Turkey shot down Russian bomber over Syria

Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Now western media are claiming Turkey has released audio of the last warning to the plane
_http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34929242

The audio is terrible - and last 30 seconds :rolleyes:
The sad part is millions of people will accept that as 'case closed'.

RT news (not yet on the website) reports Turkey says they didn't release this.

With Putin visiting France, it seems Germany is now on board too.
https://www.rt.com/news/323601-germany-france-isis-syria/
Germany has agreed to lend military assistance to France and support its expanded aerial campaign against the “murderous gang” after the French President asked Berlin to step up efforts against the Islamic State terrorist group in the wake of the mid-November Paris attacks.

Germany’s participation in the anti-ISIS campaign will include sending between four and six Tornado reconnaissance planes equipped with special infrared cameras to detect enemy positions, as well as a frigate to protect France’s Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier stationed in the Mediterranean. Germany will also provide aerial refueling planes for French jets, Henning Otte, defense spokesman for German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union party told journalists.

“We won’t just strengthen the training mission [for Kurdish Peshmerga fighters] in northern Iraq, but also push forward our engagement in the battle against Isis terror in Syria with reconnaissance Tornados,” Otte said as quoted by the German branch of The Local.

“Germany will be a more active contributor [to the anti-ISIS campaign] than it has been until now,” he added.[..]

Getting hard to keep up :lol:
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

bjorn said:
If Turkey goes on the offensive by whatever false pretext presented he would try to overrun the region. Turkey has a formidable force in manpower. But that’s assuming that the Turkish Army will stand with him and not against. Not only will he attack the SAA but the entire 4+1coalition. There would also be no reason for Russia to let itself overrun. They got tactical nuclear weapons designed for scenarios like this. There is just no way Turkey will come out as a winner.

Highly unlikely to happen, I doubt either Erdogan or the PTB want an all-out war with Russia. While many of them are psychopaths, they are "smart" enough to figure out the outcome of such a scenario.

bjorn said:
All this hints that the US is ready to sacrifice a pawn (more like a knight, bishop or rock) to oust out Assad and save their ISIS Frankenstein. Did they think this through? What if Erdogan realizes NATO stepped him in the back. He knows a awful lot.

And how about the existence of NATO. By not living up to its article 5 it looses its relevance. It also shows that any alliance can only exists when you don’t have renegade members. Europe may act on this and finally leave NATO and create its own long desired EU army.

If the US/empire loses NATO. That can certainly counts as losing a queen on the grand global chessboard.

No need for the EU to leave NATO to create an army but it will be really hard to convince each statesman to loose another big part of their sovereignty at this point in time. There is also no true leader of the EU since the position of President of the European Council, currently held by Donald Tusk, is more that of a figurehead with no real power. They will more likely reinforce the internal law enforcement agency, Europol which the population will more easily support in the aftermath of the recent attacks.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

RedFox said:
With Putin visiting France, it seems Germany is now on board too.
https://www.rt.com/news/323601-germany-france-isis-syria/
Germany has agreed to lend military assistance to France and support its expanded aerial campaign against the “murderous gang” after the French President asked Berlin to step up efforts against the Islamic State terrorist group in the wake of the mid-November Paris attacks.

Germany’s participation in the anti-ISIS campaign will include sending between four and six Tornado reconnaissance planes equipped with special infrared cameras to detect enemy positions, as well as a frigate to protect France’s Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier stationed in the Mediterranean. Germany will also provide aerial refueling planes for French jets, Henning Otte, defense spokesman for German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union party told journalists.

“We won’t just strengthen the training mission [for Kurdish Peshmerga fighters] in northern Iraq, but also push forward our engagement in the battle against Isis terror in Syria with reconnaissance Tornados,” Otte said as quoted by the German branch of The Local.

“Germany will be a more active contributor [to the anti-ISIS campaign] than it has been until now,” he added.[..]

Getting hard to keep up :lol:

That is all very confusing, maybe deliberately so, because it's hard to discern whether they join the larger US-led "coalition of the unwilling" or a new coalition under Putin, the lines seem to blur... But maybe that's Russia's plan - use all the energy of the moment and the talk about "joint efforts", "coalition" etc. to create a real anti-ISIS-coalition where Russia calls the shots, to kind of replace the US-led coalition under the umbrella of the existing narrative, so that the Western mainstream-audience barely notices it.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Perceval said:
angelburst29 said:
Russian FM Wants to Know If US Greenlighted Turkish Ambush of Su-24 Warplane

More than green lighted, I tend to think that the US was responsible for the shoot down.

Always the last to know: Did Turkish government find out about shoot-down of Russian jet after the fact?

Thanks Perceval as well for your article - I think too, that this is what might have happened. And as you mentioned in a post in this topic, the Turkish military has definitely played an active role in the country's politics and taken over power before. This could be also a joint Turkish military/neocon/military industrial complex (they are probably all one and the same at higher levels) coup to further escalate the situation. In typical psychopathic fashion - they just felt the need to react and "back stab" as they couldn't take the gains Russia was making in Syria, including their growing cooperation with France and Germany in the battle against ISIL. As mentioned in a Sott article comment - seems this has backfired too, as Nato has not been called to intervene, and instead we find further co-operation between Russia, France and Germany.

As the C's mentioned : "It will be a bad time for the elite soon. And it will intensify for them according to their FRV"
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

[quote author=eboard]Highly unlikely to happen, I doubt either Erdogan or the PTB want an all-out war with Russia[/quote]

I know that’s why I said, there is no way Turkey can come out as a winner. But recent events leave room for speculation. I wouldn’t place Erdogan as a smart man btw, his outbursts clearly show that, The PTB can’t afford a war with Russia indeed, nor humanity. That’s why I am talking about sacrificing Turkey in a scheme.

Why has the US send in F-15 air-superiority warplanes to Turkey among others things? ISIS doesn't has a air-force. Something is brewing. Just wonders what direction it will take.

[quote author=eboard]No need for the EU to leave NATO to create an army[/quote]

Leaving NATO will be a blow to US hegemony. And the US and the elements seeking this know it:

http://www.sott.net/article/306827-Washington-wont-let-EU-have-its-own-army-despite-calls-from-European-Commission

"The recent NATO summits - in May 2012 and in September 2014 - showed that decisions within NATO are made under US control, and those decisions are usually aggressive. Uncle Sam is unlikely to give any freedom to the EU,"
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Saša said:
Perceval said:
angelburst29 said:
Russian FM Wants to Know If US Greenlighted Turkish Ambush of Su-24 Warplane

More than green lighted, I tend to think that the US was responsible for the shoot down.

Always the last to know: Did Turkish government find out about shoot-down of Russian jet after the fact?

After reading the speculation laid in the article it seems like a plausible conclusion.
I found this article somewhat speculative in nature. To me, it seemed to go a bit too far in its estimate of the degree to which the Turkish military and government should be absolved of responsibility.

It is possible the US may have greenlighted the shoot down. This is a question Lavrov wanted to know in his 40 minute speech. The article's reasoning didn't convince me that it wasn't primarily a planned Turkish military decision, that may also have been given a US greenlight.

1) Running to consult with NATO and firing off a letter to the UN.

I think it could still have been a planned-in-advance provocation by Turkey. Once the shoot down has taken place, it would make sense for Turkey to contact NATO and the UN and put get their version of events as they would like them to be seen on the table. If you have just provoked a major power, you would want to do what is possible to get back amongst the protection of your allies.

2) No pessimistic bi-lateral energy outlook.
The Turkish Energy Minister was positive about continuing trade between Turkey and Russia. But in Lavrov's cool-headed speech he was also similarly positive about economic relations continuing between Turkey and Russia.

3) I personally did it!
If the Turkish PM was acting in a Machiavellian way, admitting he did it might seem to him in his self-interest (regardless of who actually did it.) It might make him seem more powerful, in control, more to be feared, rather than someone out-of-touch who doesn't know what their own military is doing. Perhaps even the image of being a "loose cannon" might be one he sees as advantageous.

The bottom line here is that Turkey gains very little, if anything, from attacking Russia in this way, and it risks a lot.

What could Turkey have thought they could have gained? Perhaps they thought it would result in Russia reducing its activities near Syria's border with Turkey, and hence give IS more ability to take territory from the Kurds, and to trade oil into Turkey.

Another point in favour of attributing more blame to Turkey, rather than considering them as "caught with their pants down", are the press release in favour of IS being considered as some kind of legitimate group that ought to have its own consulate by the head of the Turkish Intelligence. And secondly Putin's reference to the event as a case of "back-stabbing" seems to be a reference to an action done by Turkey, rather than by Russia's not-so-great friend the US.

I might have missed the point of the article, which perhaps is that in the greater picture any so-called independent actions by Turkey are still a part of the US/Israel's hegemonic plan. . . but FWIW :)
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Just a note that the "interview" in which the Turkish head of intelligence is claimed to have said all that about IS has turned out to be a hoax. Thierry Meyssan had that on his website, and then it was found to be not true. FWIW.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Mal7 said:
I found this article somewhat speculative in nature. To me, it seemed to go a bit too far in its estimate of the degree to which the Turkish military and government should be absolved of responsibility.

It is possible the US may have greenlighted the shoot down. This is a question Lavrov wanted to know in his 40 minute speech. The article's reasoning didn't convince me that it wasn't primarily a planned Turkish military decision, that may also have been given a US greenlight.

Well, it's all rather speculative at this point, which is why I presented it as a "possibility". The question here is what Turkey hoped to achieve from such an action if it was a Turkish only decision. Are we to assume they are so stupid as to think that it would stop Russian bombing in the area? The very next day Russia bombed the hell out of the area that the Su-24s were bombing when one was shot down.

Are we to assume they thought it would provoke Russia into attacking Turkey and thereby declaring war on NATO? Are we to believe the Turks think the Russians are so naive as to take such crass bait and shoot themselves in the foot in a BIG way by risking war with NATO and alienating France, Germany and all other NATO members?

It seems to me that any half-intelligent person could immediately determine with a lot of certainty what the likely Russian response would be. That response being exactly what the Russians have done and have said they will do. Again, are the Turks so stupid?

The problem here is that Turkey has been riven with competing factions, including Western agents, for decades. It's not a stretch to say that Turkey has been used for more than 50 years as a central Asian staging ground for NATO/Gladio operations both during the "cold war" that then segued into the "war on terrorism", all of it designed specifically as part of the US/NATO's attempt to control the politics, people and future of the region and, from the 'Great game" point of view, the entire globe.

So trying to figure out who exactly did what and who was, or was not, on the same page as others is necessarily difficult to do. There is also no small amount of false claims, as evidenced by the false statements attributed to Turkish intel chief Hakan Fidan.

I'll be exploring the somewhat hidden history of Turkish/NATO relations in another article soon. In the mean time, we should remember that this is a pretty complicated situation with different groups working at cross purposes. The one thing we CAN hang our hat on however is that more or less everything that is done by Western powers and their allies is ultimately aimed at thwarting Russia's development on the international stage. It has been so for at least 100 years.

On the Turkish government's full and enthusiastic "ownership" of the shoot down, consider it from this angle:

Turkey and Russia are nominally 'friends', certainly economically-speaking they are. Someone takes a knife and stabs Russia in the back and then puts the bloody knife in Erdogan and Co's collective hand. They are surprised, but quickly realise they have to react in some way. What are their options, and what is the best option from their POV?
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Mal7 said:
I might have missed the point of the article, which perhaps is that in the greater picture any so-called independent actions by Turkey are still a part of the US/Israel's hegemonic plan. . . but FWIW :)

Hey, I am a Greek Cypriot and all too happy to see Turkey someday getting some kind of pay pack for all it ever has done to Greece and Cyprus... and it's a long historic list. But I can't deny the facts that the British and the Americans did more harm to Greece and Cyprus this last century than Turkey ever did.

The western powers that be (and I include Israel in recent years - but mostly the US and European countries) are the biggest and most horrible terrorists the world has seen in ages. All the destruction, pillaging and murders they committed as colonial powers, in Asia in Africa in the Middle East, and how they continue to treat their ex-colonies, the obliteration of the Indigenous peoples of North and South America and Australia, all the wars and the war crimes committed with unbelievable sadistic violence... What we call our western "civilization" is built on the bones and blood of millions of innocent people and on the pillaging of their countries and the enslavement of those of them that lived. To this day.

Taken into that historic context, the Turkish government might be a bully, but its puppet masters in NATO are way more powerful and way more sinister and evil and I have no doubt that whether Turkey backs terrorists or is put on the spot for shooting Russian jets, there's someone behind pulling the strings with agendas that Turkey might not be able to even consider. Same when Turkey violates the Greek airspace, or when it invaded Cyprus in 1974. There are classified documents of CIA that became available back in 2008 I think, and show clearly how Kissinger financed and armed the invasion. And that's probably the tip of the iceberg. Leftist sentiments were always strong in both Greece and Cyprus, and the fear of siding with Russia was the motivating factor for western powers to act, whatever the cost. And Greece and Cyprus are small potatoes. When we are talking about the possibility of countries like Syria or Iran or Turkey siding with Russia, with their armies and their resources, the game is upped.

Just saw Perceval's post too.

The one thing we CAN hang our hat on however is that more or less everything that is done by Western powers and their allies is ultimately aimed at thwarting Russia's development on the international stage. It has been so for at least 100 years.

Totally.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

With this Russian Jet that was shot down, whoever decided to green light that Turkish jet, they must have made the decision somewhat quickly as the window of opportunity is quite small! Given the chain of command, I wonder if something could have happened that quick. It's more than likely a whole bunch of Turkish senior people were caught off guard. Joe's article certainly rings true.

Plus anyways when you refer to an organisational entity e.g. Turkey, in reality, it's not one cohesive unit. There are many things within it that function independent of other bits. There are things that are official and things which aren't, all happening in the same place, with or without knowledge of all the people who should know. More than likely interests within such a place also vary. Officialdom sometimes isn't all its cracked to be in terms of what actually happens on the ground. It always has to shift/change to claim things as their own or not their own when it comes to light though, for the sake of being official!
 
According to Russian Air Force Commander Viktor Bondarev, Turkish warplanes made an ambush for the Russian Su-24M bomber. His detailed description of who did what, where and when can be found here in Russian and a brief version here in English. fwiw
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

Perceval said:
Mal7 said:
I found this article somewhat speculative in nature. To me, it seemed to go a bit too far in its estimate of the degree to which the Turkish military and government should be absolved of responsibility.

It is possible the US may have greenlighted the shoot down. This is a question Lavrov wanted to know in his 40 minute speech. The article's reasoning didn't convince me that it wasn't primarily a planned Turkish military decision, that may also have been given a US greenlight.

Well, it's all rather speculative at this point, which is why I presented it as a "possibility". The question here is what Turkey hoped to achieve from such an action if it was a Turkish only decision. Are we to assume they are so stupid as to think that it would stop Russian bombing in the area? The very next day Russia bombed the hell out of the area that the Su-24s were bombing when one was shot down.

Are we to assume they thought it would provoke Russia into attacking Turkey and thereby declaring war on NATO? Are we to believe the Turks think the Russians are so naive as to take such crass bait and shoot themselves in the foot in a BIG way by risking war with NATO and alienating France, Germany and all other NATO members?

It seems to me that any half-intelligent person could immediately determine with a lot of certainty what the likely Russian response would be. That response being exactly what the Russians have done and have said they will do. Again, are the Turks so stupid?

The problem here is that Turkey has been riven with competing factions, including Western agents, for decades. It's not a stretch to say that Turkey has been used for more than 50 years as a central Asian staging ground for NATO/Gladio operations both during the "cold war" that then segued into the "war on terrorism", all of it designed specifically as part of the US/NATO's attempt to control the politics, people and future of the region and, from the 'Great game" point of view, the entire globe.

So trying to figure out who exactly did what and who was, or was not, on the same page as others is necessarily difficult to do. There is also no small amount of false claims, as evidenced by the false statements attributed to Turkish intel chief Hakan Fidan.

I'll be exploring the somewhat hidden history of Turkish/NATO relations in another article soon. In the mean time, we should remember that this is a pretty complicated situation with different groups working at cross purposes. The one thing we CAN hang our hat on however is that more or less everything that is done by Western powers and their allies is ultimately aimed at thwarting Russia's development on the international stage. It has been so for at least 100 years.

On the Turkish government's full and enthusiastic "ownership" of the shoot down, consider it from this angle:

Turkey and Russia are nominally 'friends', certainly economically-speaking they are. Someone takes a knife and stabs Russia in the back and then puts the bloody knife in Erdogan and Co's collective hand. They are surprised, but quickly realise they have to react in some way. What are their options, and what is the best option from their POV?

fwiw this may add to the above
http://russia-insider.com/en/curb-your-enthusiasm-russia-not-winning-syria/ri11485
Curb Your Enthusiasm, Russia Is Not Winning in Syria
A counterview to consider. With a Russian-Turkish crisis that Russia can't benefit from, and few territorial gains in Syria, this opponent of US global hegemony feels Russia's Syria intervention was a bad idea that will hurt Russia in the long term

Despite all you've heard about Russia's great airstrikes and “Putin going full beast”, the Russian position in Syria and the world is looking weaker by the day.

First off, the main supply line of the Russian force in Syria, and in fact the entire Syrian army, which is fighting almost exclusively with Russian munitions, hangs on the Bosporus and Dardanelles. The required volumes of jet fuel, ammo, etc., simply cannot be brought in by air.

In a state of war or near-war with Turkey, or say a Russian cut-off of gas supplies to that nation as retaliation for the SU-24 downing, Ankara would have not only perhaps the legal right but certainly U.S. approval to shut down this lifeline.

Assad would then probably collapse within weeks and the Russian force, lacking fuel and munitions, would have to evacuate by air, perhaps via the Iraq-Iran-Caspian route if Uncle Sam hasn't closed off Iraqi airspace to Russia by that point.


So in truth, despite the brave talk on most sites not sympathetic to the Empire, Russia can do nothing militarily against Turkey. Moreover, Russia's problems are now mounting by the week.

The destruction of the tourist plane over Sinai has led Moscow to ban direct flights to Egypt, potentially throwing a big wrench into Russian-Egyptian relations, which had up to that point been strengthening. Now with the Turkish crisis, Russia's relationship with one of its main trading partners is on the skids.

Yes, Turkey may lose over $20 billion/year or 2.5 percent of its GDP (can you say recession?) from Russian sanctions, including comprehensive restrictions on flights and tourism (there were 4.4 million Russian visits to Turkey last year), import bans, loss of massive construction contracts throughout Russia, and an end to Russian investment in the Akkuyu nuclear power plant, which Rosatom was building on its own dime.

But is this a good thing? Who needs it? There is no prize for guessing who benefits from these two strong, proud, sovereign states (so unlike America's emasculated European colonies) butting heads.

And what will next week bring? You just know something bad will happen. Some Russian pundits have suggested recognizing Syrian Kurdistan and arming the Kurds. OK, then what? It will just keep rolling downhill.

The “solution” to problem A will cause problems B and C, and so on. Don't they realize this is precisely America's M.O.? But at least Uncle Sam can afford it. This is a terrible swamp Russia is sinking into.

Also at this time, it is clear that the Iranian-Hezbollah “Big Offensive” was a load of hot air. Making use of the Russian air strikes, the Shi'ites have stabilized the situation and taken a few villages here and there, but they are also wasting themselves with casualties they were not prepared for.

Nor does Hezbollah have any strategic reserve to speak of. What they've thrown into the mix is all there is. There won't be another “Big Offensive.”

Only someone who has spent too long playing too many computer games could have thought that the Iranians and just 6000 Hezbollah and what pathetic ragtag bits remain of the Syrian army were ever going to chase the rebels or Nusra or ISIS out of Syria.

At most, destroying ISIS' oil business might lead the group into Chapter 11, causing it to splinter into many small outfits, perhaps with local tribes taking back some of their own lands.

But for Assad to recover that territory? Forget it! No one in the region will allow it, even if Assad had the manpower for it, which he does not at this point. Nor do I think his goons would ever be welcome back. Notwithstanding the sad apologias we have seen on his behalf, he is now the “legitimate elected leader” of precisely Jack and squat.

So it seems that the great geostrategic genius, Vladimir Putin, may have finally gone a bridge too far. If he had left it alone, the problems of a hyper-fragmented, Somalia-esque, post-Assad Syria as well as ISIS would have been 100-percent owned by America and its lackeys.

This permanent catastrophe would have sapped any remaining will on Uncle Sam's part to intervene in the region. In fact, after colossal, nation-destroying failures in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and of course Ukraine—which saw Washington's chaos devouring our world like “The Nothing” from The Neverending Story—it could have been the very last straw, the end of U.S. Global Dominion. But now, all the Empire needs to do is sit back and watch Russia screw up and exhaust itself.

And Assad is still toast, even if his “Saigon embassy roof” escape to Moscow, Tehran, or Bolivia has been delayed by a year or two. Like the late Najibullah in Afghanistan, this patient can never come off life support, and the only question is when does the hospital get tired or go broke trying to keep him alive. (Besides Russian involvement, Iran is reportedly sending him $6 billion a year, which probably amounts to his entire state budget.)

For Russia, the only benefit I see is its air force gaining experience waging a US-style extended bombing campaign as well as impressing countries such as India, who then line up to buy even more Russian arms. Other than that, I see no gains, only risks now manifesting as one crisis after another.

As for Russian and other post-Soviet nationals involved with Nusra or ISIS, who present an existential threat to the entire former USSR, they can run back to their support base of Turkey at the drop of a hat, then return when things have calmed down.

Only the delusional think the Russian air force will kill them all, or even enough to make a difference. Short of dropping neutron bombs, this is a fool's errand.

Just as with the 9/11 attackers and their ilk, the only real solution is stopping them at the border or at the airport immigration control booth. The “we have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here” approach is pure fantasy imported from America.

It pains me to see wise Russia parroting failed Bush-era mantras straight out of Fox News. For a country that is intellectually head-and-shoulders over the US, with a leader who can speak coherently and in great detail for three hours without a teleprompter, it is certainly a new low.

Russia should have stayed home. Now it is in a hopeless situation that is rolling downhill at dizzying speed. I'm almost afraid to open my eyes at this point.
 
In a state of war or near-war with Turkey, or say a Russian cut-off of gas supplies to that nation as retaliation for the SU-24 downing,

I highly doubt that Russia will cut-off gas supplies to Turkey. Cool heads prevail. Bit hypocritical perhaps of me saying that considering my recent posts on this issue but chances are that more provocation will occur from now on and it rings certainly true that Russia has to play this smart. But knowing Lavrov and Putin, they are up to the challenge.

Considering Turkey militarily role in securing democracy within a secular state, maybe its time for them to act again and remove erdogan from power. Question is, concerning erdogan track record of undermining actually that. Why hasn’t the military acted already ?


Wikipedia:

The Turkish military perceived itself as the guardian of Kemalist ideology, the official state ideology, especially of the secular aspects of Kemalism. The TAF still maintains an important degree of influence over the decision making process regarding issues related to Turkish national security, albeit decreased in the past decades, via the National Security Council.
The military had a record of intervening in politics, removing elected governments four times in the past. Indeed, it assumed power for several periods in the latter half of the 20th century. It executed three coups d'état: in 1960 (May 27 coup), in 1971 (March 12 coup), and in 1980 (September 12 coup). Following the 1960 coup d'état, the military executed the first democratically elected prime minister in Turkey, Adnan Menderes, in 1961.[48] Most recently, it maneuvered the removal of an Islamist prime minister, Necmettin Erbakan, in 1997 (known as the February 28 memorandum).[4] Contrary to outsider expectations, the Turkish populace was not uniformly averse to coups; many welcomed the ejection of governments they perceived as unconstitutional


[quote author=Russian Insider]First off, the main supply line of the Russian force in Syria, and in fact the entire Syrian army, which is fighting almost exclusively with Russian munitions, hangs on the Bosporus and Dardanelles. The required volumes of jet fuel, ammo, etc., simply cannot be brought in by air.[/quote]

What prevents Russia from avoiding the Bosphorus Strait and taking the long road ? I don’t see how this is a problem if only temporally ?


[quote author=Russian Insider]Also at this time, it is clear that the Iranian-Hezbollah “Big Offensive” was a load of hot air. Making use of the Russian air strikes, the Shi'ites have stabilized the situation and taken a few villages here and there, but they are also wasting themselves with casualties they were not prepared for.

Nor does Hezbollah have any strategic reserve to speak of.[/quote]

So far that I know, the 4+1 has gained and is still very much on the offensive. If things go southwards, what prevents them from sending more ground troops? I don’t know about the reserves of Hezbollah. But Iran has still plenty. And I mean plenty. Iran has also financial heavily invested in keeping Assad afloat, they will not give up on this investment anytime soon. This country fought against Iraq which was supported by the US for 8 years while enduring 8 million casualties. And this author of Russian insider believes Iran would fall back because of some minor causalities. Iran is not to be taken lightly. The author of this article is a bit over-dramatic in the negative sense and is also inaccurate on a few major points I think.
 
Re: Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet over Syria

RedFox said:
Perceval said:
Mal7 said:
I found this article somewhat speculative in nature. To me, it seemed to go a bit too far in its estimate of the degree to which the Turkish military and government should be absolved of responsibility.

It is possible the US may have greenlighted the shoot down. This is a question Lavrov wanted to know in his 40 minute speech. The article's reasoning didn't convince me that it wasn't primarily a planned Turkish military decision, that may also have been given a US greenlight.

Well, it's all rather speculative at this point, which is why I presented it as a "possibility". The question here is what Turkey hoped to achieve from such an action if it was a Turkish only decision. Are we to assume they are so stupid as to think that it would stop Russian bombing in the area? The very next day Russia bombed the hell out of the area that the Su-24s were bombing when one was shot down.

fwiw this may add to the above
http://russia-insider.com/en/curb-your-enthusiasm-russia-not-winning-syria/ri11485
Curb Your Enthusiasm, Russia Is Not Winning in Syria
A counterview to consider. With a Russian-Turkish crisis that Russia can't benefit from, and few territorial gains in Syria, this opponent of US global hegemony feels Russia's Syria intervention was a bad idea that will hurt Russia in the long term

Despite all you've heard about Russia's great airstrikes and “Putin going full beast”, the Russian position in Syria and the world is looking weaker by the day.

The above counterview, although an alternate view is mainly an opinionated "hit-piece" with no real data to support the authors views, in my opinion. Anyone who follows the daily "progress reports" of the Syrian ground troop movements, backed up with Russian Military reports can witness systematic "territory gains." Just this one report (below), reported a day ago with Syrian advancement in the eastern part of Aleppo, a major stronghold of ISIL/Turkey activities, blows the authors narratives to shreds. Add to that, Israel's fear of losing it's illegal grip on the Golan Heights and recent discovery of massive gas deposits, that would rival Saudi oil. Erdogan and his immediate Family (Son and relatives) just lost their personal "cash-cow" with Russian air strikes on the oil trucks. I'm willing to bet, Israel was the main "buyer" of the illegal begotten oil supplies? Yet, the article focuses on Russia and how it supplies it's Military? Russia didn't walk into this situation - half blind - but fully prepared.

Russian Warplanes Target Turkish Weapons Convoy in Syria
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940905000392

The airstrikes hit the trucks which were carrying weapons from Turkey to the Takfiri terrorists fighting in Syria near Azaz town in Aleppo on Wednesday.

Earlier on Wednesday, sources said the Syrian Army and its allies have significantly advanced against the ISIL militants in the Eastern part of Aleppo province and have won back the important Humaymah hilltop.

Humaymah al-Kabeera is strategically located to the East of the Kuweires Military Airport and to the West of the ISIL stronghold of Deir Hafer.

The Aleppo-Raqqa highway is passing through the middle of Humaymah al-Kabeera town.
 
The relatives of Oleg Peshkov, the pilot of the Russian Su-24 bomber that was downed by the Turkish Air Force jets in Syria, refuse to believe that he is dead. According to them, he may be injured or taken prisoner.

Relatives of Russian Su-24 Pilot 'Refuse to Believe He is Dead'
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151127/1030858186/russia-bomber-turkey-syria-pilot-death.html

As Moscow mourns the death of the Russian pilot and the marine who were killed on Tuesday in Syria, the family of the pilot refuses to believe that Oleg Peshkov is dead.

Oleg Peshkov was born in the Lipetsk region of Russia and as his friends have said, he has always had dreams of becoming a pilot. He finished Suvorovskiy Military Academy with a gold medal. He went on to study further and upon completion he had difficult assignments in various hot spots, Vesti News reported.

On Tuesday, a Russian Su-24 bomber jet flown by Oleg Peshkov was shot down by an air-to-air missile of a Turkish F-16 jet over Syria and fell 4 kilometers from the Turkish border.

There was a memorial service for him in Moscow and in his hometown in Lipetsk where his many colleagues, friends and neighbors came to pay tribute and lay flowers in the church where the service was held.

However, in an interview with the Russian newspaper ‘Komsomolskaya Pravda’ the younger brother of the pilot, Pavel Peshkov, said that the body has not been found, hence, he does not believe that his brother is dead.

Pavel said in an interview that he spoke with Oleg on November 14th and Oleg told him that he was leaving for an assignment for two months. “For my brother this was not the first assignment, he has worked in hot spots before,” Pavel Peshkov said.

“I knew this was his job and I wasn’t even worried. He is a fighter pilot and he is a good specialist. He has many flight hours and experience.”

However, when information appeared about a downed Su-24, his relatives got worried. “I looked online thoroughly for available information,” Pavel said. “At first there was information that it was a different person and that the plane was from Chelyabinsk. I was relieved but then my brother’s wife called again saying that it was ours and that in the airplane there was Kolya, the navigator, and Oleg. Who survived and who died that was unclear.”

He further talked about how he has seen all of the videos that have been released by the militants next to the body of the Russian pilot, “There are those (videos) where you can see the face but it is covered in blood. I do not see familiar features, I do not recognize them. For me that is not him. I am ready for a DNA test because I do not believe it.”

Oleg Peshkov’s entire family continues to hope that he is still alive. He has two children, a 16-year-old daughter and a younger son.

According to the Russian Defense Ministry, the Su-24 pilot died because he was attacked from the ground while landing. The marine was also killed in the course of a rescue operation.
 
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