UK election surprise: Manchester terror attack (and others)

Carl said:
Joe said:
Two agendas, equally important, were served by the likely rigging of the vote, which probably was largely confined to Scotland (they had past experience with the Scottish ref.) By removing votes from the SNP and giving them to the Scottish Cons. party, the Conservatives overall gained enough seats to be the largest party AND to have enough to form a minority party in Parliament with the DUP, and at the same time putting the kabosh on a 2nd Scottish referendum. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of rigging in Northern Ireland also in order to up the DUPs seats to allow them to 'cover' for the Tories.

I thought that too, that there was more likely rigging where you wouldn't expect it, primarily the DUP votes. It really did blind-side a lot of people. And now that you mention it, it makes a lot of sense that they would target Scotland in the same way. Like really, parts of Scotland voted Tory? The same people who wanted OUT of the UK and remain IN the EU? No chance.
One of my first thoughts was how are the Tories winning seats in Scotland. I suppose it would be good to do a bit of digging and find out more about the seats they won and whether there were any historical wins in those areas by the Tories in previous years. I'll have a look when I've got more time.
Anam Cara said:
One consequence of this proposed Tory/DUP minority government may be a final breakdown in Northern Ireland's fragile political power-sharing arrangement. The UK and Irish governments are currently trying to mediate between the DUP and Irish nationalists to restore the Northern Irish government. So how can mediation work if the DUP is going to form part of the UK government?

Earlier this year it was DUP leader Arlene Foster's involvement in the £400m 'cash for ash' energy scheme scandal that led to the collapse of the power-sharing agreement in Stormont prompting the late Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness to resign. A Tory/DUP alliance is only going to increase tensions between the political parties in Northern Ireland.

An online petition demanding that the Conservatives scrap plans to form a government with DUP support, has gained nearly 300,000 signatures in just 12 hours.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-results-dup-conservative-theresa-may-petition-deal-northern-ireland-a7783021.html

I do wonder if this already precarious situation could deteriorate further into escalating sectarian violence and a return of the 'Troubles'. As Siobhan Fenton writes in the Independent:

When she called the general election, it was clear that Theresa May had little idea of the damage such a poll could cause Northern Ireland at a crucial time for power-sharing. By entering into a coalition with the DUP, it is even more apparent that she does not consider peace or stability in Northern Ireland a priority. Instead, she is sacrificing years of work on the peace process in order to get the keys to No 10.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/dup-conservatives-northern-ireland-coalition-ulster-defence-association-paramilitaries-peace-process-a7782631.html
This is very ineteresting and it does look like a very dangerous situation that hasn't been thought through at all.
 
Excuse the Bad language but ,
34412926883_065a295aac_b.jpg
 
seek10 said:
Now Tories don't have majority, they have to depend to DUP which is Pro-Brexit. We know they can easily rig the system particularly with electronic voting machines, after looking at the result, makes me wonder Is this what PTB wants from the beginning?. I know this is speculative, but can't help in this age of fake news media.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think they still use paper ballots in the UK for elections. What I watched on TV showed some of the count centers and it looked like they had hundreds of people counting paper ballots by hand. While the count was happening, they have scrutineers from each of the political parties watching over their shoulders as the votes were being counted, seemingly to make sure that the result announced ties in with what the scrutineers witnessed during the counting process.

But in such a paper based manual process, there are many steps along the way where 'adjustments' could be made if someone wanted to do so. But if that were the case, surely they would have ensured a more certain outcome?
 
James The Sixth said:
seek10 said:
Now Tories don't have majority, they have to depend to DUP which is Pro-Brexit. We know they can easily rig the system particularly with electronic voting machines, after looking at the result, makes me wonder Is this what PTB wants from the beginning?. I know this is speculative, but can't help in this age of fake news media.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think they still use paper ballots in the UK for elections. What I watched on TV showed some of the count centers and it looked like they had hundreds of people counting paper ballots by hand. While the count was happening, they have scrutineers from each of the political parties watching over their shoulders as the votes were being counted, seemingly to make sure that the result announced ties in with what the scrutineers witnessed during the counting process.

But in such a paper based manual process, there are many steps along the way where 'adjustments' could be made if someone wanted to do so. But if that were the case, surely they would have ensured a more certain outcome?

Yes the ballot paper I filled out was in paper, and others that I spoke to said the same, as far as I am aware the UK hasn't moved to electronic voting yet. They supplied pencils to fill out the ballot paper which I thought was odd, but my Mum said this is what they always do. I asked for a pen, not that it would make much difference if they wanted to alter/ bin it :lol:.
 
Jenn said:
James The Sixth said:
seek10 said:
Now Tories don't have majority, they have to depend to DUP which is Pro-Brexit. We know they can easily rig the system particularly with electronic voting machines, after looking at the result, makes me wonder Is this what PTB wants from the beginning?. I know this is speculative, but can't help in this age of fake news media.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think they still use paper ballots in the UK for elections. What I watched on TV showed some of the count centers and it looked like they had hundreds of people counting paper ballots by hand. While the count was happening, they have scrutineers from each of the political parties watching over their shoulders as the votes were being counted, seemingly to make sure that the result announced ties in with what the scrutineers witnessed during the counting process.

But in such a paper based manual process, there are many steps along the way where 'adjustments' could be made if someone wanted to do so. But if that were the case, surely they would have ensured a more certain outcome?

Yes the ballot paper I filled out was in paper, and others that I spoke to said the same, as far as I am aware the UK hasn't moved to electronic voting yet. They supplied pencils to fill out the ballot paper which I thought was odd, but my Mum said this is what they always do. I asked for a pen, not that it would make much difference if they wanted to alter/ bin it :lol:.
Thank you for the correcting me. Though I saw paper ballots on the stream, i didn't realize that all the UK uses paper ballots, when countries like India uses lot of electronic machines, if not all.

wiki says _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_by_country#United_Kingdom
England
Voting pilots have taken place in May 2006,[95] June 2004,[96] May 2003,[97] May 2002, and May 2000.
In 2000, the London Mayoral and Assembly elections were counted using an optical scan voting system with software provided by DRS plc of Milton Keynes. In 2004, the London Mayoral, Assembly and European Parliamentary elections were scanned and processed using optical character recognition from the same company. Both elections required some editing of the ballot design to facilitate electronic tabulation, though they differed only slightly from the previous 'mark with an X' style ballots.[citation needed]
As at January 2016, the UK Parliament has no plans to introduce electronic voting for statutory elections, either using electronic voting in polling booths or remotely via the internet.
Scotland
An optical scan voting system was used to electronically count paper ballots in the Scottish Parliament general election and Scottish council elections in 2007.[99][100] A report commissioned by the UK Electoral Commission found significant errors in ballot design produced more than 150,000 spoilt votes.[101]
 
James The Sixth said:
seek10 said:
Now Tories don't have majority, they have to depend to DUP which is Pro-Brexit. We know they can easily rig the system particularly with electronic voting machines, after looking at the result, makes me wonder Is this what PTB wants from the beginning?. I know this is speculative, but can't help in this age of fake news media.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think they still use paper ballots in the UK for elections. What I watched on TV showed some of the count centers and it looked like they had hundreds of people counting paper ballots by hand. While the count was happening, they have scrutineers from each of the political parties watching over their shoulders as the votes were being counted, seemingly to make sure that the result announced ties in with what the scrutineers witnessed during the counting process.

But in such a paper based manual process, there are many steps along the way where 'adjustments' could be made if someone wanted to do so. But if that were the case, surely they would have ensured a more certain outcome?

If we take the example of the Brexit Vote,
I believe the truer figure for the leave Vote was around 75%

Rigging, can be done many ways,
by either erasing votes and penciling in a different cross,
Or removing votes while in transport,
Or through manipulating the postal vote etc,
There are many ways ,
The problem is , How difficult would it be for a constituency of say 50'000
to actually organise their own COUNT after having their vote rigged ?

And what would happen if they found it had been tampered with ?

The Brexit Vote could NOT BE Rigged to give a Remain Result,
so they rigged it as much as possible,
to allow for the option of calling for another vote later,
IMO.
 
For reference, the thread on the Scottish Referendum.
Joe and Niall's article on Sott: Special Report: Scottish Referendum Rigged - The 'How' and the 'Why'
And the C's session covering it: Session 20 September 2014

(Perceval) Was there any vote fraud in the Scottish vote for independence?

A: Yes.

Q: (Kniall) Did they rig it for "No"?

A: Yes.

Q: (Perceval) What was the real percentage of "Yes for Independence" votes?

A: 73%

Q: [All in unison: "WOW!"]

(Pierre) That's terrible.

(Perceval) This is my Surprised Face...

(Chu) We suspected more than 70%. We were talking about it today.
 
Sneaky May wants to hold power for as long as she can. Does she really see it as her mission to negotiate the whole Brexit deal herself, and if so what is it that she is trying to secure that way?

Theresa May cancels 2018 Queen’s Speech as DUP pact hangs in the balance

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/theresa-may-cancels-2018-queens-speech-dup-pact-hangs-balance/

Ben Riley-Smith, Assistant Political Editor

17 June 2017 • 10:00pm

Theresa May has cancelled the 2018 Queen’s Speech to smooth the path for Brexit reforms as a deal with the DUP hangs in the balance.

The Prime Minister announced that a two-year parliamentary session will be launched on Wednesday rather than the traditional one-year session.

The step breaks with historical precedence and was last taken in the early days of the Coalition as it scrambled to create stable government in 2010.

Government sources last night insisted the move was planned before the election and would give time for laws needed for Brexit to be fully debated.

However opposition figures with a knowledge of parliamentary procedure claimed the move was an attempt to shore up Mrs May’s position after failing to win a majority.

The Prime Minister’s new Government is dependent on the support of 10 DUP MPs to remain in place because the Tories lost seats at the snap election.

The Queen’s Speech - which lays out the laws that ministers want to pass in the coming year - is a major moment in the parliamentary diary.

It is seen as a critical test for the Government and failure to win the backing of a majority of MPs is seen as a vote of no confidence.

By cancelling the 2018 Queen’s Speech, Mrs May removes a vote that could have bought down her Government from the diary.

Andrea Leadsom, the Commons Leader, said: “Whilst our top priority right now is supporting the victims of the terrible tragedy at Grenfell tower, we also need to look ahead by setting out a legislative programme that not only delivers a successful EU exit but also a domestic agenda which aims to tackle the social injustices in our country.

“The UK will spend the next two years preparing for our departure from the European Union in a way that best places us to realise the opportunities ahead and build a fairer society.

This year’s Queen’s Speech will take place on Wednesday and will include the Great Repeal Bill - legislation that will convert all EU law into UK law.

News laws on immigration will be announced, while counter-terrorism proposals in the wake of three terror attacks this year are also expected.

However Tory MPs think many of the domestic reforms outlined in their manifesto just weeks ago will be shelved because they will not get through the hung parliament.

Talks with the DUP about a so-called “confidence and supply” deal - where the party would agree to back the Tories in no confidence votes and the Budget - is yet to be finalised.

Sources on both sides said they are progressing well and indicated they hope to complete a deal before the Queen’s Speech - though this is not certain.

Meanwhile concerns about forming a pact with the DUP and its knock-on impact of talks about power-sharing in Northern Ireland are growing on the Tory backbenches.

Tom Tugendhat, a Tory MP and former soldier who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, uses a piece in today’s Sunday Telegraph to raise his concerns.

He warns of the impact the Government’s apparent closeness with the DUP could have on peace in Northern Ireland, saying that often “perception can become reality”.

Mr Tugendhat says: “Is it worth it? Can an agreement creates the perception of a link between Conservatives, homophobic attitudes, Protestant militias and illiberal policies really yield the five years of stability our country so desperately needs?

"If it could, it would be worth the sacrifice in the national interest. But I need to be convinced.”
 
Another potential terrorist attack in the UK. One man has been confirmed dead by police after a van drove into pedestrians near a mosque in Finsbury Park, North London, which is part of Jeremy Corbyn's Islington North constituency.

Multiple casualties are reported in London's Finsbury Park, where a vehicle drove into pedestrians, many of whom are believed to be Muslims coming out of the local mosque after prayers. Police have arrested one person and ambulances are on the scene.

London's Metropolitan Police said in a statement that "there are a number of casualties being worked on at the scene" of the apparent attack, which took place at Seven Sisters Road.

A white van ploughed into people outside the Muslim Welfare House, close to the Finsbury Park Mosque. The suspected attacker has been described as a white male, and is seen being arrested in an eyewitness video. Police did not immediately disclose his identity, only revealing that he is 48 years old.

A witness of the attack told Ruptly's producer Jon Scammell that many of the people were "crushed ... while they were having their coffee." It coincided with the time of the night when Muslims are breaking their fast during the holy month of Ramadan.

Videos showing the aftermath of the incident emerged on social media, in which several people could be seen lying motionless on the ground.

Twitter user Didier, who says he was at the scene at the time the incident unfolded, posted a video showing the arrest of a suspected attacker by police. Didier wrote that he saw at least seven people injured as a result of the attack, including three of them seriously.

Before the police arrived at the scene, bystanders reportedly apprehended the alleged attacker and pinned him to the ground.

Some eyewitnesses report that the driver veered off the road into the crowd on purpose. The van "slowly and intentionally accelerated into a crowded cafe outside a mosque," LBC cited an eyewitness as saying.

Police have, however, denied unconfirmed reports cited by the Evening Standard that a man wielding a knife came out of the van after it mounted the pavement and stabbed at least one person.

Armed police arrived at the scene and inspected the van used in the attack. The scene has been cordoned off.

Mohammed Kozbar, the chairman of Finsbury Park mosque, located 300 meters from the cite of the attack, told RT he believes it was deliberate and should be treated as a terrorist attack.

"We have to condemn this incident regardless who is behind it and call it as it is - it is a terrorist attack on innocent people," Kozbar said, comparing it to the recent terrorist attacks in Manchester, Westminster and London Bridge.

He argued that while the attackers implicated in these attacks might harbour different kind of extremist views, they share one common aim which is to "divide our community, to spread hatred, division and racism among our community."

Agitated bystanders approached police cordons, demanding that they disclose the known details and identity of the attacker, RT's Ruptly agency's live video feed showed. Officers replied that they"won't release names," and continued to call it a"serious, major incident."

The London Fire Brigade reported that they are assisting the police and ambulance services in dealing with the incident.

Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn tweeted he was "totally shocked at the incident at Finsbury Park tonight," adding that his thoughts were "with those in the community affected by this awful event." Corbyn has been the MP for the Islington North constituency, which includes Finsbury Park Mosque, since 1983.

Corbyn attended the mosque on Wednesday, June 14, for an annual Iftar ceremony with other local community leaders, including Christian and Jewish religious leaders, peace campaigners and a representative of the Metropolitan police.

A similar statement by Prime Minister Theresa May also called the attack "a terrible incident."

"All my thoughts are with those who have been injured, their loved ones, and the emergency services on the scene," May said.

DETAILS TO FOLLOW

https://www.sott.net/article/354074-Potential-terrorist-attack-One-killed-and-10-injured-after-van-ploughs-into-pedestrians-near-Muslim-center-mosque-in-north-London
 
The police revealed the identity of the Finsbury park attacker:

https://www.rt.com/uk/393118-police-identify-finsbury-park-mosque-attacker/

Police identify Finsbury Park mosque suspect as 47yo Darren Osborne

Police have named the man suspected of using a van to attack worshipers at a London mosque as 47-year-old Darren Osborne, a father-of-four from Cardiff, Wales.

Osborne's neighbor, 52-year-old Dave Ashford, told the Guardian he was shocked to discover that Osborne was suspected of being behind the attack.

“Someone called me and said it was him and I said ‘It can’t be’. Then I saw the picture on the news and said, 'it’s him," he said.

“A 47-year-old man was arrested for attempted murder and taken to a south London police station where he remains in custody. He has further been arrested for the commission, preparation or instigation of terrorism including murder and attempted murder,” a statement from the Metropolitan police says.

The police statement does not mention Osborne by name.

Osborne's family is believed to be based in Weston-super-Mare, England.

One person died and 10 others were injured in the incident (...)


SocietyoftheSpectacle said:
Although the Driver of the Van was captured by an Angry Crowd , he received surprisingly few Kicks and punches. (...)

RT reported that the Imam of the Muslim Welfare Centre protected him from getting a few more:

https://www.rt.com/uk/392955-london-finsbury-park-van-attack/
Mohammed Mahmoud, who is Imam at the Muslim Welfare Centre, has described how he protected the attacker from an angry mob after he was pinned down at the scene of the terrorist attack.

Speaking to reporters, Mahmoud said he had just finished prayers when a “panicked” man ran in to say what was happening outside. He arrived at the scene just minutes after the attack and found the assailant on the ground, he said.

“[The attacker] had been restrained by three people. We found a group of people quickly started to collect around the assailant. And some tried to hit him, either kicks or punches.

“By God’s grace we managed to surround him and to protect him from any harm. We stopped all forms of attack and abuse towards him that were coming from every angle.

“A police van drove past so we flagged them down, we told them the situation. There’s a man, he’s restrained. He mowed down a group of people and there’s a mob attempting to hurt him.”

Mahmoud added: “[The attacker] seemed calmed. I just heard he said ‘I did my bit.’ It is a tragic and barbaric terrorist attack.”

He said his community is a “calm community, not known for their violence. Our mosques are incredibly peaceful. I can assure you we will do our utmost to calm down ill intentions.”


Anam Cara said:
Another potential terrorist attack in the UK. One man has been confirmed dead by police after a van drove into pedestrians near a mosque in Finsbury Park, North London, which is part of Jeremy Corbyn's Islington North constituency. (...)

https://www.sott.net/article/354074-Potential-terrorist-attack-One-killed-and-10-injured-after-van-ploughs-into-pedestrians-near-Muslim-center-mosque-in-north-London

It looks like Theresa May didn't get a warm welcome there today - unlike Corbyn:

https://www.rt.com/uk/392955-london-finsbury-park-van-attack/
13:49 GMT
Prime Minister Theresa May and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn experienced strikingly different receptions when they visited Finsbury earlier.

The Tory PM was heckled as she left the local mosque, where she had been visiting following last night’s attack.

One man was heard shouting “how come you were so quick today?” - an apparent reference to her failure to immediately visit victims of the Grenfell Tower fire.

Another man yelled: “Mrs May, have you got a personal taxi today?”

By contrast, Corbyn, who is the local MP, was greeted with cheers as he entered the mosque. (...)
 
It looks like Theresa May didn't get a warm welcome there today - unlike Corbyn:

Yes indeed. Being Corbyn's constituency is one factor, but fundamentally Theresa May made yet another glaring miscalculation in not meeting 'the people' in the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower disaster. People don't forget such decisions. Corbyn is very much a man of the people, whereas it is becoming increasing clear that May simply cannot relate to common folk.


Theresa 'weak and unstable' May now appears to be on notice from forces within her own party.

The Sunday Times reported that plans are afoot to hold May to a 10-day limit within which she must make progress.

If not met there are reportedly dozens of Tory MPs ready to write letters withdrawing confidence in their leader to the influential 1922 Committee of backbench MPs.

"She had better stop feeling sorry for herself, pull up her socks and start to lead — and if she can't do that she should go. Shape up or ship out," one minister told the Times.

https://www.sott.net/article/354159-Shape-up-or-ship-out-Its-make-or-break-week-for-PM-Theresa-May
 
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