrudes
Guest
Hey Puck,
I'm late in this thread but have been following it with interest, it brought up something very relevant which you've neatly summarized here:
It really takes re evaluating everything we learned to take as normal. It is mind boggling the amount of things we learn not to listen, we learn not to see, we learn not to feel. A gradual process of de-sensitization.
I see it as if getting hit by something in the same spot for a prolonged period of time until the skin hardens and you can no longer feel it. You're still being hit, you've just lost your sensitivity and now have a big lump of numb, hardened skin as a receptor. It can't surely transmit much of a feedback, since it doesn't feel anything.
To be able to choose, we've got to know our choices, and to know them, we need to be able to see, listen and feel clearly, no hardened skin will do. This is a group effort, we are all learning how to sensitise ourselves.
This thread is a good wake up call on how to be continuously vigilant about what we take as "food".
Hope that cold vanishes soon!
I'm late in this thread but have been following it with interest, it brought up something very relevant which you've neatly summarized here:
Puck said:
It really takes re evaluating everything we learned to take as normal. It is mind boggling the amount of things we learn not to listen, we learn not to see, we learn not to feel. A gradual process of de-sensitization.
I see it as if getting hit by something in the same spot for a prolonged period of time until the skin hardens and you can no longer feel it. You're still being hit, you've just lost your sensitivity and now have a big lump of numb, hardened skin as a receptor. It can't surely transmit much of a feedback, since it doesn't feel anything.
To be able to choose, we've got to know our choices, and to know them, we need to be able to see, listen and feel clearly, no hardened skin will do. This is a group effort, we are all learning how to sensitise ourselves.
This thread is a good wake up call on how to be continuously vigilant about what we take as "food".
Hope that cold vanishes soon!
samii
Jedi
Puck said:
Hi Puck
Actually I have the same programming but I will not equate it with the example you gave above. You see if you find something funny at the expense of the suffering of someone else, than that’s considered pathocratic. Just like you mentioned about the soldier's at Abu Gharib having fun while taking pictures of tortured Iraqi's. However, there was no suffering in this video I presume, so if you have decided not to post the video but watch it yourself then no harm would have been done. It will only be a case of indulging your little I’s with illusory pleasures, which is another discussion. Now the only harm came when you decided to share this video with others in this forum, that’s why the first response you got from Anart was:
“why did you think this was appropriate material for this forum? It is not.”
and
“Puck, it is your life - if this video is indicative of the environment you choose to spend it in, that is your choice, but please understand that this is not the place for it.”
As you can see, this forum is not for indulging our little I’s with illusory pleasures. It is like posting the following comments on other forums like:
Forum about cars and automobiles: “I decided to walk to work because I hate causing pollution with my car”
Forum about computers hardware/software: “I threw my PC out the window because it made me feel so good”
Forum about health/well-being: "I bought a pack of cigarettes today, I'm going to light one up tonight"
The above comments are personal choices but they were not appropriate for that forum.
John G
The Living Force
There's probably some slippery slope thing here too in that putting your money into "illusory pleasures" and laughing at it with like-minded people is still propagating it even if it never shows up at a place like this forum. As a recent first time mirroree, I can say it's not fun losing your illusion of co-linearity even for small things that aren't always as small as they may seem (or at least looking at them hasn't been as easy as I would have thought).samy said:
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
samy said:
I think he's simply saying that if we ignore or hide those unexamined aspects of ourselves, then we can fall into an illusion of being completely colinear with others, since there are aspects we keep to ourselves, sacrosanct, hidden or at least unexamined. These aspects tend to rule our behavior from behind the scenes so when it is pointed out to us that they exist and are inharmonious, contrary or even damaging, it can shatter that illusory feeling of colinearity. The crux, though, is that when these aspects are examined, understood and removed, if necessary, the colinearity actually increases - and that can't happen without the shattering of the initial illusion. Hopefully I've not confused the issue more.
In short, it can feel bad in the moment and can lead to great benefit in the long run.
Very Very late on this thread. I did see the post headline when it first appeared , but for one of the first times ever i never clicked on it to see what it was all about.
Im pleased that the link was removed and for what should be obvious reasons. I had no reason to try and find out why it was offensive.
Call me a miserable so and so , but i do not find it funny to laugh at things that really should not be laughed at. In the last year or so i have had to come out and socialise with people on a larger scale than i have been used to in a long time. Amongst the people that i am meeting at a fas rate , are those who find no problem at laughing at some of the most offensive stuff i have ever come across , and yet they see it as normal.
I dont want to say any more than this , other than to say , people who generally find the kind of stuff im referring to as humorous , are not people i invite to my house or wish to have a longer communication with in general. Time is to short.
When it comes from fellow forum members i am completely shocked.
Im pleased that the link was removed and for what should be obvious reasons. I had no reason to try and find out why it was offensive.
Call me a miserable so and so , but i do not find it funny to laugh at things that really should not be laughed at. In the last year or so i have had to come out and socialise with people on a larger scale than i have been used to in a long time. Amongst the people that i am meeting at a fas rate , are those who find no problem at laughing at some of the most offensive stuff i have ever come across , and yet they see it as normal.
I dont want to say any more than this , other than to say , people who generally find the kind of stuff im referring to as humorous , are not people i invite to my house or wish to have a longer communication with in general. Time is to short.
When it comes from fellow forum members i am completely shocked.
I think that there is another issue here in posting a video of a transvestite and laughing at it. The issue is that you are laughing at someone who is possibly displaying evidence of psychological issues. While the person themselves may not admit to any such issues, that doesn't mean that they are not there. I am not saying that all transvestites are transvestites due to psychological issues, and here I would suggest childhood trauma issues, but it is a possibility, as is the case with anyone who seems to be over-identified with their sexuality. At least that is how it seems to me.
mcb
The Living Force
There is a lot to "laugh" about in the video. The words and the pictures are intentionally extreme, and there is much to react to. Having spent a few years within the trans community, I had a quite variety of reactions myself, although I don't think there was anything especially new or unusual here. I think what bothers me the most is that things of this nature tend to fuel fear of and hatred toward transpeople, who have enough problems to deal with already.Perceval said:
Personally, I see the video as parody, an exaggerated depiction of "tranny prostitutes" (specifically transsexual prostitutes--not cross dressers/transvestites). I never had direct contact with this facet of the trans community, but I notice that many of the things I see in the video remind me of things I have had much contact with, and things I have done myself (things that I view very positively). In other words, it associates one thing (prostitution) with something else (a wide variety of gender issues), promoting confusion and prejudice. This video is not something I would have wanted to use to help friends and coworkers understand my gender issues, to say the very least. I don't think that you should draw any direct conclusions about transvestites or anybody else from watching this video. It's theatre. It's exaggerated. About the only thing I can view directly in the video is my own prejudices.
The trans community is "targeted," and you can find many, many issues within it; many walking wounded. Yes, there can be huge childhood trauma issues, but not necessarily what you would think. This hasn't been well studied, but it is apparent to me that what often happens is a child, even a very young child, begins to display gender-variant behavior and is then abused at home, emotionally, physically, and/or sexually, as a consequence of that behavior. There are, not too surprisingly, psychopathic "authority figures" that actually advise parents to do things that traumatize their gender variant children, "for their own good."
While there seems to have always been naturally occurring gender variance, another phenomenon is the effect of gender-bending environmental chemicals (especially synthetic hormones) on modern humans. And on top of that there was DES, a powerful endocrine disruptor (a synthetic estrogen) that was sometimes prescribed to pregnant women for many years beginning in the late 1940s and continuing in the US into the early 70s. Nobody really knows how much exposure there was, or what the effects really were. There were few studies and the ones that were done were small and inconclusive. To complicate matters even further, the effects of DES depend on the dose and exactly when during prenatal development the exposure occurred. Each person affected can have different symptoms.
Many gender variant people have been forced to hide, and to present as something they are not. Quite apart from childhood trauma, this hiding behavior has many consequences of its own, and I would say that the behavior of cross-dressers/transvestites has a lot to do with this, and it is an issue for transsexuals as well. This has little if anything to do with prostitution, and this is where the video in question can be very misleading.
The actual issue of transsexual prostitution is something I don't know much about. What I do know (from very personal experience) is that gender transition and surgery are expensive, and a lot of people that want it can't afford it, especially when they are young. I am told that some of them turn to theft and prostitution to pay for it. What bothers me about this, to a degree, is that while I have known a good many transsexuals, I have never known anyone that turned to theft or prostitution to pay for transition. I have met some very unusual people, though, that seemed to be dealing with a lot more than just gender identity issues.
One thing that is clear to me is that when most people laugh at a video like this, they have little or no idea what lies behind it.
truth seeker
The Living Force
I just really, really wanted to thank you for your post, Megan. I had a question in my mind for quite some time now, but wasn't quite sure how to phrase it. You may have answered it with your post - I'll reread it a few more times.
I've understood for quite some time now the difference between transgendered people and transvestites (or at least think I do). My current understanding of transgendered people is that they (for many reasons) feel that they are born the "wrong" sex and would feel more comfortable if their physical appearance matched what thy feel inside. Is this correct? My current understanding of transvestites is that this group is basically satisfied as their physical appearance matches how they feel, but rather like to play a "role" sometimes for lack of a better word. Either that, or this is the step that occurs before someone who is transgendered goes through before undergoing the operation. This may explain in part why transgendered people tend to dress in a more conservative way (as an attempt to fit into society?) rather than the more sexual clothing that seems to be favored by transsexuals.
Unfortunately the two do seem to get confused in society as it's the transvestites that garner more attention because of behavior or style of clothing. It's also unfortunate that people don't take the time to find out more about people so they can come to an understanding.
I had the opportunity to see the video before it was pulled, but chose not to for the same reasons that I would not like to see a video of someone in blackface or any other kind of stereotype.
My question was always why the oversexualized dress? I understand you don't have much experience with this community and therefore probably cannot answer my question, but maybe someone else can. It may have something to do with the ponerization of society and the sexualization of women. As a woman, I have felt insulted by the manner of dress that what you term transsexual prostitutes exhibit as it is really a caricature of what a woman really is.
It's interesting to me how the suppression of one's creative energy (not just in the artistic sense, but also the emotional sense) can result in someone dressing as a transsexual prostitute to relieve this societal pressure if that makes sense.
I also appreciate your distinction of the words transsexual prostitutes versus cross dressers/transvestites. My understanding concerning that was that the term cross dressers more specifically addressed people who would also sometimes dress in clothing deemed by society as being for the opposite sex. I didn't think of it so much as a lifestyle but rather as something someone did as a guilty pleasure - sort of like eating ice cream when on a diet. I now see that this was an oversimplification. Thanks for that.
Please feel free to correct me on anything.
I've understood for quite some time now the difference between transgendered people and transvestites (or at least think I do). My current understanding of transgendered people is that they (for many reasons) feel that they are born the "wrong" sex and would feel more comfortable if their physical appearance matched what thy feel inside. Is this correct? My current understanding of transvestites is that this group is basically satisfied as their physical appearance matches how they feel, but rather like to play a "role" sometimes for lack of a better word. Either that, or this is the step that occurs before someone who is transgendered goes through before undergoing the operation. This may explain in part why transgendered people tend to dress in a more conservative way (as an attempt to fit into society?) rather than the more sexual clothing that seems to be favored by transsexuals.
Unfortunately the two do seem to get confused in society as it's the transvestites that garner more attention because of behavior or style of clothing. It's also unfortunate that people don't take the time to find out more about people so they can come to an understanding.
I had the opportunity to see the video before it was pulled, but chose not to for the same reasons that I would not like to see a video of someone in blackface or any other kind of stereotype.
My question was always why the oversexualized dress? I understand you don't have much experience with this community and therefore probably cannot answer my question, but maybe someone else can. It may have something to do with the ponerization of society and the sexualization of women. As a woman, I have felt insulted by the manner of dress that what you term transsexual prostitutes exhibit as it is really a caricature of what a woman really is.
It's interesting to me how the suppression of one's creative energy (not just in the artistic sense, but also the emotional sense) can result in someone dressing as a transsexual prostitute to relieve this societal pressure if that makes sense.
I also appreciate your distinction of the words transsexual prostitutes versus cross dressers/transvestites. My understanding concerning that was that the term cross dressers more specifically addressed people who would also sometimes dress in clothing deemed by society as being for the opposite sex. I didn't think of it so much as a lifestyle but rather as something someone did as a guilty pleasure - sort of like eating ice cream when on a diet. I now see that this was an oversimplification. Thanks for that.
Please feel free to correct me on anything.
I could be wrong, but I wonder if a reason for this rebellion is because deep inside kids feel that something is horribly wrong and that they must rebel or perish? So they rebel, but sadly their rebellion is misguided, and in fact, it is guided by the very same pathocracy against which they thought they were rebelling, and the energy of their rebellion is tragically used to mess their minds and emotions up even more, to cement the pathocracy's hold over their minds and lead them into a ridiculous amount of damaging A influences. It really is so sad. I imagine if the FOTCM principles were the guiding principles of the planet, if adults and kids interacted without any ponerization and in a truly loving and understanding way, there would be no "teenage rebellion" stage. Instead, I'd think the energy that is now channeled to "rebel" might actually be an explosion of creativity and accelerated inner development instead.Nienna Eluch said:
Historically, national rebellions/revolutions have been guided by the same pathocracy that triggered the rebellion to begin with, which made them have no effect. The personal rebellion is just as "managed" as a national one.
I'd think this would make you take offense at someone putting a video of a transvestite just to laugh at it, instead you had the opposite reaction to defend it, which I thought was odd.Deedlet said:
knowledge_of_self
The Living Force
SAO said:
Just to clarify SAO, I wasn't defending the video. I was defending puck (and his programs). I didn't even see the video and had no idea what it was about- Other than the title "Trany Rapper-Heaven". Which i thought could be a creative video of a transvestite individual creatively expressing themselves through rap. My programs assumed maybe the mods just didn't like transvestite videos. I started running programs because I felt Laura & mods were not just addressing Puck (and his programs) but everyone else including me. Which comes from my own narcissistic programing of "everyone is out to get you- they are covertly talking about you".
Basically, my programs were defending puck's programs. I know this isn't any better than actually defending the video but that's what it was.
I was in such auto mode that I didn't even stop to think that this thread was in "Tickle Me". Suggesting that we should all have a laugh at this transvestite's expense. Again, showing that I wasn't thinking just running programs.
Megan said:
My transsexual friend wants to get the operation very bad- but apparently it costs around $18-20,000 for the entire operation + hormones. This is a lot of money- so he's started to save up and has been for many years. He recently told his mom that he wants to become female and they are going to therapy together. His dad doesn't know yet and probably wont for a very long time because of the acceptance issue. I can see how some people would turn to such deeds as theft or prostitution to get the money to pay for their operation because for some people the operation is VERY important. I don't think my friend will ever turn to such deeds but it's very sad that some people do.
mcb
The Living Force
You are welcome. My writing was a little hurried (as usual); I would be glad to clarify anything at all.truth seeker said:
I think that the real situation is closer to a continuum. People don't fit into the categories very well, whatever categories we come up with. A cross-dressing husband may, for example, make it very clear to his wife that he is completely satisfied the way he is and he has no interest in transitioning, and yet when I (a transsexual) talk with him privately, he may tell a different story of how he can't transition because of his family commitments and how he isn't sure what he would do if it weren't for that. I have no idea how often this is the case, but I know that it is not "rare" as some cross-dressers claim. And I did not make up my example.
It is true that some people cross-dress their entire lives while others are driven to transition. For some, transition includes surgery while for others it does not. The word "transgender" was originally coined to describe people who cross-dress full time but do not seek surgery. Now it is used so many different ways that it ceases to mean very much.
Whether a person identifies as a cross-dresser (CD), transgender (TG), or transsexual (TS), or any other term they may come up with doesn't seem to say much about how they will dress. I used to think that cross-dressers that did not have families tended to dress more provocatively but it turned out that I just hadn't yet seen a wide enough variety of TSs.
Transsexuals are people that want to change their sex. There are clearly different varieties of TSs, and I couldn't begin to categorize them. I can tell you a little about my own feelings, but i can't say that I am at all typical because I have a congenital hormone imbalance and I never experienced high testosterone levels or a normal puberty. Or a desire to dress provocatively. I did want to be a girl from an early age, and it wasn't allowed and I could not talk about it with anyone. I imagined that once I grew up and left home, I could do whatever I wanted.
Unfortunately I was also an only child and rather isolated (an Air Force brat) and no one ever told me that boys and girls were physically different. I figured it out at around 12 years old and realized that my plan was not going to work. 45 years later I finally solved the problem. Because of that long delay I am no more a "typical" woman now that I was a "typical" male before. Not only was I not socialized as a woman (or a man), but I had also been doing esoteric work for 26 years. I chose the gender role that worked better for me (after trying both) and that enabled me to function socially. A male role did not work well for me at all and I was very much shut down until I transitioned.
Because of my esoteric training, I knew that I had alternatives to transitioning and surgery but, frankly, I thought this would be the more interesting set of lessons (and I was not disappointed). Also, partly because of my age, I wasn't sure that I would live long enough to work through all of the issues that I would have to deal with if I didn't transition. I knew from my own research that transition offered a kind of shortcut through a lot of that and I couldn't see any reason not to take advantage of it. And it worked. Why? I have no idea. But it has worked similarly for lots of people in situations not unlike my own.
That is part of my story. Every story is different, although all of the TS stories I have heard seem to have been put together from the same shopping list. I don't know what creates the drive to transition, but I know that a certain fraction of people have been driven this way for a very long time, from long before modern surgical methods were available. A lot of them used to die trying. It is quite a drive. In some cultures, gender roles were seen as something you could choose quite apart from your sex. I am not sure how well that worked, though. In my culture and era, transition and surgery are the well-traveled and tested path.
I think your observations above are good. The oversexualized dressing really bugs me as well, and I am still trying to understand it and my reaction to it. It's not the prostitutes that bug me. They are, after all, prostitutes. It's all the others.
There are other people whose motivation is sex but not sex for money, and I am pretty sure they dress the way they do because it helps them find what they are looking for. Beyond that, when you have men who really do think like men dressing like women, I suppose they dress according to what appeals to them as men. Among male-to-female transsexuals that have strong female sensitivities I do not see it. I also see more conservative dressing among male cross-dressers that have families and are "out" to them. This may not necessarily be their preference, but it is a compromise that works.
Another thing that I can say from experience is that when you are forced for a very long time to hide your own self and present a role that is not you, it warps your thinking. I am not going to offer personal details, but there were certain ways that I behaved that arose out of all that hiding. Once I stopped hiding, I ceased to behave in those ways. A lot of these people are trapped in a perpetual state of at least partial hiding, and the behavior you see that is hard to understand may be a side effect of that hiding.
Obviously, being forced to present a role that isn't "you" is not a problem that is unique to gender-variant people. Everyone has this problem, although maybe not always to the same degree. Who really fits well into a "male role" or a "female role?" These expected roles are problematic even for people with ordinary gender identity. And it may very well be that everyone exhibits "strange" behavior as a result. If you really want to understand this, look for examples in your own life.
I found cross-dressers to be more complex in some ways than TSs. With TSs you can kind of understand what is going on if you realize that we have a biological gender identity and that it is truly switched in some people. Since nobody knows how to reverse gender identity but there are ways to somewhat effectively change one's sex, it's not too surprising (to me, anyway, having done it) that such people would sometimes change their sex.
Cross-dressers are much harder to understand. As a group, they tend to have more fun. But deeper down, there are all kinds of things going on. Some are closet transsexuals but others are not. And yet they may feel a powerful compulsion to switch gender roles at least part of the time, sometimes at great personal risk. Some of them dress in ways that we might find offensive, and yet some of those simply don't understand what they are doing and when they eventually do come to understand it they change their behavior.
We have a group of cross-dressers here locally that have formed a club. They have a social every month. They contract with a hotel for a ballroom and they are not hidden; they are right there for people to see. They help their members with dressing appropriately. I know some of the people that started it, and I encouraged them to welcome transsexuals as well. And they did, in spite of the local wisdom that that doesn't work. And of course it works. They have all sorts of other people dropping in from out of town. Everything imaginable on the gender identity continuum. I am not involved any longer myself, but I saw enough while I was there to realize just how complex and varied these people are. I think we could use more people like this.
