Turkey shot down Russian bomber over Syria

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Laura said:
un chien anadolu said:
The Turkmen card which Turkish Government and Erdogan playing to disgrace Russia's operations in Syria and to legitimize downing of the Russian jet is a big lie :

- According to trustable, objective Turkish sources who know the area well and have almost daily contact to the people located there; in the mountainous region where Russia is bombing there are no Turkmen civilians left. Years ago, after the war in Syria started they either migrated to South of Syria or to Turkey. There are some Turkmen young men in Nusra front and similar terrorist organizations, but that's all. There may be also some Turkmen civilian villages left, with a few hundreds of population which are armed to defend their villages against invaders, but they are not in the area that Russia is bombing.

- Being sensitive about Turkmens in Syria and naming this topic as a red line is another big lie to gain public support for aggression against Syria and Russia. In June-July 2014 ISIS killed thousands of Turkmen, raped the Turkmen women or sold them as slaves in Northern Iraq. But the Turkish government did nothing to protect them. They didn't even mentioned about this slaughter which was happening in front of them. Oh wait, maybe because they were Shiite Turkmens.

- Assad and Syrian regime being oppressive against Turkmen population is another lie. The first president of Syria after the independence in 1946 was a Turkmen: Sükrü Kuvvetli, even his name is Turkish. There have been many other Turkmen in high level positions in Syrian government until today. Even when the war started the Chief of Army was a Sunni Turkmen appointed by Assad, Hasan Turkmani who was killed in 2012 by Free Syrian Army a.k.a Erdogan's good boys.

You should explain this to a nutcase who keeps posting on my FB wall about how wonderful Erdogan is and how evil Putin is. See: https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153805276434679?comment_id=10153807607474679

and https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153805962264679?comment_id=10153807415584679

https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153806248394679?comment_id=10153807428079679

https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153807439319679?comment_id=10153807726639679

https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153807439319679?comment_id=10153807898734679

etc etc.

Like you said she is either a nutcase or one of the so called Ak-trolls (paid shills by Erdogan's AKP).
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

un chien anadolu said:
Laura said:
You should explain this to a nutcase who keeps posting on my FB wall about how wonderful Erdogan is and how evil Putin is. See: https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153805276434679?comment_id=10153807607474679

and https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153805962264679?comment_id=10153807415584679

https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153806248394679?comment_id=10153807428079679

https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153807439319679?comment_id=10153807726639679

https://www.facebook.com/laura.knightjadczyk/posts/10153807439319679?comment_id=10153807898734679

etc etc.

Like you said she is either a nutcase or one of the so called Ak-trolls (paid shills by Erdogan's AKP).

Wow, that's one turkey stuffed with lots of crazy... If it's a troll, it's a really, really bad one!
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

First Turkey’s chief of intelligence that plain out openly speaks out in support of ISIS.

And Now Erdogan with this statement:

http://www.sott.net/article/307217-Not-me-Turkeys-Erdogan-says-Assad-regime-and-supporting-countries-provide-ISIS-weapons-and-finance

"If you are seeking the source of weaponry and financial power of Daesh, the first place to look is the Assad regime and countries that act with it,"


Is this all seriously meant as a comeback? What a bunch of clowns. It’s just so bad it can only do the real coalition on the war on terror a service.

The Russian authorities should keep speaking the truth so openly. If this is what they receive in return. Than please continue



Erdogan is playing the EU with his refugee card by assuring Turkey will shelter most of them for a time.

He played the US by attempting to buy China made missiles. Got a sweet deal out of it by the US in return for canceling that.

He kept the Turkish Stream with Russia on hold, likely as leverage for the US and Russia to come up with better deals that could benefit his version of Turkey. To see what they had to offer.

He is in cahoots with ISIS. And most of all, he attacked Russia !!!

He is playing such a dangerous game and is totally no match. And just like him, his companions are back stabbers of the first order whenever its suits them.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Russian Warplanes Target Turkish Weapons Convoy in Syria
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940905000392

The airstrikes hit the trucks which were carrying weapons from Turkey to the Takfiri terrorists fighting in Syria near Azaz town in Aleppo on Wednesday.

Earlier on Wednesday, sources said the Syrian Army and its allies have significantly advanced against the ISIL militants in the Eastern part of Aleppo province and have won back the important Humaymah hilltop.

Humaymah al-Kabeera is strategically located to the East of the Kuweires Military Airport and to the West of the ISIL stronghold of Deir Hafer.

The Aleppo-Raqqa highway is passing through the middle of Humaymah al-Kabeera town.


Shoot Down of Russian Plane Could 'Finish' Turkey's Erdogan Politically
http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151125/1030736863/shoot-down-su-24-political-consequences.html

After the plane was downed, one pilot –Lt. Col Oleg Peshkov, was killed by armed militants as he parachuted to the ground. His co-pilot, Cap. Konstantin Murahtin, was rescued and returned to Hmeymim Airbase in Latakia. A second Russian serviceman, Naval Infantry soldier Alexandr Pozynich, was killed in the course of the operation to rescue the surviving pilot.

With Russian President Vladimir Putin calling the attack "a stab in the back" and saying that Russia will be making use of "all security options," experts have been contemplating what other steps, both military and political, Russia might take to respond to the provocation.

Gevorg Mirzayan, geopolitical analyst at Russian business and analysis magazine Expert.ru, believes that whatever steps it ends up taking, Moscow must respond to the crisis "symmetrically."

Mirzayan explained that that the attack was "not just a demonstration of the destruction of a Russian airplane by a NATO member; it is a demonstration of destruction on the eve of a scheduled meeting of a Russian-Turkish group on strategic dialogue, which was to be attended by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov."

"Thus," the analyst explained, "Ankara has factually shown that it is not counting on any dialogue with Moscow, and is actually changing its vector of relations with Russia from one of cooperation to one of confrontation. And this means that Russia must respond within the framework of this confrontational logic."

In Mirzayan's view, the "most obvious response would be one which is symmetrical. It is no secret that Turkish planes regularly enter Syrian territory to bomb the Kurds. Perhaps it would be proper now to see some of these aircraft falling out of the sky, shot down by air defense facilities provided by Moscow, or even Russian fighters charged with protecting Syrian airspace."

Then, according to Mirzayan, there is the economic option. With Egypt effectively closed to Russian tourists following the downing of the Russian Airbus over Sinai last month, Turkish businesses in the tourism sector had hoped for increasing their incomes from Russian tourists.

"Turkey is in a very difficult situation geopolitically."

"Relations with the EU have been spoiled, the Americans are ready to support the Syrian Kurds (up to and including, according to some experts, Ankara's nightmare scenario: the establishment of a Syrian Kurdistan), relations with Syria are beat up, and Turkish-Iranian relations have been ruined. In this situation," the expert notes, "a conflict with Russia may mean real political isolation for Turkey, and may very well lead to serious political consequences for the president."


Units of the U.S. army entered Syria from Turkey
http://fortruss.blogspot.ru/2015/11/units-of-us-army-entered-syria-from.html

50 soldiers of the U.S. army crossed the border of Syria from Turkey and occupied the Syrian town of Ein al-Arab. It was reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the channel "al-Mayadeen". According to the Agency, the military moved past a checkpoint on the Turkish-Syrian border.

"About 50 soldiers and officers of the American army arrived in Ein al-Arab to support the Kurds in the fight against ISIS", — stated in the message.

According to TV, the soldiers of the U.S. army crossed the Turkish-Syrian border through the checkpoint "BINAR", some soldiers had reached the town of Kamishli.


Russian FM Wants to Know If US Greenlighted Turkish Ambush of Su-24 Warplane
http://russia-insider.com/en/sergej-lavrov-wants-know-if-turkey-asked-us-permission-shoot/ri11455

Sergei Lavrov Wednesday made some important statements regarding the chain of events occurred in the SU-24 downing and after witnessing the immediate deployment into service, for a defensive purpose, of the S-400 complex and Moskva, we now witness the first steps of the diplomatic effort made by Moscow to understand exactly what happened.

First he said:

“Some members of the coalition, including those providing their combat planes for strikes against Iraq and Syria have confided to us the planes involved were of US manufacture and the Americans normally request US permission for such operations”

Then Lavrov went even further posing a direct question:

“As far as I understand, our plane was downed by a US-made F-16. It remains to be seen whether the US requirement is applicable to Turkey, and if it is, I would like to know if Turkey had asked the United States for permission to send its planes on a combat mission and to shoot down a plane, albeit probably an identified one, over Syrian territory.”

The implications posed by Lavrov's doubts are important and should not be underestimated by western powers. They directly call into question the possible liability of the USA in Ankara's military action and If this were to be the case, the SU-24 downing would take quite a different twist.


Top U.S. Air Defense Commander: Turkey’s Shootdown of Russian Jet “Had to Be PRE-PLANNED” (video)
http://investmentwatchblog.com/top-u-s-air-defense-commander-turkeys-shootdown-of-russian-jet-had-to-be-pre-planned/

Lt. General Tom McInerney is an expert on handling threats from fighter jets.

In his role as Norad commander for Alaska, McInerney dealt with more Russian fighter jet incursions (which he calls “bear penetrations”) than anyone else in the world.

So McInerney knows how to tell innocent from hostile incursions by foreign fighter jets, standard rules of engagement of foreign fighter jets, how to read radar tracks, and the other things he would need to know to form an informed opinion about the shootdown of a foreign jet.

Yesterday, McInerney told Fox News – much to the surprise of the reporter interviewing him – that assuming the Turkish version of the flight path of the Russian jet is accurate, Russia wasn’t threatening Turkey, and that Turkey’s shoot down of the Russian jet “had to be pre-planned”, as the jet wasn’t in Turkish air space long enough for anything other than a premeditated attack to have brought it down: (video)

McInerney is right … especially given that a U.S. official told Reuters that the Russian jet was inside of Syria when it was shot down:

The United States believes that the Russian jet shot down by Turkey on Tuesday was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a U.S. official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.


Turkey Downs Russian Fighter to Draw NATO and US Deeper into Syrian Quagmire
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/turkey-downs-russian-fighter-to-draw-nato-and-us-deeper-into-syrian-quagmire/

The downing of the Su-24 fighter jet is part of a broader plan by the administration of Turkish President Tayyip Recep Erdogan to topple the secular government of Syrian President Bashar al Assad and to establish “safe zones” on the Syrian side of the Turkish-Syrian border. Erdogan needs the safe zones to provide a sanctuary for the militant extremists who are the footsoldiers in his war against Syria. The downing of the Russian fighter is a desperate attempt by Erdogan to incite a reaction from Russia that will draw either NATO or the United States deeper into a conflict which has dragged on for 4 and a half years and killed 250,000 people.


Syrian FM: Killing of Russian pilot in Syria amounts to war crime (video)
http://investmentwatchblog.com/syrian-fm-killing-of-russian-pilot-in-syria-amounts-to-war-crime/

Syria’s foreign minister has backed Russia in its fight against terrorism and accused Turkey of supporting terrorist groups on Syrian soil.


Ankara Demands Arrest of Journalists for Publishing Weapon Convoy to Syria
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151126/1030813680/turkey-photos-convoy-journalists.html

A Turkish prosecutor has requested an Istanbul court to arrest Cumhuriyet newspaper Editor-in-Chief Can Dundar and the daily’s Ankara representative Erdem Gul on charges of espionage and treason after the outlet published photos of intelligence trucks with weapons bound for Syria, local media reported Thursday.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Earlier in the day, both journalists went to Istanbul Courthouse to testify after being summoned there.

"We came here to defend journalism. We came here to defend the right of the public to obtain the news and their right to know if their government is feeding them lies. We came here to show and to prove that governments cannot engage in illegal activity and to defend this," Dundar told reporters as quoted by Today’s Zaman.

The article and footage released by Cumhuriyet on May 29 claimed that the trucks were carrying containers with artillery shells, machine gun rounds, and mortar shells to Syrian rebels fighting against the government forces.

Ankara refuted the media reports, insisting that the vehicles were delivering aid to Syrian Turkmens and the allegations were nothing but insinuations.


Turkish Government Caught Helping ISIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHyKFpEl95w

Published on Jul 29, 2015

Cenk Uygur (host of The Young Turks) discusses a recent report of Turkish officials helping ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Cenk breaks down the evidence that Turkey turned a blind eye to the vast smuggling networks and may have even cooperated.

Fixed Bolding
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Perceval said:
angelburst29 said:
Russian FM Wants to Know If US Greenlighted Turkish Ambush of Su-24 Warplane

More than green lighted, I tend to think that the US was responsible for the shoot down.

Always the last to know: Did Turkish government find out about shoot-down of Russian jet after the fact?

After reading the speculation laid in the article it seems like a plausible conclusion.
In addition, I think Turkey grounding its jets down today sort of falls in line with the above hypothesis. I mean, if somebody (psychos in power) wanted to provoke Russian attack on their own soil as to invoke that NATO article 5, wouldn't they be parading all day and night long with their jets along the border (but on Turkish side) so that Russians might loose it and shoot at them? I guess a plane up or down, same with human lives, for psychos doesn't mean much if anything, especially if that is the only "sacrifice" they need to make to get what they want, right? So, how come that they grounded all their planes along that border? One possible answer is because they do not want to give "somebody" another chance to make trouble for them.
Well, just a speculation, of course. :)
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Arrogant, Insolent Erdogan Says Russia Should Apologize to Turkey!
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/arrogant-insolent-erdogan-says-russia-should-apologize-turkey/ri11480

I think if there is a party that needs to apologize, it is not us,” Erdoğan said in an exclusive interview with CNN International on Nov. 26. “Those who violated our airspace are the ones who need to apologize. Our pilots and our armed forces, they simply fulfilled their duties, which consisted of responding to … violations of the rules of engagement. I think this is the essence.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Erdogan is playing dumb:

“Had we known it was a Russian plane we may have acted differently,” he said.

And this one is awesome too:

Sidestepping questions about whether he planned to apologise, the Turkish leader said Russia had failed to communicate its own data and that Putin had ignored his phone calls.

“We need to talk about what happened, but Putin has not returned my call,” he said.

_http://www.france24.com/en/20151126-exclusive-interview-erdogan-turkey-russian-putin-jet-syria-islamic-state

Poor Erdogan, he didn't know whose plane it was and was desperately trying to apologize, but "heartless" Putin rejected his call.

:cool2:
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria


The General Staff of Turkish Armed Forces made a recent announcement after a meeting.

Turkey’s top military council says channels of dialogue with Russia should be kept open

A statement released following the YAŞ meeting said the council agreed that “necessary measures should be taken to prevent any unwanted new negative situations between the armed forces of the two countries by keeping channels of diplomatic and military dialogue with Russia open.

_http://www.todayszaman.com/national_turkeys-top-military-council-says-channels-of-dialogue-with-russia-should-be-kept-open_405398.html


Either the military is giving a message to Erdogan that they won't play his games if he would escalate the situation further (it happened before) or a climate is being prepared for Erdogan's/Turkish Government's apology/back step.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Two journalists just got arrested half an hour ago, for covering the story about the MIT (Turkish intelligence) trucks loaded with weapons sent to Syria, early this year.

Daily Cumhuriyet Editor-in-Chief Can Dündar and the daily’s Ankara Bureau Chief Erdem Gül were arrested Nov. 26 due to a story about Turkish intelligence trucks bound for Syria in early 2014.

“We are accused of ‘spying.’ The president said [our action is] ‘treason.’ We are not traitors, spy, or heroes; we are journalists. What we have done here was a journalistic activity,” Dündar said before testifying to prosecutors Nov. 26.

“Of course this prosecution will help enlighten how these incidents took place, rather than how we covered this story.”

Dündar Gül were arrested on charges of being a member of an armed terrorist organization and espionage based on reports in daily Cumhuriyet regarding Syrian-bound trucks sent by the National Intelligence Agency (MİT).

Footage released by Cumhuriyet on May 29 reportedly showed gendarmerie and police officers opening crates on the back of trucks which contained what the daily described as weapons and ammunition sent to Syria by MİT in January 2014.


Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan filed an individual criminal complaint against Dündar and Cumhuriyet on June 2, claiming that the story “included some footage and information that are not factual” while saying the person “who wrote the story will pay a heavy price.

_http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/two-journalists-arrested-for-story-on-intelligence-trucks-bound-for-syria.aspx?pageID=517&nID=91722&NewsCatID=339
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

un chien anadolu said:
The General Staff of Turkish Armed Forces made a recent announcement after a meeting.

Turkey’s top military council says channels of dialogue with Russia should be kept open

A statement released following the YAŞ meeting said the council agreed that “necessary measures should be taken to prevent any unwanted new negative situations between the armed forces of the two countries by keeping channels of diplomatic and military dialogue with Russia open.

_http://www.todayszaman.com/national_turkeys-top-military-council-says-channels-of-dialogue-with-russia-should-be-kept-open_405398.html


Either the military is giving a message to Erdogan that they won't play his games if he would escalate the situation further (it happened before) or a climate is being prepared for Erdogan's/Turkish Government's apology/back step.

The military aspect in Turkey is definitely one to consider. On more than once occasion in the past the military took power from the government. Of course, NATO and its "gladio" networks have been involved also.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

I apologize for the excess bold print in my last Post. Not sure what I did wrong but only a few sentences were highlighted. Not the whole thing. So sorry.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Just read Harrison's excellent article!

Terror state Turkey’s blatant hypocrisy and treachery, by Harrison Koehli
http://www.sott.net/article/307152-Terror-state-Turkeys-blatant-hypocrisy-and-treachery

This next article reminds me of "Game Theory" on geopolitical interests?

Zerohedge: Guest Post: Why Is The US Hanging Turkey Out To Dry?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/guest-post-why-us-hanging-turkey-out-dry

Authored by Andrew Korybko via OrientalReview.com

This dichotomy is suggestive of a Machiavellian plan whereby the US manipulates both Turkey and Russia into behaving according to what it has already forecast as their most likely responses, knowing full well that these could be guided into supporting grander American strategic interests. For starters, the US likely intimated to Erdogan that not only does he have the ‘legal’ right to shoot down any Russian aircraft he chooses, but that the US would actually prefer for him to take this course of action sooner than later. This is reminiscently similar to how the US put Sakkashvili up to bombing Tskhinval and invading South Ossetia – it may not have directly issued an official, on-paper order for this to occur, but it left no ambiguity as to how it wanted its proxy to act in each situation.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

angelburst29 said:
Just read Harrison's excellent article!

Terror state Turkey’s blatant hypocrisy and treachery, by Harrison Koehli
http://www.sott.net/article/307152-Terror-state-Turkeys-blatant-hypocrisy-and-treachery

This next article reminds me of "Game Theory" on geopolitical interests?

Zerohedge: Guest Post: Why Is The US Hanging Turkey Out To Dry?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/guest-post-why-us-hanging-turkey-out-dry

Authored by Andrew Korybko via OrientalReview.com

This dichotomy is suggestive of a Machiavellian plan whereby the US manipulates both Turkey and Russia into behaving according to what it has already forecast as their most likely responses, knowing full well that these could be guided into supporting grander American strategic interests. For starters, the US likely intimated to Erdogan that not only does he have the ‘legal’ right to shoot down any Russian aircraft he chooses, but that the US would actually prefer for him to take this course of action sooner than later. This is reminiscently similar to how the US put Sakkashvili up to bombing Tskhinval and invading South Ossetia – it may not have directly issued an official, on-paper order for this to occur, but it left no ambiguity as to how it wanted its proxy to act in each situation.

Interesting analysis, but I don't think Russia will be so easily manipulated. They've done very well avoiding the Empire's traps, thus far. It's not likely that they will fall into one so obvious. Or perhaps they will appear to fall into it, with yet another layer of strategy to be revealed. If Erdogan were eventually to offer an apology with some face-saving excuse, Russian-Turkish relationships might be quickly mended, at least on the surface, to the consternation of the neocons. They reason from the point of provoking mechanical reactions. Putin and his team are anything but mechanical.

Added:

At least for now, Erdogan is standing pat. No apologies, and a touch of maniacal defiance.

Putin: Turkey deliberately leading relations with Russia 'into a gridlock'


It's likely he still thinks NATO's got his back. All the leaks mentioned in the article add up to otherwise, whether or not he realizes it. You'd think after Ghaddafi and Hussein, he'd take a cue from history. :headbash:
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

So the CIA may have plotted within certain elements in Turkey to try to provoke a larger war. And Erdogan by NATO official stand by showing solidarity is convinced that they got his back. Didn’t he noticed that unofficially many NATO member were not that pleased at all? Is he just as stupid as Georgia was back in 2008? That may very well be the case, his responses on the matter so far points out a stupendous arrogance he is not able to hide which make him very unpredictable and dangerous.

If Turkey goes on the offensive by whatever false pretext presented he would try to overrun the region. Turkey has a formidable force in manpower. But that’s assuming that the Turkish Army will stand with him and not against. Not only will he attack the SAA but the entire 4+1coalition. There would also be no reason for Russia to let itself overrun. They got tactical nuclear weapons designed for scenarios like this. There is just no way Turkey will come out as a winner.

All this hints that the US is ready to sacrifice a pawn (more like a knight, bishop or rock) to oust out Assad and save their ISIS Frankenstein. Did they think this through? What if Erdogan realizes NATO stepped him in the back. He knows a awful lot.

And how about the existence of NATO. By not living up to its article 5 it looses its relevance. It also shows that any alliance can only exists when you don’t have renegade members. Europe may act on this and finally leave NATO and create its own long desired EU army.

If the US/empire loses NATO. That can certainly counts as losing a queen on the grand global chessboard.
 
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